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WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread

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Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

Would be nicer if people banned here don't create a new nick and start to put the same crap again and again and again... :-s
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

winston said:
Great, so we can edit the ML structure and have a great game with 4 divisions!!



No.
Click to expand...

I respect your point, but I dont care a lot about ML since I play multiplayer with friends, not even online. So it is not a big deal for me, Mr. "more animations? Big Deal" :lol:
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

gomito#10 said:
jack i love how you pick and choose the shit to bitch about, for one, the german pc magazine said THE GAME PLAYED FANTASTIC! Your acting as if this game is FIFA and it needed wholesale changes to hte gameplay to improve the game, it didnt, the core gameplay is still AWESOME. It has flaws, that can be fixed. hopefully they fixed that, so these reviews saying the gameplay is the same is not a negative point to me. The fact that the german magazine said the game was FANTASTIC, says alot more. Please stop picking and choosing negative points and look at the entire picture. Wait till the game comes out and judge for yourself, i think the guys who dont play with friends or online are going to be dissapointed, but the guys who like multiplayer will be happy as always
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i agree, i dont even read jack bauers posts or djdoc, they go on and on about the same thing, its like konami owes them or something, just ignore them, thats what i do
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

great to hear an in-depth edit mode will be available, people who mentioned that mascherano looked too tall can now make him smaller!
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

danhammer said:
great to hear an in-depth edit mode will be available, people who mentioned that mascherano looked too tall can now make him smaller!
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beta mate, remember Deco look like a giant :)
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

lazavas said:
i agree, i dont even read jack bauers posts or djdoc, they go on and on about the same thing, its like konami owes them or something, just ignore them, thats what i do
Click to expand...

Don't put both of them in the same bag, JB adds to the discussion and does not insult anyone here...
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

Personally, I don't give a shit if the CPU cheats. I honestly play a little against CPU and when I do, I kick its ass. I want that deeper edit mode!
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

@ winston,

I actually find your posts excellently critical as you give great reasons why you arent happy with what you've seen or heard.

But the last one commenting on the large list is just plain negative and not seeing good additions for what they are.

IMO it seems you want to see the gameplay improved and the scripted gameplay done away with. Surely those sorts of things will only be found out by playing the game yourself?

Criticising for the sake of cristicising will get you no where, and it seems to me thats what you are doing.

We might not of heard things we want to hear right now (gameplay, master league, licenses etc), but the stuff that has been talked about so far is positive.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

gomito#10 said:
jack i love how you pick and choose the shit to bitch about
Click to expand...
I love how you forget that, after the screenshots were posted a few days ago, I said "I take back what I said - it looks great". I love how you forget that I went onto say I was really excited about it, for the first time. Then two games magazines come out and say the gameplay is the same, with added diving and with a few tweaks (which sounds very familiar to me - if you're happy with that, or you think that what else the magazine had to say amounts to a great deal of gameplay changes - despite the fact that they then say the gameplay is the same - then great, you can think what you want and expect what you want, I'm not going to insult you).

I'm not even going to bother replying to everything else that's been aimed at me, at the end of the day nobody wants PES to be great more than I do. I just don't see it ever changing, and I don't see any of the things that have ever mattered to me (the core gameplay engine, the CPU's cheating disappearing, the amount of teams, the ML etc.) changing.

Putuco Malo said:
Don't put both of them in the same bag, JB adds to the discussion and does not insult anyone here...
Click to expand...
Thank you.
 
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Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

Putuco Malo said:
Personally, I don't give a shit if the CPU cheats. I honestly play a little against CPU and when I do, I kick its ass. I want that deeper edit mode!
Click to expand...

Again i take your point but even I from time to time like to sit down and engage myself against the CPU. Okay so the multiplayer/friends performance will surely always excel when it comes to the enjoyment but theres always room for improvement in terms of realism and just general enjoyment when you play against CPU.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

Adonis said:
@ winston,

I actually find your posts excellently critical as you give great reasons why you arent happy with what you've seen or heard.

But the last one commenting on the large list is just plain negative and not seeing good additions for what they are.

IMO it seems you want to see the gameplay improved and the scripted gameplay done away with. Surely those sorts of things will only be found out by playing the game yourself?

Criticising for the sake of cristicising will get you no where, and it seems to me thats what you are doing.

We might not of heard things we want to hear right now (gameplay, master league, licenses etc), but the stuff that has been talked about so far is positive.
Click to expand...
I have nothing to add to this. :)
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

Playing PES2 atm and just realised we actually had 3 divisions in ML... Only thing i have to play with the default ML players and start from D3 > D2 > D1. Well i hope Konami bring this back.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

Punzz said:
Again i take your point but even I from time to time like to sit down and engage myself against the CPU. Okay so the multiplayer/friends performance will surely always excel when it comes to the enjoyment but theres always room for improvement in terms of realism and just general enjoyment when you play against CPU.
Click to expand...

Sure, you get a point there... but I do not enjoy a lot playing against the CPU, at least not playing we/pes.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

Jack Bauer said:
I love how you forget that, after the screenshots were posted a few days ago, I said "I take back what I said - it looks great". I love how you forget that I went onto say I was really excited about it, for the first time. Then two games magazines come out and say the gameplay is the same, with added diving and with a few tweaks (which sounds very familiar to me - if you're happy with that, or you think that what else the magazine had to say amounts to a great deal of gameplay changes - despite the fact that they then say the gameplay is the same - then great, you can think what you want and expect what you want, I'm not going to insult you).

I'm not even going to bother replying to everything else that's been aimed at me, at the end of the day nobody wants PES to be great more than I do. I just don't see it ever changing, and I don't see any of the things that have ever mattered to me (the core gameplay engine, the CPU's cheating disappearing, the amount of teams, the ML etc.) changing.


Thank you.
Click to expand...
your going back and forth for no reason, why till the game comes out, then you can jump off a bridge :) peace to you to jack
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

winston said:
Here is how the average sceptic might look upon the list of supposed good points.

- Gameplay look the same Oh no! I'm sick of the same old gameplay. I want it to feel new, like a next-gen experience.

- Great collisions New animations? Big deal. I would interested if they said they fixed the scripted "loose" ball always goes to cpu player. Or if they fixed player collisions always resulting in your guy doing 3 spins away from the ball before falling, whilst the cpu guy is virtually unaffected.

- Many passing-animations Animations...big deal. Did they program a new passing control so we decide using analogue the power, trajectory and direction? That's the only news I want to hear about passing.

- Better ball protection (better collision)Collisions again?

- Better control for pass If they said full 360 control and pace control, I would be excited. Until they say that, I know passing will still be a scripted affair.

- Much better AI in very hard Even more cpu cheats than before?

- New slide tackle A new auto-animation. If the cpu decides when the new style high tackle occurs, then it is a new script, not a gameplay feature.

- The ball physique look more heavy They tinker with this every year. Next year they will doubtless announce the ball physics look less heavy as if this is good news.

- No more scripts, better control of the player No more scripts? If true, I will be utterly amazed, really. I think the chance of this being true is about 0%.

- GoalKeepers very realistic A rather nebulous comment.

- Amazing collisions These collisions must be good, now they've been mentioned 3 times.

- More and better lifelike animations Animations...big deal.

- Shooting is better/harder They tinker with this every year. What does better mean? Better than what? People used to complain the shooting was too hard, so they slowed it down. Now it's harder again. Round and round in circles we go. If they made shooting truly analogue, I would be excited. Shooting is still scripted. The cpu decides where the ball goes, not you.

- Gameplay and passing faster They tinker with this every year. Over the years, the game has speeded up, then slowed down, now speeded up again. Round and round.....pffff. The impact is purely subjective.

- Shirt pulling Is this something we can control? Or is this a scripted animation. Stinks of new cpu cheats.

- Diving Stinks of new cpu cheats.

- Kits that flow and crease as the players run aroundAnimations...big deal.

- Alot of new animationsAnimations...big deal.
Click to expand...

So, you dont like it?........ Big deal
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

How hard is it really to make a game like this?

It's interesting how the one person(Seabass)that creates this gem, gives the impression that his mind lacks ideas to implement into the game that will only make it better.

Can you imagine if someone else from this forum with all those great ideas creates a better futbol sim game such as this. Can you imagine how great the game would be with all this ideas included that all of us fans want. I wonder if this new developer would actually become lazy like seabass or not.

One day we shall have the perfect sim futbol game guys. If it's not this game which is well on it's way, hopefully someone out there will become a genius and create another one.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

The part of the article about making Hull's youth squad, surely you would only want do that with the ability to create entirely new teams... OPM trying to drop a hint, or am i just being an optimist?
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

Adonis said:
@ winston,

I actually find your posts excellently critical as you give great reasons why you arent happy with what you've seen or heard.

But the last one commenting on the large list is just plain negative and not seeing good additions for what they are.

IMO it seems you want to see the gameplay improved and the scripted gameplay done away with. Surely those sorts of things will only be found out by playing the game yourself?

Criticising for the sake of cristicising will get you no where, and it seems to me thats what you are doing.

We might not of heard things we want to hear right now (gameplay, master league, licenses etc), but the stuff that has been talked about so far is positive.
Click to expand...

Thank you.

The point of that post was to highlight the fact that, to someone like myself who has become increasingly cynical about this once awe inspiring game, the list of "good points" are a mixture of superficial gloss (all the animation type stuff which ultimately do not have a significant impact on gameplay) and feature "improvements" that read like the list of little tinkers they make every year.

Yes, there was deliberately negative reponse to every point (I was speaking from the point of view of a typical sceptic, as I explained at the start of the post), but the fact is that it was very easy to be negative about them all. I've become all too familiar with little sideways tinkers, mucking around with the game without making any substantial improvements, all too familiar with claims of things like "improved AI" actually turning out to be all too obvious cpu cheats.

The only points which, if I am wrong in my justified scepticism about them, are likely to have a notable influence on the actual gameplay experience are the ones about increased player control (apparently no more scripts) and better AI on very hard level. But I will only believe it when I see it when I genuinely have full control of my player 100% of the time and when improved AI doesn't involve cpu cheats.

It's for Seabass to prove me wrong. I sincerely hope he does.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

By the way the mag did not say they actually played the game..........i mean i can write that article with all the information posted here.

So nothing new I guess untill Leipizg where we'll see how this beauty is shaping up. But I have the feeling that famous team vision is some smoke to cover the lack of innovation in the past 3-4 years.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

Jack Bauer said:
Yes, but two magazines have said the same thing now. Of course, your opinion can differ, but if if the magazines aren't saying "it's crap" or "it's great", then there's obviously not a lot that's changed. The fact that they have both said that gameplay is the same shows that. It may not be the final version but they've got very little time left in games-making terms to make any massive changes. I'm sure most of that time will be tweaking the slowdown and adding any important transfers. Which isn't good enough for me. The last three or four PES games have all been way too similar, to me, and I'm not going to buy another version of the same game with very little improvement to the core gameplay (freedom of movement, more control over everything, non-cheating AI, more teams, more competitions, improved master league - that's what I want to see, more changes to the depth of the game than anything, and until I hear more about all of this I won't be buying the game).

By the way, I apologise; you're not a fanboy if you buy it and like it, if it's PES6 with better graphics. I just expect a lot more than that personally, and I won't be buying it if that's the case. But of course, you have every right to, and I respect your opinion (whether we differ or not, you speak English without being insulting, and I respect that).
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Jack you know that alot of these mag journo's just write bollocks,there are not into games,next job they'll be for "my pony' weekly..With their poor attempt at witt..a load of tosser's who don't play the bloody thing.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

winston said:
Thank you.

The point of that post was to highlight the fact that, to someone like myself who has become increasingly cynical about this once awe inspiring game, the list of "good points" are a mixture of superficial gloss (all the animation type stuff which ultimately do not have a significant impact on gameplay) and feature "improvements" that read like the list of little tinkers they make every year.

Yes, there was deliberately negative reponse to every point (I was speaking from the point of view of a typical sceptic, as I explained at the start of the post), but the fact it that it was very easy to be negative about them all. I've become all too familiar with little sideways tinkers, mucking around with the game without making any substantial improvements, all too familiar with claims of things like "improved AI" actually turning out to be all too obvious cpu cheats.

The only points which, if I am wrong in my justified scepticism about them, are likely to have a notable influence on the actual gameplay experience are the ones about increased player control (apparently no more scripts) and better AI on very hard level. But I will only believe it when I see it when I genuinely have full control of my player 100% of the time and when improved AI doesn't involve cpu cheats.

It's for Seabass to prove me wrong. I sincerely hope he does.
Click to expand...


Yeh I think the scripted elements need to be worked on. I personally dont have a problem with it as I mainly play multiplayer rather than against the computer, but I'm aware of the complaints people have.

I think regarding waiting for news from official sources, you'll never hear people comment on the scripts. Its something the magazines and websites usually fail to comment on. Im not sure whether its because they dont realise it in the game, or because they are just huge fans of the game and cant see Konami doing wrong.

I guess you really need to play it yourself. I hope the vids we get for you guys from Leipzig give you a true indication of what the games going to be about.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 07/27/07)

adonis u know back then u said there was something u cant tell us that wll affect gameplay can u only tell us if it has been said from all these articles 10x
 
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