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Arsenal Thread

Even when he was injured all of the time his ratio to goals per game was still great. there was that statistic that he was the most efficient striker in the world over the last couple of seasons? if that is correct? I hear a lot of people say it, but it might be like people saying there are 3 Women to every man in Nottingham, when actually it is not true and is really more like 50-50 :DD

I think he is amazing and definately world class, long may it continue. But if we don't win anything this year or don't come any where near, then he will want to leave and that is going to hit us big time.
 
I think i understand our differences now.
Modric is my favourite player for some years now, but imo he is not world class.
Robben: not world class.
Henry: yes .

World class players nowadays: Messi, Ronaldo, Xavi, Iniesta, Silva (but only recently), Rooney, Vidic, Schweinsteiger, Özil. Could be that i've forgotten 3 or 4 players, but not more.

Players that are near world class: Robben, Ribery, Muller, Nani, Aguero, Pirlo...to me Van Persie is among these players, just like Modric. But i think most people will agree that the players i call world class are better than Van Persie.

A world class player is a player that transcends his generation, that is still seen as a big players years after he stopped playing football.

IMO Arsenal has had 4 world class players: Jennings, Brady, Henry and Bergkamp (maybe i forgot some, but for example Viera although a fantastic player is not a player that transcends his own generation).

When i hear people speaking on evo-web about world class players, i have the distinct impression that 95% that are judged to be world class are not world class for me...don't forget that i watch 40 years of football.

Another illustration about what i call world class players, lets consider Dutch players and the players that transcend their own generation since 1970.

Cruijff, Rensenbrink, Van Basten, Gullit, Rijkaard and perhaps Bergkamp (i'm not so sure about Bergkamp compared to those other players however). Is Van Persie in the same league as those players? I don't think so.

PS: jonney, i have the distinct impression that you consider my assessment of Van Persie as a provocation...it isn't. It's only harmless banter and far from the universal truth..it's only my opinion. Forums like these are about people's opinion no matter how outrageous that opinion might be.

PPS: about Song, he is currently one of my favourite players...lately his passing game is outstanding although his defensive game is not rock solid.
 
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I`ll never forget that goal vs Charlton 4-4-2 RVP--Henry upfront he scored a volley ball went in the top corner and he ran to the top and celebrated the goal with fans... I drop my jaw in disbelief and said Bergkamp DNA has arrived !

I also remember Robin being left out and players saw him like a skinny kid , treated him more like a fan than a player...forgot who wrote the book I think it was Ashley can`t remember now...

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WORLD CLASS is a state of mind, when a player`s game rises...Messi is world class ,but Barca plays his strength. Messi is WC for Barca...RVP is WC for Arsenal especially due to the circumstances everyone leaving he stays and takes the responsibilities on his shoulders. Rooney WC for MUTD after Ronaldo leaving he stood up and took his game to a higher level. WC is the prodigal son that stayed home and didnt leave for his selfishness motivates can I get an AMEN?!?!
 
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That's a nice pic! Didn't know he was a childhood Arsenal fan.

Gerd, what you're describing isn't world-class. It's LEGENDARY. Players who transcend their generation and will go down in history are LEGENDS! That's why we have that word! It's the definition of it. The classic players you mentioned weren't just world-class, they were legends.

World class means the current best ones. And Modric and van Persie are both definitely world-class. Are they legendary? No. Unless something miraculous happens over the rest of their careers, they probably won't go down in history as ultimately legends like Cruijff, , Van Basten, Gullit, Rijkaard that you mentioned and be talked about in future generations, but they are DEFINITELY among the world's very finest in their own position at the time they're playing in which is this new era of football and year 2011. There aren't many better forwards currently in the world than Robin and there certainly aren't many better than Modric at what he does.

Anyway congrats to Arsene and Gunners world-wide. That was a BIG victory!
 
I wouldn't have known. Looks different and better as a kid. Like a young Zac Efron. :P

@gerd: off-topic, but do you really rate Ozil,Silva,and Vidic a level above Pirlo? And then put Pirlo on the same level as Nani and Muller? That's an insult. :P
 
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Gerd will always make someone angry w/ his opinion :SMUG: Bendtner is a good guess tbf not too many blonde at the Arsenal w/ a `04 kit gosh I hope I wasn`t offensive w/ that :)) although Carl Jenkinson was a gooner who used to buy tickets at the Emirates to watch Arsenal. Makes ya wonder if Wenger is looking more into fans nowadays :P
 
gerd said:
I think i understand our differences now.
Modric is my favourite player for some years now, but imo he is not world class.
Robben: not world class.
Henry: yes .

World class players nowadays: Messi, Ronaldo, Xavi, Iniesta, Silva (but only recently), Rooney, Vidic, Schweinsteiger, Özil. Could be that i've forgotten 3 or 4 players, but not more.

Players that are near world class: Robben, Ribery, Muller, Nani, Aguero, Pirlo...to me Van Persie is among these players, just like Modric. But i think most people will agree that the players i call world class are better than Van Persie.

A world class player is a player that transcends his generation, that is still seen as a big players years after he stopped playing football.

IMO Arsenal has had 4 world class players: Jennings, Brady, Henry and Bergkamp (maybe i forgot some, but for example Viera although a fantastic player is not a player that transcends his own generation).

When i hear people speaking on evo-web about world class players, i have the distinct impression that 95% that are judged to be world class are not world class for me...don't forget that i watch 40 years of football.

Another illustration about what i call world class players, lets consider Dutch players and the players that transcend their own generation since 1970.

Cruijff, Rensenbrink, Van Basten, Gullit, Rijkaard and perhaps Bergkamp (i'm not so sure about Bergkamp compared to those other players however). Is Van Persie in the same league as those players? I don't think so.

PS: jonney, i have the distinct impression that you consider my assessment of Van Persie as a provocation...it isn't. It's only harmless banter and far from the universal truth..it's only my opinion. Forums like these are about people's opinion no matter how outrageous that opinion might be.

PPS: about Song, he is currently one of my favourite players...lately his passing game is outstanding although his defensive game is not rock solid.
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hmm... ozil world class but pirlo is near? Gerd what happened to you? lol =p

We need to define World class in our discussion cause there gotta be something wrong. =p

Ozil is way to young and unexperienced to be World class,schweini altough very good, hes playing style and ability doesnt bring anything new to the game, I cant consider him world class. Rooney is NOT world class, altough he is a solid LEAGUE player.

Robben,van Persie,Sneijder are world class. A guy like Pirlo at his age is on hes way to become legendary...but gerd opinion, he is yet to be world class...

to be on topic Van persie as that magic of a world class player, hes definatly thats fifth Arsenal world class player.
 
YoungGun_UK said:
I'm surprised it's such a debate, his current form I'd presume would just confirm it, I think he's had it in him for years just never had the chance to show it consistently.

From 08'
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im surpised too mate. think gerd is the only one that thinks rvp is not world class. their always one. there i probably one peron who also thinks messi is not world class too
 
This seems very important to you jonney. Why?
It's only an opinion of one person who isn't exactly Mourinho, Ferguson (thank god), Wenger or Cruijff.
Anyway let's stop this nonsense.
Now you act as if i think Van Persie is a bad player. I've never said that...he's extremely good at the moment.
 
gerd said:
This seems very important to you jonney. Why?
It's only an opinion of one person who isn't exactly Mourinho, Ferguson (thank god), Wenger or Cruijff.
Anyway let's stop this nonsense.
Now you act as if i think Van Persie is a bad player. I've never said that...he's extremely good at the moment.
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Your just about the only person i know who thinks RVP is not world class and all i said was there is probably a person who also thinks Messi is not world class.

your entitled to your opinion. But your opinion is a rare one.

Its "nonsense" IMO to say RVP is not a world class player and like others, have given reasons why it is nonsense with not just our feelings/opinions of a player but with stats/facts to back it up as well.

tbh i dont think anything that RVP does, be it score 30+ goals by end of season or lifting a trophy with arsenal will convince you that he is world class :( Again up to you mate.

the guys been injury free for nearly a year now and has banged in 30+ goals. think he has proven what he can do when fit.
 
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To be honest, who really gives a shit who is world class or not?
The word gets attributed to way too many people nowadays anyway.

x or y is a cracking player is good enough for me.

Even pundits go overboard in their assessment of half the stuff that happens. Everything is wonderful and amazing to them. Too many nicey nicey pundits about for my liking. We need pundits saying x and y is shit. That's what I want to hear more of! :)
 
Well to me a world class player has that litle bit of extra, a player who can create something out of nothing (remember Bergkamp against Newcastle and Argentina). That is what Van Persie lacks IMO (unless i have missed something).

A world class player is also a player who can surpass himself against the biggest teams. Then i always ahve to think about last year's match against Barcelona, when he was sent off...he let his team down then (and yes i'm probably the only one who thinks the red card was justified, but even if it wasn't when he got the card his mind was not on playing football...he was only moaning and protesting...compare that with Messi who never moans...).

Van Persie also played a world cup final, he was pretty average in that match and in the whole of the tournament IMO.

But i guess i'm reopening this somewhat pointless discussion..it's all subjective.
It is a fact that Van Persie is right now in a state of grace and is probably among the best forwards of the world. I also have nothing against him...i can't stand Ronaldo, but i have to admit that he's world class.
Oh and call me chauvinistic, but i think Vermaelen is in the same league as Van Persie (as a defender of course).


PS: i'm sorry that this discussion is dominating this thread, this was never my intention.
 
gerd said:
A world class player is also a player who can surpass himself against the biggest teams. Then i always ahve to think about last year's match against Barcelona, when he was sent off...he let his team down then (and yes i'm probably the only one who thinks the red card was justified, but even if it wasn't when he got the card his mind was not on playing football...he was only moaning and protesting...compare that with Messi who never moans...).

Van Persie also played a world cup final, he was pretty average in that match and in the whole of the tournament IMO.
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Yeah stupid RVP didnt hear the whistle!! :RANT:

Dont forget that Messi havent done anything for Argentina in WC too!!!:YAWN:
 
girts1204 said:
Dont forget that Messi havent done anything for Argentina in WC too!!!:YAWN:
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He didn't?

In Messi's case, because he's such a world class player, actually the best currently, if he gives any less than 100%/the amazingness he got us used to, then we consider him as "done nothing". Even if he end the game with an assist or 2.

I believe he did well in the WC, but the team as a whole wasn't very good. Just my opinion.
 
I love the thought that Messi doesn't moan, I have seen him quite a bit moaning and I don't watch him that often. Being in a team that wins all of the time leads alot of players to not moan alot, I will like to see Barcelona in a spell where they don't win and see how their players react.

Also on the Van Persie sending off, I can remember seeing at least 3 other times since then people kicking the ball after the whistle and not so much as a murmer from the Ref, the opposition side, the pundits etc exactly the way it should be (Unless the player just smashes the ball into the crowd on purpose). It is not even mentioned at all, it was a ridiculous decision and everybody to do with Arsenal had every right to moan about it.

Also he deserved first yellow card but so did the Barcelona player for strangling one of our players but didn't even get a yellow, so again if you are passionate and see the ref not doing his job properly, then you react.

But as he is now captain, he does have to calm down and do what is best for the team, I think he has done a good job so far, but lets see how he is when the chips are down.

I remember Gallas being a great captain until we lost and then he was the shittest captain ever.

anyway it is bringing up old ground that doesn't need to be discussed again, and PU6HY is right it doesn't matter what label a player has 'World Class' or not, I am just happy that he is playing like he is and also the team aswell :DD
 
The whole Holland team diddnt do sweet F.A in the world cup final either against spain. Hollands tactics was to just kick the shit out of Spain not play football.

WTF is RVP suppose to do upfront on his geting no service at all and being instructed to just kick xavi and co with any opportunity you get?

Gerd you seriously need to watch RVP. he has time and time again scored important goals at big games and he has scores goals he has created on his own. he is by no means a ruud van nestelroy i.e a poacher who will score any chance thats "laid on a plate" RVP before this run use to mainly score goals he himself done "most" of the work.

Its just recently he has learned how to score the simple headers and tap ins by now getting into the right place at the right time .

watch this and tell me he dont score wonder goals YouTube - Robin Van Persie Best Goals 2011 first goal i believe was against man united mate

o and diddnt he score against the mghty barcelona last year in a big game? GERD are you sure your not confusing RVP with chamack or someone else? You say he doesnt make stuff happen on his own and you say that he hadly scores/makes a big impact in big games?

Its bizare that you say these things. i would like to know ow you came to the conclusion that RVP doesnt shine in big games or makes goals himself.

good free kick taker too as well

YouTube - Van Persie crazy free kick

So in a nutshell, RVP has scored many important goals for various games and although some of toe games we did not win(diddnt he also score in the carling cup final last year?) he cannot be held responsible for the teams shit defending .

RVP has time and time again got us an equalizer or a goal lead in games that really matter only to have our defence make all the hardwork worth nothing (carling cup final) so maybe THATS why you gerd feel he is not world class because his goals has hardly brought trophies.

Judge him has a striker and what he does for his given role, not based on the final result of what team accomplished because there are 10 other players on field and all it takes is one mistake to undo another players hard work
 
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Lots of great goals, but not a single that is even vaguely as outstanding as Berkamp's goals against Newcastle and Argentina...
Not a single goal that will be talked about in 20 years or in 40 years like Madjer's or Carlos Alberto's famous goals in a ECI final or a WC final.

Jonney, i like you. I like most people in this thread.
I'm Spurs fan fond of Arsenal (the only one?)...just lets agree to disagree.
 
gerd said:
Lots of great goals, but not a single that is even vaguely as outstanding as Berkamp's goals against Newcastle and Argentina...
Not a single goal that will be talked about in 20 years or in 40 years like Madjer's or Carlos Alberto's famous goals in a ECI final or a WC final.

Jonney, i like you. I like most people in this thread.
I'm Spurs fan fond of Arsenal (the only one?)...just lets agree to disagree.
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Ok then, what goals have Ronaldo, rooney and possibly messi(probably has scored a goal like dennis) scored that is of equal quality Berkamp's?

imo not many players can score like Berkamp. i doubt many can name 10 strikers who has scored memorable goals like Berkamp. :(

does a world class player have to score goals like that? i think gerd your definition of world class = legend status.

IMO only and i mean ONLY messi is legend/world clas status since Zidane and Henry.

People still remember Henry and zidane. but do people remember nestrelroy :)
 
Rooney: that overhead kick against Man City.
But that is not the point...maybe i'm confounding world class with legendary.

Let's end this. The fact that i seem the only one that does not think RVP is world class is also and indication that i'm probably wrong.
 
gerd said:
Rooney: that overhead kick against Man City.
But that is not the point...maybe i'm confounding world class with legendary.

Let's end this. The fact that i seem the only one that does not think RVP is world class is also and indication that i'm probably wrong.
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In all fairness, the first goal in the vid Jonny posted is a beaut... and Rooney miskicked his overhead kick :)

Anyway, as I said, world class gets associated with way too many people nowadays.

Does it really matter anyway JM? Who cares what anybody else thinks. If you think he is, then good for you.

I think he's quality. Hope he leaves Arsenal and signs for Liverpool.
 
gerd said:
Rooney: that overhead kick against Man City.
But that is not the point...maybe i'm confounding world class with legendary.

Let's end this. The fact that i seem the only one that does not think RVP is world class is also and indication that i'm probably wrong.
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Don't let them get to you man! Don't let them take you down! Stay strong!

self_confidence.jpg


On a serious note though, I have the same opinion as yours. So it's just a matter of opinion. Nothing to do with being wrong or right.
 
funny pic Lami lol....I don`t like Robin physique too thin, shape like a bird. His hair style is of an old man. I`m not impress by his off the pitch family man life style.


I rather a solid physique cool hair style a few tats ...get in a brawl in pubs at 4am. Bad boy imagine might give him that edge. ATM he looks like Gomer Piles son.

Anyhow I got into a brawl with 3 old ladies this morning. Black Friday brings out the worst in ppl so much for Happy Thanksgiving.:PIRATE:
 
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