Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)
Ah yes actually I see what you mean, I just come back from footy, so about the directions for shooting, I dont really know how they can implement all this into a game with a controller at the moment, but maybe we could use the six axis, I mean, we got square for height, but if its just power then how do we adjust height, we cant let cpu/ai decide beased on player position, as people will argue its still not down the them, so what could we do, we have R2 for placement, so why not use the six axis, maybe tilt like up so foot is more flat and player leans forward so its lower, then back player back, shoots higher, then you ould turn the controller for curl, and then you could curl and tilt forward adding curl, dip, just something like that, but mybe that could be too much?
The directions can be better I suppose, even with the d-pad say something like this... up is post/nearpost aswell as down for the other side, straight is straight on, down middle, and then the diagnals, are inbetween, something like that, and then obviously you can do that with the analog stick but to a more degree of accuracy, but that alone is good for dpad. Because, I swear aiming up or down, or diagnal same way, does the same shot or type either wide or near post, not inbetween, well it is if ur lucky.
Thought id comment on this post, never read the rest, because I saw shooting a major flaw, in the 360 one anyway, the ps2 one is goo enough for last gen, maybe could do with the change of the directions thing.
You know, it would work. One of the main things I miss is the ability to decide how the players should try and curl the ball and such. Obviously the stance, foot shape and balance of the player all factor in when you shoot, but if you could tilt the sixaxis like you describe, then the player would try and shape himself so that the ball will get the curl you want. Also this means that you won't need to take up any buttons just to curl etc, and you won't need to use aftertouch curling (curling the ball after it has left the boot, which means that the ball suddenly starts curling after it has left the boot, ISS98 had this and it was fun tho unrealistic).
As for Shot height, it can be determined simply tilting (leaning) the analog stick differently. For example, leaning it 50% will make the shot grounded. Leaning it all the way will have the player trying for a high shot. The reason 50% should be the lowest point, is that if you try and tilt the stick less than that value (tilting it very little) it becomes hard to determine direction. You need to lean it about half-way to full before you have adequate control over direction aswell as the tilt.
The analog stick can solve alot of things if you use it fully. Just before you shoot, you just tilt the analog stick to the degree you want the shot to be, and then you hope for the best.
I'm glad I've had a few serious replies now, thank you. And I respect what you guys (mainly Adonis, Han and mattster12) have to say. I disagree on a few things, and I'll make this as quick as possible because there's a nice vibe now and I don't want it to break down again
Han: I wasn't playing the PS2 version because it's patchable, I was playing it because I really don't like the 360 version. I don't see too much of a difference but the one thing that ruined the 360 version for me was the shooting. I could have taken hundreds of video-clips of myself tapping the shoot button as quickly as possible, as if it hurt to push it, and yet the ball would balloon over every time (even if you hold down that low-shot button). I'd play online and it would feel like total, utter chance whether you'd score or not. Either the power-bar would be normal or (nine times out of ten) it would be hyper. You feel so powerless in the equation.
Mattster12: For me, trying to adjust to free passing is nightmarish - I'm sure it can be done but it's very difficult to use the right stick, and if there was just a "manual passing yes/no" option in the controller settings (that you could use just by using the left stick and the pass button), it would be a million times easier. I also disagree that being able to do a short through-ball or a long through-ball is enough options, because you're not actually controlling the power yourself, you're just choosing which player the CPU aims at for you. I realise that some people prefer this, but they could at least give us the option. With your other points, I find myself thinking "why should I have to perform three-button combos when all I want is to move freely/for my fellow player to have common sense? Why do you have to force the game into acting naturally?"
Yes, shooting is horrible, and it is a fact.
If I tap the shot button as quickly as I can, I WANT the player to shot very gently. Instead the shot bar will swing up to sometimes 50+ %, and the ball wil go over. In other words, in certain situations it is impossible to get it on goal. I don't understand why the shotbar isn't linear liek the pass power bar.
After all, the powerbar is a representation of the power I WANT the player to put into the shot. Yet in certain situations it is impossible to get less than 50% power on the shot bar.
And here's the kicker: The shotbar goes up faster when the player is unbalanced, which means that the player will only be able to strike hard shots when off balance. I thought in real life, the player would get a poorer hit when off balance, which obviously results in
less power. How is that for backwards logic?
And besides, just because you are off balance in real life, doesn't mean you can't tap the ball very gently. But in PES they just suckerpunch the ball over when they are off balance.
Is what I just mentioned really rocket science. It is common sense, yet KONAMI designs a system that is completely backwards.
As for manual passing with the Right Stick, it is not a proper solution.
First of all IT IS 16-way at MOST! Even if you lived in the 1980's, that wasn't referred as "Analog". Analog is 256 directions, or perhaps 128. 16 is just a fancy d-pad. Try being accurate with 50m longpasses with 16-way. Beckham would be out of a job.
Secondly, why should I have to fiddle with the Right Analog Stick when I already havemy left thumb permanently planted on the Left Analog Stick? I have trouble properly finding the Right analog with my thumb in the heat of the battle, not to mention trying to click it and move it simultaneously to activate the pass mode. I do roulettes and stuff aswell with it, so don't gice me any "tips" on making passing primary and having to click the stick to activate tricks etc.
I'm so pissed at the logic KONAMI uses. The player is offbalance, let's make the shotbar fly up so that he bombs the ball over. Yeah, that happens often.
Have you ever heard a soccer player say something like this:
"I'm sorry coach, I was clear on goal and was just going to tap it in, but then I got a push and instead of broadsiding it into goal, I just blasted it instead. I was off balance and so I really didn't have an option".
The coach obviously responds with "It's okay mate, we all know you can't hit a ball gently when you are off balance, it's a law of physics or something. Your leg will just swing so hard if you are off balance, you don't have any control over your muscles."
Also one thing I've always wanted them to implement is the shot fake through ball. For example the one Sheringham did in Euro 96 to set up Shearer against the Dutch. It could be done so easily and it would add something to the game I think. 
. havent seen you on here in ages.
. The game decides how hard it wants the pass to be, depending upon the current cicumstances in the AI model, not you.
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