The Retro-PES Corner

[Flipper the Priest]

@Flipper the Priest I normally use keyboard as well. It's pretty straightforward really. The WASD is used in most FPS games so it's a natural enough feel for the action keys and arrow keys for directions. I realise at this point that I'm probably not convincing you

It's totally my ignorance. The only games I've ever played on a PC is Champ Man/FM or - more recently - PES using a DS4. It's not my world so I didn't realise people used keyboards. You learn something new everyday!

 

[Marlon Anthony]

The biggest questions are in terms of AI and shooting, passing error, inertia for me that on FOX:
1. Watering down these was a design choice?
2. Watering down these was the limitation of Fox?
3. Watering down these was the incompetence of the development team?

But im really afraid its the first one....
Fun facts, the producers of the games:
-2012 Seabass
2013-2014 Kei Masuda
2015 Kris Keith (?)
2016-2021 Yoshikatsu Ogihara

Definitely a design choice. They intentionally wanted to neuter the learning curve required to play these games because want more people casually playing them because the business was changing. They want more people playing these games and playing them online for longer so they'd be enticed into spending more money on in game purchases. And in order to do that, You have to compromise the sophistication of the game and make it more accessible so anybody thinks that they are good at the game in basic principle and are more likely to invest more time getting even better and more successful.

There's a reason why Gran Turismo isn't a pop culture gaming phenomenon and why FIFA and Fortnite are.

And a fun fact about 2015.I assume it has the most expensive soundtrack in pes history, regarding rights.
Only Avicii, Calvin Harris and American Authors tracks, must costed more than a whole pes soundtrack list usually costs.

It kind of goes hand in hand with the above post too, That the marketing of these games were clearly being targeted to a more trendy and commercial demographic, They felt like they wanted to instil a sense of familiarity with users psychologically and they're more likely to accept PES as trendy product if it has trendy and popularly accepted music rolling in it's menu's compared to the obscure indie bands of the early 2010's or the in house jazz/funk of the PS2 titles.

At the time these games came out, Radio 1 (in the UK is the largest boneheaded generic pop/chart music radio station) was mandatory listening and I'd hear the same damn songs 5 times a day and it's kind of made me resent PES even more because I'd come home from a shitty job and be reminded of my shitty job by hearing the same songs i heard all day at work all evening long on the damn game.

 

[gabe.paul.logan]

Definitely a design choice. They intentionally wanted to neuter the learning curve required to play these games because want more people casually playing them because the business was changing. They want more people playing these games and playing them online for longer so they'd be enticed into spending more money on in game purchases. And in order to do that, You have to compromise the sophistication of the game and make it more accessible so anybody thinks that they are good at the game in basic principle and are more likely to invest more time getting even better and more successful.

There's a reason why Gran Turismo isn't a pop culture gaming phenomenon and why FIFA and Fortnite are.

It kind of goes hand in hand with the above post too, That the marketing of these games were clearly being targeted to a more trendy and commercial demographic, They felt like they wanted to instil a sense of familiarity with users psychologically and they're more likely to accept PES as trendy product if it has trendy and popularly accepted music rolling in it's menu's compared to the obscure indie bands of the early 2010's or the in house jazz/funk of the PS2 titles.

At the time these games came out, Radio 1 (in the UK is the largest boneheaded generic pop/chart music radio station) was mandatory listening and I'd hear the same damn songs 5 times a day and it's kind of made me resent PES even more because I'd come home from a shitty job and be reminded of my shitty job by hearing the same songs i heard all day at work all evening long on the damn game.

Exactly, to be fair Gran Turismo is the last of its kind that is still true its +20 yrs old formula.

 

[Madmac79]

I've played football games with a keyboard as well for a long ass time! I did all the Pes from 5 (first one I think I actually play on pc) to 13 with arrows and q-w-e-r-a-d as actions. I was already used to it from the times of Fifa 98/WC 98/Fifa 99 so no particular big deal. I decided to connect my dual shock 3, and use it since for all, only when I was starting to explore Fifa seriously on Pc (with 13/14), cause with the keyboard they were pretty awful. I'd be curious to try Fox Pes as well, as I think I never really did.. time ago I did half a time with Pes 17 iirc and it didn't feel so bad.

 

[slamsoze]

It's totally my ignorance. The only games I've ever played on a PC is Champ Man/FM or - more recently - PES using a DS4. It's not my world so I didn't realise people used keyboards. You learn something new everyday!

On PC I started with FIFA 99. My options were a keyboard and/or a joystick for flight simulators.

And yes i started with the flight joystick!! cause it was a disadvantage and my older cousin preferred the keyboard to have the upper hand.

My setup is same as my boy @mattmid , WASD, Q for L1, E for through pass and left shift for R2. It is pretty convenient when you get used.
But much much better setup, than the proposed default by KONAmI which replicates the Dualshock crossed orientation buttons, something like E-S-D-X IIRC.

I confess the begining, coming from SNES and N64 was a nightmare.Miss clicks everywhere.

More crazy story. FIFA 98 you could play 2P versus. P1 on keyboard, P2 on mouse!!! Yes on mouse!!! How it worked, dont ask me. Never tried it!!!

 

[mattmid]

@slamsoze Virtually the same, the only difference for me from that is I have q and e the other way around. The only console I've ever had was the Sega Megadrive so keyboard was natural for games for me.

 

[Flipper the Priest]

Mind blown. Almost as much as when people in the 2021 thread said they use triangle for sprint.

I vaguely recall playing a FIFA (my guess is 98) at my mate Danny's house on a keyboard and going home in a huff after he repeatedly hammered me using a gamepad and was gloating about it. I thought playing with a keyboard was sorcery and wholly unfair, and my view has been entrenched ever since. In 2020, I have been enlightened. Part of me wants to face him again on level terms but he's in Australia now and it's probably not worth it.

 

[slamsoze]

@Madmac79 if I understand correct, play a Fox game on keyboard, I am afraid it is not functional in our days, even from PES2011 using the keyboard you miss a lot of things, from limited in passing, if you keep the Pass assistance to low levels, (PA starting from PES2012) , you can't take benefit from players with specials cards, that can turn 360.
You also can't manual aim 360. I mean you loose a lot new feats. Up to 2010 I think it is viablebto play with keyboards arrows or D-pad, for the rest you sure need a dual analog controller to take most benefits in your favor.

My only question is about 2011, cause it seems as a hybrid of on rails 16-d movememt/aiming and 360. There are times I am convinced 16 directions do work and other times that I think it uses full 360.

Speaking of 360, maybe it is the time to dust-off my old helicopter joystick to play some PES . Only problem is is I will need an adaptor, cause it uses old type cable.

 

[Saint Angelo]

Keyboard is heresy.

Fam how do u even marseille turn 🐑 asking for a friend with keyboard

 

[slamsoze]

Keyboard is heresy.

Fam how do u even marseille turn 🐑 asking for a friend with keyboard

You assign the analog stick to I-J-K-L, or 4-5-6-8 numlock on and you input the respective sequence. 4-5-6 or 4-8-6, etc.

Of course you can't do all things with the same ease you execute them with a gamepad.

 

[mattmid]

Fam how do u even marseille turn 🐑 asking for a friend with keyboard

I usually don't bother with most of the fancy stuff to be honest. I imagine if you attempted that kind of nonsense on a cold Tuesday night in Aberdeen they'd kick you into the stands anyway, right @Flipper the Priest ?

 

[miguelfcp]

@miguelfcp : Thank you so much mate. Especially you're one the guy that made me come back to retro football.

I started my retro adventure immediatly with EURO 88, in which 8 teams participated, without exhausting myself too much. The first match of Group 1, I controlled West Germany against Spain. I played a very superior game against Emilio Butragueño's Spain, which I was a fan of him. I wasn't expect to play this superior in top player. Especially Jürgen Klinsmann makes a difference in air. Other hand, atmosphere was amazing. Stadium, jerseys, crowds... I enjoyed incredibly. I don't know how often I can post it, but I'll try to share the entire tournament whenever possible.

Appreciate it man. I love to see people sharing their stories, creating content with these retro games' help. Great work with your videos, you've convinced me to try that lovely looking patch. These games were released before the "internet as we know it", only now with the help of people like you using these modern tools we can showcase its greatness to the whole world. I remember I was writing my PES3 review a while ago; I searched for PES3 images online and there were a few here and there, but nothing special. I was like; I am searching for one of the greatest games in the history of virtual football and the greatest search engine isn't able to get me at least a full page full of PES3-related images? What is this caricature of a world I am living in? Now the Retro Revenge is upon us. We're flooding the Internet with Retro-PES content, motherf******
------

After my Latvia and China adventures on PES5, I needed a palate cleanser. Decided to start a ML with Parma for many reasons - and not just because of their lovely kit (well, that too). Their PES5 team is in dire need of rebuilding; we all know in real life they have yet to return to their former glory; I will try to rewrite history. Then, there's also Savi. Upon writing my PES5 Wonderkids series, I learnt the story of Savi, who in PES5 is a very promising prospect at the age of 18; in real life, he was plagued with countless serious injuries and he was subjected to so many surgeries, prompting his career's nosedive. He was forced to retire at age age of 26 but, somehow, he convinces himself to play football again, joins a fifth division Italian side and for the first time ever, he is able to play regular football there. This is the inspiring story of a guy whose body is in absolute shambles and yet his passion for football is so potent that he just doesn't give up. I will be doing this ML in his honor too, and try to give him the career he never had in real life.

I haven't thought of any house rules, perhaps this will be a more relaxed footballing experience. I will try to keep things somewhat realistic, building a roster comprised of many Italians, perhaps selling our top players after a few seasons, etc. I also want to try out these wonderkids that I've been writing about - my last long-term PES5 ML was probably a decade and a half ago...- and for that reason, I've already invested in a duo of potent youngsters: Heitinga and Babel, both from Ajax, after taking out the footballing trash by releasing and selling the human waste we had lying around. Surely we will be promoted to the D1 despite our rough start, now that finally our potent attacking duo is working (Delvecchio and Corradi, both too good for the D2) and our CB duo is much more competent (Bonera and Heitinga, two retro-PES classics).

 

[Meazza84]

Speaking of PES 3, fresh just out of the oven:

 

[miguelfcp]

The Part#7 of the PES5 Wonderkids series: Attacking Midfielders. Apologize for the spoilers, but I have to mention the classic Baumjohann, the Right-Footed Messi of retro-PES. What a beast, come to Parma my boy!

https://liberomagazine.wordpress.com/2020/11/18/the-pes5-wonderkids-part-7-attacking-midfielders/

 

[Silverdome94]

I recently have been playing PES 5 and goodness, it's a ton of fun to play. I've always figured PES 6 was better since there are so many patches and option files, but I think 5 seems to be more fun from a pick-and-play standpoint. An issue I have in 5 is misplaced passes, so I require a bit more concentration and paying attention to which foot it's on, so it adds to the realism.

I have been playing the PES 5 Original Season patch and the 2001-02 OF by @Fenomeno9 - also check out his PES 6 Serie A OFs - and today I saw something I must've seen before but can't recall it: Gattuso was tackled from behind and injured, play went on for a bit and then stopped for him to receive treatment. Then the referee dropped the ball and Lazio booted the ball back to me. I was...dumbfounded. It's little touches like that that make retro gaming so much fun; it's probably commonplace today but I just played 20-minute halves and beat Lazio (those fucks) 2-1 with Milan and I absolutely enjoyed every minute of it.

 

[Saint Angelo]

keyboard (lol didnt want to ping)

idk guys initially i did play football games on keyboard (2003) but ever since i got psx in 2005 i never, never stopped using gamepad. More power to u I guess? 🐑

Marseille turn 4 life tho.

@miguelfcp

oh god pandora box has been opened. its rewind time back to 2002.

Parma was the first Italian football team I saw in television. A few months before I first played PES 3. Adriano, Gillardino, Mutu, Frey, that team was stacked. It was UEFA Cup back then. Wisła lost the first game 1:2 to then destroy Italians 4:1 in rematch. Game went into extra time - way past my bed time - but I stayed there, I watched it and I screamed like crazy probably woke all the neighbors up. This is probably the moment I truly got sucked into football.



I remember when they declared bankruptcy in 2016 or so? All the memories came back. Felt sad, it was the first "big" team I saw on tv back then. They popped up in Serie B I picked them for my ML in PES 2018 but the game was not fun. Felt good to take old buddies for a spin.

Parma deserves all the love it can get. What a team they've had!

Heitinga is class, insta-buy in the old days. Savi's story sounds depressing but now it can change. That's what Master League is about. I had Bendtner and Atajić (google him) scoring goals for Malaga in CL Final, you can rehabilitate someone actually decent 🐑

Memes, comebacks, revengences (?), retro PES we have it all here fam. This is the best thread in the forum if u reading and not playing retro PES I ask u, as sheep - stare into mirror and ask yourself, who are you, truly?

We da best, truly.

@breezy

Set injury tolerance to C for all players you will see this happening every game

Man I played Lazio ML couple years ago, Cribari was amazing in their PES 5 team. So were Rossi and Pandev. Lazio, another team gone down the drain.

 

[slamsoze]

@Keyboard talk

idk guys initially i did play football games on keyboard (2003) but ever since i got psx in 2005 i never, never stopped using gamepad. More power to u I guess? 🐑

Marseille turn 4 life tho.

@miguelfcp

oh god pandora box has been opened. its rewind time back to 2002.

Parma was the first Italian football team I saw in television. A few months before I first played PES 3. Adriano, Gillardino, Mutu, Frey, that team was stacked. It was UEFA Cup back then. Wisła lost the first game 1:2 to then destroy Italians 4:1 in rematch. Game went into extra time - way past my bed time - but I stayed there, I watched it and I screamed like crazy probably woke all the neighbors up. This is probably the moment I truly got sucked into football.



I remember when they declared bankruptcy in 2016 or so? All the memories came back. Felt sad, it was the first "big" team I saw on tv back then. They popped up in Serie B I picked them for my ML in PES 2018 but the game was not fun. Felt good to take old buddies for a spin.

Parma deserves all the love it can get. What a team they've had!

Heitinga is class, insta-buy in the old days. Savi's story sounds depressing but now it can change. That's what Master League is about. I had Bendtner and Atajić (google him) scoring goals for Malaga in CL Final, you can rehabilitate someone actually decent 🐑

Memes, comebacks, revengences (?), retro PES we have it all here fam. This is the best thread in the forum if u reading and not playing retro PES I ask u, as sheep - stare into mirror and ask yourself, who are you, truly?

We da best, truly.

@breezy

Set injury tolerance to C for all players you will see this happening every game

Man I played Lazio ML couple years ago, Cribari was amazing in their PES 5 team. So were Rossi and Pandev. Lazio, another team gone down the drain.

Amazing that there exists a user named @Keyboard

To your advise to @breezy i would suggest set all to C, or just buy Robben and Joe Cole. and enjoy them being injured every second game

I recently have been playing PES 5 and goodness, it's a ton of fun to play. I've always figured PES 6 was better since there are so many patches and option files, but I think 5 seems to be more fun from a pick-and-play standpoint. An issue I have in 5 is misplaced passes, so I require a bit more concentration and paying attention to which foot it's on, so it adds to the realism.

I have been playing the PES 5 Original Season patch and the 2001-02 OF by @Fenomeno9 - also check out his PES 6 Serie A OFs - and today I saw something I must've seen before but can't recall it: Gattuso was tackled from behind and injured, play went on for a bit and then stopped for him to receive treatment. Then the referee dropped the ball and Lazio booted the ball back to me. I was...dumbfounded. It's little touches like that that make retro gaming so much fun; it's probably commonplace today but I just played 20-minute halves and beat Lazio (those fucks) 2-1 with Milan and I absolutely enjoyed every minute of it.

Except for right positioning for passes, You can also try some passes with R2+. R2 pressed before passing. I know it is urban legend, but i feel it adds some finesse in passes and shoots.

 

[gabe.paul.logan]

Umm....PES2012 Master League is actually amazing Never mind the stupid transfer system and the player prices but damn its waaaaaaaaaaaaay way ahead of PES2021. Im enjoying every bit spent in the ML menu(minding about the trainings, injuries, players mood level, finances, objectives by the chairman, the briefing about the club/satisfaction level/opponents). And oh my ML team is playing like crap as should be. Its much muuuuuuuuch more lively than PES2021.

 

[Flipper the Priest]

Because I'm gracious in defeat, I'm not going to accuse English-born goalkeeper Neil Sullivan of anything.

Whether he could've done better with the first pen is purely a matter of opinion, of course.

Now, I'm not going to accuse English-born Nigel Quashie of anything, but...




Writing was on the wall after that Joe Cole pen. Too good.

I noticed that for the first time, the difficulty level is greyed out in the set up screen for pen shootouts in PES5. Here was me - with a 9-1 lead in shootouts on normal difficulty, beginning to think it made a difference.

"We go again."

 

[mattmid]

@Flipper the Priest I've seen his shooting first hand...

 

[Flipper the Priest]

Oh course. Pompey man. To be fair he did a good turn for Scotland. A bit of grit that was needed at a time when there was little technical quality in the team. Scored a couple of quality goals too IIRC.

 

[Madmac79]

Man I played Lazio ML couple years ago, Cribari was amazing in their PES 5 team. So were Rossi and Pandev. Lazio, another team gone down the drain.

What is this supposed to mean !? We are waaay better today compared with the era of Cribari and Pandev

 

[Saint Angelo]

What is this supposed to mean !? We are waaay better today compared with the era of Cribari and Pandev

Wait u Lazio gang?

I don't watch football at all these days so I wouldn't know what's going on. All I've heard is Immobile is killing it. Last time I followed all the big leagues was early 2010s or so, Lazio was like mid-table.

I stopped watching Eurofootball around 2013 I think. I followed J-League for a year or two but was hard to do (timezones). Since WC 2014 I only really watch the big tournaments. I have no clue what's going on in the world. 🐑

 

[Meazza84]

@Saint Angelo You don't know what you're missing! (not)

 

[Madmac79]

Wait u Lazio gang?

I don't watch football at all these days so I wouldn't know what's going on. All I've heard is Immobile is killing it. Last time I followed all the big leagues was early 2010s or so, Lazio was like mid-table.

I stopped watching Eurofootball around 2013 I think. I followed J-League for a year or two but was hard to do (timezones). Since WC 2014 I only really watch the big tournaments. I have no clue what's going on in the world. 🐑

Yep middle 00's to 10's we were much worse. A decent season here and there and then some middle table (or even lower) placement. Then after a turning market in which we signed Klose, Hernanes, Cissè (although unfortunately he flopped) and others, things started to get significantly better; fast forward to Inzaghi/Immobile's cycle that started in 16/17 and we finally are solid.

Hope I'm not sounding pedantic , it's just that we grew a lot since the Pes 5 roster (although we certainly had some good player even then) and my inner fanboy couldn't keep it in.

J-League is fantastic, I've always have in my plans to seriously play some with one of the many Ps2 chapters around

 

[Flipper the Priest]

J-League is fantastic, I've always have in my plans to seriously play some with one of the many Ps2 chapters around

I've grown to love the J-League this year. As I've touched on in recent posts too I'd love to source (although I'm pretty certain they won't exist) option file editors for the J-League editions. I can get by with Japanese menus (Google Translate) but the player names is too far! They're fun to play for exhibition games though.

 

[gabe.paul.logan]

Is there any up to date patch for 2012? I only could find a 2019 one but its way put of date. I might as well just go with 2012 pesedit.

 

[Saint Angelo]

@Saint Angelo You don't know what you're missing! (not)

Back then it was mostly that my friends were slowly losing interest in football and I ended up being on my own. No one to play with, no one to watch games with...I consider hopping back into it before every season, wanted to watch Serie A before 19/20 start but didn't go with it. Maybe someday though.

Hope I'm not sounding pedantic , it's just that we grew a lot since the Pes 5 roster (although we certainly had some good player even then) and my inner fanboy couldn't keep it in.

Nah we good fam 🐑 Serie A lobby is strong in this thread, a breathe of fresh air compared to fookin rashforde and livahpoole i hear and see everywhere these days.

J-League is fantastic, I've always have in my plans to seriously play some with one of the many Ps2 chapters around

I've grown to love the J-League this year. As I've touched on in recent posts too I'd love to source (although I'm pretty certain they won't exist) option file editors for the J-League editions. I can get by with Japanese menus (Google Translate) but the player names is too far! They're fun to play for exhibition games though.

I remember playing WE J-League Edition 1999 on PSX emulator, it was fully translated to English. Playing as Urawa Reds ofc (still on Komaba, old stadium) and their old wicked system of splitting season in two and having winners of both face off in a final match. Nagai, Okano, Tsuboi and then on the other sides Tamada, Nakamura, Endo, Ogasawara(...) great times, and a great game too, very fun to play.

Nowadays it's easy, FIFA got J-League and there's plenty of patches for PES, but if we want to play J-League with actually good football game...suddenly, we haven't got many options 🐑

 

[Flipper the Priest]

Nowadays it's easy, FIFA got J-League and there's plenty of patches for PES, but if we want to play J-League with actually good football game...suddenly, we haven't got many options 🐑

There are J-League-specific editions for 14 of the 15 years between 1995 and 2010. The only year missed out being WE7 which is - of course - my favourite! WE10 is the only one (I think) in which they chucked in European teams, too. That's my next project, to confirm that, unless anyone else can do so either way?

 

[Madmac79]

There are J-League-specific editions for 14 of the 15 years between 1995 and 2010. The only year missed out being WE7 which is - of course - my favourite! WE10 is the only one (I think) in which they chucked in European teams, too. That's my next project, to confirm that, unless anyone else can do so either way?

Yes, there isn't a WE7 J-League and it's a shame indeed. However there was a We 10 J-League Championship which came out later in the year (which gameplay wise was virtually identical to Pes 6 iirc)