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The Retro-PES Corner

sniglet said:
Here's the highlights if you're interested. I should note I was on 6*, and I'm fairly shit at WE9 in general.
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Great goal from Moutinho, I like the crowd sprites too, looks like it's been ripped from PES 3. Might have to check out this patch myself.

ToZanarkand said:
Hey guys, first post.

Started an ML on PES6 (PS2, default option file)

Something I've long wondered. Are there handicaps in certain games? I'm playing on max difficulty with a poor team, so currently I'm hovering around the top 6. I really like the challenge of it. However, I played Chelsea (the runaway leaders, W10 D1 L0) and destroyed them 5-0. This often seems to be the case on PS2 PES games. The matches that should be the hardest end up being boringly easy.

Has anything ever been proved regarding this?
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You've said it yourself, There was a handicap on this were it's hard to beat smaller teams and easy to beat bigger teams. Also regarding PES 5's difficulty, I find that playing it on 4* rather 5* is actually more challenging. Makes no sense of course but nothing did back then as we know.
 
cosmo said:
shooting on pes4 is really something haha, and on we9le the sprint is scripted facing goal scoring opportunity, the last important put-away ball from foot always goes the extra mile what garbage
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Oh God, this was one of the big factors in me starting to really resent PES / WE as the #1 football game of the time (FIFA was still awful, but I kept willing it to up its game).

So unbelievably frustrating, and for no other reason than cheating you, for your player to just happen to knock the ball ahead too far when sprinting whenever you were approaching the keeper (the alternative, of course, being to let go of sprint and press shoot, and even then you just jog into the keeper for an easy save).

I couldn't cope with it back then, all the AI bullshit. Now it's arguably worse - the AI don't even have to pass around you to beat you, they can just lob a ball forward from CB to ST, who brings it down perfectly for a "turn-shoot" goal.
 
Glad you appreciated it guys, appreciate the kind words :)

@geeeeee: Just checked your OF on the PS2 and yes, Wolves' John Ruddy is worth 1 PES Point, the poor guy. And he's the only one in the database with that status.
 
miguelfcp said:
Glad you appreciated it guys, appreciate the kind words :)

@geeeeee: Just checked your OF on the PS2 and yes, Wolves' John Ruddy is worth 1 PES Point, the poor guy. And he's the only one in the database with that status.
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Aah man :BLEH: i can’t even ‘like’ your post because of that. That is such a pain. I will try to work out why when and if i get back Into the country.

Thanks for checking :)
 
@geeeeee I agree about momentum vs scripting, where momentum seems to player a larger part. My Spurs were playing last ranked Wigan. I felt like it would be an easy win, but they started the game off on the front foot, creating 2 or 3 good opportunities. We couldn't seem to get anything going until Lennon speeds past their entire D and gets 1 on 1 with the goalie around the 25th minute, but of course misses it. BUT this simple event changed the game. We were then able to control the match and created all of the chances the rest of the match. We ended up winning 1-0 with a clutch Bent goal.

A couple of things I want to highlight is first...

- Speed. How many new football games don't differentiate the speed between players enough??? Where your fastest player can't seem to outrun a slow defender. Very frustrating! But here in PES 2008 Aaron Lennon's speed blew past 2 of there slower cb's no problem. The next thing to highlight is what happened next...

- Shooting. Aaron Lennon doesn't score many goals for me. In 2 1/2 seasons now he has only scored 2 goals. He has had numerous scoring chances but his final shot is woefully lacking. On the flip-side, Darren Bent is a scoring machine. I know I am beating the proverbial dead horse, but attribute stats really matter in these classic PES games.
 
@Special4988 The developers really understood the game. Momentum is huge in football, but also the also the ability to change and regain it through hard work, decisions, tactics etc. It was implemented in a more balanced way back then. Now from what I gather they take lazy shortcuts with painfully obvious scripting that often leaves you powerless, coupled with a broken stats/attributes system. Newer games seem to induce legit rage in a lot of people (games shouldn't do that), whereas older ones if you lose you generally feel like the other team deserved it. Hell, I even applaud their goals sometimes. You know you could have done things differently and played better to get the result, you didn't lose because the script was against you and the stats were being f*cked with. I just don't trust the developers motivations these days. Back then they just wanted to give you the most authentic and fun football experience out of the box. The whole landscape has shifted now.
 
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Couldln't have said it any better myself @Lexypoooo. This older games are also just so finely tuned that going back to them from modern football games is just so, Therapeutic? Maybe once in 50 games I night actually say "FFS the game DID actually fail me there mechanically if i'm hammering :square: for a clearance and my defender locks up and takes an extra touch that leads to a goal or something but the majority of the time,

I can really appreciate the efforts of the AI and that not every goal is a spectacle of pure team brilliance or divinity, That sometimes it's a consequence of bad decision making from player or a bad game plan.

Player switching is my biggest pet peeve in football games and i often worry when i'm defending if i'm going to concede because the game wouldn't allow me to control the most appropriate defender in a circumstance.

However on RetroPES, That's never on my mind - ever. Player switching is so reliable & perfectly engineered on these older titles not only can i concentrate on the task at hand while defending, It's also a bloody mystery why they can't replicate it today.

-------

Here's the 2nd legs of the last 16 ties.

Real Madrid and Barcelona may have 1 foot in the Quarter Finals but can current European Champions Manchester United & other favourites Inter Milan & Roma secure their spots in the second round? Find out in the Last 16, 2nd Leg!

 
Special4988 said:
@MafiaMurderBag Awesome work. High quality commentating and highlight package! I notice you control each team for 1 half, it seems you get pretty accurate results. AI are still able to score some good goals.
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Thanks mate, Yeah a lot of people wanted to control both teams from the get go, But i felt that;

  1. I wanted to get as many of the best teams through as i can in the groups, Then swap sides at half time in the knockout stages
  2. Even if you play as a favourite, Safety isn't guaranteed anyway. We all know PES and small teams are capable of causing shocks even if Barcelona was on performance enhancing drugs.
I know the AI comes under a little scrutiny on PES 5 & 6 for being a little flaccid on it's highest difficulties but i find that in tournament modes, They bay for blood and the CPU just ramps up it's motivation. It's like Konami specifically coded Exhibition and Competitions to employ specific AI psychology to reflect the real world casual approach to friendlies and the "no such thing as an easy game" dynamic in competitive structure.

That's my theory anyway, I don't think it's placebo or coincidence. Konami really thought of everything (apart from accurate tournament structure in African Cup of Nations & Copa America).
 
Here is a quick video showing exactly what I mentioned in an earlier post. This was my latest game against Manchester City. Aaron Lennon gets a beautiful through ball pass from Zokora, and actually beats the keeper, but not the post. But there is my main scorer Bent for a nice tap in.

Sorry it's a bit blurry. Was using my wife's camera to film it and am not used to her settings.

 
MafiaMurderBag said:
I know the AI comes under a little scrutiny on PES 5 & 6 for being a little flaccid on it's highest difficulties but i find that in tournament modes, They bay for blood and the CPU just ramps up it's motivation. It's like Konami specifically coded Exhibition and Competitions to employ specific AI psychology to reflect the real world casual approach to friendlies and the "no such thing as an easy game" dynamic in competitive structure.

That's my theory anyway, I don't think it's placebo or coincidence.
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For what it's worth, it's my experience as well (at least talking about Pes5/WE9 which I've played way more). I've always found cups (even in ML) more heartless than the other kind of matches, my idea would be that possibly Konami wanted to replicate the kind of real life drama that only in/out games can give you.

No idea how much of a proof can constitute, but I've checked my hystorical 7 seasons something ML in Pes 5 and while after the third one I started to rack up MLs victories, I only have one WEFA Championship victory in total.
 
Madmac79 said:
No idea how much of a proof can constitute, but I've checked my hystorical 7 seasons something ML in Pes 5 and while after the third one I started to rack up MLs victories, I only have one WEFA Championship victory in total.
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I think there's something in that too. Way back in this thread I was doing a default players ML on PES6. It took me I think 7 seasons to get promoted, with several near misses in the last 3 or 4 seasons but in that entire time I did not win ONE cup match! :LOL: 14 games and not a single win. The best I managed was a draw in one leg.
 
MafiaMurderBag said:
I know the AI comes under a little scrutiny on PES 5 & 6 for being a little flaccid on it's highest difficulties but i find that in tournament modes, They bay for blood and the CPU just ramps up it's motivation. It's like Konami specifically coded Exhibition and Competitions to employ specific AI psychology to reflect the real world casual approach to friendlies and the "no such thing as an easy game" dynamic in competitive structure.

That's my theory anyway, I don't think it's placebo or coincidence. Konami really thought of everything (apart from accurate tournament structure in African Cup of Nations & Copa America).
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I agree with you completely. :) I had the same experience playing tournaments. I used to underestimate the CPU because I was always playing friendlies.

I have a question for you: is there a way to make correct fixtures for a given tournament? I haven't been able to create correct matchdays for EURO 2000.
 
Meazza84 said:
I agree with you completely. :) I had the same experience playing tournaments. I used to underestimate the CPU because I was always playing friendlies.

I have a question for you: is there a way to make correct fixtures for a given tournament? I haven't been able to create correct matchdays for EURO 2000.
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No unfortunately it's random, You have to keep restarting the tournament until you get the schedule you want. I think it also has something to do with the order you put the teams in a given group too.

Sometimes you'll get match day 1 in the right order but match day 2 & 3 will be topsy turvy.
 
MafiaMurderBag said:
No unfortunately it's random, You have to keep restarting the tournament until you get the schedule you want. I think it also has something to do with the order you put the teams in a given group too.

Sometimes you'll get match day 1 in the right order but match day 2 & 3 will be topsy turvy.
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Thanks mate. I was able to get match day 1 right three times using different orders, but never match day 2.
 
@mattmid: That has to be one of the most memorable things of the Corner in about 2 years of its existence. Your copy of PES6 is cursed :P

What I've been finding on my PES5 International Cups is that not only the game is harder on the actual Cup itself, but it becomes even harder than that past the group stage. I've been able to beat typically better teams than my Venezuelas/Slovenias/Chinas/Saudi Arabias and the like on the group stage but, inevitably, I'm trashed right on the Round of 16, sometimes even by much weaker teams than those I beat previously, like Switzerland or Equador.
 
Back to Winning Eleven 7.... Euro final with Serbia&Montenegro against mighty Holland, but with Stojkovic and Savicevic from bonus shop players.
Also, added rest of bonus shop players to their home nations (Eusebio to Portugal, Yashin to Russia...)

 
Special4988 said:
Here is a quick video showing exactly what I mentioned in an earlier post. This was my latest game against Manchester City. Aaron Lennon gets a beautiful through ball pass from Zokora, and actually beats the keeper, but not the post. But there is my main scorer Bent for a nice tap in.

Sorry it's a bit blurry. Was using my wife's camera to film it and am not used to her settings.

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Yes stats make a difference and players shine in different ways. Even playing with newer players, for example i was playing against Wolves the other day and Adama Traore was giving me trouble throughout the match and scored two great individual goals.

Another thing that makes 2008 the best of retroPES is that the GK’s don’t always catch that lose ball that’s dropping in the air. I know on PES5 (not sure about 6) it used to annoy me when there is a bit of a goalmouth scramble but then the ball loops up in the air and the GK always gets it before your striker and there is nothing you can do. In 2008 it is possible to head it before he catches it or sometimes he just drops it which makes it all the more exciting.
 
@MadbaLL Did you have a solution for fixing the internal resolution for PES3/WE7?

I've tried searching the thread but had no luck as you posted it way back.

Don't suppose a method exists for PES 4 at either? I know @kingsley813 was unable to develop a tool for it.

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Quarter Final, Second Leg is now uploaded!



We are down to our final eight which includes underdogs Porto, Dark horses Athletico Madrid & Roma and Heavy favourites Barcelona, Inter Milan & Real Madrid. Who will get the edge in the first leg of the Quarter Finals?
 
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MafiaMurderBag said:
@MadbaLL Did you have a solution for fixing the internal resolution for PES3/WE7?

I've tried searching the thread but had no luck as you posted it way back.

Don't suppose a method exists for PES 4 at either? I know @kingsley813 was unable to develop a tool for it.
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well, speaking of pes3/we7i i never needed internal resolution fix, since that game has higher internal resolution than any other ps2 era pes/we game. using kitserver settings i just set it to max resolution of my monitor (which is 1920x1080) and it looks fabolous.

regarding pes 4/we8i, it has its own internal resolution setting in latest version of kitserver 4 by juce.
 
Finally managed to get the correct matchdays for Euro 2000. :) Thanks for your advice @MafiaMurderBag

Now I have so much free time that I would like to try to play the whole tournament against the CPU and make some videos. Nothing very fancy, just extended highlights or something like that. I am collecting info and reading about the formations and tactics the teams used, I'm even searching for Panini stickers online and saving them in their respective folders, LOL, that's how bored I am these days. I'm very inspired by what @MafiaMurderBag is doing, it's great fun and nothing short of art.
 
And I have another question for you guys. Does anybody know if it's possible to change the camera zoom in PS2 PES games? There are so many great patches out there but I like playing with a very faraway camera settings. I never quite learned how to play looking at the radar.
 
Hi to all and I hope you are well, despite it all.

I've mainly been a lurker on this wonderful thread but I'm breaking cover to report on my own recent finding in regard of retro PES.

I've been playing PES5 and, more recently, PES 2008 on PS2 hooked up to a budget-quailty HDTV using one of the cheap HDMI converters you can pick up online. The picture quality is actually pretty good and I've been revelling in session-after-session of retro footy (especially since the whistle was blown on real footy). Then something happened to make me question if I was really playing the games we all first fell in love with back in the day.

My son is a bit of a whizz with techy stuff and he managed to get PES 2008 running on my PS Vita. I hate the controls on the PSP so this seemed like a great upgrade. It was to a point but the one thing that surprised me was just how different this PES 2008 was to my PS2 version - waaaay slower and more refined for a start.

To cut the chase, I ended up looking into my PS2 set up and ended up - after much trial and error with various plugs, wires and settings - buying a £20 Scart lead from Retro Gaming Cables UK. I first hooked it up to my HDTV - not much different to how I had been playing it via HDTV converter. Then I hooked it up to an old CRT portable telly. Oh my god, the difference!

PES 2008, any PES pre PS3, comes fully alive on this old tech. The graphics pop, the gameplay is slower and more refined, the player individuality is even more pronounced...

Basically, I'm really just posting this to answer a question I think I may have asked on this very thread the last time I was compelled to comment: What is the best set up for retro PES? The answer is most definitely, and perhaps not surprisingly, exactly how the majority of us played it all those years ago - on a console via a trusty old CRT. No doubt PC gamers will have alternative views but that's not my thing.

Finally, thanks to @miguelfcp for that riveting review of PES5 - the greatest footy game of all time lives on (although, you're right, shame about that slightly powerder-puff attacking AI).
 
mattmid said:
Found it https://evo-web.co.uk/threads/pes6-...l-by-ciais-and-kingsley813.76214/post-3210681
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Thanks Matt, But i'm already aware of those, They are a godsend though.

MadbaLL said:
well, speaking of pes3/we7i i never needed internal resolution fix, since that game has higher internal resolution than any other ps2 era pes/we game. using kitserver settings i just set it to max resolution of my monitor (which is 1920x1080) and it looks fabolous.

regarding pes 4/we8i, it has its own internal resolution setting in latest version of kitserver 4 by juce.
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Thanks i didn't realise Juce updated Kitserver 4, I'll go check that out!

Meazza84 said:
I'm very inspired by what @MafiaMurderBag is doing, it's great fun and nothing short of art.
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Thanks, If anything if my videos inspire more people to pick up Retro PES and try it despite their initial dismissals of it, Then i'm happy. As we all know, These games have a certain soul, character & charisma that modern football games with all the bells & whistles of next gen visuals and licences just doesn't have, And it's not just placebo or suggestion if it's not just me saying it but hundreds of others too.

Meazza84 said:
And I have another question for you guys. Does anybody know if it's possible to change the camera zoom in PS2 PES games? There are so many great patches out there but I like playing with a very faraway camera settings. I never quite learned how to play looking at the radar.
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It is, For the PC versions there's these 2 camera tools.

https://evo-web.co.uk/threads/pes6-camera-tweak-download-help-needed.65060/

or

https://evo-web.co.uk/threads/new-cameras-pes-6.64852/

reinelt97 said:
Basically, I'm really just posting this to answer a question I think I may have asked on this very thread the last time I was compelled to comment: What is the best set up for retro PES? The answer is most definitely, and perhaps not surprisingly, exactly how the majority of us played it all those years ago - on a console via a trusty old CRT. No doubt PC gamers will have alternative views but that's not my thing.

Finally, thanks to @miguelfcp for that riveting review of PES5 - the greatest footy game of all time lives on (although, you're right, shame about that slightly powerder-puff attacking AI).
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First of all welcome to the corner! If you're playing on the original hardware (PS2) then yeahyou can't go wrong with a CRT for authenticity if you have one. These games natively out put at a low resolution so there is really no benefit or way of improving the picture by running it through your 4K TV.

PC users on the other hand have the benefit of up scaling the resolution internally so that it looks crisp and in someways like a remaster, But if you're just after the original console aesthetic then you needn't worry.
 
mattmid said:
@MafiaMurderBag I can't remember which of those two (3 or 4) it was, but I'm sure I recall reading that it worked on one of those but you had to change the resolution in game each time you started the game or something like that. I have a feeling I read it in the kingsley thread probably over a year ago.

EDIT:

Found it https://evo-web.co.uk/threads/pes6-...l-by-ciais-and-kingsley813.76214/post-3210681
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I've been playing (and loving) the old games recently, and it turns out that the latest Kitserver for the old games (yes, they're still being updated) has this resolution fix integrated into it, which can be edited in the usual kload.cfg file (to match your resolution).

You can find them in the archive on this website. Makes it ten times easier.

EDIT: Turns out (from the posts above) this was common knowledge to everyone but me... :D
 
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