World Cup 2010 - The Italy Thread - Prandelli!!!

Re: World Cup 2010 - The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri!

I predict great game tonight...but as slovakia fan i hope for draw :)
 
Re: World Cup 2010 - The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri!

Good second half performance, I think we should've sealed the 3 points. Iaquinta and Pepe clearly look motivated... i think they should start the next game. I think Gilardino needs to be benched. He just has no technique, which doesn't help against teams that play 5 at the back to stop us.
 
Re: World Cup 2010 - The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri!

looking forward, was a good result for both teams, and i was expecting this 1 - 1.

The italian midfield was great and Pirlo would be decisive in the FK and CK.
 
Re: World Cup 2010 - The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri!

I thought Pepe was awesome at set pieces, more than Pirlo. As a Milan fan, I cannot stand Pirlo's corner kicks.... they are often too short or lack any power.
 
Re: World Cup 2010 - The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri!

gila might aswell have pelè's technique, stef, that still wouldn't be enought to get past an entire defensive line just by himself. and he won't ever score if he doesn't get a clean ball in an entire game.
the single cf upfront system just can't work like that. any single cf system requires 2 sidebacks who can stretch the opponent's defensive line and a midfielder who can cut inside. our sidebacks did very well tonite, but marchisio can't "do the perrotta". marchisio is a very nice player, but he's different from perrotta. without perrotta we need 2 strikers upfront or we'll never gonna score.
i agree gila isn't in a great shape... afterall he hasn't been on a very good form this entire season. pazzini is definitely in much better shape right now.....however it doesn't really matters.... we might aswell have van basten upfront... a single cf just isn't gonna do the trick with this system.

pretty decent performance... we were pretty unlucky to get that goal from paraguay after dominating for the entire first half...... but then again, if u control the ball and the tempo for an entire half and don't score, then u deserve to get unlucky.
in the 2nd half, after paraguay's goal, all became much more complicated of course.

very good performances from criscito, zambrotta, pepe and de rossi (but that's not really a surprise, as i can't even remember the last time daniele had a bad game).
awful performances by marchisio, montolivo and camoranesi. playing marchisio in such a different role from his usual makes no sense. as for montolivo, what a waste... so much talent, so little personality.... he could be a monster if only he had a little more confidence. he actually had a very good season this year, and was supposed to make the last effort and step up in this world cup..... sure it's just a single game, but it doesn't look like a promising start for monto. God i miss pirlo!

good news is we have a very good stamina. that hard training preparation (that costed us that embarassing performance against mexico) apparently payed off as they players seem to be in a very good condition.
 
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Re: World Cup 2010 - The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri!

The largely criticized Pepe (also by me) tonight gave his heart and IMO he was the Italian MOM . He was a little Gattuso on the sides :P
 
Re: World Cup 2010 - The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri!

lo zio said:
gila might aswell have pelè's technique, stef, that still wouldn't be enought to get past an entire defensive line just by himself. and he won't ever score if he doesn't get a clean ball in an entire game.
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I thought his movements were poor too. Iaquinta, imo had a much better game than Gila, was moving and taking defenders on with pace and control. Gilardino reminds me of why Milan sold him. He seems to have lost some of his instinct and looks more likely to fall over. I would try Pazzo or Iaquinta as striker next game, and I guarantee they will have more scoring chances than Gila.

You said Camoranesi was poor, but imo his movement completely turned Italy into a faster and more attacking team. He came on and turned us into a temporary 4-4-2 with Pepe on the left flank and Iaquinta as a CF with Gila... thats when we were most dangerous.

I thought Chiellini was below his usual self, and thought Montolivo started to grow after Camoranesi came on.

I agree that Marchisio was disappointing, seemed very out of place. I also have to say well done to captain Fabio... I thought he was showing some signs of 2006 form.
 
Re: World Cup 2010 - The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri!

I thought his movements were poor too. Iaquinta, imo had a much better game than Gila, was moving and taking defenders on with pace and control. Gilardino reminds me of why Milan sold him. He seems to have lost some of his instinct and looks more likely to fall over. I would try Pazzo or Iaquinta as striker next game, and I guarantee they will have more scoring chances than Gila.
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iaquinta had a much better game coz it's much easier to take on the defensive line from the sideline, running towards the box, rather than handling 2 cbs, standing with your back to the goal.:))
the milan comparison is quite correct indeed. it's a matter of expectations. u just can't expect (not just gilardino but) any forward to play as a lone striker, with his back to the goal AND provide scoring chances jst by himself. if u play with your back to the goal, then u're expected to offer the ball to an upcoming midfielder. and when that upcoming midfielder actually comes to u, then u can try to turn towards the goal and actually get a shot.
i have never seen a forward getting a pass from a standing position, with the back to the goal, turn himself get past 2 cbs and shoot. i can't even imagine such a forward. that's what milan fans expected from gila during his milan days. theese expectations would have been unrealistic for riva, ronaldo and van basten, let alone gilardino.

we did a pretty good job on the sidelines but pepe, criscito, zambrotta and iaquinta provided crosses. in this situation crosses are absolutely useless coz the opposite defensive line has just 1 target too look after (the only cf): one cb on zone, another on the man and here u are the striker is NEVER gonna get a cross, no matter how good it is.
pazzini thrives on crosses, but i'm telling u, not even pazzini would have got a single cross in this conditions.
gila hasn't lost his instinct; this has been his worst season since milan days.... and yet he scored 19 goals. numbers speak for themselves.

You said Camoranesi was poor, but imo his movement completely turned Italy into a faster and more attacking team. He came on and turned us into a temporary 4-4-2 with Pepe on the left flank and Iaquinta as a CF with Gila... thats when we were most dangerous.
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that's up to the change of formation. that 4-4-2 made much more sense indeed. as for his personal contribution to the game i expect a lot more than that from camo.
 
Re: World Cup 2010 - The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri!

lo zio said:
iaquinta had a much better game coz it's much easier to take on the defensive line from the sideline, running towards the box, rather than handling 2 cbs, standing with your back to the goal.:))
the milan comparison is quite correct indeed. it's a matter of expectations. u just can't expect (not just gilardino but) any forward to play as a lone striker, with his back to the goal AND provide scoring chances jst by himself. if u play with your back to the goal, then u're expected to offer the ball to an upcoming midfielder. and when that upcoming midfielder actually comes to u, then u can try to turn towards the goal and actually get a shot.
i have never seen a forward getting a pass from a standing position, with the back to the goal, turn himself get past 2 cbs and shoot. i can't even imagine such a forward. that's what milan fans expected from gila during his milan days. theese expectations would have been unrealistic for riva, ronaldo and van basten, let alone gilardino.
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Ben, this is why I don't agree with Lippi cutting Jack Sparrow aka Borriello. He does what I consider to be a target striker that holds possession even though he will always be outnumbered but in the same time is strong enough to create his own chances. Gilardino just doesn't make me feel confident about him being our lone striker, also because I feel he falls over too easily too. We need someone that has more confident ball holding abilities, like Toni and Marco. Gilardino is great at the finishing, but how can we rely on Gilardino to lead our attack if he has such poor ball control?
 
Re: World Cup 2010 - The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri!

what you guys think about Amauri, he could be a good one? i hardly ever watch Juventus matches.
 
Re: World Cup 2010 - The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri!

I would much rather have Luca Toni playing as the lone striker. He would at least guarantee winning a few fouls around that area but Italy don't have that type of player in the squad. Might as well revert to 4-4-2.

Marchetti

Zamb Cannavaro Chiellini Criscito

Camo Montolivo De Rossi Pepe

Pazzini Di Natale

Would rather have Pepe on the right but Italy don't have a left footed winger. Maybe Criscito could play there just for the sake of balance. Maggio to come on to add some pace. Not sure about Montolivo but probably deserve a second chance in a different formation if Pirlo's unfit. I can't see Lippi changing the system though.
 
Re: World Cup 2010 - The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri!

Not Pepe's biggest fan but he was probably along with De Rossi, Italy's best player last night.

I, too would've started with Di Natale and bring Iaquinta in as a sub.
 
Re: World Cup 2010 - The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri!

Milanista said:
I thought his movements were poor too.
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I'm with you on Gila. He's not as sprightly and as dynamic as he once was (was once a winger with parma) which goes for most Italian players. Gila's movement was labored and languid and it's unlikely anyone would've been able to find him with timely, pin-point pass. That said, he could've used more help from Marchisio who just isn't up to it seems. Not only his movement and support but even his passing was off. Not sure why Lippi didn't opt to take either Candreva or Brighi if he was so interested in fielding a Perotta-like player in his line-up.

lo zio said:
as for montolivo, what a waste... so much talent, so little personality.... he could be a monster if only he had a little more confidence.
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Actually, the exact same thing occurs to me whenever I watch De Rossi. Seriously, the last thing Italy need is another defensive minded central midfielder. That said, De Rossi was excellent in the role, his reading of the play and ability to close off gaps was astounding, simply world class. He is second only to Cambiasso at this only he can actually tackle and dominate physically. The best thing about his performance yesterday is that he showed a little more going forward with some timely off-the-ball runs into the area. BUT he remains ineffectual on-the-ball which for me is a major disappointment. He is perhaps the only Italian player capable of driving forward with the ball and Italy desperately needs a player who will hold possession while the team goes into the attacking phase. Instead he has limited himself to the defensive end of the field. Still, he was Italy's MoM yesterday.

All in all it was a decent performance. I actually thought Montolivo did a good job in midfield. Well, lets say he was his typical self. Until he's taking over games at club-level, don't expect too much from him. I do like the way he nips at the ball unexpectedly from his opposite number, dispossessing them.

I also think Italy would be better off employing a 4-4-1 with Di Natale operating behind the CF in a supporting role. He has the guile, dynamism and passing ability to do well in the role. Maggio as a right midfielder, alternating with Camo and Pepe. I would like to see how well Palombo and De Rossi would do as midfield partners with De Rossi slightly forward and Palombo in a holding role.

Was good seeing the Dortmund duo of Valdez and Barrios performing well on the int'l stage. Barrios in particular was a handful. Wasn't expecting much from Valdez, he makes Cavani look like RvN in the way he scuffs his shots :LOL: But he gave Chellini enough of a hard time which is always good.
 
Re: World Cup 2010 - The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri!

I think Pepe was the MOM too, I've never seen him stop °-°
 
Re: World Cup 2010 - The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri!

Milanista said:
Ben, this is why I don't agree with Lippi cutting Jack Sparrow aka Borriello. He does what I consider to be a target striker that holds possession even though he will always be outnumbered but in the same time is strong enough to create his own chances.
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there's no such thing as a striker who can handle an entire defensive line just by himself, hold possession, turn around and then create a scoring chance for himself (without any midfielder or winger helping him). i don't think such a player has ever existed in the history of the game.... sure i never saw such a player in my life.
and sure borriello can't do that. he's gonna get the pass, hold possession, but he's not gonna turn to the goal line, dribble 2 cbs (who only have to look after him) and score.
yeah something like that might even happen, once or twice (in a season).... but that's luck. u can't make a scheme out of this.
as a matter of fact milan used to do much better till pato was fit... as pato's presence took some pressure (and pressing) away from borriello's shoulders . milan was a title contender as long as borriello and pato were playing together. then pato got injured, borriello found himself alone and milan began to drop points on a weekly basis.

and toni wouldn't make a difference either. not even the best toni (the fiorentina toni), nevermind the current one. do u guys remember 2 years ago in the euro cup. we used to complain about the fact toni couldn't score...but even then, it wasn't his fault.... he was alone out there... and no one can be expected to hold possession AND score.

let's just revise the elements of dribbling shall we? what makes a dribbling more or less challenging?
how do u get the ball - if u get the ball on the movement (while you're running) it will be much harder to stop u for the defender. if u get the ball from a standing position instead, things are much more complicated for u, coz u have no inertia. u're gonna have to stop the ball and pick a side (where to go? left or right of your marker?) that will give more time to your marker. and it will be a lot easier for your marker to read your body's movement (your shoulders especially) and figure out wich side u're about to pick, when you're standing.
what's your position when u get the ball. are u watching the goal or are u with your back to the goal. coz if u're watching the goal, then u're also watching your markers. and u also won't have to turn around. but if u're with your back to the goal, then u'll hardly be able to even try a dribbling. not only coz u can't see your marker.... not only coz u're gonna have to turn around (wich will give a hint to your marker about where u're gonna run to).... but also because u'll be receiving the ball from a standing position (as a matter of fact when a striker plays with his back to the goal, he can't be running towards the goal while he's receiving a pass.... unless his knees can rotate backwards).
dribbling after getting the ball while standing with your back to the goal is almost impossible. your marker has too much advantage. he's watching u, while u can't watch him (the only thing u can do is to body check him.... if he's stupid enough to let u do it). he will already know where u will run with the ball the second u make a movement with your shoulders, even before u actually manage to turn around.

if u try to do that in a football school, the coach is gonna yell at u. because it's wrong to even try to dribble in such a situation. if u're playing with your back to the goal, u gotta hold possession and give it to an upcoming midfielder or winger. and then u can try to turn around and make yourself available for a pass (that's what one-twos are for, to get around this kind of situations).

and mind u that's when u only have one marker on your ass! if u have 2 cbs on u (coz you're the only striker in the line up), then u won't even get to touch the ball. one defender will stay behind u on marking, while the other one mill make a diagonal and intercept the pass before u get the ball.
and even if the defenders are complete dummies who can't even perform a diagonal cut.... well they will just stay behind u, one on the left and one on the right, so wherever u decide to turn, u will face a tackle even before u can actually see the defenders.

long story short... dribbling a cb when receiving the ball on the movement - normal procedure (if u can't do that, u just can't dribble)
dribbling a cb after getting the ball from a standing position - very challenging. it takes a terrific ball control and dribbling technique to pull that off.
dribbling a cb while being with the back to the goal and receiving the ball from a standing position - that's something u should try only if the cb is so close to u that u can body check him. in this case u can decide where to turn (right or left) according to his position (turning yourself around will be the dribbling itself). otherwise u're not supposed to even try to turn around. that'd be a mistake. just wait for an upcoming teammate and pass the ball.
dribbling 2 cbs while being with the back to the goal and receiving the ball from a standing position - that's just ridiculous. it might even happen sometimes, when u're lucky enough (and u need a lot of luck to pull that off) but u certainly can make a scheme out of luck.

this is not a matter of players, because no striker in the world can do what u're expecting gila to do (or what we expected toni to do 2 years ago) villa can't do it.... torres can't, ibra can't, rooney can't, milito can't..... hell not even ronaldo could (i mean the brazilian one), and he's probably the best striker i'v ever seen in my life.

get the pass, stop it, turn around, dribble 1 defender (from a standing position), dribble another defender, shoot and score. maybe it's possible to pull this off in a videogame.... but in real life? come on.... why don't we just blindfold gilardino, while we're at it.... u know, just to make things a little more challenging! :D

i strongly believe we need to line up 2 strikers... marchisio is completely useless in that role, so we might just bench marchisio and give a starting spot to di natale. that's not gonna change this team into a world beating, but still, it'll be an instant improvement.
rfu said:
Actually, the exact same thing occurs to me whenever I watch De Rossi. Seriously, the last thing Italy need is another defensive minded central midfielder.
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u gotta be out of your mind to say that after yesterday's match. that "defensive minded central midfielder" (i really wouldn't just call daniele likt that though) is the only italian player who scored yesterday.
that "defensive minded central midfielder" this season scored more goals than most of the trequartistas on the planet.
snejder (who arguably was the best trequartista in europe this season) score 8 goals..... daniele scored 11 goals (and de rossi doesn't take penalties or free kicks like snejder).
how many metodistas in europe scored as much as he did this season? no one... hell there aren't even many trequartistas or inside forwards who scored as much as daniele (especially if u take into account he doesn't take penalties).
seriously mate what's your problem with de rossi? u always aknowledge he's an awesome player, but then right after, u always complain about him. i just can't understand this. questioning de rossi as a central midfielder is pretty much like questioning milito as a cf, or questioning snejder as a trequartista.... or questioning samuel as a cb..... it just doesn't make sense to me :ANX:

i mean, how can u possibly say "that's the same i feel about de rossi". seriously if there's something daniele doesn't need is more personality!! he could actually gift half of his "guts" and personality to montolivo (who certainly could use that) and still remain one of the most charmismatic, leading midfielders on the planet.

and please mate don't tell me "yeah but he should direct the tempo of the plays " again.... he's a metodista! that's not his job. the fact that he could do that doesn't mean that he should do that.
u have to judge every player by his role. goalkeepers have to avoid goals, registas are supposed to build the plays, defenders are supposed to stop forwards and forwards are supposed to score.
u don't say "yeah buffon is damn good keeper, but he just doesn't score enough goals imo", do u?
daniele today is a mediano metodista. the very best in the world... and if it wasn't for cambiasso he would be the best in the world by a huge distance too! so just judge him for what he's supposed to do.
 
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Re: World Cup 2010 - The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri!

lo zio said:
seriously mate what's your problem with de rossi?
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:LOL: that's more like it.

I thought I had explained myself clearly earlier on but evidently not. Okay then, how to put it, hmm... Okay you say De Rossi is a mediano, basically a defensive midfielder or a 5th defender, whose role is essentially to hound and break up plays. Agreed. And De Rossi is world class at this, without a doubt. Now, my "problem" is simply that, particularly in this day and age, Roma and Italy cannot afford to have a player of De Rossi's calibre, pigeon-holed into that one role alone. This is De Rossi in a nutshell:

tackle or intercept a pass, look up, and make a quick, simple pass to the nearest team mate.

Now that's fine, if De Rossi was such a limited player, but you and I both know he's capable of so much more.

What do I expect from De Rossi or a modern Mediano? Look at Motta and Cristiano Zanetti. Hell, even Ambrosini. Fuck it, Gattuso in that recent friendly when he played like he just earned his first cap :LOL:. They don't just tackle the shit out of players, they hold possession, initiate plays, distribute, run into space, they don't merely complement the offensive players, they compensate. So when either Pirlo or Montolivo or Pizarro is playing shit, Raineri or Lippi wouldn't have to worry too much over who will provide in midfield.

This way of thinking applies to most positions, I think. You have to be versatile to a degree. CBs no longer tackle and then thump the ball out of harms way. One of the two is expected to carry the ball forward into the midfield initiate things (hence why Cordoba was dropped immediately in favor of Lucio). Mezzala and Trequartistas are expected to track back, full backs are expected to venture forward and provide width... One dimensional players just don't fit in modern day football and are being weeded out (unless they are too effective at what they do e.g. Mascherano).

lo zio said:
i mean, how can u possibly say "that's the same i feel about de rossi". seriously if there's something daniele doesn't need is more personality!! he could actually gift half of his "guts" and personality to montolivo (who certainly could use that) and still remain one of the most charmismatic, leading midfielders on the planet.
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What I mean by "personality" is a player who looks to exert more of an influence over the game, according to his ability. C. Zanetti versus Liverpool for example. Maybe my interpretation is wrong but that is what I meant. De Rossi by no means had a bad game yesterday (or in fact this season, from what I saw) but don't you agree that Italy need him to do a tad more in midfield? The ball in bouncing up, down and all over the place in midfield because no one wants the ball, it's like watching pinball bouncing about :LOL: (not necessarily a bad thing so long as the ball is progressing toward the oppositions goal).

lo zio said:
u gotta be out of your mind to say that after yesterday's match. that "defensive minded central midfielder" (i really wouldn't just call daniele likt that though) is the only italian player who scored yesterday. that "defensive minded central midfielder" this season scored more goals than most of the trequartistas on the planet.
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I don't like these kind of comparisons. Nope, not at all. Materazzi has amassed more goals in one season than Cossu has in his entire career at Cagliari. What does that tell us? And that goal... well... I guess a goal is a goal no matter how it goes in :COOL:
 
Re: World Cup 2010 - The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri!

rfu said:
I don't like these kind of comparisons. Nope, not at all. Materazzi has amassed more goals in one season than Cossu has in his entire career at Cagliari. What does that tell us?
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it doesn't really tells us anything, as soon as u put things in perspective. almost every goal materazzi scored in his carreer comes from a header on a free kick or a corner kick. i explicitly remarked how all de rossi's goal came from actual plays, precisely to put things into context.
anyway i don't like theese comparisons too..... but u were the one who called de rossi a "defensive minded midfielder", so i had to show u how wrong is this label. and numbers never lie. daniele is an all around midfielder, who is now deplyoed as a metodista (wich is something more than a simple defensive midfielder or a mediano).... and despite being asked to (just) play as a metodista, he still scores more than most of the trequartistas in the world (yeah i know lampard, gerrard and hamsik scored more than de rossi this season.... but how many of their goals came from penalties and free kicks??). and let me reimind that daniele plays 20 meters behind a trequartista's position.
Okay you say De Rossi is a mediano, basically a defensive midfielder or a 5th defender
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Now that's fine, if De Rossi was such a limited player, but you and I both know he's capable of so much more.
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What do I expect from De Rossi or a modern Mediano...don't just tackle the shit out of players, they hold possession, initiate plays, distribute, run into space, they don't merely complement the offensive players, they compensate. So when either Pirlo or Montolivo or Pizarro is playing shit, Raineri or Lippi wouldn't have to worry too much over who will provide in midfield.
One dimensional players just don't fit in modern day football
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oookay, first things first; daniele is not a simple mediano. he's a mediano metodista, wich is about the most important player in the spine of a team (for a description of the difference between medianos and metodistas, read the last part of this post; http://forums.evo-web.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1685952&postcount=3242 )

having said that, in your post u said that, since u know what de rossi is capable of (clearely referring to the first part of his carreer when he was an inside forward a la gerrard), u expect much more from him..... then u said u expect him to get much more involved in the plays whenever he's not paired up with a pure regista.

i can reply by saying i think we're talking about 2 different players. because the de rossi i see playing is the most decisive midfielder in europe today. i can't think of another midfielder (expect pure registas, of course) who is more involved in the construction of his team's plays (italy and roma) than daniele. the only central midfielder in europe today (who is not a regista) who is involved in the plays as much as daniele (not more than daniele) is Schweinsteiger (but then again, bastian doesn't get involved to the defensive phase of the game as much as daniele).

i mean just look at the paraguay's match. he was involved in every scoring chance italy built!! almost every play went through his foot.... he carried the entire midfield just by himself (although pepe tracked back a lot) and guided the midfield much more than montolivo (we can definitely say that daniele was italy's regista against paraguay and not montolivo as daniele built almost all our plays). he made some staggering wide openings on the sides. and i can remember at least 3 very dangerous runs with the ball on his feet.
didn't u noticed that crazy 30 meters run (from the midfield line to the box) and the 2 players dribbled on the way?

daniele does hold possession, does build plays (whenever pirlo isn't there to play), does provides runs, and he also scores.
and, if that's still not enough, he became the leader of the team. as a matter of fact today de rossi is considered by his teammates the voice of the team (along with cannavaro).
there are plenty of older, more experienced players in our team..... and sure italy doesn't lack of charismatic leaders (cannavaro, gattuso, buffon, just to name a few), and yet daniele is already consider the charismatic leader of italy.

so, like i said, we must be watching 2 different players. if to u daniele is a one dimensional defensive midfielder, to me daniele is the most complete and versatile midfielder in the world. a player who started his carreer as an inside forward (and became in 3 years one of the very best in the world in that role.... although not THE best), then changed his role to metodista, and in 3 years mastered this new role aswell (this time yes, becoming the best in the world in this role).
he's a central midfielder who has the taclking technique and the positioning of a world class mediano, the passing game of an inside forward (just look at the passes he sprayed all along the pitch vs paraguay), the stamina and the strenght of a doped horse, the shooting technique and the heading of a cf and enough personality to make him a true leader.

can u name another midfielder as complete as him? cristiano zanetti is a sweet passer, but do u think he has daniele's strenght and stamina? or his shooting? or his heading?
ambrosini has a nice heading and a great positioning, but do u think he can pass the ball like de rossi?
essien is a fantastic all around midfielder (and probably he's as close as u can get to de rossi).... but the only departments where essien is on par with daniele are strenght and stamina. essien can't pass like daniele, he can't tackle like daniele, his positioning (his defensive positioning especially) is nowhere near daniele's one and he can't match daniele's shooting accuracy nor his ball control.

can u name 1 player who can do all the things daniele does better (or at least as good as) daniele himself. just name me 1 midfielder who is more complete and who has a bigger impact on his team, and i'll say "okay, u're right when u say we should expect more from de rossi". :))
 
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Re: World Cup 2010 - The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri!

Abhishek said:
Steven Gerrard :P
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nice try :DD

word on streets is we should line up 2 forwards for the next game. :))

anyhow isn't there any paraguayan fella who wants to comment the match? i got to say i really liked paraguay. they looked very composed and disciplined.. almost like a capello team. martino did a pretty good job imo :))

edit:
apparently buffon might be out for the rest of the competition.
 
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Re: World Cup 2010 - The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri!

That sucks big time!! But I think he will be back. I'm optimistic.
 
Re: World Cup 2010 - The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri!

missing buffon would obviously be a huge blow, but since marchetti will take his spot, i can't say i'm really worried :))

btw, i just noticed yesterday was the 40th anniversary of the so called "game of the century".
Italy 4–3 West Germany (1970) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:M%C3%BCller_header_Mexico_1970.jpg" class="image"><img alt="" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e2/M%C3%BCller_header_Mexico_1970.jpg/220px-M%C3%BCller_header_Mexico_1970.jpg"@@AMEPARAM@@en/thumb/e/e2/M%C3%BCller_header_Mexico_1970.jpg/220px-M%C3%BCller_header_Mexico_1970.jpg

i think what really made this match the most epic in the history of the game is the fact that it really didn't (and doesn't) matter which team won it. we might say germany won it (although they didn't :P ) just as much as italy. coz it's the game that made history, not the result or the winner. the match itself became more important than everything else, more important than the players (even though there were lots of legendary players on both sides), more important than the outcome, even more important than what was at stake (a world cup final).

i can't find a pic of kaiser franz with the bandage on his arm. if any of u guys find it, send me a link :))
 
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Re: World Cup 2010 - The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri!

I finally have a cool story for you Ben. Karl-Heinz Schnellinger... the one that scored the equalizer. I used to live in Milano Due, where loads of 'famiglia Milan' live, and when I was about 13 I was walking to the park with my football, which I accidentally kicked into a grass patch. A huge dog ran towards my ball and was hogging it... was pretty scary... then Schnellinger walked over and heard me speaking in English, saying that there was nothing to worry about and that the dog (his pet) was very calm, he then kicked the ball over to me and told me to enjoy playing football.
 
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Re: World Cup 2010 - The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri!

:CONFUSE: WOW, u got a pass from schnellinger! now that's impressive. did u realise who he was? being a milan fan, i suppose u did, despite being just a kid. :))
 
Re: World Cup 2010 - The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri!

I only knew because I had the super album panini which had stuff from 1960 (or something like that) to 2000, and my dad was with me (he's a Milan fan since birth) to tell me. We're pretty sure it was him, blonde, blue eyes, speaks english with an accent.
 
Re: World Cup 2010 - The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri!

lo zio said:
mmmh, i disagree with that mate. for quality and tradition italy is one of the best schools in the world. in order to become an italian legend, u have to be an all-time world-wide legend. just look at those italian players who managed to become legend for italy... baggio, baresi, maldini, facchetti, riva, rivera, meazza, mazzola.
it would be much easier to earn the "legend status" playing for usa. let's take di natale, for instance. by our standards, he's a fantastic player, but definitely not an italian legend.... we have dozens of players as talented as him in pretty much every generation.
if he were american instead, he would be by far the greatest and most talented player in usa's history. he would definitely become a legend for them.

as for balotelli, choosing ghana would have been ridiculous. he's 100% italian. he was born in palermo and always lived in italy. i actually don't think he's ever even been in ghana.


sorry buddy, no harm intended :P
as for his choice, i don't think any of us can say what would have been best for him. he's quite a particulare case afterall.
he's clearely italian. let's leave aside the obvious things, like his name (giuseppe rossi is probably the most common name for an italian... pretty much like john smith for an american)... as soon as u hear him talking u realise he's 100% italian, the way he thinks, the way he talks.
but then again he's not just an italian who happened to born in america just coz his parents were there at that time... he also spent many years in usa, more years than in italy. so some might say he's at least as american as he is italian (and i would agree with that).
so, given the situation, it was just his call, as there wasn't a most appropriate pick between italy and usa.
he once said "i feel usa is my home just as much as italy, but i consider myself as an italian with a very deep relationship with usa..... and not asn an american with italian roots"

i am against foreigners playing with another country's jersey. not that i don't like integration, but the whole point of national teams football is showcasing your country's "products". having foreigners playing for your national team makes the whole idea of world cups and euro cups completely meaningless.
as a matter of fact i was against camoranesi joining italy (yeah he has italian roots, but that can be said about 60% of argentina's population.... even messi, cambiasso, zanetti, mascherano, di maria, milito and pastore have italian roots..... should we draft them all?!?)
but in giuseppe's case, i just can't see him as a foreigner with italian roots. he actually is italian.
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sorry mate but i think you fail to understand the american dream... or so its called.... a kid born in the usa to immigrant parents... this is common place in America and while not uniquely american, this type of situation is far more prevalent in the USA then in other countries.. as for him being the greatest and most talented usa player ever.... oh man has he really done that much to warrant that? i really dont think so... not yet anyways... or are you projecting? Honestly if a 12 year old kid from new jersey who's parents were not itailian went to italy at 12, then i think he would develop those cultural norms that rossi has as well... i dont think your born with those norms, you need to be taught them... if he stayed in jersey he probably would be singing born in the usa and driving a iroc z camarao and fist pump his way thru the club.... LOL i dont see the difference between him and camoresi...
 
Re: World Cup 2010 - The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri!

i think u misread my post mate. i didn't wrote rossi would be a legend in the american team. i used di natale as an example to highlight the different standards between italian football and american football (and what it takes to become a legend in italy as opposed as what would take to reach such status in usa). :))
gomito said:
Honestly if a 12 year old kid from new jersey who's parents were not itailian went to italy at 12, then i think he would develop those cultural norms that rossi has as well
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definitely not mate. what makes giuseppe "italian" is not the time he spent in italy. a good friend of mine was born in usa and moved to palermo with his parents when he was 8 (even before before than giuseppe then). he spent in italy more time, more years than i did (!), and yet, if u here him talking today, u just hear an american speaking some very fluent italian (he still can't pronounce many italian words correctly, like all those who contain "gl" like "aglio").
he is an american who knows italy even better than he knows america.... but still an american. that's how he feels and that's how his friends consider him.

what really made giuseppe an italian is the education he got from his parents. and i can tell this coz, in some way, i did experience this situation myself. i am a palermitano who was educated by a napoletana mother (napoletana means "from napoli"). my mother never taught me anything about "being a napoletano" of course, but living with her i unconsciously absorbed many aspects of her character, of her way to approach life (a napoletano is very different from a siciliano). i was 50% napoletano even before i first went to napoli, even before i actually got to know napoli, even before i could realise what being a napoletano is about. and as a result of the education i got, today i consider myself a palermitano AND a napoletano at the same time (i guess beppe feels the same about italy and usa)

the same way giuseppe was already 50% italian even before he came in italy. it was his education.

and that's the difference between him and camoranesi. mauro wasn't born in italy, he wasn't raised by italian parents. he's an argie who spent many years in italy, that's all.... yeah he has italian descent but that doesn't make him an italian as he probably never even met his italian ancestors.
it's pretty much like your situation. i remember u once told me u had sicilian ancestors, but i'm fairly sure u consider yourself 100% american, don't u? :))
i can guarrantee, if your parents were sicilians, then u would consider yourself an american and an italian at the same time.... and in the same measure, even without living in italy.

and our friend stefano here is another good example of what i'm talking about. he's a "man of the world". perhaps he didn't even spend half of his life in italy (did u stef?). and yet he's italian. it's not the time he spent in italy that made him an italian... it's the education he got, the people he grew up with, the way he was raised that made him an italian (fell free to correct me if i'm wrong ste ;)) ).

however don't get me wrong (i suggest u read again my previous post, as i guess u didn't really get my message), i'm not saying giuseppe is italian and not american.
i said giuseppe is as italian as he is american, hence where to play it's entirely up to him.
there's no unappropriate choice in this case (while it is unappropriate for an argentinian player like camoranesi to play for italy).:))
milanista said:
I only knew because I had the super album panini which had stuff from 1960 (or something like that) to 2000, and my dad was with me (he's a Milan fan since birth) to tell me.
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it must have been quite an emotional moment for your dad then!
 
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Re: World Cup 2010 - The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri!

FORZA AZZURRI!!!!! Today is vital, lets get the 3 points!!!

Dieci minuti prima di entrare in campo, sto lì con la testa china, cerco il massimo della concentrazione, poi l'allenatore mi dice le ultime cose, già le so, me le ha dette 100 volte. Le ho pensate 1000. Poi c'è il rito, ogni squadra ha il suo, un urlo forte e siamo pronti, adesso ci siamo, adesso andiamo fuori, adesso andiamo a vincere.
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- Beppe Bergomi
 
Re: World Cup 2010 - The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri!

This should be a cakewalk. Time for the WC goal average to be boosted.

I don't think the Azzurri will underestimate the All Whites after the Confederation Cup clash last year and should walk this one.
 
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