Top Spin 4

Wendetta said:
And you know what?

In real tennis regardless of the position and timing of your swing u can always change the direction of the ball with a tiny movements of your wrist (which is actually the essence of the game, unpredictability given by an almost invisible movement that only a few can really master).

can u move you wrist in dream tennis so u can change the direction of ur shot? No, u can't. So it is not realistic at all.
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That really is stupid logic, and it's not even true either.

In DMT, the direction of your shot is based on the timing of the swing (early = cross court, late = down the line) and also the direction you're holding at the point of impact.
The direction holding part of the technique is what I presume to be that "wrist" movement, as it doesn't alter the direction of the shot as much as the actual timing of the swing, and can be adjusted up until very late.
 
I don't know about the licensing details but I am still terribly disappointed by the ridiculously small rosters in Tennis games in general.

Would be SO nice to have something like 60 top players (30 male/30 female) + around 20 legends. Why not ? We have hundreds of licensed players in Basket Ball/Football games after all. For a Tennis game, a roster as big as WWE games for example would be just fine.
 
That's what one would imagine in this day and age. It's like we're still in the 90's.
 
Anis said:
I don't know about the licensing details but I am still terribly disappointed by the ridiculously small rosters in Tennis games in general.

Would be SO nice to have something like 60 top players (30 male/30 female) + around 20 legends. Why not ? We have hundreds of licensed players in Basket Ball/Football games after all. For a Tennis game, a roster as big as WWE games for example would be just fine.
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i agree.

I think those tennis f. ask for immense amount of money. I don't think u could actually sing a deal with the Atp, individuals most likely hold specific int pro rights.

i'd say 64 male players and 32 female players would be perfect.
 
for fucksakes no sliders on fifa 12? there probably implementing a 1 button mode instead!!

Anyways yea i cannot see why they dont fucking make game sliders! it will cater for both sim and arcade players. its not rocket science. idiots
 
jonneymendoza said:
for fucksakes no sliders on fifa 12? there probably implementing a 1 button mode instead!!

Anyways yea i cannot see why they dont fucking make game sliders! it will cater for both sim and arcade players. its not rocket science. idiots
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Having a few different control schemes and sliders for everything would make the game suit everybody...

A game like rFactor can be modded to play like a very arcadey racer, but can also go right to the other end of the scale, to (I think) the point that some professional racing teams even use it in their simulators for their drivers.

I think that if games were made more realistic anyway, people would just adjust to the changes and it would, if anything, actually improve their understanding of the sport.
 
I have no problem with 2 button controls, or assistance. I did, but then EG ran a feature about disabled gaming, and that completely changed my views on the subject.

What is wrong is stopping more advanced controls from being something to progress to, that lets you eke out more effectiveness.
 
Rob92 said:
Having a few different control schemes and sliders for everything would make the game suit everybody...

A game like rFactor can be modded to play like a very arcadey racer, but can also go right to the other end of the scale, to (I think) the point that some professional racing teams even use it in their simulators for their drivers.

I think that if games were made more realistic anyway, people would just adjust to the changes and it would, if anything, actually improve their understanding of the sport.
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Yes, the Red bull F1 team uses Rfactor as there virtual simulator. And yes i believe if companies like EA force people to play a realistic game, people will adjust accordingly. EA have already got every ones attention and they can easily make there games very realistic with no arcade crap and many people will still stick with it regardless.

if a company cant implement sliders then why not create two seperate games then? yea its more cost but i dunno, these idiots dont seem to realize that game sliders is the answer to everyones needs and the most cheapest and less time consuming task to implement.

the NBA 2K series is a perfect example. you can turn that game into a NBA JAM arcade style game or you can make it ultra realistic if you want.

Im sure the developers of these games all wished they could make there games including top spin 4, more realistic but its the dumb stupid ass managers and business guys who do not want that. A developer only develops what he is told to do so.

im a developer myself and our thoughts and opinions goes unotice 9/10.
 
jonneymendoza said:
Yes, the Red bull F1 team uses Rfactor as there virtual simulator. And yes i believe if companies like EA force people to play a realistic game, people will adjust accordingly. EA have already got every ones attention and they can easily make there games very realistic with no arcade crap and many people will still stick with it regardless.

if a company cant implement sliders then why not create two seperate games then? yea its more cost but i dunno, these idiots dont seem to realize that game sliders is the answer to everyones needs and the most cheapest and less time consuming task to implement.

the NBA 2K series is a perfect example. you can turn that game into a NBA JAM arcade style game or you can make it ultra realistic if you want.

Im sure the developers of these games all wished they could make there games including top spin 4, more realistic but its the dumb stupid ass managers and business guys who do not want that. A developer only develops what he is told to do so.

im a developer myself and our thoughts and opinions goes unotice 9/10.
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I see that my posts have opened up a big can of worms and have slightly derailed this topic, however I wish to address some of your points (namely the bolded ones).

Firstly why should I be forced to play a realistic game. I like realistic games but not everyone does. Forcing your views onto someone else especially over this subjective entertainment field of video games is utterly ludicrous.

Secondly your point about making two games is laughable Jonney. I know your a developer and my expertise is in Business Management but we both enjoy games and we both know how important money is at the end of the day. The only we can both stay in business is through a very simple concept. Keep costs low and maximise profits. Your idea of creating two versions of the same game is just pouring money down the drain. EA done something vaguely similar with their EA BIG range of games which ultimately failed and was closed down most likely as a cost cutting measure and due to dwindling sales.

Finally I disagree with your point that 'developers thoughts and opinions go unnoticed 9/10'.
Its not always true. Epic alone made Microsoft rethink the internal architecture of the Xbox 360 by making them add another 256MB of RAM to the console. I think developers have a huge impact on the game far more than the business suits (maybe not at Activision-Blizzard lol) but like I said a middle ground has to be found. If your idea is going to lose money then eventually you wont have a job unless someone steps in and makes some tough decisions.
 
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I don't understand how realism in a tennis game would make it less fun, or damage the sales figures...

Yeah, a racing game where you can't even complete a lap due to the need for split-second reactions, perfect judgement and massive amounts of practice would only be able to be marketed to a very small minority of gamers and would probably fail.

However, tennis is all about shot selection, positioning, anticipation and thinking ahead - not exactly things which are hard to learn/improve upon or need you to be super-talented. Ingame tutorials, the instruction manual and trial & error should enhance your tennis knowledge as well as your results in the game fairly quickly.

Surely it's the learning curve and initial failures that make the good play you can come up with later on all the more rewarding? Where's the "fun" in constantly striking spectacular winners if it's just par for the course with no skill or risk involved?
 
BillyBoy said:
I see that my posts have opened up a big can of worms and have slightly derailed this topic, however I wish to address some of your points (namely the bolded ones).

Firstly why should I be forced to play a realistic game. I like realistic games but not everyone does. Forcing your views onto someone else especially over this subjective entertainment field of video games is utterly ludicrous.

Secondly your point about making two games is laughable Jonney. I know your a developer and my expertise is in Business Management but we both enjoy games and we both know how important money is at the end of the day. The only we can both stay in business is through a very simple concept. Keep costs low and maximise profits. Your idea of creating two versions of the same game is just pouring money down the drain. EA done something vaguely similar with their EA BIG range of games which ultimately failed and was closed down most likely as a cost cutting measure and due to dwindling sales.

Finally I disagree with your point that 'developers thoughts and opinions go unnoticed 9/10'.
Its not always true. Epic alone made Microsoft rethink the internal architecture of the Xbox 360 by making them add another 256MB of RAM to the console. I think developers have a huge impact on the game far more than the business suits (maybe not at Activision-Blizzard lol) but like I said a middle ground has to be found. If your idea is going to lose money then eventually you wont have a job unless someone steps in and makes some tough decisions.
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I think you have missed most of my points completely and did even bother mentioning my point, i.e using game sliders. Ok so like you said, why should people be force to play realistic games. well back at you. why should people be forced to play unrealistic games?

You see. i through the question back at you. My solution about creating two different games was just a throw on the dice and not my real point as i even said it will cost more to do so! What is your thoughts about game sliders then? you have completely ignored that aspect of my post.

And about developers having a say. they dont. most of the decisions and requirements all come fro the business analysius guys/ceo's. us developers are puppets who just do what we are told. we voice our opinions yet it gets ignored. the guys over at cryteck even said this themselves about crysis 2. how they wished they could have made it better but they couldnt.

Many developers who play games would love a more realistic game without all this perks, 2 button bullshit etc etc but its not them who creates these requirements. its not their job to define the requirements. its there job to see if it can be implemented and to implement it afterwords.

All the business analysis and managers want is features that will help the game sell well and if a developer can implement it, there is no reason not to include it in a product

In this case the 2 button controls in fifa. developers can develope it as its not impossible to do so and thats what the managers and business people care about as that feature sells to the average joe and then the question about "forcing people" to play a certain way gets thrown right back in your face. OK 2 button can be disabled so ignore that idea but you cant adjust the AI in this tennis game, make shots more prone for errors, etc etc. those things are dumbed down and FORCED to play with these dumbed down arcade physics, features etc.

Like i said, game sliders is the answer to it all so i am looking forward to what you have to say about that
 
LOOOOL! Comprehension FTW!

I already said game sliders are great just one page back on post number 386! As a matter of fact it was directly after you mentioned it!

Lets see if EA or Konami add them this year.

Also your point about the struggle between devs and businessmen has completely changed my opinion. Well done. Now i'm certain that if the business types listen to nutters like you we will all be out of jobs lol! :LOL:

There has to be a level of control and financial discipline.

Look at Konami. All those league licenses cost money. If they spend loads of money in one area, then they might not be able to spend in other areas which are just as important if not more (like motion capture, AI development etc). We don't all have bottomless wallets where every devs wish can be granted. Look at GT5 and L.A. Noire as an example. If the Sony suits hadn't stepped in the development time alone and the constant eating of resources would have resulted in huge loses even after months of retail sales.
 
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This is the last time i'm posting regarding this issue since its clearly derailing this thread into something more of an economic standpoint.

Lets get back to Top Spin 4 which is quite enjoyable tennis game! :)
 
BillyBoy said:
LOOOOL! Comprehension FTW!

I already said game sliders are great just one page back on post number 386! As a matter of fact it was directly after you mentioned it!

Lets see if EA or Konami add them this year.

Also your point about the struggle between devs and businessmen has completely changed my opinion. Well done. Now i'm certain that if the business types listen to nutters like you we will all be out of jobs lol! :LOL:

There has to be a level of control and financial discipline.

Look at Konami. All those league licenses cost money. If they spend loads of money in one area, then they might not be able to spend in other areas which are just as important if not more (like motion capture, AI development etc). We don't all have bottomless wallets where every devs wish can be granted. Look at GT5 and L.A. Noire as an example. If the Sony suits hadn't stepped in the development time alone and the constant eating of resources would have resulted in huge loses even after months of retail sales.
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Point is, you mention a minor suggestion that at the same time, i even dismissed as saying it will be far too expensive and time consuming yet you based most of your points towards that, as if i was putting that point about making seperate games as my main argument.

Its not about every devs wishes to be granted. its about making a realistic game. but instead, they opt to force everyone to play dumbed down arcade games such as this.

Which leads to me repeating myself on you saying how its wrong for people to force others to play a certain way. End of the day, there is "no" realistic football or tennis game around.

No choice but to play arcade tennis and football i.e forcing everyone to play this way.
 
I just got this. Hit me with your best suggestions for playing the game.

I've got it on hard with in game helpers off currently because i found them a nuisance in the demo, having to pay too much attention to them despite them really seemingly having no affect on my success.
 
How does it work with the Move? Do the players move themselves or do you need a controller?
 
For player movement and ball directing, you can either use the sixaxis or dualshock you already have, or buy the navigation controller, which is more convenient imo.
 
I am not familiar with the psMove, but do you also need the Navigation controller??? yes, no, some games, better to have it etc! cheers
 
No mate you don't really "need" it. You can use the controller you already have. My cousin got it because he's a lefty and couldn't my controller on his right hand as it felt awkward for him.

I didn't have a problem though. Still a good thing what he did 'coz I got a free navigation controller now :P
 
Does anyone know if there is some way of boosting stats or glitching in this game?

I was doing pretty well until the past couple of games and now I'm getting granny'd every game. Every shot my opponent hits bounces on the line out of my reach and my shots are always weak in comparison.

Also I've noticed that when my player is running to return a shot, he stops for a split second and won't move until my opponent has struck the ball.

I couldn't have gotten shit overnight, I'm sure I'm getting cheated somehow!

On positive note, there are a lot of nice little touches in this game I'm just beginning to notice, like the way the players slide for a ball on clay courts and the difference in player animations to make them look just like their real life counterparts. FIFA could learn a lesson in individuality from 2K.
 
The top spin invasion/monster defense phenomeno is getting ridiculous...

Everyone use these skills for the player and they have huge advantage in the game!

2K must do something or everyone will abandon the game...
 
polakis said:
The top spin invasion/monster defense phenomeno is getting ridiculous...

Everyone use these skills for the player and they have huge advantage in the game!

2K must do something or everyone will abandon the game...
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What are you talking about exactly?
 
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