Your Dream FIFA Game...

Emroth

Emroth

*Help available in future updates
Staff
18 August 2018
Ireland
Since football games these days are far from what we imagined they'll be 10 years ago I thought it might be a good idea to create this thread, where we could write up what we would like to see in our dream football game. I'll focus on Fifa since this game has much more wiggle room when it comes to settings and improvements.

Also - as much as I can - I'll try to focus on gameplay, rather than cosmetics.

Brace yourselves - its gonna be a long one...

First of all - gameplay simply MUST be split between online and offline. These two worlds will never work together. Online is created with User Vs User in mind and they dont want any AI interference. Offline - we simply MUST have an AI. Without it - game is empty.

Now what do I need in a football game in order to fall in love and put all other games aside for months? Couple of things. Ironically - some would say basics that we used to have and somehow lost them over the years...

1. Unpredictability.
I need to have a challenge. Not only by trying to stop Messi dancing around me with the speed of light. I need to be forced to think. I need AI to surprise me. Change their patterns, depending on a situation. AI used to learn how we play and then change formation, or put extra defender to cover our most used attacker. If we had great midfield and AI couldnt get through - they changed their tactics and used wings. When they were losing - they would replace midfielder with forward player.
I need AI to keep surprising me.
2. Stats that matter
We really dont need 0-100 in stats. There is no difference when a player has 80 or 90 skill. There are barely any differences at all.. id rather have 0-20 but really impactful. I remember old Pes games, where at the end of the first season I could affort only one player. And I had to make a decision whether its going to be forward, midfielder, or defender.
Id buy a guy with 70 ratings and he would make a huge difference in compare to the guys on my team who had 60-65.
Stats used to matter. They affected shots, passes, tackles, speed, strenght, headers, power, everything. And you could really feel the difference
3. Error
Again - goes directly against what online community wants. I need error. I need my players to miss, depending on the situation. If they dont kick it properly, dont time it right. We used to have miss kicks and slips and trips... it was magical and so immersive.
And again - stats should be the main driver there
4. Grind.
I like to start at the bottom. And I want to work hard to get to the top. Whats the point of starting in a lower league if at the end of the season I have a team that can easily compete in premier league?
I want this feeling back, where slightly better player that I could finally afford was making a difference!
Even online - if online had some proper grind and I could play against people who have shit players in some bronze league - it would be fun. Teams would be different, unique. Instead - a week later its the same 11vs11, full of Mbappes and Messis. Fuck that.
5. Physicality
Some people have nets obsession, others have cloths physics obsession- I need good physicality. I need to see fight on the pitch. Football is a physical game and currently there is none of that in Fifa. AI players keep their distance and no one fights for the ball. Fouls are there just as box ticking exercise. Ridiculous, out of nowhere, pointless. I want fouls. I love fouls. But I need them to make sense. Whether its an aggressive defender who is known from being tough (hi, John Terry from PES), or its a situation where Im a danger to AI and they need to risk it.
I want to see shoulder to shoulder battles, shirts pulling... you know - all the stuff we used to have...
6. Inertia and proper physics, both players and ball related.
Nothing to add there, apart from the fact that current dancing on Ice and light speed dribbling is as unrealistic as it is UNfun.
7. Challenge
This is a huge one for me. And again - something that used to be there and os long lost. I remember when I started new football game back in the day. It would have taken me few matches to even get a shot on target. I had to learn how much power to apply, when to kick the ball, when to have a first touch. The learning curve was massive and I loved it. Getting better with time, getting to know your players strenghts and weeknessed - it felt compelling and rewarding.
8. Player individuality
Another long lost treasure. AI players used to play like their counter parts. There were huge differences between spme unknown BoB and Zidane. AI players had their own playstyle, some of them were becoming our nightmares, scoring in every match against that team. We remembered their names, their faces, even if they werent known players at the time, just good.
9. Shots variety
Shots should be based on stats, physics, ball position, speed, body position... you know - all the things that used to matter when you were kicking the ball. You could have an absolute missile, or break Gods window.. and both felt great.
10. Injuries, bookings, form
Oh how I miss these days where I was sitting there, scratching my head who do I put in first 11, coz I had 2 red cards, 2 injuries and my subs were all in terrible form... nowadays you start Fifa career and after few weeks every one is fucking ecstatic, top form, boosts left right centre, +5, +7... jesus... can I please struggle a little bit...?????

Thats all I can think of right now. I hope that discussion will evolve and people will add to it.
What do we miss?
What we would like to see back?
Since I wont be playing this year - at least Id like to read your thoughts.
 
Emroth said:
Since football games these days are far from what we imagined they'll be 10 years ago I thought it might be a good idea to create this thread, where we could write up what we would like to see in our dream football game. I'll focus on Fifa since this game has much more wiggle room when it comes to settings and improvements.

Also - as much as I can - I'll try to focus on gameplay, rather than cosmetics.

Brace yourselves - its gonna be a long one...

First of all - gameplay simply MUST be split between online and offline. These two worlds will never work together. Online is created with User Vs User in mind and they dont want any AI interference. Offline - we simply MUST have an AI. Without it - game is empty.

Now what do I need in a football game in order to fall in love and put all other games aside for months? Couple of things. Ironically - some would say basics that we used to have and somehow lost them over the years...

1. Unpredictability.
I need to have a challenge. Not only by trying to stop Messi dancing around me with the speed of light. I need to be forced to think. I need AI to surprise me. Change their patterns, depending on a situation. AI used to learn how we play and then change formation, or put extra defender to cover our most used attacker. If we had great midfield and AI couldnt get through - they changed their tactics and used wings. When they were losing - they would replace midfielder with forward player.
I need AI to keep surprising me.
2. Stats that matter
We really dont need 0-100 in stats. There is no difference when a player has 80 or 90 skill. There are barely any differences at all.. id rather have 0-20 but really impactful. I remember old Pes games, where at the end of the first season I could affort only one player. And I had to make a decision whether its going to be forward, midfielder, or defender.
Id buy a guy with 70 ratings and he would make a huge difference in compare to the guys on my team who had 60-65.
Stats used to matter. They affected shots, passes, tackles, speed, strenght, headers, power, everything. And you could really feel the difference
3. Error
Again - goes directly against what online community wants. I need error. I need my players to miss, depending on the situation. If they dont kick it properly, dont time it right. We used to have miss kicks and slips and trips... it was magical and so immersive.
And again - stats should be the main driver there
4. Grind.
I like to start at the bottom. And I want to work hard to get to the top. Whats the point of starting in a lower league if at the end of the season I have a team that can easily compete in premier league?
I want this feeling back, where slightly better player that I could finally afford was making a difference!
Even online - if online had some proper grind and I could play against people who have shit players in some bronze league - it would be fun. Teams would be different, unique. Instead - a week later its the same 11vs11, full of Mbappes and Messis. Fuck that.
5. Physicality
Some people have nets obsession, others have cloths physics obsession- I need good physicality. I need to see fight on the pitch. Football is a physical game and currently there is none of that in Fifa. AI players keep their distance and no one fights for the ball. Fouls are there just as box ticking exercise. Ridiculous, out of nowhere, pointless. I want fouls. I love fouls. But I need them to make sense. Whether its an aggressive defender who is known from being tough (hi, John Terry from PES), or its a situation where Im a danger to AI and they need to risk it.
I want to see shoulder to shoulder battles, shirts pulling... you know - all the stuff we used to have...
6. Inertia and proper physics, both players and ball related.
Nothing to add there, apart from the fact that current dancing on Ice and light speed dribbling is as unrealistic as it is UNfun.
7. Challenge
This is a huge one for me. And again - something that used to be there and os long lost. I remember when I started new football game back in the day. It would have taken me few matches to even get a shot on target. I had to learn how much power to apply, when to kick the ball, when to have a first touch. The learning curve was massive and I loved it. Getting better with time, getting to know your players strenghts and weeknessed - it felt compelling and rewarding.
8. Player individuality
Another long lost treasure. AI players used to play like their counter parts. There were huge differences between spme unknown BoB and Zidane. AI players had their own playstyle, some of them were becoming our nightmares, scoring in every match against that team. We remembered their names, their faces, even if they werent known players at the time, just good.
9. Shots variety
Shots should be based on stats, physics, ball position, speed, body position... you know - all the things that used to matter when you were kicking the ball. You could have an absolute missile, or break Gods window.. and both felt great.
10. Injuries, bookings, form
Oh how I miss these days where I was sitting there, scratching my head who do I put in first 11, coz I had 2 red cards, 2 injuries and my subs were all in terrible form... nowadays you start Fifa career and after few weeks every one is fucking ecstatic, top form, boosts left right centre, +5, +7... jesus... can I please struggle a little bit...?????

Thats all I can think of right now. I hope that discussion will evolve and people will add to it.
What do we miss?
What we would like to see back?
Since I wont be playing this year - at least Id like to read your thoughts.
Click to expand...
It won't happen. They won't give us any of the features you've mentioned. I don't want to go deep into a devs discussion but don't expect anything. Devs around 45+ yrs old are resigning. I know some bizarre stories from 2 big companies and how they're forcing devs to work under a certain online/microtransactions strict plan. I know much more but I'd better stop it here.
 
Can't disagree, great list.

I would add one thing that may seem even more wild but it's something I thought could be achieved by now if online/gambling didn't exist, the ability to win or lose games not just on the pitch with a gamepad in hand but also on the tactics screen. Doesn't have to be Football Manager deep, but simple things like maybe having real trouble going forward if your opponent outnumbers you in midfield, recognizing that and having to adapt, or the cpu targeting a certain area when attacking because you have a weakness there, stuff like that.

Most tactics in both games are just exaggerated garbage and not balanced at all. Think games where you score half a dozen goals because the cpu presses unrealistically and actually makes the game easier for you because tactics & the gameplay mechanics are not balanced for example. Then maybe having better players than the cpu could mean a bad loss if the manager AI outsmarts you (instead of cheating).

At the end of the day I would say I'll be happy with balanced gameplay, balanced tactics and a game that required me to use my brain on and off the pitch. My brain literally enters sleep mode playing any recent footy game going mindlessly up and down the pitch.
 
Last edited:
  • Thread starter
  • Staff
  • #4
fear said:
It won't happen
Click to expand...
Maybe not.
But one thing is certain - this is one of the very few online forums dedicated mainly to football games left. Its the main place for mods and discussions.
Im certain that developers are lurking here, even if we dont know about it.
And thread like this, constructively accumulating what would we like to see in football games might help. Its much better to explain in detail why are we so against new football games.
Most of the developers think we expect miracles... we dont... we just want basics. Things that are very easy to implement if they would like to lure offline players back.
 
Love the idea of this thread. I'll post in more detail later, but one thing I would like to see developers do is bring in some coaches/managers to work with regarding the fundamental positioning and behaviour of the game - positioning/spacing/tactics/reacting.

We want depth - and you can't have it unless the fundamentals are right in the first place.
 
Emroth said:
Im certain that developers are lurking here, even if we dont know about it.
And thread like this, constructively accumulating what would we like to see in football games might help. Its much better to explain in detail why are we so against new football games.
Click to expand...

I think the problem is that developers are simply doing what they're told. Is there a CM producer who is responsible for the decisions and the direction of the mode? Not that I am aware of. There needs to be one. There's one for Volta.

Then I think they're not doing a very good job of gathering feedback. It's impossible to know where to look for when there're millions playing and it seems they're only turning a head to very loud noises, if you can get a hashtag trending for example. Or on youtubers / "game changers". Their thinking must be that if 100.000 people watch one then that person could be a good source of community feedback (and even more importantly an influencer). But they're playing the game in a very different way. In fact playable highlights could be a youtubers fave feature: Play less, produce more content for your time, make more money. Can they really advocate for a deeper CM or have they lost touch?

Anyway, CM was, probably still is, and definitely has the potential to be huge. Have a good/big enough team with a producer in place and just work on it. Unfortunately for them (and us), gameplay wise it has to be the exact opposite of what competitive online is.
 
manmachine said:
I think the problem is that developers are simply doing what they're told. Is there a CM producer who is responsible for the decisions and the direction of the mode? Not that I am aware of. There needs to be one. There's one for Volta.

Then I think they're not doing a very good job of gathering feedback. It's impossible to know where to look for when there're millions playing and it seems they're only turning a head to very loud noises, if you can get a hashtag trending for example. Or on youtubers / "game changers". Their thinking must be that if 100.000 people watch one then that person could be a good source of community feedback (and even more importantly an influencer). But they're playing the game in a very different way. In fact playable highlights could be a youtubers fave feature: Play less, produce more content for your time, make more money. Can they really advocate for a deeper CM or have they lost touch?

Anyway, CM was, probably still is, and definitely has the potential to be huge. Have a good/big enough team with a producer in place and just work on it. Unfortunately for them (and us), gameplay wise it has to be the exact opposite of what competitive online is.
Click to expand...
I remember when they made a big deal a few years ago that a guy who worked for football manager was taking over career mode on FIFA and I expected big things , but it's just been the same old thing year after year
 
  • Thread starter
  • Staff
  • #9
manmachine said:
I think the problem is that developers are simply doing what they're told. Is there a CM producer who is responsible for the decisions and the direction of the mode? Not that I am aware of. There needs to be one. There's one for Volta.

Then I think they're not doing a very good job of gathering feedback. It's impossible to know where to look for when there're millions playing and it seems they're only turning a head to very loud noises, if you can get a hashtag trending for example. Or on youtubers / "game changers". Their thinking must be that if 100.000 people watch one then that person could be a good source of community feedback (and even more importantly an influencer). But they're playing the game in a very different way. In fact playable highlights could be a youtubers fave feature: Play less, produce more content for your time, make more money. Can they really advocate for a deeper CM or have they lost touch?

Anyway, CM was, probably still is, and definitely has the potential to be huge. Have a good/big enough team with a producer in place and just work on it. Unfortunately for them (and us), gameplay wise it has to be the exact opposite of what competitive online is.
Click to expand...
I dont see it as an opportunity to change the game. Im not that naive and im not blind.
But working for a big corporation has taught me one thing - they are always looking for ways to make more.
If, by gathering our feedback, someone eventually agrees to the idea of splitting the gameplay into offline/online, arcade/sim and they see it as a real opportunity to bring even more players - that could work.

Besides - I dont really have much left to do here since I stopped playing football games. Im here only for you guys.
So I might as well have a little chat around the fire.. ;) :LOL:
 
i want two things, PES 2021 has potential, but if only the Ai has more variety in it s shots and the net behavior.... if PES can have the shot variety of the cpu that fifa has and the net physics, this would be the best game ever, but unfortunately after a while of master league games, u see how one dimensional the AI attack is in that game
 
Just a little comparison here guys - 16 vs 23. I want to show what's lacking behaviourally with the CPU - and also again illustrate why '1v1' is a huge issue.

This is 16 when I have the ball out on the wing on a bit of a counter attack.

1. You can see the two Chelsea players. They're currently out of the game but are in the process of getting into position.

11.png

2. Now look where they go and position themselves -

12.png

3. And to finish we can see they make the interception. So they're not only 'there' they are 'active'.

13.png

It's also important to note the other Chelsea players in the shots. Notice how they aren't just lined up in straight lines. They are organically positioned to cut passing lanes - based on WHERE THE BALL IS! That should always be the focus. They're still in formation but there's intelligence to their position - and this is always changing based on context.

Alright, now we move on to FIFA 23.

1. I'm starting a similar counter here -

55.jpg

2. Look at how the defender just gives up and stands there.

56.jpg

3. To top it off, I simply just run straight by the RB and I'm completely in on goal. No-one adjusting their positioning anywhere else in the team, the midfield completely out of the game. Why the midfielder who completely just stood there when the ball was close, yet now decides to make a pointless effort to run back now also frustrates me. He's never going to get there, and even if he did, he would just stand there again and let himself by run around. This is a huge issue with 1v1!

57.jpg

4. If you say ok well the ball is in a different position here, well then here's a DIFFERENT part of the game where I tested the exact same thing. This is how it looked. See the circled player makes no effort to be crowding any kind of space, he's simply just in his 'formation' and not aware of the where the ball is.

58.jpg

5. And finally you can again see the defenders are not interested where the ball is, they're just sticking to their line and waiting to be run around.

59.jpg

I'll leave you with a direct screenshot of both in the key phase to compare -

16
12.png
23
56.jpg
59.jpg

Both on default sliders. I should add 16 was actually on World Class and 23 was on Legendary - so I think that tells you something also. We want intelligent movement based on the context of each moment, positioning based around where the ball is and ACTIVELY ENGAGED defenders. We want it to be difficult!
 
Last edited:
Also, just to really point out 1v1 and how it works.

In this first photo Mount is the '1' defender linked. He stays 'linked' until the ball carrier goes beyond him too far and then...........

1111.jpg

2. ................as soon as James takes up the role of the '1' defender that's the exact moment that Mount stops and just stands there.

22222.jpg

There's a reason for the stopping, standing and not being engaged - it all comes back to 1v1. You can draw these lines in your head as your playing and you can't unsee it.

The easiest way to test it is to run as far as you can with one player and you'll see the different targets cha
 
Last edited:
After playing (and loving) NBA 2k23, it got me thinking about the controls and mechanics of the game. So this is independent from the fundamentals of positioning and team play, but just a thought I had on how we could potentially bring in more simulation elements - and depth to the gameplay.

One aspect of 2k I really like is that defensively the right stick works pretty much as your hands. So you can put them up, to the sides, you can contest shots, you can reach in - all sorts of manual type defensive controls. I think something like this could work really well when defending in football games.

For example, if the physicality, intertia and physical component of the game is brought back to a place where the game is more grounded, then the right stick could work as your legs. Move the stick to the right and your right leg comes out. Use the trigger and the right stick to your right and you shoulder (or slide maybe). Mistime any of these and you could be beaten. Perhaps you could hold the right stick away from your opponent to shuffle backwards with them. The result - the smaller and more precise movements become important, and it keeps you engaged during all phases of gameplay.

Further to this, the left trigger works as a way of getting into a low defensive stance on 2k, so it's not quite a lock on because you have to consider your body positioning at all times but it helps you to engage. Something like this I think could also work really well in a football game as so much of defending is about your position and your distance. We don't want a basic 'contain' button that just locks onto the attacker, we want a mechanic where our good positioning and ability to even stay with an opponent has depth - and is manual.

Just a few thoughts anyway. These mechanical components can only truly have the depth we want when the fundamentals of the TEAM sport are achieved of course.
 
FIFA 16 or 18 with the Operation Sports sliders as the base/default and updated graphics/rosters, etc. I'd pay $100 for that as a genuine game release. We're stuck the other side with PES too. People just want 6/13/17/21 with updated graphics/rosters.

The future is in the past because EA and Konami took a wrong turn that can't be corrected without back-tracking.
 
Last edited:
I didnt want to say it in F23 thread, coz I feel like a troll at this stage and I dont want to do this to people who enjoy the game.

But there's one thing really bugs me.
Even if you find settings that suit you (FUMA included - Im a FUMA player myself)
Even if you find sliders that make the stats somewhat realistic and the game somewhat enjoyable...

...its not a game that you want to play long term. There is no upredictability from AI. Its only you and your input that creates artificial "drama".
Game like F23 is simply shallow. Even if it plays ok - after a season you will get bored of your tits. Coz AI teams play the same football.

This is what really bothers me with modern football games. They are unable to hook me for longer without feeling like Im playing the same match over and over again but with different jerseys on.

Neither on the pitch, nor outside of it - you never have to make any drastic decisions. All your players are in top form after few weeks, no one gets tired, AI is not memorable and there are no teams that become your nemesis.
Its just... empty.
 
Stats that matter. Your point 2 is so important for me, and should be what games are built from. What was the last game where it mattered, aside from speed and strength?

I’ve moved onto FUT in FIFA in recent years for consoles, and if anyone has used chem cards then they’ll know they have an impact, not felt that for a long time in single player.
 
Just to illustrate with an example - last time I felt AI being unique and memorable was Pes18. It wasnt a great game, it had its flaws (lack of fouls and too acurate rocket shots), but it was the last football game that had a decent amount of AI individuality and unpredictability.
I remember playing Italian serie A and no matter how good my team has become - I could not crack Napoli. Hamsik was an absolute beast and every time I played against them - he was destroying me.

All football games that came after lost all traces of AI individuality. Pes21, objectively, was a really good game. Decent ball physics, decent AI, everything was somewhat balanced. But it was shallow. Every match felt samey and I had zero memorable moment from playing this game.

And its all due to the fact that AI is developed as an afterthought, just to have pieces moving across the board
(And we have to work really hard to even get them moving)
 
I think you guys more or less said it all about gameplay. I'd want a smart AI that mimics football both in individuality of players and tactics; good physics, variety, unpredictability, depth both on the field and off. I'd love to see players being tangibly influenced cause they are about to face an opponent they hate for example. Derby games or just big matches in general needs to have more character without becoming some final destinationesque experience. Shooting, passing, crossing and every other fundamental respecting stats but also player's input.

Off the field.. I'd love to see a meaningful, and I mean meaningful, career of kind. Something really heavy, possibly Football Manager like (as, again, somebody already said) with many leagues (each one with their different flavour), players mood, out of the field figures like managers or chairman interacting and creating"stories" on the background, possibly with you too. Then you can have it scaling off for people that don't want this kind of depth or having plain leagues, cups or whatever. But it would be so cool to have something challenging that actually feels like a great journey not only thanks to your fantasy, that you can also finally play yourself on the field.

And for last, a giant editor that gives you some kind of enormous liberty to edit and create leagues, players, coaches and add it to the main game.. so you could recreate historical years, or just add in every minor league existing nowadays.

Nice to dream about this kind of stuff, after all that's what we are left with in this regard.
 
Emroth said:
I didnt want to say it in F23 thread, coz I feel like a troll at this stage and I dont want to do this to people who enjoy the game.

But there's one thing really bugs me.
Even if you find settings that suit you (FUMA included - Im a FUMA player myself)
Even if you find sliders that make the stats somewhat realistic and the game somewhat enjoyable...

...its not a game that you want to play long term. There is no upredictability from AI. Its only you and your input that creates artificial "drama".
Game like F23 is simply shallow. Even if it plays ok - after a season you will get bored of your tits. Coz AI teams play the same football.

This is what really bothers me with modern football games. They are unable to hook me for longer without feeling like Im playing the same match over and over again but with different jerseys on.

Neither on the pitch, nor outside of it - you never have to make any drastic decisions. All your players are in top form after few weeks, no one gets tired, AI is not memorable and there are no teams that become your nemesis.
Its just... empty.
Click to expand...
so which game for you is the one right now to enjoy from more than one season, with ai variety?
 
Hatrickhero said:
so which game for you is the one right now to enjoy from more than one season, with ai variety?
Click to expand...
Out of the new ones? None for me unfortunately..
Out of the old ones - F16 and Pes17 were last ones I could squeeze few enjoyable seasons out.
I had few seasons on Pes18 as well, but overall "softness" and lack of physicality was ruining the game for me a bit. AI individuality was one that kept me going tho.
All games that came after that - I played, but could never really feel any "magic", or depth in them. I spent more time on sliders, settings, trying different team and leagues - anything to make the game feel rewarding. Did not succeed.
 
I'd love to see a game with proper depth behind the AI.

Intelligence, variety and subtlety within the 90 minutes.

I feel like modern football games will give you very simplistic and rigid options that don't play out organically on the pitch. PES 2021 for example, we had some really nice tactical options which worked, but at the cost of any awareness of the ball. We just saw players running to set markers on the pitch the whole game. FIFA has become a little bit like this as well. I'd much rather a more subtle implementation of these tactics, with a proper base level of ball awareness.

When you set tactics to 'long-ball', that shouldn't mean the CPU just smashes every ball up the field with no regard.
When you lose the ball, your defence shouldn't just turn around and run back to their 'zone', irrespective of what's happening around them.
Little things like this and the result is a very one-dimensional, simplistic recreation of the sport. As @Emroth said, the game just feels 'empty'.

I'd love to see an intelligent implementation of different teams (and players) styles of playing. Seeing this change within the 90 minutes, teams adjusting tactics based on context of the game (or the season) etc would be a major upgrade to what we have. This is why I think bringing in proper managers/coaches to help with the behavioural and tactical elements of the game could be a huge benefit.
 
It's a great thread and you said everything, but i just prefers inertia management and physics from PES on Fifa. That's why i like the 16 but it's not even on my top 5. FIFA 14 reproduce physicality (also contacts) better overall, but not as good as on PES 19 to 21 (especially the last one... But with FIFA or EF dribble as they've got the same system while turning. Even if i know you don't like it)

Now we're talking about dream so i will mix the possible and impossible.

Edited about it, i forgot one of the most important thing :
-15-16 minutes games. It's some minutes more but it should be the standard to base on for calibrating the game. It's very few minutes more, but there's a lot of "miss" in more. The pitch is too big, the game needs a bit more time to get from a side to another, and it should be more doable with more minutes to get from a side to another, having midfield battle... It was doable on FIFA 14 as the pitch was pretty smaller, less now. Even on Fifa 16 there's acceleration and too quick movement i hate.

-A bigger and a bit ball too for more an impact effect, i ain't a big fan of ball physics tempo on Fifa, it's too fast since a long time.

-Tactical defending same as FIFA 13/14, and instruction more "specific", without loosing 15 minutes like in PES PS2 puting arrows everywhere.

-Also, my biggest dreams is using the tool that was mentionned here (on i don't remember if it' Efootball or Fifa) which is taking EVERYTHING on the pitch such as measures, speed, weak foot, face and body structure.
It would be a very awesome tool for youth prospects : if you use it for their own league U21 etc.

Too many players got wrong height, weight, natural foot, and it's not Fifa fault or the same for PES at the time : but the website re-censing wrong informations about the players... Often from their agents to sold them. It's more and more the case.
put on spoil as it's about players errors just to mention what i found but boring to read
I remember a South AF players which was given 194 cm everywhere, but some more focused website gived him 178cm. And i compared on pictures with the full team, he was smaller than a 180cm listed and well known SAF player, well one of the smaller average from the pic.

Same as the Chelsea keeper from 20-21 : Edouard Mendy who was listed as 198 cm, but he was, by comparison with tons of players, 191cm.
Last year i did a big (for PES as it's editable) comparison and regarding from one website which was open at the time but they closed everything : i can't suscrible no more : Foroalturas. It was perfect to settle real players height with multiples comparison.

And of course, an Edit mode for players to edit, an option to create a league or a separate team.

-But without dreaming : just the option to change names of teams an import logos of course and teams, like Creation Center so Xbox people could share their stuffs the same way as you can i AO tennis, and up to you to customise your teams or one by one, or ddl a full package. EA can do that for sure, they're swimming on money like Uncle Scrooge.

The two thing, important to me but i can deal with so to put under ""
-I don't like the physical overall build of non customised player but i can make with so it's to make under "X". There's only 4 or 5 differences, same as running type etc. MUCH MORE players individuality. That's why the tool who analyse the full pitch and all players on it could be a complete game changer.
It's way too generic since a long time. And i fall in love with "playing style/movement style/FK style" since ISS Pro : it was the main reason i started to play those games. i know that many people don't care about individuality : i do. You're playing with real human being, not robots FFS.

-And the overall presentation / i'm talking about UI in general looks more like another sport game than a football one. Also menu which are VERY important to structure your tactics. I never tried to do any tactics from 08 to 19 : i deal with the tactic purposed, or just change the formation (rarely)
It's great to look, but the UI doesn't smells grass, doesn't feel like football, but more an Handball/Basket game. I would like something a bit more "good old school" like the old sports represented.

There's others things coming to my mind but that's enough i think. And i don't base it on FIFA 21 (20 to me as it's the same shit) to 23.

One notification which is personal, i deal with but hate it since the start and preferred when there was 4 or 5 pack of data by Seasons:

I'm also tired about all related to Weekly update : i would like to have a "standard teams/tactic" option to choose before starting a career.
Well, the CPU teams change themselves their composition/tactics before every game. BUT sometimes they remove a more important youth because he wasn't on the bench for one match or two (injuries or whatever) : it's pretty annoying.
... And for the players who signed in october or whatever : all in free agents, up to you to decide to sign it or not.
 
Last edited:
Probably just expanding on point #4 - Grind:

Can they please introduce a difficulty level that makes offline modes something other than a powertrip about signing WC footballers and winning the CL in 5 years with Coventry?

I'd much prefer to have to grind for X seasons rebuilding the team before I can achieve a single promotion (if the team I pick is not in a good shape) and complete failure should also be a possibility. Maybe I can achieve PL/CL glory if I'm doing fine and decide to take an offer with a bigger club or you know I could even start a new save with a stronger team if I can't wait.

Every system introduced recently seems like a system that just gives silly boosts that make the mode trivial. From training which if used optimally can create a world class team of youth players, now to silly things like buying a toaster giving you 10 maverick points. If that ain't cringe & silly I don't know what is. All systems have to make sense and not be overpowered. Ideally I would have to use training optimally and still struggle, not break the game.

If there's a common thread in all posts, I guess it can be summarized with: More depth and take the sport seriously with all its up and downs. Not requesting a team of CERN physicists to do the physics. Just a more serious, mature take on the game, on and off the pitch.
 
Last edited:
I've not posted in here yet because the majority of my dreams are in the first few posts.

I'm a sim-gamer in general, and my dream football game would be ... well, an eSport Pro's nightmare. :LOL:

⚽ It would be Football Manager off the pitch in every way (including how attributes, cohesiveness and morale work)...

⚽ ...and on-the-pitch in the way that every player has their own brain - doing their defensive duties without being babied, and making their own terrible decisions that ruin my attacks.

⚽ I'd love to play a football game that was truly 11v11 again, so that when playing Manager Mode, every player's attributes (on both sides) really mattered...

⚽ ...where training boosts cohesiveness, a bit like the "Team Chemistry" idea from modern PES - but implemented in a realistic fashion (NOT by making the AI into Gods). For example, low-cohesive defenders playing the opponent onside, leaving huge gaps between each other etc... Midfielders and strikers timing their runs incorrectly...

(All of which you would have to manage by controlling the individuals - creating a brand new kind of "skill gap" that mirrors real-life, and I genuinely think online players would find that a breath of fresh air - up until the point where the cohesiveness goes up, at which point they become far less likely to make teamwork mistakes.)

⚽ That cohesiveness could be tied to the tactics/strategies - again, PES style - so that if you change the instructions, the team really has to adapt to it before they get good at it (unless they're the most basic instructions in the world).

⚽ But also - let it be difficult to achieve things, let it take time. If I want my team to get to 100% cohesiveness* as a priority, then I should have to set that as the training priority, and sacrifice something else (like general attribute growth).

*Not every player should be able to achieve 100% if they don't have the right attributes for it, like trying to get Tranmere defenders to play out of the back - and to get them closer to 100%, you should need to train the relevant attributes, e.g. passing in this example.

⚽ No trick-stick... Put that in Volta. Give me some basic rollovers and contextual skills based on the player's attributes, rather than needing to enter some Street Fighter combos.

⚽ Screw responsiveness - let every animation play out. Don't speed it up or splice it in a crazy way just to ensure that my pass is hit when I demand it hit. I'm not a baby.

⚽ Screw fake physics - I hate the fake physics, where the ball flies like a bullet to ensure it reaches the player. There has to be a uniform, strict set of physics laws, so if I'm trying to pass directly from CB to ST all the time, I give the ball away all the time. Same if I try to head a pass 60 yards from a ball with zero momentum. It looks weird, it feels horrible... give me real physics.

⚽ I want the game to punish me for trying to do too much with players who have below-average attributes. Again, I'm not a baby.

⚽ I don't want the game to punish me because I picked "Legendary", so all the AI players ping-pong pass the ball up the field in seconds like Man City, when they're Mansfield Town.

⚽ I want midfielders to track back for the love of God. If I finish a 5-minute half and there's been 3-4 shots because I've had to pass back and forth trying to find some space, I'm ecstatic.

⚽ I want different tactics to be required in different circumstances, and for them to work as they should....

...so if I'm Tranmere (League Two), if I try to play as if my players have any technical ability (trying to tiki-taka up the field), I should be humiliated by how many times a first-time pass goes completely awry, not rewarded. I should be having to hit long balls all game long. And they should be loose balls, not locked onto a pass target every single time... and that should still work occasionally, where a striker has enough time (and reading of the game) to change his run, get onto the pass and score.

⚽ And do you know what I'd really love? If I could play this game online with friends... Especially if we could play in a mini-league, with a cup, and with transfers. I'd die happy, then.

If I think of anything else, I'll come back...
 
Last edited:
Chris Davies said:
I've not posted in here yet because the majority of my dreams are in the first few posts.

I'm a sim-gamer in general, and my dream football game would be ... well, an eSport Pro's nightmare. :LOL:

It would be Football Manager off the pitch in every way (including how attributes, cohesiveness and morale work), and on-the-pitch in the way that every player has their own brain - doing their defensive duties without being babied, and making their own terrible decisions that ruin my attacks.

I'd love to play a football game that was truly 11v11 again, so that when playing Manager Mode, every player's attributes (on both sides) really mattered...

...where training boosts cohesiveness, a bit like the "Team Chemistry" idea from modern PES - but implemented in a realistic fashion (NOT by making the AI into Gods). For example, low-cohesive defenders playing the opponent onside, leaving huge gaps between each other etc... Midfielders and strikers timing their runs incorrectly...

(All of which you would have to manage by controlling the individuals - creating a brand new kind of "skill gap" that mirrors real-life, and I genuinely think online players would find that a breath of fresh air - up until the point where the cohesiveness goes up, at which point they become far less likely to make teamwork mistakes.)

And that cohesiveness could be tied to the tactics/strategies - again, PES style - so that if you change the instructions, the team really has to adapt to it before they get good at it (unless they're the most basic instructions in the world).

But also - let it be difficult to achieve things, let it take time. If I want my team to get to 100% cohesiveness* as a priority, then I should have to set that as the training priority, and sacrifice something else (like general attribute growth).

*Not every player should be able to achieve 100% if they don't have the right attributes for it, like trying to get Tranmere defenders to play out of the back - and to get them closer to 100%, you should need to train the relevant attributes, e.g. passing in this example.

No trick-stick... Put that in Volta. Give me some basic rollovers and contextual skills based on the player's attributes, rather than needing to enter some Street Fighter combos.

Screw responsiveness - let every animation play out. Don't speed it up or splice it in a crazy way just to ensure that my pass is hit when I demand it hit. I'm not a baby.

Screw fake physics - I hate the fake physics, where the ball flies like a bullet to ensure it reaches the player. There has to be a uniform, strict set of physics laws, so if I'm trying to pass directly from CB to ST all the time, I give the ball away all the time. Same if I try to head a pass 60 yards from a ball with zero momentum. It looks weird, it feels horrible... give me real physics.

I want the game to punish me for trying to do too much with players who have below-average attributes. Again, I'm not a baby.

I DON'T want the game to punish me because I picked "Legendary", so all the AI players ping-pong pass the ball up the field in seconds like Man City, when they're Mansfield Town.

I want midfielders to track back for the love of God. If I finish a 5-minute half and there's been 3-4 shots because I've had to pass back and forth trying to find some space, I'm ecstatic.

I want different tactics to be required in different circumstances, and for them to work as they should. So if I'm Tranmere (League Two), if I try to play as if my players have any technical ability (trying to tiki-taka up the field), I should be humiliated by how many times a first-time pass goes completely awry, not rewarded. I should be having to hit long balls all game long. And they should be loose balls, not locked onto a pass target every single time... and that should still work occasionally, where a striker has enough time (and reading of the game) to change his run, get onto the pass and score.

And do you know what I'd really love? If I could play this game online with friends... Especially if we could play in a mini-league, with a cup, and with transfers. I'd die happy, then.

If I think of anything else, I'll come back...
Click to expand...
Man, I'd absolutely lose myself forever in something like this.

It's so disappointing there isn't a market (at least one they'd care to exploit) for a similar game 😩
 
Recent chat in F23 thread about how Fifa was always Fifa and that we should not expect anything but arcade football from it, reminded me something.

Im one of the "fortunate" that can live without football games. I had long periods of time in my life when I wouldnt play any and didnt particularly miss them.

But always, since I was a child, I was drawn towards more realistic football games. And realistic games in general.

I used to play Fifas, coz there wasnt really anything else there for a while. Fifa was the only game that would allow me to play with club teams. Then, early 2000's I discovered Pro Evo and didnt touch Fifa for many many years.

Pro Evo was giving me what Fifa never could - realism, challenge, great AI and incredible feeling of reward.

That was up until Fifa 10 came out and it was revolutionary. 360 movements, slow and realistic pace - I was amazed watching clips and reading about it.
It was the first Fifa ever that I bought before I bought Pes and I could not stop playing it.
These four Fifas that came around that time - F10 --> F14 completely changed my mind about Fifa franchise.
I thought they have finally cracked it! They have finally understood how to make a good football game and they will finally be able to overtake PES.
I was really impressed how far that game has come in such short time.

Then my daughter was born and I fell out of the loop for 4 years.
But then one day in 2018 I thought to myself - I really fancy a football game.

Looking back in my memory at the last time I played them - the slow but steady pace towards greatness from Konami and Fifa that was sprinting behind them - I was expecting to be absolutely blown away by both, after 4 years of not playing any...

I was shocked to discover that both of them not only did not progress any further - but completely regressed.
A lot of great features were missing, AI felt flat and both games has lost all the magic.. Thought I was going crazy until I found this forum and realised that I was not alone and we were entering dark days for football games...
 
For me right now, fifa 23 with sliders is the closest to what pes was great about, fifa fixed the passing to some extent, especially the ball behavior/ feel when u pass the ball, but the positioning on the pitch they still didn t get 100%, even PES have regressed in that regard, and it s now replacing it by handicap or whatever u wanna call it
 
Hatrickhero said:
For me right now, fifa 23 with sliders is the closest to what pes was great about, fifa fixed the passing to some extent, especially the ball behavior/ feel when u pass the ball, but the positioning on the pitch they still didn t get 100%, even PES have regressed in that regard, and it s now replacing it by handicap or whatever u wanna call it
Click to expand...
I agree and disagree.

FIFA is closer to the perfect football game - the tech in there, the animations, the potential is absolutely huge. The gameplay engine embarrasses eFootball in every way.

And yet, eFootball has better gameplay, IMO (from the perspective of realism, which is what's "fun" to me - not scoring five goals per game). It's got dreadful mobile-game simplified eSports physics, but... So has FIFA 23.

FIFA's fundamentals are all warped for the sake of eSports and cannot, I repeat, cannot be fixed. Packs of AI players stand around doing nothing, and even the worst PES games didn't do that. The fundamentals are beyond awful.

It's all well and good having a state-of-the-art engine in your car, and that's enough for some. But you're gonna have a hell of a bumpy ride if you've got square wheels.
 
About Chris post, i got a different vision of it. But to me, i saw every FIFA 23 vids with sliders, it doesn't lay a finger from PES golden era, even PS4 logic in terms of realisms especially agility, inertia, ball slowing down etc.
To me : it's way better than the vanilla, but pretty weird to watch, unnatural.

I agree that Fifa got all "realistic" stuffs possible, but i'm really doubting about gameplay relative because it's a balance settle by the core engine, and it doesn't seems that FIFA core is made for realism in terms of gameplay but realism in terms of visuals.

Especially Hypermotion vs Inertia and physicality, it got also his tons of bugs.

Same as i don't think that Efootball is that "weak" technically : it makes me think it's kinda like PES 2015 : the engine seems a lot "blocked" for having more control over the gameplay. Even if it's not the case, the engine seems to got a LOT of potential of adding stuffs, i see all the change from versions, even if the gameplay could still be bad especially the ball physics, in terms of added algorithms they're starting to get something more and more advanced.

Even the ball physics rebounds etc. : the biggest issue is the rythm change of the ball, whatever the power bar and the feeling of striking vs pushing strong.
Like you said, the power shift transmission from foot the the ball doesn't restrancribes the feeling from ALL football games : that's what it makes the game super weird to me..

I'm perhaps wrong on both but it's just i got a different view of thing. But i totally agree that Fifa got visually much more potential in terms of realism, and then, i see players moving and pushing the ball... I'm asking myself if Hypermotion, even with all his potential, is a good or bad thing.
Then the AI, i don't see that much "advancement". It's still old gen, like Efootball. And AI algorithms are something you add, then got to change, it's as philosophical than technical in terms of approach.

Technology vs Artistic vs philosophy : it's a looongg debate. Like difficulty level from Teams and from the overall game. Fortunately i found many game pretty balanced on that aspect, it's not really a problem, it's more a matter of choice from the devs to put Cittadella playing like Bayern if you set to the highest difficulty...

To me it's a big no, it should be much more "playing with their weapons" regarding stats : so all tactical related and not stats boosted > so you will got hard with them like every small teams playing the counter with a 5-4-1 if you're stronger (only of course).

Fort that : i add it should be a revamp for the tactical CPU before the match, and automatic instructions from the CPU and awareness regarding stats from the players (like making short pass if the player got 60 in passing etc.)
Boosting their awareness of what they can and they can't do.
 
Last edited:
We need to wait and see when ea scraps the fifa franchise and which company is gonna take over and what kind of end product would that be...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom