World Cup 2010 - The Italy Thread - Prandelli!!!

[Zeem]

Re: World Cup 2010 - The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri!

Bumped Borriello didn't make it. Still Gilardino and Pazzini will be enough. Di Natale also ofcourse

Nice article here. This guy predicted what the 2010 squad will be from august 2006. See what he got right.

http://football-italia.net/blogs/al140.html

 

[*aLe]

Re: World Cup 2010 - The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri!

FORZA AZZURRIIIII!!​

Not the best squad we could have, huh?
Don't get me wrong, I'm happy for some players that truly deserve it (Maggio, il Monto, Chiellini) even if I would have called Balzaretti instead of Bocchetti.
No Borriello, well, it was somehow predictable..


But no Giuseppe Rossi either, after the Confed Cup he played and after such a good season?
And no Cassano after having carried Sampdoria to CL all by himself?
No, Lippi, seriously, WTF?

Anyway, provided the 23, I hope to see this formation, even if I know Lippi will NEVER drop Cannavaro:

                 Gilardino
       Di Natale

              Pirlo
     Gattuso DeRossi Palombo

Criscito                   Maggio
         Chiellini Bonucci

              Buffon

 

[Milanista]

Re: World Cup 2010 - The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri!

Our lineup vs Mexico right now:


==========Buffon==========
Zambrotta-Bonucci-Canna-Criscito
------------------------------
--------Marchisio-De Rossi-------
-------------Pirlo--------------
-----Di Natale------Iaquinta------
-------------Gila---------------
------------------------------

 

[Milanista]

Re: World Cup 2010 - The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri!

Man, we are really lacking ambition right now. This time 4 years ago we were beating Germany 4-1 and Holland 3-0. Now we can barely put any shots together. Same as against Cameroon. I think we are going to have a 2002 France style WC.

 

[sonoman]

Re: World Cup 2010 - The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri!

we'll beat you tomorrow !

told ya. 2-1


to be fair it was a really poor Italy performance

 

[Leo Bax]

Re: World Cup 2010 - The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri!

Man, we are really lacking ambition right now. This time 4 years ago we were beating Germany 4-1 and Holland 3-0. Now we can barely put any shots together. Same as against Cameroon. I think we are going to have a 2002 France style WC.

Holy words!

 

[rfU]

Re: World Cup 2010 - The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri!

i put tonight's result on the fitness of the players. As lippi pointed out, mexico are well ahead in terms of fitness and preparation. So no wonder Italy couldn't keep up. Nevertheless if I were Lippi I would be very worried. I don't think a 3 man midfield suits Italy because their midfield lacks vigor and speed. What's more, Pirlo is no good under pressure. He thrives in a team where there are other 'possession' midfielrs who look to dwell on the ball a moment (like Seedorf). Otherwise, once hassled and harried, Pirlo is well neutralized. And there in lies my problem with De Rossi. Pirlo is too over burdened in midfield, the pace of the game has risen considerably, Pirlo can't be expected to hold possession alone in midfield without being crowded off the ball. De Rossi has the build, above average passing and technique, all he needs to do is exert himself. Instead the ball "pin-balling" about in midfield, De Rossi should be willing to carry it a few meters and give others the chance to makes some runs off-the-ball.

Perphaps a 4-4-2 (or 4-4-1-1) might a more suitable formation for italy. A 3-man midfield affords the opponents wide men too much space and time. A team like the USA could easily run Italy ragged and we all know how good Cannavaro is in 1v1 situations. If I could turn back the clock:

Zambrotta -- Bonnucci -- Chellini -- Balzeratti
Maggio -- D'Ago -- De Rossi/-- Grosso
Palombo
-- Cassano --
-- Pazzini --

 

[Aboutreika18]

Re: World Cup 2010 - The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri!

The only thing that will probably prevent this from being a repeat of France '02 is the easy group you have.

Lippi's a legend but I eagerly await the Prandelli era. He should have been appointed immediately after Donadoni's departure. Lippi's will probably ruin his legacy by coming back. He shouldn't have made the same mistake as Sacchi.

 

[zerovector]

Re: World Cup 2010 - The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri!

I agree that a 3 man midfield might not work for Italy but I would like to see an experimental 3-5-2/3-6-1/3-4-3 formation from Lippi's side against Switzerland. It could turn out to be a disaster... but with Gattuso in the squad, might as well utilize his energy if he's fit. A couple of Italian sides play with wing backs and I think Criscito and Maggio played in that position a few times this season.

		 Buffon

	
	Bonucci Cannavaro Bochetti


Maggio				    Criscito
  	 	     
  |  	  	 Palombo		|
  |	   	 	           	|
  |	Gattuso		  De Rossi	|
  |					|

		Di Natale

		Gilardino

or

		 Buffon


	Bonucci Cannavaro Bochetti



Maggio	  Pirlo	    De Rossi	 Criscito



     Iaquinta   Gilardino   Di Natale 
      /Pepe

or just cramp the midfield...

		 Buffon


Zambrotta   Bonucci   Bochetti  Criscito


	    Pirlo      De Rossi


Maggio          Montolivo        Marchisio


		Gilardino

 

[*aLe]

Re: World Cup 2010 - The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri!

		 Buffon


Zambrotta   Bonucci   Bochetti  Criscito


	    Pirlo      De Rossi


Maggio          Montolivo        Marchisio


		Gilardino

I like it!!
Except that I would never leave Chiellini out.. He's the best defender we have right now: screw Bocchetti, Chiellini all the way!!
Plus, maggio can prove far more dangerous in the position you put him in

 

[Aboutreika18]

Re: World Cup 2010 - The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri!

Marchisio would be wasted out wide like that.

Surely Di Natale, coming off his best goalscoring season to date, would be a better choice?

He's one of the few experienced players who actually deserves a starting place.

 

[zerovector]

Re: World Cup 2010 - The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri!

I like it!!
Except that I would never leave Chiellini out.. He's the best defender we have right now: screw Bocchetti, Chiellini all the way!!
Plus, maggio can prove far more dangerous in the position you put him in

He's definitely the best defender but I don't know if he's going to be fit against Switzerland.

Marchisio would be wasted out wide like that.

Surely Di Natale, coming off his best goalscoring season to date, would be a better choice?

He's one of the few experienced players who actually deserves a starting place.

I agree on Di Natale but we all know what he can offer. I was thinking of "giving" Marchisio the free-role for this friendly since we see little of him against Mexico.

What's the situation with Pirlo? Shame if he's out...

 

[Milanista]

Re: World Cup 2010 - The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri!

I'll be honest. I think Pirlo out can be good for Italy, no disrespect to the guy, but we rely far too much on his ability. Against Mexico he just huffed and puffed while getting closed down all game long, which also showed as Italy couldn't even string together 5 passes to attack. I want to see someone like Montolivo play.

 

[rfU]

Re: World Cup 2010 - The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri!

I'll be honest. I think Pirlo out can be good for Italy, no disrespect to the guy, but we rely far too much on his ability. Against Mexico he just huffed and puffed while getting closed down all game long, which also showed as Italy couldn't even string together 5 passes to attack. I want to see someone like Montolivo play.

I'm also glad Pirlo's out. But really, Lippi should have used the confed to experiment with players like Montolivo and Palombo as possible replacements for Pirlo (and even De Rossi). Now he's effectively throwing them into the deep end.

Marchisio out on the left is semi-free role position could work. More so than Di Natale doesn't have the legs any more (with Udinese he drifts in centrally and doesn't worry too much about tracking back)

 

[lo zio]

Re: World Cup 2010 - The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri!

mmmmh
so we're already showing up with a very questionable squad.... now we might miss our most talented player (well, at least the most talented player in the squad lippi picked)... a midfielder who would be a starter in any other midfield on the planet..... and u're glad?

u guys must be nuts!

 

[YoungGun_UK]

Re: World Cup 2010 - The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri!

He wouldn't get into Barcelona or Spains

 

[Aboutreika18]

Re: World Cup 2010 - The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri!

mmmmh
so we're already showing up with a very questionable squad.... now we might miss our most talented player (well, at least the most talented player in the squad lippi picked)... a midfielder who would be a starter in any other midfield on the planet..... and u're glad?

u guys must be nuts!

Ben, we're in 2010 now.

 

[lo zio]

Re: World Cup 2010 - The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri!

mmm, age is not an issue. pirlo is just 6 months older than xavi. he's a regista, and 30 years for a regista aren't that much. registas usually keep performing at their top level until 34.
the thing is pirlo has been regarded as a top class regista for much longer than xavi, so people tend to think he's way older than he actually is.

as for your point younggun, he would definitely be a starter in guardiola's barca. guardiola seems to prefere another passer (busquets) to a defensive midfielder (yaya). now i disagree with guardiola on this concern... but there's no doubt pirlo would win the matchup with busquets and make the starting formation in barca.

concerning spain, he'd have to compete with xavi to make the starting 11.... and right now i wouldn't pick pirlo over xavi..... but let's look at things in perspective... what's barca's best assett? off the ball movement. iniesta, keità, busquets, toure, messi, pedro, maxwell, alves.... they ALL move without the ball to make themselves a good target for xavi... and that obviously makes things a lot easier for a God like xavi.
what's milan's main issue, on the other hand? the total lack of movement without the ball, wich makes a great regista like pirlo completely useless.

i can't help but thinking that if pirlo and xavi were in each others' shoes, well xavi would struggle to put his talent to good use (having to deal with milan "statues"), while pirlo would still be regarded as the best regista in the world.

anyway, that's just an assumption and i can't prove it, so let's stick to the facts. xavi has done better than pirlo over the last 2 years, hence should be regarded as the best regista in the world (i can certainly agree with that).
but that would still make pirlo the 2nd best regista on the planet...... certainly not the kind of player u wanna do without in a world cup.

 

[Aboutreika18]

Re: World Cup 2010 - The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri!

mmm, age is not an issue. pirlo is just 6 months older than xavi. he's a regista, and 30 years for a regista aren't that much. registas usually keep performing at their top level until 34.
the thing is pirlo has been regarded as a top class regista for much longer than xavi, so people tend to think he's way older than he actually is.

I dunno, Ben. Xavi's at his prime whereas Pirlo was at his best in the mid 00's. But it's hard to compare them since Xavi's in the best club side and national team around whereas Pirlo's in a two poor side, in comparison.

as for your point younggun, he would definitely be a starter in guardiola's barca. guardiola seems to prefere another passer (busquets) to a defensive midfielder (yaya). now i disagree with guardiola on this concern... but there's no doubt pirlo would win the matchup with busquets and make the starting formation in barca.

He's certainly a much better player than Busquets but Pirlo's declining physical attributes would make him useless in that role alongside Xavi and Iniesta. Busquets is tall and has decent strength which gives him the advantage, along with his much better defensive abilities. One on one, he's certainly better than Busquets but that's without putting it into context i.e. Barcelona's gameplan, there's certain things the DM does, like drop into CB when the full-back brings the ball forward, that Pirlo would be incapable of doing.

concerning spain, he'd have to compete with xavi to make the starting 11.... and right now i wouldn't pick pirlo over xavi..... but let's look at things in perspective... what's barca's best assett? off the ball movement. iniesta, keità, busquets, toure, messi, pedro, maxwell, alves.... they ALL move without the ball to make themselves a good target for xavi... and that obviously makes things a lot easier for a God like xavi.
what's milan's main issue, on the other hand? the total lack of movement without the ball, wich makes a great regista like pirlo completely useless.

i can't help but thinking that if pirlo and xavi were in each others' shoes, well xavi would struggle to put his talent to good use (having to deal with milan "statues"), while pirlo would still be regarded as the best regista in the world.

I definitely agree with that and I think it's sad we've yet to see the best of Pirlo when he should be at his peak because of circumstances that are out of his control.

anyway, that's just an assumption and i can't prove it, so let's stick to the facts. xavi has done better than pirlo over the last 2 years, hence should be regarded as the best regista in the world (i can certainly agree with that).
but that would still make pirlo the 2nd best regista on the planet...... certainly not the kind of player u wanna do without in a world cup.

I'm not convinced that the picks Lippi's made have the off-the-ball movement for Pirlo to exploit with his vision anyway, so I don't think he'll be a big miss in that regard as he won't be able to express his full talent if he played anyway. Look at the young, hungry talent Mexico have and their intellgence off the ball. If Pirlo had the likes of that around him he'd have a field day. I'm not questioning Pirlo's talent, I'm questioning the talent around him in that squad and since he's the focal point of that team, it greatly effects him. But maybe I'm underestimating the squad Lippi picked, I don't know.

 

[lo zio]

Re: World Cup 2010 - The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri!

But it's hard to compare them since Xavi's in the best club side and national team around whereas Pirlo's in a two poor side, in comparison.

exactly. as far as we know, pirlo might be in his prime right now... and we wouldn't even know it, given the static teammates he has to deal with.
a regista's prime usually goes from his 28th to his 32nd year. it's no science of course, but usually that's when registas give their best; xavi, pizarro, ledesma, alonso... they're all in their prime right now, and they're all in that 28\32 phase of their carreers.. and i could go on mentioning corini, liverani, de sisti, bulgarelli, redondo, giannini... they all gave their best in those 4 years between 28 and 32.
while vision and passing skills are natural talent u carry with yourself since you're a kid, coolness (wich is AS important as vision and passing for a regista) improves with age. besides registas aren't supposed to give a strong physical contribution to the game (in terms of runs and pressing), and their ankles aren't forced to that stress that usually creates problems to forwards, defensive midfielders and defenders.

i remember i had this very same conversation about pirlo being past his best exactly one year ago. just before the confederarions cup match vs usa, a friend of mine was making the point that pirlo is not the same player anymore, that our players rely too much on him and so on.
i replied by saying that he's in his prime right now and that his teammates are the real problem.... that we can't blame pirlo if his teammates don't make themselves available targets.... and that he was still 29.
less than 1 hour later andrea made the assist for rossi's goal... a stunning lob with his weak foot!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaAZimyU-8s

as soon as i'll see montolivo doing something like this, then i'll be the first to say "hell yeah, let monto take pirlo's place".

oh and as for that busquets point, don't take that seriously, i was just jocking by saying pirlo would make barca's starting 11... i meant to remark how crazy it is to line up busquets instead of yaya.

I'm not convinced that the picks Lippi's made have the off-the-ball movement for Pirlo to exploit with his vision anyway, so I don't think he'll be a big miss in that regard as he won't be able to express his full talent if he played anyway. Look at the young, hungry talent Mexico have and their intellgence off the ball. If Pirlo had the likes of that around him he'd have a field day. I'm not questioning Pirlo's talent, I'm questioning the talent around him in that squad and since he's the focal point of that team, it greatly effects him. But maybe I'm underestimating the squad Lippi picked, I don't know.

i perfectly understand your point, mate. and i'm also pretty sure that's what stefano and rfu had in their minds when they said they're glad pirlo might be out.
i agree, pirlo probably won't be able to do his magic (at least if we play like we've been playing in the last year), but that doesn't mean we'll be better off without him.
u see, the off the ball movement of the teammates is vital to a regista...... but if u don't line up a regista, then off the ball movement will be even more important coz the players' movement will be the only way to cope with the lack of a regista. just think at what happened to liverpool this season. they used to rely too much on xabi.... but now that he's gone their game is even more predictable, flat and static than before.

besides pirlo isn't just a regista. do u remember what i told u once in a pm about xavi and pirlo? i believe that, as a "pure regista", xavi is even better than pirlo. xavi has a better "sense of rhythm" he feels the flow of the game slightly better than andrea and he also loses possession less often than andrea, coz he always tries to keep it as simple as he can (and that's how a "pure regista's mind" works). he rarely tries anything fancy, coz he knows that's not what he's supposed to do. long story short, xavi was born as a regista.

pirlo is different on this concern. he wasn't born as a regista. he was born as a trequartista. that means that if he sees an opening for a bold move, he'll take his chances and risk it. that's the trequartista in him prevailing on the regista in him.

let me make an example. do u remember when 3 years ago barca was having that horrible season? the players were all unbelievably static (even more than milan players nowadays). well xavi kept doing his job.... coz that's his only way to conceive football..... and he failed miserably, coz obviously u can't do your job as a regista if your teammates don't help u.

that video i posted above instead, shows how pirlo reacts in this kind of situations. he couldn't find an open target for the whole 1st half, so, out of frustration, the trequartista in him suddenly woke up and and told him "oh fuck it! i'll do it myself".
usually when a regista doesn't find an open target upfront, he settles for a confortable, useless side pass (wich usually makes the situation even worse as it gives even more time to the opponent defensive line to adjust itself).
the good thing about pirlo is that in this kind of situation, he can also turn himself into a trequartista, beat his marker with a roulette and make the assist by himself.

so, when off the ball movement is an issue, having a player with pirlo's talent becomes even more important.

 

[Zeem]

Re: World Cup 2010 - The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri!

Pirlo is really a waste at Milan. Players just walk beside him when he has the ball so he tries to find Ronaldinho. Other thing he is great at is FK's and corner kick's. Ronaldinho took over those so we started noticing him even less. He can still blast some awesome long rangers and holds the ball amazingly.

Huge blow if he misses the whole tournament. A real match changer. The most creative player in the squad and his FK's and CK's can be very decisive.

 

[gomito#10]

Re: World Cup 2010 - The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri!

oh you really had to show rossi scoring against usa, LOL. what do you guys think of rossi.. i think possibly choosing italy might have been a mistake... it must have been hard for him, even he admits he has america in his heart. It was not like subotic(although he seems more like sour grapes then anything)

 

[PLF]

Re: World Cup 2010 - The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri!

The NJ kid may have America in his heart but I think Italy IS his heart! So I doubt he regrets it and if I were Lippi, I would've probably taken him to World Cup anyway.

He's young. He's very good and he has a big future.

I of course would've liked to see him in that US team yesterday though. He would pose such big danger, more so than Altidore and the likes of Buddle and Findley and make US an even more completely/dangerous team.

 

[Leo Bax]

Re: World Cup 2010 - The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri!

Rossi chosed Italy for the same reason Balotelli refused Ghana: with USA or Ghana you can become a great player (like Essien) or a good player (like Donovan), but with Italy you can be remembered forever.
Rossi did the best choice, it's not his fault if Lippi preferred Quagliarella...

 

[Milanista]

Re: World Cup 2010 - The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri!

Not too sure I like the Italy line up for tonight.

Gazzetta says it will be like this:

--------------Buffon--------------
Zamb------Canna----Chiel----Criscito
---------------------------------
---------De Rossi--Marchisio--------
-------------Montolivo------------
---Pepe-------------------Iaquinta-
---------------Gila---------------
---------------------------------

I'd much prefer Di Natale than Iaquinta. Iaquinta seems to work best as a sub for Italy.... I think the defense is quite good, except Cannavaro obviously, but I feel he will have a good game tonight. I really feel that we lack creativity up front. Montolivo is good, but he's no Di Natale, Cassano or Pirlo.... Toto runs at players and has useful pace....

 

[Lami]

Re: World Cup 2010 - The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri!

Is Di Natale injured or something? I can't think why Lippi would leave him out.

 

[Leo Bax]

Re: World Cup 2010 - The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri!

@Milanista
Journalists are talking about a formation similar to your, but with Marchisio and Montolivo exchanged.

@Lami
We don't know, actually he's going to play with Pepe...

 

[Lami]

Re: World Cup 2010 - The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri!

Pepe + Di Natale would be better imo, plus whoever's upfront whether Gilardino, Iaquinta or Pazzini.

 

[Leo Bax]

Re: World Cup 2010 - The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri!

Maybe Lippi wants to use Di Natale in second half of match, instead of Iaquinta. Paraguay's sidebacks are not that good and maybe he wants to use Di Natale's technique and speed in second half when opposition are tired. Who knows...

 

[lo zio]

Re: World Cup 2010 - The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri!

Rossi chosed Italy for the same reason Balotelli refused Ghana: with USA or Ghana you can become a great player (like Essien) or a good player (like Donovan), but with Italy you can be remembered forever.

mmmh, i disagree with that mate. for quality and tradition italy is one of the best schools in the world. in order to become an italian legend, u have to be an all-time world-wide legend. just look at those italian players who managed to become legend for italy... baggio, baresi, maldini, facchetti, riva, rivera, meazza, mazzola.
it would be much easier to earn the "legend status" playing for usa. let's take di natale, for instance. by our standards, he's a fantastic player, but definitely not an italian legend.... we have dozens of players as talented as him in pretty much every generation.
if he were american instead, he would be by far the greatest and most talented player in usa's history. he would definitely become a legend for them.

as for balotelli, choosing ghana would have been ridiculous. he's 100% italian. he was born in palermo and always lived in italy. i actually don't think he's ever even been in ghana.

oh you really had to show rossi scoring against usa, LOL.

sorry buddy, no harm intended
as for his choice, i don't think any of us can say what would have been best for him. he's quite a particulare case afterall.
he's clearely italian. let's leave aside the obvious things, like his name (giuseppe rossi is probably the most common name for an italian... pretty much like john smith for an american)... as soon as u hear him talking u realise he's 100% italian, the way he thinks, the way he talks.
but then again he's not just an italian who happened to born in america just coz his parents were there at that time... he also spent many years in usa, more years than in italy. so some might say he's at least as american as he is italian (and i would agree with that).
so, given the situation, it was just his call, as there wasn't a most appropriate pick between italy and usa.
he once said "i feel usa is my home just as much as italy, but i consider myself as an italian with a very deep relationship with usa..... and not asn an american with italian roots"

i am against foreigners playing with another country's jersey. not that i don't like integration, but the whole point of national teams football is showcasing your country's "products". having foreigners playing for your national team makes the whole idea of world cups and euro cups completely meaningless.
as a matter of fact i was against camoranesi joining italy (yeah he has italian roots, but that can be said about 60% of argentina's population.... even messi, cambiasso, zanetti, mascherano, di maria, milito and pastore have italian roots..... should we draft them all?!?)
but in giuseppe's case, i just can't see him as a foreigner with italian roots. he actually is italian.