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WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread

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Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/06/07)

If it really is leagues of only 10 teams, do they play each other 2 or 4 times per season? I asked my contact, but he did not know.

Playing each team 2 times would give only 18 matches per season, whereas 4 would give 36 - which is in line with how Scottish league works (although not SPL). Also, Austrian and Swiss leagues have only 10 teams but they might use weird splits and stuff, can't remember.

I would happily have 4 leagues of 10 so long as you play each team 4 times and there is still European competition including teams not in the 4 divisions, and also an FA Cup using all 40 teams.

Somehow, I fear this is going to be Konamied.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/06/07)

....such as the crowd - i.e. on the 360 they won't follow the ball, whereas on the PS3 they will.
Click to expand...

Great.

How difficult was it to add in a Champions League even if it carried a phoney name?
Why can't all leagues play simultaneously, and the top teams qualify to one other group league?
How difficult is that?
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/06/07)

Jack Bauer said:
Okay, I heard this from a new contact (long story) this evening, but when I came on here to report the news there was a certain piss-taker (again, no offence) who was posting something and claiming it to be true, which has caused a bit of confusion. He's also hinted at a few things that are untrue. So I would like to confirm a few things that I know of. Now this is information from a new contact, who I've known for a total of 24 hours, so I must admit (even though it shames me to say it) that I could be being wound up here, and my reputation is on the line with this lot (saying that, my reputation is "miserable ****" anyway, so it won't hurt it too much). But so far a lot of what I have to say has been said by Han. So make your own mind up. You are all individuals, it is up to you.

Okay, do you want the good news or the bad news first? I've gone through the trouble of adding spoiler tags so that you can choose for yourself. No need to thank me. I'm just good like that.

The good news:
+ The Master League has had a bit more than a makeover. I never thought I would see this in my lifetime. Now, at the start of the ML, you're assigned a sponsor. Most likely, because you've just started out in the lowest division, you'll be given a crappy sponsor that you would never want to see on your beloved team's kit. And by the way, it will appear on your team's kit (cool or what). But as time goes on, you'll be approached by better sponsors, and you can negotiate yourself some serious moolah. And when I say moolah, I mean actual money (well not actual money, you won't get £3m sent to your door, but we're not dealing in credits any more, we're dealing in ... Euros, which is a start - you would imagine Konami will add GBP before release but it's cutting it fine now).

+ Continuing the Master League news... YES, THERE'S MORE. There are now more than two divisions. The final number has not yet been decided on - the amount of teams in the game is a factor with this and it's being looked at - but currently it's between four and five. There are a number of empty slots which it's assumed are for the creation of new teams - this isn't definite though, and as of now there's only around 20. As with the number of ML divisions though, this could change.

+ With the stadium editor, you have so many tools to create your team's stadium. You can edit the type of the stands, the colour of the seats, the adboards AND, calling all net fans, yes, you can officially start masturbating, you can edit the nets (including, but not limited to, the colour and the shape). Personally though, I'm not into nets, I'm more into the pitches. Which is great because you can even choose your own pitch from a pretty large list. Apparently it will be very easy to create your team's stadium, down to the finest detail.

The bad news:
- The PC/360/PS3 versions aren't exactly the same. They almost are, but not exactly. It's assumed at the moment that the game-modes are the same across all versions, but after being shown the 360 and PS3 graphics in motion, it became apparent to my contact that the graphics on the PS3 are ever-so-slightly more detailed (they are both unfinished versions though so it could still change, but it's doubtable at this moment in time). Apparently it's only a few things that are different, such as the crowd - i.e. on the 360 they won't follow the ball, whereas on the PS3 they will.

- 360-degree movement was added - should be good news, right? Well not exactly. Seabass wasn't happy with the way it was working and so it was taken out again. God. Damn. It.

- The stadium editor only lets you create stadiums, not edit the ones already included with the game. Bit of a bastard when all you want to do is edit one adboard at the San Siro...
Click to expand...

Whaooh, you find it very quickly, i have the same informations few days ago but i have a little doutb because isn't from my friend contact this time, so if you confirm too :)
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/06/07)

Wouldn't be better if they just add a 3rd division made of 8 teams? i mean they had enough teams to do that. This 10 teams things ain't for me.

And give us minor leagues please, segunda, championship, serie B. We do not all support big teams.

But i am pretty sure they are gonna make it playble on line, which would indeed be an added value.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/06/07)

Why can't Konami just do what happens in real life. Give us loads of empty team slots, let as have many leagues as we want, 3 divisions for each league, and a proper competition like CL, as well as UEFA Cup. I still don't get how implementing all this can be difficult?
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/06/07)

Abhishek said:
Why can't Konami just do what happens in real life. Give us loads of empty team slots, let as have many leagues as we want, 3 divisions for each league, and a proper competition like CL, as well as UEFA Cup. I still don't get how implementing all this can be difficult?
Click to expand...

True bhai - they can't blame it on lack of disc space neither!
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/06/07)

Again, I think it's more a case of the Japanese don't want it, and the game is aimed primarily at their market. They love the ML as is, quick lower-league season, loads of fantasy elements, it's part of their culture. That's what they want and we come second (plus they don't listen to customer suggestions on games, that is their actual policy as written on their website, so they will never know that Europe doesn't like this system).
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/06/07)

Jack Bauer said:
Again, I think it's more a case of the Japanese don't want it, and the game is aimed primarily at their market. They love the ML as is, quick lower-league season, loads of fantasy elements, it's part of their culture. That's what they want and we come second (plus they don't listen to customer suggestions on games, that is their actual policy as written on their website, so they will never know that Europe doesn't like this system).
Click to expand...
That's not entirely true Jack. I was told that the reason they are behind with making this ML is that Konami Japan got feedback from Konami-Europe. Konami-Europe was not happy with some things and proposed changes. So now they are working on those changes. About the number of leagues: People might have forgotten that I wrote about 4 or 5 divisions. They are working at it.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/06/07)

But Han, they have to make a game for two continents and two majorly different cultures. So one continent will have to take sacrifices, and it's not going to be their primary market.

Unless of course there was a complete customisation option for all of the ML stuff so that you could set it up exactly the way you wanted it, which they'll never think of in a million years. :(
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/06/07)

Jack Bauer said:
Again, I think it's more a case of the Japanese don't want it, and the game is aimed primarily at their market. They love the ML as is, quick lower-league season, loads of fantasy elements, it's part of their culture. That's what they want and we come second (plus they don't listen to customer suggestions on games, that is their actual policy as written on their website, so they will never know that Europe doesn't like this system).
Click to expand...

You nailed it, Jack.
Unfortunally we have to live with the fact, that it's a Japanese game, made from Japanese programmers, mainly for the Japanese market.

For them it's a great thing to take all European Teams and mix them up in a fantasy league strucure. "Imagine: all top players and top clubs in only one league...."
...they missunderstood the term Champions "League"

They have the licenses for segunda division, and I think it would be no problem to get the second dutch division and Serie B.
(Bundesliga and Premier League is another cup of tea, though...)

My main concern, even if they change the league structures, is to play against first division (-> too strong) teams in a second or third division.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/06/07)

Han said:
That's not entirely true Jack. I was told that the reason they are behind with making this ML is that Konami Japan got feedback from Konami-Europe. Konami-Europe was not happy with some things and proposed changes. So now they are working on those changes. About the number of leagues: People might have forgotten that I wrote about 4 or 5 divisions. They are working at it.
Click to expand...

I've said something similar in an older post:
If I were a Konami-Europe employee I would go nuts, to sell a game not aimed for the European (and American) market.

But do you really think they can have an impact to the development?
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/06/07)

No doubt regardless of how realistic (or unrealistic) the structures are, the fantasy development model will still be unchanged meaning that Alan Smith becomes Maradona MkII.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/06/07)

Abhishek said:
Why can't Konami just do what happens in real life. Give us loads of empty team slots, let as have many leagues as we want, 3 divisions for each league, and a proper competition like CL, as well as UEFA Cup. I still don't get how implementing all this can be difficult?
Click to expand...

im not a programmer, but i dont think it is as simple as just adding more team slots. I guess from logic that to increase the total number of teams 80 or so to over 240 wiht all correct cups, CL, etc is quite difficult as it means re-writing the ML engine to work out the increased permutations for a huge dynamic database with AI built in so you get realistic results and not purely random events with a cpu controleed Tranmere winning the CL!
I would hazard a guuess that is ALOT of extra coding. Maybe konami want to do it and just want to lay down the foundations for a ML -lite this version thats doesnt have any bugs etc, and build it up to a full one next year???
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/06/07)

I think the new ML structure is great.
At first i was a litle disappointed but i still think that Konami are making the league structure of the future...some kind of NBA with all the biggest teams throughout Europe in one big league...
Of course, it would be better if there would be a full customizable ML...
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/06/07)

Is it really that hard to release a japanese game with their fantasy league structure and a european release with a realistic league structure?

May be i'm asking for too much
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/06/07)

Punzz said:
Is it really that hard to release a japanese game with their fantasy league structure and a european release with a realistic league structure?

May be i'm asking for too much
Click to expand...

No...
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/06/07)

Stan said:
I think the new ML structure is great.
At first i was a litle disappointed but i still think that Konami are making the league structure of the future...some kind of NBA with all the biggest teams throughout Europe in one big league...
Of course, it would be better if there would be a full customizable ML...
Click to expand...

The last thing i want is some sort of NBA. I like smaller leagues with real teams representing real cities. We are europeans not americans.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/06/07)

sounds great , the master league sounds more like let's make a socer team , by sega which has these elements , i usually edit the master leagye and place the top 4 from each league in div 1 and so on to make the div 1 the strongest, so all good news for me, also if they have the option in the pes shop to edit master league structure you should be able to customise it to your needs like jack said, lower division teams from your league and a great cup system like FA cup. real money wooooohoooo was asking for this for ages and sponsorship aswell. if people want real leagues they could do this in the league mode were you choose the league and include CL league. is'nt the master league mode made to be more of a struggle and develop a crap team , i.e. the default players option. every must like the great default players and play with them at start or does every one start with original team, as people i know like starting with the default team and lifting the club to success , the achievement feels better like that to me.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/06/07)

Jack Bauer said:
I love you.
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LOL - you deserve some positive news for a change!

I know thats the first thing you are going to do Bauer, choose Tranmere in the ML and work them up to be champions, battering Liverpool, Man U, Chelsea, Arsenal along the way!!
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/06/07)

I respect everyone's opinion but mine on the fact that we might have 4/5 divisions of 10 teams is that I'm really not happy at all.Playing (possibly) 18 matches in each division is way too short .I don't know with Konami ,one minute I feel excited that some great stuff is done and the very next I feel frustrated.It'd better to have 3 divisions with divion 2&3 having 10 teams each and division 1 20 teams. So much for a realistic ML structure
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/06/07)

Many things would instantly change about this game if it were directed at a European market.

I don't see why Konami isn't investing more in this direction. It's the biggest sport in Europe, and Konami would make millions if directed its attention towards the European market.

And the Japanese will back that move... no doubt. The game is easily dominating their market.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/06/07)

I still find it bizare that Sensible Software managed to squeeze nearly every league in the world on two DD disks on my old Amiga, using a (albeit rudimentary) transfer system and Konami en EA to this day still haven't found a way to include this on cd/dvd/bluray. I'm afraid I'll be waiting quite some years before I'm able to start a career with Veendam, move up to Manchester City, win the European cup and then return to the Netherlands as national manager and win the World Cup.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/06/07)

if people want real leagues they could do this in the league mode were you choose the league and include CL league. is'nt the master league mode made to be more of a struggle and develop a crap team
Click to expand...

Thats actually a really good point. If they have changed the normal league mode to also include a CL, which lets face it is very easy to do, you could have a proper seasons in one single full league with cup and CL and have the ML development/struggle mode. I mean most of the players only end up playing in div1 all the time anyway with the cups giving the alternative matches. Just adding the CL element into the league mode (which already has the cup games) seems a logical and simple way to appease the people who want to play that kind of mode. I know i enjoy playing the ML without the development on just so i can play the real squads.

As for the comment about how hard it would be to add teams into the ML with the AI and different permutations. They already have the engine, which doesnt actually change, just a bit more data to be processed. Im sure the league alreayd works with the skill level of teams and a certain amount of randomisation in results to create the league. Why would it be any different with some more teams?

And the comment about mostly playing in div 1 brings me to a problem with the new structure. After say 5/6 seasons you will be in the top division and probably have won the league and CL. What do we do then? do we end up playing mini seasons of 18games + cups ? Surely they would need to add a manager transfer feature to the game?
 
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Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/06/07)

Is the J-league in PES2008? May sound like a silly question, but seeing as Japan has had two updates (WE10JL and WE2007CC) since PES6, are they concentrating on a 'worldwide' release and will release a new J-league game in the future????
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/06/07)

I think that konami should make the master league structure like this. 6 simultaneous leagues (7 if Bundesliga is included)

Serie A, Premier League, Ligue 1, La Liga, Eredivisie, Rest of Europe, (Bundeliga) all as full leagues. Then you select which league you want to get up to e.g. Premier League

Premier League (20)
l
l
V
2nd division (12, top championship teams)
l
l
V
3rd division (12, lower championship teams)
l
l
V
4th division and 5th division (8 each, other English teams depending on who you like and maybe a few league 1 teams e.g. for me MK dons, Leeds and Leighton Town (my team :lol:))

And then have a cup for all leagues. Top 2 from lower divisions go up and then playoffs for 3-6. Bottom three from each league go down apart from the bottom league.

Have a champions league where the normal number of teams for each league enter e.g. 4 from premier league, top 3 from french league. And then the top teams from euro mix to make up 32.

So that makes for 38 blank spaces for each division structure or even better the ability to create and infinite number of teams like on FIFA 07. That would be great and it would be even better if there were more amount of teams in each division.

But of course it wouldn't appeal to the Japanese so it wouldn't happen. Why dont Konami-Japan send the game engine to Konami-Europe so that Konami-Japan make a game for Japan and Konami-Europe make a game that would appeal to Europe and America

EDIT: And also include a manager transfer mode to other teams when you finish each country and as chocovla said maybe the option to manage a national team when you're one of the best managers
 
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Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/06/07)

samba2 said:
im not a programmer, but i dont think it is as simple as just adding more team slots. I guess from logic that to increase the total number of teams 80 or so to over 240 wiht all correct cups, CL, etc is quite difficult as it means re-writing the ML engine to work out the increased permutations for a huge dynamic database with AI built in so you get realistic results and not purely random events with a cpu controleed Tranmere winning the CL!
I would hazard a guuess that is ALOT of extra coding. Maybe konami want to do it and just want to lay down the foundations for a ML -lite this version thats doesnt have any bugs etc, and build it up to a full one next year???
Click to expand...

I know a bit of programming myself, and editing the ML structure shouldn't be very difficult. First of all, having 240 teams in the DB instead of 80 isn't a big deal. There isn't any need to rewrite the ML engine, merely creating more slots for teams within the engine and creating new divisions (leagues) for them in the DB. Nothing complicated at all.

As far as the AI is concerned, the same AI logic can be placed on 240 teams instead of 80 teams. The only place where it might be difficult to add so many teams, is having to research all of them. However, creating a place for them in the ML isn't difficult at all.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/06/07)

Well well, we get the most improved Master League in years and still people overhere manage to complain. Just watch the improvements! Okay, maybe there are things you do not like, but overall in is a huge improvement.
Just for one time: Be happy what you get!
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/06/07)

Han said:
Well well, we get the most improved Master League in years and still people overhere manage to complain. Just watch the improvements! Okay, maybe there are things you do not like, but overall in is a huge improvement.
Just for one time: Be happy what you get!
Click to expand...

I know what you're saying but everyone's entitled to have his own opinion.The best thing to do is to respect ot (I'm not saying you haven't done so) .The game costs 70 euros so it's a huge investement thus it makes people(like me) anxious and nervy .I'm not gonna buy lots of games during the year (cause I can't afford it) that's why I want the best game as possible and that's I may sometimes be negative in my comments.As far as I'm concerned my negativity is a proof that I'm a big fan of the game and I only want it to improve.
4 divisions of 10 teams don't satisfy at all that's all. :mrgreen::mrgreen:
 
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