Arsenal Thread

PLF said:
Sounds to me like you don't take the whole 'leadership' thing seriously enough Bobby. But you're more than welcomed to your opinion of course and I respect that. I just don't agree. I think what I said above about the whole 'lack of leaders' is a far BIGGER deal than you think of it and no I don't thing likes of Song can do it. Vermaelen I have more faith in and yes he was captain at Ajax but even then, he's not a natural captain for me.

Arsenal badly needs a van Bommel, a Vieira, that type of player and to be honest MORE than one. They need one of that 'type' in each line, instead you're left with likes of van Persie and Cesc and Almunia and Nasri as leaders of the team which is to be honest a joke! These guys would never get the armband in any other team! They're top players, but certainly not captain material.
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I take it seriously, but I just think Fabregas is a good leader and some others on the team.

From your posts it sounds like you are refering to more of an aggressive player, who will go in hard. Which I do not agree necesarilly agree makes a good leader all round. But I do agree we need a player like that again.

I'm just of the opinion that Fab is a great leader/captain and players like Vermaelen, Song and Van Persie can also spur a team forward and encourage the players to dig deep in tough situations. Just because Van Persie lost it in the Barca game, doesn't write him off for ever as a crap leader?

Anyway, The last two weeks were probably my lowest supporting Arsenal for a good long while, so hopefully things can only get better :DD
 
Back in the days when you weren't a shit rip-off of Barcelona, you actually had proper leaders though. Players who were fully capable of playing dirty when the situation necessitated it. Proper cunts.

Wilshere looks like the only one who's capable of having that mental strength that the class of 2001-04 had. Maybe Vermaelen at a stretch. Song? :LOL:
 
BobbyBox said:
Just because Van Persie lost it in the Barca game, doesn't write him off for ever as a crap leader?
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Honestly I cannot agree that he lost his head against Barca. He was a victim of play acting by that cunt Alves, of an attempt of intimidation by that prick Abidal and an outrageous sending off by a bastard who some consider to be a referee.

As for Fabregas, he's not a complete leader, but still he's way better than Gallas, who fits more into this "sheriff" mould suggested by PLF.

I like to draw a parallel using two critical situations: the injuries to Eduardo and Ramsey.
That day against Birmingham when Eduardo got his leg broken, we all remember well how negative Gallas was, especially at the end sitting there sulking.
When Ramsey was injured, Fabregas didn't let the team down, in which I think was his best display as captain so far. He commanded the team to a 3-1 victory, scoring a crucial penalty with a lot of pressure on, made an assist to Vermaelen for the 3rd and told Tony Penis to shut his fucking pie hole when he was complaining about a tackle he made.
 
Nah for me Gallas is a horrible captain! Especially for Arsenal. A club he'd just moved to from a rival club and instantly got captaincy, that really pissed me off and I could never understand Wenger for it! Because not only is he not captain material but just a selfish egomaniac dirty player (Yes albeit a very experienced one) but he just walked in the dressing room and took that captaincy ahead of players who'd been there sweating for the club and putting their bodies on the line for years.

I was always against that appointment and glad to see it backfire.

For me, it's not 'aggression' or 'dirtiness' that makes a player a captain. HEll no. There's plenty of those players around, very few of them deserve to be captain. IT's the overall package.

1. Experience
2. Influence MOST importantly by some distance!
3. Teamwork
4. Work-rate and how involved you are in the game (which is why a lot of times I don't think it's a good idea to have goalkeepers as captains even if most qualified simply because for large parts of the game, they are not involved and far from team-mates)
5. Club connections (What's the bond like with club? How many years, etc.)
6. Determination
7. Ambition (Will to win and be #1 because that will rub off on others and lift everybody's performance)

So for me guys like Terry and Ballack and Vidic are good captains. And guys like Gallas and Fabregas aren't but for different reasons.

Cesc has the teamwork stuff and has the great connection with club, but how much influence really? Is he the type of guy who exudes leadership and natural authority? I wouldn't say so.

Vieira and van Bommel aren't great captains because they are 'dirty' or 'aggressive' (that's not a requirement) but because they really are natural born leaders. They are so influential and everybody listens to them and they have the right drive, determination and vocal.

@Bobby, I'm not writing off van Persie because of Barca game. He's just never been a captain for me. The guy used to have bad attitude as a youngster in Feyenoord which is a long time ago now and he has improved a lot but he's still fairly 'individualistic'. For me he's a top player and one who is always motivated and confident himself. But can he lift up others? Does he have the words, the way, the influence? I don't really see it. He's average at it. Definitely better than likes of Song or Djorou who are even quite shy.
 
Gallas was shit and I totally agree that was one of Wengers worst decisions ever. Wenger totally dismissed Gilberto when he did that. It made it even more stupid because Gilberto was doing well as captain. I'm not saying gilberto was a fantastic captain, but players responded to him and he had alot of great attributes and was well respected.

The numbered list you give PLF I can associate Fab with pretty much all of them, thats just me though.

The others I was talking about 'leadership' role as in supporting Fab. Van Persie wouldn't necessarily be a great captain, but I think he can be won of the leaders and can lift players. Vermaelen I can imagine being captain if Fab leaves and I think he will do a good job.

Don't get me wrong I would love another Vieira :DD but I don't think it will happen.
 
Just a little table for people. I think Vermaelen, Fabregas and Van Persie are our spine of the team. These are our losses this season and who was in the team out of them 3.

.................Vermaelen..........Van Persie...........Fab.......

League WBA.........x.................x....................x........
League Chelsea.....x.................x....................x........
Champs Shakhtar....x.................x....................x........
League Newcastle...x.................y (sub back from inj)y........
League Spurs.......x.................y (Sub back from inj)y........
Champs Braga.......x.................x....................y........
League Man U.......x.................y.(on at 62 mins)....Y.(on at 62mins)
Lge Cup Birm.......x.................y (injured 68th).....x........
Champ Barca.......x.................y....................y.(wasn't fit)
Fa Cup Man U.......x.................y....................x........

Dont know if it proves much :PP but I was bored :DD

The 3 arguably most important games of the season, Birm league cup, Barca Away, and Man U Fa Cup. Fab was injured in the first and the last and should never have played against barca because of injury.

Van Persie was but also coming back from the injury he suffered from the Birmingham game.

But I think the results above show how much influence Fab does have on the team and why I think that he is a great leader/captain. A few of the losses aswell were when he was not fully fit aswell.

I know Man U have had big injuries this season notably Ferdinand. But take the spine out of any team, not just big teams and see what happens?

I know arguments can be said about Van persie being injury prone so we should have better quality to counter act that, but at the end of the day he is our best striker and is world class.

I know people say Vermaelen isn't as great a defender as people make out, but he is still our best defender.

Also just wanted to point out Song wasn't available for the Barca and Man United games. He is a big player for us, especially when talking about strength in midfield. Also the argument there that we should have backup for him by now, which is also true.

I know it looks like I am trying to make excuses, but I just think some things get overlooked and it is easy to jump on the bandwagon.

When we have our proper team out there we would not have many problems, we just need players that can come in and do a job when the first team are not there. This is our HUGE problem and needs to be addressed.

With Vermaelen, Fab and Van Persie all playing in the team, then I think we have adequate leaders on the pitch, but unfortunately this is a sight rarely seen.
 
Some memories came back to me and i went to youtube to look for a player. He had a 14 on his shirt and a O2 as a sponsor. Do remember him? :P
 
BobbyBox said:
Just a little table for people. I think Vermaelen, Fabregas and Van Persie are our spine of the team. These are our losses this season and who was in the team out of them 3.

.................Vermaelen..........Van Persie...........Fab.......

League WBA.........x.................x....................x........
League Chelsea.....x.................x....................x........
Champs Shakhtar....x.................x....................x........
League Newcastle...x.................y (sub back from inj)y........
League Spurs.......x.................y (Sub back from inj)y........
Champs Braga.......x.................x....................y........
League Man U.......x.................y.(on at 62 mins)....Y.(on at 62mins)
Lge Cup Birm.......x.................y (injured 68th).....x........
Champ Barca.......x.................y....................y.(wasn't fit)
Fa Cup Man U.......x.................y....................x........

Dont know if it proves much :PP but I was bored :DD

The 3 arguably most important games of the season, Birm league cup, Barca Away, and Man U Fa Cup. Fab was injured in the first and the last and should never have played against barca because of injury.

Van Persie was but also coming back from the injury he suffered from the Birmingham game.

But I think the results above show how much influence Fab does have on the team and why I think that he is a great leader/captain. A few of the losses aswell were when he was not fully fit aswell.

I know Man U have had big injuries this season notably Ferdinand. But take the spine out of any team, not just big teams and see what happens?

I know arguments can be said about Van persie being injury prone so we should have better quality to counter act that, but at the end of the day he is our best striker and is world class.

I know people say Vermaelen isn't as great a defender as people make out, but he is still our best defender.

Also just wanted to point out Song wasn't available for the Barca and Man United games. He is a big player for us, especially when talking about strength in midfield. Also the argument there that we should have backup for him by now, which is also true.

I know it looks like I am trying to make excuses, but I just think some things get overlooked and it is easy to jump on the bandwagon.

When we have our proper team out there we would not have many problems, we just need players that can come in and do a job when the first team are not there. This is our HUGE problem and needs to be addressed.

With Vermaelen, Fab and Van Persie all playing in the team, then I think we have adequate leaders on the pitch, but unfortunately this is a sight rarely seen.
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While that's true - the argument falls a little flat when you look at the other teams playing you.

United in the FA Cup faced you without Rio, Vidic, Fletcher and Anderson (not to mention Hargreaves), played 2 full backs as midfielders, had a midfield of John O'Shea and Darren Gibson and had O'Shea as captain.

It's not like other teams waltz through the season without injuries.

This weekend I honestly believe United's situation is worse than yours. Jonny Evans and Chris Smalling against Davies, Elmander and Sturridge? Ulp.
 
Neoexodus said:
Some memories came back to me and i went to youtube to look for a player. He had a 14 on his shirt and a O2 as a sponsor. Do remember him? :P
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where misisng a world class injury free striker in our team that can constantly bang in 20+ premiership goals per season.

i do miss Henry and wished me stuck with us and retired here at arsenal. he knows himself he made a massive mistake joining barcelona. he said himself he wished he stayed at arsenal. if we was with us today he will probably be a part time player who will come off the bench now and again but the most important thing he would have done is behind the scenes teaching walcott and others how to show more determination and grit in their game which Henry had as well.

Having a legend behind the scenes could make a massive difference and with Lehnman now with us, he could do great behind the scenes for us. He may be a looney sometimes but he has more balls, grit and hunger then most of our current players
 
I'm not so sure about what you say Younggun.
Henry left Arsenal because he wanted to win the CL.
He has won it with Barcelona. It's only when you achieve something that you know what i really means to you (in most cases it means less to you once you have achieved then when you hoped to achieve it). Maybe in retrospect winning the CL did in no way compensate the loss he feld for leaving Arsenal.
I know that i'm the first to point out that you can't ask too much loyalty from professional players. But this may be different for older players...Henry made his name and fame with Arsenal. He knows damn well that he was an iconic player for them...i guess leaving Arsenal in retrospect might have hurt him more than he would have thought.
Besides that Henry had only one reasonably good season with Barcelona, in the second season with the emergence of Pedro he was a lot on the bench...
 
He was top-scorer in his first season, won the treble in his second and declined steeply in his third and final.
 
the man says he regrets leaving arsenal. then to say he didn't... what the..?! you have to be his subconscious.
gerd, explained it very well. like many times round.
i might be stirring things, but IMO! Henry was way better than Eto'o will ever be.
 
skin_fetch


nuff said !
 
beachryan said:
While that's true - the argument falls a little flat when you look at the other teams playing you.

United in the FA Cup faced you without Rio, Vidic, Fletcher and Anderson (not to mention Hargreaves), played 2 full backs as midfielders, had a midfield of John O'Shea and Darren Gibson and had O'Shea as captain.

It's not like other teams waltz through the season without injuries.

This weekend I honestly believe United's situation is worse than yours. Jonny Evans and Chris Smalling against Davies, Elmander and Sturridge? Ulp.
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You say when you look at the other teams playing us? but you mention united, which I did mention having a tough time this season?

Anyway it doesn't matter. It wasn't a conculsive argument. It was just to show that we haven't had our best team out for most of the season and particularly when we lost.

Henry I don't think regretted leaving Arsenal, he won things with Barca, especially the Champs league and played for one of the biggest teams in the world.

I think he loves Arsenal and wants to be part of us in the future, but I doubt he regretted leaving much.
 
somehow i'm not confident at all regarding today's match. eastmond would do better in the holding position. it's an away match that will be harder than the players expect, and might require work that some of our midfielders can't be bothered to do.
C. Vela might do a Wilshere and come up really good next season, seeing his had the same kind of treatment from AW (alot of sub play one year, one year of loan to an EPL team, then he comes back with more experience and a different perspective). if you think of it maybe Jack's biggest gain last year was the attitude towards games that EPL teams have, an attitude that's totally missing over here.
 
Today will be really tough, we have half a team missing and they beat us at our place aswell earlier in the season aswell. Just hope we can pull out a win, especially after the last two weeks.
 
This team is MESSED UP I CANT ***** BELIEVE IT!


what a shame we've put on ourselves...theres a freaking title race and we play with no heart at all....BLAME SQUALLICI for the mistake BIG TIME

Thanks to Arshavin we got a point of this but this team has lost his soul , Squallicci is an AWFUL defender, way past his prime, he cant handle the premier league at all...luckily the ref didnt call a penaltly when he got fortune in the box.

When I analyze the situation, we played better with a 4-4-2 the team look way to static this year our free flowing football is nowhere near where it was 2 year ago. We seem to be finding the goal only when we counter.
 
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our free flowing football wasn't there because we had half our first team out probably? It was always going to be tough today, just glad we managed to get a point in the end.

hopefully over the next couple of weeks with no league footy, some of our injuries can get better and we can push on for the rest of the season.

Although now Man United need to slip up twice now for us to get ahead of them, but it is possible before the end of the season as they are still in the FA Cup and Champs league and they look like they might have a defender crisis for the next few games?

Still in the fight, but just about.
 
pathetic arsenal pathetic wenger. im preying he gets the sack this season. i have had enough of is bullshit.

fuck that old twat. dont care about the past. his done fuck all for 5 years. time to piss off wenger before you make our club an even bigger joke
 
i didn't want to believe it, but clichy is awful. he looks like he doesn't think at all. look at sagna way more intelligent atacking and defending.
Wenger should have learned his lesson last season. these are not new problems that keep killing us. i know he tried to buy and he did, but Squilacci who should have been our experienced strong asset isn't even a decent sub. and almunia should get kicked out.
while attacking-wise we've been good allround, the defence and the keeper are appalling. i know we attack alot and we're left with only a few men at the back, but for christ's sake we tend to make it harder by ourselfs every time when the grudge is on.
it's this feeling that we can't get the goal, we can't defend good, and can't keep our heads together when it really matters that makes me say and think we don't have what it takes to win it and we're still kids. (again, regardless of the age, jack's a man, while almunia...)
 
we can't get a better manager. it would be a real big loss for us.
the thing is with the team we have, he says we're going for the title when it's clear we can't. it's over the heads of many of our players and our team as a whole at the moment. if you look at it without this ideal in mind you can realize we're doing very well taking the many circumstances into account.
he should, like he should have last season, get rid of almunia, diaby, denilson, rosicky, now squilacci, even clichy, and get 1 good keeper, one good defender and one good defensive midfielder.

back the square fucking one. again.
 
We had our third choice keeper, 3rd and 4th choice central defenders, or at least our 4th choice central defensive partnership. No Song who adds the defensive side of the midfield (Usually if he isn't bombing up the pitch ;)) )

I am frustrated but to say our team has no fight, when we have 5 players that our out of our first team injured is a bit strong. Coming back from 2-0 down (even though we shouldn't be getting in that position :ROLL: )

As I said hopefully after the international break we will have more first teamers out there and then if they play shit, then I will slag them off as much as anybody.

Yeah Wenger is shit we should be beating these teams away from home 0-5 with half a first team because we are Arsenal and we should be doing the triple every year :ROLL:
 
Yet united managed to win with a lot of injuries they have too. sorry bobby but if you want to win the title you got to beat these sides.

whos fault is it that wenger signed denilson, diaby etc as our backup?
 
well, i am the one who's saying we're over our heads wanting the title taking into account the circumstances. so i don't think we should win just because we're the arsenal.
this was a predictable hard game. and yes, our come-back was the proof once again that when the team really tries it can get points even in the last quarter of the game.
but, the defence is awful. and almunia was our 1st choice for years, until fabianski and sczesny proved to be at least more reliable. yeah, i'd wanted more determination and no messing about from our defence and from the players who fill in the gaps left by injuries.
AW is not shit, but should try to put chamakh in more even risking a 4-4-2. but i'm just an "opinion thrower" :)
 
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