PES 2019 Discussion Thread (PS4, XB1)

[Chris Davies]

Game speed gentleman?
I'm on -2
It's pretty much as 0 on 18/19 ish

2017: -1
2018: -1
2019 PRE-DP4: 0
2019 POST-DP4: -1

I try not to alter them but I always have to in the end.

Note to others, I installed PES 2017 and an amazing patch on PC - fully licenses all the leagues etc. and it runs perfectly at 60fps on my absolutely garbage old machine. I was amazed.

BUT contrary to articles I could find, I found the gameplay was slightly different between PC and PS4 - the PS4 seemed to have better response times. Far less often I'll have strikers just "space out" and not respond to my input. The speed also seems very slightly slower on PS4.

 

[rockstrongo]

-2 here. At first I thought it was slow and slugish, but I´m on SS so I need some time for thinking my next move and -2 helps me on that. After a while, I guess it feels natural.

I always played it on -1,but returning from 18/19 it felt ultra fast.
Might try SS as well haven't done it since it came out,on TP PA0

 

[rockstrongo]

2017: -1
2018: -1
2019 PRE-DP4: 0
2019 POST-DP4: -1

I try not to alter them but I always have to in the end.

Note to others, I installed PES 2017 and an amazing patch on PC - fully licenses all the leagues etc. and it runs perfectly at 60fps on my absolutely garbage old machine. I was amazed.

BUT contrary to articles I could find, I found the gameplay was slightly different between PC and PS4 - the PS4 seemed to have better response times. Far less often I'll have strikers just "space out" and not respond to my input. The speed also seems very slightly slower on PS4.

I actually played 17 on 0 for a while since animations felt strange in -1/-2.
But -2 is what I'm on now, especially when playing FIFA too.
But out of my 15+ seasons on 17 90% have been on minus 1

 

[Emroth]

I am aware the hype train will will collide hard with reality now, but you better get some picture about this "gem of soccer gaming" before you waste your time:

The way I see it, Phil - every game has some exploits, that you can use.

On 18 all you had to do it to send overpowered through balls to your strikers.

On 19 you can walk into penalty box as defense just backs up.

But who plays like that?
If you just want to play a game as normal and have a good base, with physicality, fouls and nice shots, then why would you ruin the experience by playing like this?

 

[Chris Davies]

I actually played 17 on 0 for a while since animations felt strange in -1/-2.
But -2 is what I'm on now, especially when playing FIFA too.
But out of my 15+ seasons on 17 90% have been on minus 1

The problem I have is that with FIFA, turning on "slow speed" and reducing sprint speed and pass speed has a real gameplay effect (even if it's not enough of an effect). It changes how the logic works makes the AI's passing play look and feel more realistic, such as forcing them to hit really badly-hit slow passes on occasion that you can intercept, or them trying to ping-pong but not having enough sprint speed to get people up the pitch to make it effective.

With PES, using slow difficulty, you're playing the exact same game, it's just running slower. All the AI's passes are still perfect (and perfectly struck) and when the first-time ping-pong stuff kicks in, it looks silly. But 2017 has the least amount of it in my experience (I see it in the UEFA competitions, but it's kind of acceptable to me that it would happen there - City can do it, fucking Fulham can't, and that's why I've really grown to despise PES 2019).

So I don't really want to slow it down, but I have to - so that I have enough time to consider what I'm going to do next - even if slowing it down means my player might not have enough time to respond (my brain is the bigger problem)...

 

[Schwarzenbeck]

The catch-up bug has been present in PES since PES 2014 or even before that. On and off. But I can't remember a PES where it wasn't there ever since 2014.

See: https://www.evo-web.co.uk/search/432249/?page=10&q=catchup&o=date&c[node]=11

It was discussed even in PES 2012.

Like @slamsoze said, it has been in the game forever and discussed just as long – from my personal experience going back all the way to the PS1 era games.

Always annoyed me, but for some reason, like @rockstrongo, I am not having such an issue with it in 19. I have the feeling that, like a lot of other things in the game, it‘s dependent on stats, traits, form, and game situations (iow, it is ‚scripted‘).

For example, I‘ve noticed it is easier to go around or outrun the AI when you are behind in the score. It‘s the game‘s crude interpretation of momentum, like saying: ok, now that I scored, it‘s your time..

And it could be dependent on player traits. I can consistently go down the left flank with Luke Shaw, run past the AI and whip the cross in. I don‘t think he is a particularly fast player (not like, say, Rashford). Same with Odriozola on the other side. Think that they all have ‚pinpoint crossing‘ traits or ‚roaming flank‘ style or something like that and this, in combination with their speed and accel values makes them succeed more often (though not always).

Lastly, you need to get the timing right. What often works for me is to let go of all buttons and hold the left stick to a slow jog then find the moment when the AI player makes a move and then double-tap R1 to go by. It doesn't always work but often enough.

 

[rockstrongo]

The way I see it, Phil - every game has some exploits, that you can use.

On 18 all you had to do it to send overpowered through balls to your strikers.

On 19 you can walk into penalty box as defense just backs up.

But who plays like that?
If you just want to play a game as normal and have a good base, with physicality, fouls and nice shots, then why would you ruin the experience by playing like this?

And is that the demo/Patch 1-2-3-4?
I can probably post some insane stuff from 19

 

[philla]

then why would you ruin the experience by playing like this?

Because PES2017 and its silly AI is begging on the knees to do so.

 

[Chris Davies]

But who plays like that?
If you just want to play a game as normal and have a good base, with physicality, fouls and nice shots, then why would you ruin the experience by playing like this?

I didn't enjoy PES 2018 because wingers never closed me down, it was bizarre:



But it was still a challenge - and you're enjoying it right now - and as you say, no game is perfect. Especially not a PES...

 

[rockstrongo]

Lastly, you need to get the timing right. What often works for me is to let go of all buttons and hold the left stick to a slow jog then find the moment when the AI player makes a move and then double-tap R1 to go by.

Agree,I published this one before,SS PAO.
And I can break away quite easily if the game aren't on s shitty script run,which it wasn't here.
Miss the good (pre patch 4) Pes 19

 

[rockstrongo]

The problem I have is that with FIFA, turning on "slow speed" and reducing sprint speed and pass speed has a real gameplay effect (even if it's not enough of an effect). It changes how the logic works makes the AI's passing play look and feel more realistic, such as forcing them to hit really badly-hit slow passes on occasion that you can intercept, or them trying to ping-pong but not having enough sprint speed to get people up the pitch to make it effective.

With PES, using slow difficulty, you're playing the exact same game, it's just running slower. All the AI's passes are still perfect (and perfectly struck) and when the first-time ping-pong stuff kicks in, it looks silly. But 2017 has the least amount of it in my experience (I see it in the UEFA competitions, but it's kind of acceptable to me that it would happen there - City can do it, fucking Fulham can't, and that's why I've really grown to despise PES 2019).

So I don't really want to slow it down, but I have to - so that I have enough time to consider what I'm going to do next - even if slowing it down means my player might not have enough time to respond (my brain is the bigger problem)...

True!
I see less negative effects when slowing Pes 17 down then when slowing Pes 19 down.
One thing I've noticed (off topic) is that though I play a slow fifa (tweaked Krebstar) my players are rather sluggish but the CPU due to me playing Ultimate difficulty aren't!
Which makes that game very good for me,snappy AI players without being pingy (ish).
I haven't really have that balance before.

 

[chickenhawk]

PES2019 Latest.
Have not posted for a while but been reading the posts.
At the end of my Parma ML season 2 the game was quite good, i had about 5 matches where everything seemed balanced and normal , even my game vs the Old Boys was good, had a couple of hard fought 0-1 defeats a 2-0 win and 2-2 draw.
Now having started season 3 im about to chuck it altogether and play Fallout 4.
Had a couple of dodgy 2-3 defeats that after leading both games that were sickening but i put behind me . Next Coppa Italia v Chievo. I was 2-0 up away from home and cruising until they scored in 87th minute. Oh well 2-1 is still good away from home. Kick off pass back thinking just keep possesion pass sideways to midfielder easy pass= Intercepted by chievo, run through cross to middle smash into top corner 2-2 89th minute. Kick off run into opponents half head to corner flag in 92nd minute thinking thats it so punt ball out for Goal kick. Chievo kick out up pitch win header , make pass straight though to forward unmarked smash top corner 2-3 94th minute End.
If that wasnt bad enough i lost 3-4 next match last minute then won 6-3 where i couldnt do anything against there 3 goals.
Dont like to use the word Scripted but exactly what it was. Guys on here saying they fight with controller for control of players , what is worse i think is the way the game selects the wrong player for you before you can change back by which time the forward is in space to shoot. Also the poor positioning of defenders who stray out of position and dont mark closely or follow runners, who become unresponive in your box and wont intercept anything whe the AI makes it Overpowered Attacks.
So annoying and dissapointing as it can play a great game when things are balanced and fair, great graphics, physicality, fouls etc.(but complete lack of penaltys) But you always hit a Scripting period where it destroys you. Why cant TS be implemented properly and make teams fight harder in tackles, marking,stamina etc rather than turn Bologna into Barcelona for 45mins.
Im going to try a Scottish Master league with Rangers and stick the AI up tp Top Player. My thinking is that it wont be as bad cheating wise and wont have tottally insane finishing as most SPL teams I would think have players rated in the 60s rather than the 70s 80s players in Seria A.

 

[rockstrongo]

@chickenhawk I think @Emroth did just that.
Going with a Scottish ML.
I packed my Atalanta/Milan ML in after 2 seasons.
Same reason,but after going back to both 17 and 18 I realised I could probably kept going longer if it had D2's.
Playing Serie A without them feels so shallow.
Had two good seasons though,hope they sort it out like they did 18

 

[Madmac79]

The way I see it, Phil - every game has some exploits, that you can use.

On 18 all you had to do it to send overpowered through balls to your strikers.

On 19 you can walk into penalty box as defense just backs up.

But who plays like that?
If you just want to play a game as normal and have a good base, with physicality, fouls and nice shots, then why would you ruin the experience by playing like this?

Amen to that. Every game is exploitable to some degree, and most of all every recent game could be described (read: demolished) with an harsh ironic sentence due to his many flaws (with 2018 and 2019 you wouldn't even have to try this hard, to be honest).

Maybe we should try to squeeze whatever there is good to squeeze from everything, rather than focus on the bad at all cost. I mean, for example I've seen many people enjoying again 2018, while I could go all day about the stuff that makes me hate it with passion. But to what use?

 

[Emroth]

@chickenhawk - i can sign my name under your post with both hands and feet.

This is EXACTLY what happend to me. Was having a really nice, ballanced and FAIR season (2nd season in fact) with Wolves until I hit this scripted period.
And as much as I could look pass that in the past, this time it destroyed me. There was few games, where I was 3-0 up and fully in control and then in 80th min game just switched my team off. It really felt like this. Lost them all 3-4.
Last one was against "Old Boys", which just broke me.

So I started new ML with Kilmarnock in Scotland. But apart of AI being tiny bit less surgical it still didnt feel good. Along with AI having more mistakes, my players also felt much worse (to ballance it, right?).
And I dont mean worse because they missed chances, or passes. That I could understand. Switching and team mates reaction was awful. My whole team was like training cones, just standing there while ball went by.

So I went back to Pes18 and it was a really good move for my general mental health.
Still hope they will patch it somehow, coz I always believed 19 has huge potential. But at the moment its soul destroying.

 

[Schwarzenbeck]

Has someone figured out the logic of jump vs no jump in midfield when the AI goalie has cleared the ball?

I simply don‘t get it. Half of the time my player jumps for the ball, half of the time (despite holding R2) he is stuck to the ground like in a concrete cast and the ball drops onto the chest of the AI forward.

It seems random but usually nothing is in PES..

 

[PotatoCouch]

I'm becoming more and more like toxic for this PES society; I feel like there isn't enough call names for players in PES (in general since whenever) well it hasn't improved in PES 2019. It comes down to the commentator / commentary need extreme haul. i.e. Ajax in FIFA 19, champions league game, Lee Dixon ... my oh my .. almost every single Ajax player got a call name ... the game is shit ... very ping pong ... no ball physic whatsoever .. but very aesthetic!

 

[Dennis_87]

I'm becoming more and more like toxic for this PES society; I feel like there isn't enough call names for players in PES (in general since whenever) well it hasn't improved in PES 2019. It comes down to the commentator / commentary need extreme haul. i.e. Ajax in FIFA 19, champions league game, Lee Dixon ... my oh my .. almost every single Ajax player got a call name ... the game is shit ... very ping pong ... no ball physic whatsoever .. but very aesthetic!

The good thing is that if you are on pc you can have thousands of extra call names and team names and houndreds of chants for almost every team due to Predator's great mods.It really transforms the poor default atmosphere and commentary.
And also tons of other mods to make the game more realistic and better.Now that Pes on pc is on par with consoles on graphics,pc is surely the way to go to enjoy a more completed Pes.
The only problem is that if you play online there are less players than on consoles and there are also more pathetic lowlife cheaters on pc who void matches because they can't take a defeat like a man.

 

[PotatoCouch]

The good thing is that if you are on pc you can have thousands of extra call names and team names and houndreds of chants for almost every team due to Predator's great mods.It really transforms the poor default atmosphere and commentary.

oh mate, I was in that boat, back when I was still at Uni; couldn't remember which PES was it ... I still remember kitServer (by Juce) was the main engine for the mod and that you activate everything via that thing. Not only that I have most faces realistic, (as you said) I also have all the call names, FIFA commentaries in PES game, better and sharper turf, misc. adboards ... PES on PC is the bomb! unfortunately, I don't have the budget at the moment for a powerful PC, just to play PES. I can't justify the cost.

 

[Chuny]

Agree,I published this one before,SS PAO.
And I can break away quite easily if the game aren't on s shitty script run,which it wasn't here.
Miss the good (pre patch 4) Pes 19

Yeah but look how quickly the defender catches up to you from 00:47 to 00:48.
Plus it's a big, heavy defender, against a smaller, quicker player. If you would've kept the ball for one more second, he would have dispossessed you. That's more or less what I've been talking about.

 

[Chuny]

Like @slamsoze said, it has been in the game forever and discussed just as long – from my personal experience going back all the way to the PS1 era games.

Always annoyed me, but for some reason, like @rockstrongo, I am not having such an issue with it in 19. I have the feeling that, like a lot of other things in the game, it‘s dependent on stats, traits, form, and game situations (iow, it is ‚scripted‘).

For example, I‘ve noticed it is easier to go around or outrun the AI when you are behind in the score. It‘s the game‘s crude interpretation of momentum, like saying: ok, now that I scored, it‘s your time..

And it could be dependent on player traits. I can consistently go down the left flank with Luke Shaw, run past the AI and whip the cross in. I don‘t think he is a particularly fast player (not like, say, Rashford). Same with Odriozola on the other side. Think that they all have ‚pinpoint crossing‘ traits or ‚roaming flank‘ style or something like that and this, in combination with their speed and accel values makes them succeed more often (though not always).

Lastly, you need to get the timing right. What often works for me is to let go of all buttons and hold the left stick to a slow jog then find the moment when the AI player makes a move and then double-tap R1 to go by. It doesn't always work but often enough.

I'm not feeling the stats at all.
One of my biggest gripes with PES for a long time.

Hazard is as good of a dribbler as Verratti.
Dybala is as quick when sprinting as is Mbappe.
Messi is as good when cutting inside as is Coutinho.

Yes, I'm talking about top players here. But in real life they are all very different indeed. And one wouldn't be able to do what the other can. Dybala is not a very fast player IRL. Coutinho isn't a great dribbler or doesn't cut inside like Messi does. Hazard is a great dribbler and has outstanding ball-shielding while Verratti is a great passer and playmaker.

 

[Schwarzenbeck]

I'm not feeling the stats at all.
One of my biggest gripes with PES for a long time.

Hazard is as good of a dribbler as Verratti.
Dybala is as quick when sprinting as is Mbappe.
Messi is as good when cutting inside as is Coutinho.

Yes, I'm talking about top players here. But in real life they are all very different indeed. And one wouldn't be able to do what the other can. Dybala is not a very fast player IRL. Coutinho isn't a great dribbler or doesn't cut inside like Messi does. Hazard is a great dribbler and has outstanding ball-shielding while Verratti is a great passer and playmaker.

We had this discussion before here (not you and me, but in general).

Yes, when it comes to the AI, I agree, there is not enough differentiation, though I consistently struggle more against particular players/teams than others (Crystal Palace/Zaha, Leicester/Vardy being two examples) which must be based somehow on stats, though not particularly realistic.

There is a clear(er) difference though on the human side. I can't speak for Juve or Chelsea because I am almost exclusively playing Manchester United. But there are very tangible differences between Pogba and Lingard, Lukaku and Fred. In terms of speed (which was the start of the discussion) I can beat the AI with Rashford, Fred and Lingard, while with Pogba or Lukaku it doesn't make much sense.

Could it be much more pronounced? Absolutely. But that stats (and more importantly: player traits) don't matter at all, I don't agree.

 

[philla]

Amen to that. Every game is exploitable to some degree, and most of all every recent game could be described (read: demolished) with an harsh ironic sentence due to his many flaws (with 2018 and 2019 you wouldn't even have to try this hard, to be honest).

See, PES2019 might be annoying as hell due to its scripted "5-minute-CPU-supernatural freakouts" (which are defendable imo, if you do tactical fouls etc.). But there are so many options to make the game easier (go down in difficulty level, raise assistance...), so it works out somehow at the end of the day.

Different situation on PES2017. Even with the most hardcore settings available (superstar, full manual, low vs. top team and even avoiding passing) the AI is nowhere near to get you in trouble. This is a absolutely gamebreaking bottleneck and there is nothing worse to a game than a provocative lack in challenge. Try the same at PES2019 on legendary, and the CPU will rip you to pieces.

 

[ThomasGOAL]

Apparently Club Universitario de Deportes and the Estadio Monumental "U"
coming on PES 2020

 

[Madmac79]

See, PES2019 might be annoying as hell due to its scripted "5-minute-CPU-supernatural freakouts" (which are defendable imo, if you do tactical fouls etc.). But there are so many options to make the game easier (go down in difficulty level, raise assistance...), so it works out somehow at the end of the day.

See, you'll be surprised to know that not everybody search and look for the same things you do in a football videogame.

In the end, in 2019 every team pretty much play the same. Cpu never dribbles. Cpu pretty much finish always the same way. Individuality (by your own ammission) is just plain bad with faster players getting caught by defenders with ridiculous stats. The kind of stuff of this gem of a soccer gaming (cit.) I described here is gamebreaking for many judging by the people abandoning it here for past iterations.

Different situation on PES2017. Even with the most hardcore settings available (superstar, full manual, low vs. top team and even avoiding passing) the AI is nowhere near to get you in trouble. This is a absolutely gamebreaking bottleneck and there is nothing worse to a game than a provocative lack in challenge. Try the same at PES2019 on legendary, and the CPU will rip you to pieces.

Pes 2017 in ML is more than challenging. Not my only opinion but the one of many others (even here of course) that played it at the times.

This, if you try at least mildly to play football, of course. I admit I've never tried to cheese the cpu like you did in the friendly (where the cpu is less aggressive, let's remember it) of that video above you keep spamming whenever somebody half praises Pes 2017, but truthful or not I doubt it's a good way to approach a fun game.

Besides, Pes 2019 could be as challenging as you want, "challenge" per se isn't certainly the only important thing in a football game. On the contrary, if "challenge" is completely flawed, unrealistic and immersion breaking, I don't know what I should value it for.

 

[tosser]

Agree with Mad above. What I look for most is the scope and ability to score a wide range of goals. '17 had this in abundance - at least compared to what followed. You could even score long range curling/finesse shots. Why these were effectively removed from PES 18 onwards I'll never know.

I've had to go back to PES 18 as the current iteration is shocking. If I could find an up to date OF for 17 I'd be playing that.

 

[PRO_TOO]

Yeah but look how quickly the defender catches up to you from 00:47 to 00:48.
Plus it's a big, heavy defender, against a smaller, quicker player. If you would've kept the ball for one more second, he would have dispossessed you. That's more or less what I've been talking about.

this scene to me looks like: striker got an advantage of 1-2 meter and when he hits the ball, sure he's loosing some ground! thats a natural thing! no player can keep the same speed while sprinting and/or hitting a ball (one leg becomes a "standing leg", when sprinting both legs keep the player moving forward).
i say this knowing the whole catch-up thing/sprinting/stats thing is not perfect!

 

[philla]

See, you'll be surprised to know that not everybody search and look for the same things you do in a football videogame.

I could give that sentence back to you in exactly the same words. I think its basic knowledge everyone can just speak for himself in here.

The shown playstyle in the PES2017 vid is exemplary to point out the complete absence of CPU awareness. The game doesn´t get more challenging if you start to use passing, as you can imagine.

This difference between friendlies and ML is a myth, too. I can expect that friendlies and tournaments give my a halfway decent soccer AI as well. If ML is truly a difference (i don´t play it), it is most probable down to scripting. I don´t think KONAMI saved the PES2017 wonder AI exclusively to ML players.

 

[Madmac79]

I could give that sentence back to you in exactly the same words. I think its basic knowledge everyone can just speak for himself in here.

It's you who keep putting challenge at all (even ridiculous, like it is in 2019) cost like the ultimate goal for a football game. I'm just kindly explaining to you that isn't like this for many others. Challenge alone doesn't make a football game good.

The shown playstyle in the PES2017 vid is exemplary to point out the complete absence of CPU awareness. The game doesn´t get more challenging if you start to use passing, as you can imagine.

The shown playstyle in the PES2017 vid is exemplary of somebody trying to cheese the game at an unknown difficulty.. nothing more, really.

This difference between friendlies and ML is a myth, too. I can expect that friendlies and tournaments give my a halfway decent soccer AI as well. If ML is truly a difference (i don´t play it), it is most probable down to scripting. I don´t think KONAMI saved the PES2017 wonder AI exclusively to ML players.

Like, seriously ? The difference in difficulty between ML and friendlies is one of the staples of the saga. I don't even know what to say to this. Every person who played half a season in ML could attest this.

 

[Chris Davies]

I've had to go back to PES 18 as the current iteration is shocking. If I could find an up to date OF for 17 I'd be playing that.

How are you finding 18?

As Middlesbrough in 17, I played Chelsea on Superstar and drew 0-0 - it felt great, but I wondered if maybe it was too easy considering the difference between the teams. Chelsea had a pass accuracy of 80%, which felt wrong.

So I tried 18 again, as Burnley v Man United on Superstar, and got beat 1-0 - but it didn't feel right, because United were playing long balls to Ibra all day long and Ibra was just smashing long-range shots at goal, never running into the penalty box even when there was space. They ended up with 90% pass accuracy, which (from humping balls forward all game) definitely felt wrong!