The Retro-PES Corner

[Flipper the Priest]

😂
Never saw the GK touch the ball never mind score. It was nice to know it could happen though.
Handball too! Never saw that again.

It's how he absolutely sprints away too!

I've noticed that handballs taper off as WE7 evolves. After the chat earlier, @fmicablues7, I went and played them all! Side-by-side like that I could notice differences. Two games on each, Brazil vs Argentina, four stars, 10 minutes same conditions each time.

WE7 is more attritional. Slower. I can see why it'd be deemed more difficult because the lack of pace on the ball meant passes were intercepted more easily. Easily the fewest shots on goal out of the five games. Two draws.

PES3, by comparison, is madness. It's cocaine WE7. Everything is quicker, your teammates bomb forward, and it's all quite cavalier. Had at least twice as many shots. A draw and a win.

So while they were both fun in different ways the US and Korean versions kind of had the worst (still amazing) of both. Two wins on both, including a 5-0 cakewalk, which was actually disappointing! Kudos to the Korean version for having the best default ball - a Nike Merlin!

Japanese WE7I still came out on top for me. Just has everything in a nice balance, and the games felt more... natural, ebbing and flowing. Two draws, including an outstanding 2-2 with a Argentina racing into a two goal lead and I gradually worked my way back into the game, culminating in a last minute equaliser that had me punching the air.

Limited sample size but there's only so much time I'm willing to sink into games that - while different - are still relatively similar. All things consideres, I'd hold up the two Japanese versions.

 

[Madman05]

For almost three years I felt like PES 6 was the alpha, and there was no other game better than it. This was of course because it's the most well-known game from the PS2 era and everyone say it's the best PES ever, and that was what attracted me to play it 3 years ago, and I didn't stop playing it until my last proper Master League.

That was before I tried PES 3 and PES 4 in a more complex way (I had played them before but like 5 exhibition matches and then bye bye, I hadn't given them enough chance before).

All my best MLs were in PES 6 and the memories will always be there, I can't deny it, but nowadays I changed my mind and no longer think PES 6 is the best PES.

And about PES 5, well after a year playing it and trying it and giving it lots of chances just to delete it again and go back to PES 6, I can oficially say it's my least favorite game from the PS2 era (at least from the games I played, I never gave PES 1 and PES 2 a chance because well I'm too lazy to download an emulator lmao).

I felt PES 3 & 4 were more fun, and both have lots of things that make them better than PES 5 & 6. But the most important one: flags

Okay now seriously: after playing lots of PES 3 and PES 4 the past 12 days I came with my conclusion: PES 3 is really an interesting game, I like the graphics, it's notable that they're not the same as their 3 sucessors. The Master League is more organized and at the same time not so organized: we've got the leagues already designated in a very unique way, but at the same time all the teams from the 2nd div are just random, and they're always the same, you can't change anything. That is a bummer. Like, on one hand I like how the game just makes everything for you like saying "okay man just have these leagues and play with these players, and just play them like this idc" and I like that they're not like in the other ones where they have like three leagues with all teams from the the same country, and then they just leave a league out. That doesn't happen in PES 3, every team is included, even PES United and WE United. I like that because I can't tell how many times I got pissed with PES 5 or PES 6 for leaving the La Liga or Serie A out, and how because of that I always felt the need to unlock the composition. But of course PES 3 has some things I don't really like. The first one being that there's no full leagues in it. And because of that you cannot play a full Premier League, or Serie A in League mode. Then, the ML kinda confuses me. It seems different to the other MLs, like the wages are paid after every game (or that's what I saw) and I don't really feel 100% comfortable with that. And finally the least important thing I don't like: Real Madrid and Barcelona not being licensed. I have been so used to have both those teams licensed, that having them as Chamartin and Cataluna makes me feel kinda weird.

On the other hand PES 4 has full leagues, thing that I love, and like other person said previously, it gives you more freedom. The gameplay is really fun, compared to PES 5 and 6 I think it's better. It's less messy than PES 5 (I hate the PES 5 gameplay, it makes me so uncomfortable), and less robotic than PES 6. The background music in my opinion is the best one, plus I had gotten kinda fed up with the funky edit mode music in PES 5 and 6. On Master League you are not obligated to play with the default players like in PES 3, and you can actually create a team from scratch instead of grabbing PES United or WE United and editing them. Plus one really cool thing is that it doesn't matter if you create a club, pick an unlicensed club or pick a licensed club, you will always be able to edit everything on preseason. You can grab Atalanta for example, and after a season you could invent a history about a takeover at the club, and then create a Red Bull-like logo, and voilá you have now RB Atalanta after the takeover. One of the things I really don't like about this game, is how when you have a free kick or a corner and decide to pause the game, when you resume it the player just kicks it without you asking, and it's annoying because he doesn't even kick it properly, he just gives a shitty pass forward and ruins your chance that way.

So after what I said, this is my opinion nowadays:
PES 4 > PES 3 > PES 6 > PES 5

After reading this text here's a good idea for a drinking game: take a sip every time I say the word "like"

 

[cleanslate]

I hope one day Former Konami developers who worked on Pes 5 and 6 will tell us how they made such fun games

 

[Titch]

Also I would ask why they included penguins but not a simple vneck collar... 😂

 

[cleanslate]

I like the penguins
I scored a free kick with Ronaldinho wearing a penguin costume
Well it was not Ronaldinho anymore it was a Penguin xD

 

[Titch]

Pingudinho 😁
Then there was animal heads. I seem to remember novelty footballs too.

 

[mattmid]

Or even fundamental things like being able to put your centre backs up for corners.

According to the PES 5 guide that was removed because of people's complaints that they were conceding on the counter attack after corners!

I like the penguins
I scored a free kick with Ronaldinho wearing a penguin costume
Well it was not Ronaldinho anymore it was a Penguin xD

I could see him wearing one too.

 

[Madman05]

I just scored an absolute beast of a goal on WE8I, playing as Liverpool against Chelsea on an exhibition match cuz I was bored, sent a crossing from the right side which was defended but the ball went to Gerrard and without even letting it touch de floor he shot a volley from outside the box which destroyed Cudicini's net.

If I could record it I would so you could see it. Btw I was playing in 5 stars difficulty.

 

[Titch]

Is that version of WE similar to PES4?

 

[Madman05]

Yes, PES 4 = WE8I

 

[Titch]

Awesome. Volleys in that game were beasts 😎

 

[Flipper the Priest]

Editing thread can be a bit of a jungle so I'll post here. Seems to be a forgotten art that the editing thread has left behind anyway...

I'd like to know more about patching PS2 games. Can anyone help? Using DkZ Studio, WEDB Workshop etc.

Maybe DM? It's kinda off topic. I think. Cheers in advance!

 

[geeeeee]

Editing thread can be a bit of a jungle so I'll post here. Seems to be a forgotten art that the editing thread has left behind anyway...

I'd like to know more about patching PS2 games. Can anyone help? Using DkZ Studio, WEDB Workshop etc.

Maybe DM? It's kinda off topic. I think. Cheers in advance!

What PES are you editing?

This site is good for PES Editor downloads but nothing before PES5

http://www.purplehaze.eclipse.co.uk/downloads.html

You will also need a Max Drive and a PC.

These are good for editing Option Files, not for patches like PC ones.

@mattmid this match is for you. You may or may not enjoy

Spoiler

What has happened to Phillips?! Since that goal against Spurs he is suddenly turning it on for us. What has helped is the change in formation, from 4-3-3 to 4-4-2 with two DM's and two AM's. Sargent is back and fully fit and he just seems to tie everything together. Also interesting is that Liverpool lost their first game of the season to 2nd place Man City meaning that they are only 2 points clear at the top now.

 

[Flipper the Priest]

What PES are you editing?

This site is good for PES Editor downloads but nothing before PES5

http://www.purplehaze.eclipse.co.uk/downloads.html

You will also need a Max Drive and a PC.

These are good for editing Option Files, not for patches like PC ones.

Oh I'm a seasoned dab hand at option files - I'm the Flipper in the credits for the editor! I have all the editors and I'm in the process of creating option files for all 13 PS2 games. On the last leg of that now!

But, I want to do more, mainly with the J.League games. I want to edit the game files, and make PS2 patches.

Information is hard to come by. Obviously PC patches are all the rage, but that ain't my thing!

 

[geeeeee]

Oh I'm a seasoned dab hand at option files - I'm the Flipper in the credits for the editor! I have all the editors and I'm in the process of creating option files for all 13 PS2 games. On the last leg of that now!

But, I want to do more, mainly with the J.League games. I want to edit the game files, and make PS2 patches.

Information is hard to come by. Obviously PC patches are all the rage, but that ain't my thing!

Oh right i getcha

You mean to make patches so that they get ingrained in the game? So instead of having an option file to load the new teams and players in the game, they are already there when you boot up?

PS Just seen you in the credits, was that like me asking Ronaldo if he knows how to kick a ball?

 

[Madman05]

Won my first title on my new WE8I save.

Turkey were the surprising champions of the International Cup after beating France in the final.

Bastürk was awarded the golden boot after scoring 10 goals in the 7 matches we played.

This was our RTG:
A huge win on the debut vs. Greece (4-0)
Then an epic game against Argentina on the second match (3-2 we win)
And to end the group stages we get shocked by Litmanen's Finland who beat us 1-0 with a goal at the 88th minute.

With those 3 results we go into the R16 second of our group with 6 points. Argentina with also 6 points but with a bigger GD, were the group leaders.

R16 was a dull game vs. Wales, which we won 2-0 easily.

Then the underdog clash between Turkey and Slovakia in the quarter finals started with Slovakia getting the lead, but on the second half an inspired turkish side had no mercy and the end result was a 4-1 win for us.

On semis we meet an old rival, Argentina. Both games against Argentina were tense and fun. Argentina scores at the 37th minute and with that our hopes and dreams were slowly falling apart. 1-0 at half-time. Then it seems two whole different teams entered the 2nd half. Turkey got inspired and thanks to a Bastürk brace we get our turnaround, while Argentina started playing poorly and desperately, and couldn't beat us. 2-1 the score, and Turkey through to the final.

The final against France wasn't as epic as I expected, since a Bastürk strike at the end of the first half and a Hakan Sukur tap-in at the 75th minute secured the title for Turkey.

 

[Flipper the Priest]

Oh right i getcha

You mean to make patches so that they get ingrained in the game? So instead of having an option file to load the new teams and players in the game, they are already there when you boot up?

PS Just seen you in the credits, was that like me asking Ronaldo if he knows how to kick a ball?

Bingo. There's still a big PS2 modding community in South America, namely Brazil, but my Portuguese isn't up to much!

To be honest all I did was test the editor thoroughly. And those editors have grown arms and legs since. Made some great option files back in the day for PES 3, 4, 5 and 6; long gone, sadly!

 

[Flipper the Priest]

Pingudinho 😁
Then there was animal heads. I seem to remember novelty footballs too.

Watching Pingu with my niece today and she put the subtitles on. When they speak it reads 'Penguinese'. Made me think of this!

 

[mattmid]

@geeeeee I think it's fair to say I enjoyed that one! Phillips is my new favourite player

 

[geeeeee]

Bingo. There's still a big PS2 modding community in South America, namely Brazil, but my Portuguese isn't up to much!

To be honest all I did was test the editor thoroughly. And those editors have grown arms and legs since. Made some great option files back in the day for PES 3, 4, 5 and 6; long gone, sadly!

That’s great that you had a hand in the editors, the testing is still really important. A belated thanks from me for that as it has helped me to enjoy the retro PES scene while all the new PES’ suffer.

If you do happen to find out how to patch a game for PS2 please let us know.

What happened to your option files then?

 

[Flipper the Priest]

You're welcome!

I've managed to figure out some stuff. A patched ISO I downloaded for J.League Winning Eleven 10 came bundled with tools and a tutorial, but it's in Portuguese. Google Translate got me as far as DkZ Studio and WEDB Workshop, with the ability to edit player and team names. But I don't how to export it back to an ISO to see if it worked.

There are patches coming out all the time, for PS1 and PS2 games. Almost exclusively, though, from South America. The knowledge is out there!

My option files were on a family computer. I think they made it on to a laptop, but that was about six laptops ago! There was definitely a Euro 2004 one for PES3, a general one for PES5 (I distinctly remember creating Thun, Rapid Vienna, and other teams from that season's Champions League) and one for PES6 in which I created 100s of players. It was more for people to import from for their files.

Will likely publish my option files I'm working on. I focused exclusively on names (making them title case and consistent with Transfermarkt for reference), but @PesBuck came through with some files from which I've imported kits and badges. @pallors made that much, much easier by digging out editors for the later games. The community is ace.

 

[Lucian0]

You're welcome!

I've managed to figure out some stuff. A patched ISO I downloaded for J.League Winning Eleven 10 came bundled with tools and a tutorial, but it's in Portuguese. Google Translate got me as far as DkZ Studio and WEDB Workshop, with the ability to edit player and team names. But I don't how to export it back to an ISO to see if it worked.

There are patches coming out all the time, for PS1 and PS2 games. Almost exclusively, though, from South America. The knowledge is out there!

My option files were on a family computer. I think they made it on to a laptop, but that was about six laptops ago! There was definitely a Euro 2004 one for PES3, a general one for PES5 (I distinctly remember creating Thun, Rapid Vienna, and other teams from that season's Champions League) and one for PES6 in which I created 100s of players. It was more for people to import from for their files.

Will likely publish my option files I'm working on. I focused exclusively on names (making them title case and consistent with Transfermarkt for reference), but @PesBuck came through with some files from which I've imported kits and badges. @pallors made that much, much easier by digging out editors for the later games. The community is ace.

I never did a patch for PS2 but several years ago I remember using those files to create the final images for the games.

For example for J-League WE 2008 you have this structure of files in the image of the game:





For some editions you generate some .dkz files that you have to apply with DKZ Studio to overwrite the original game files.
For stats and teams I remember that you have to extract some unknow files from 0_TEXT.AFS to make the database editions with WEDB and then import them back to the 0_TEXT.AFS with DKZ and then replace those in the original game.
Finally make an image with the same structure of files of the original game (back in the day with Nero).

I hope it helps somehow!

 

[Flipper the Priest]

I never did a patch for PS2 but several years ago I remember using those files to create the final images for the games.

For example for J-League WE 2008 you have this structure of files in the image of the game:


View attachment 85132


For some editions you generate some .dkz files that you have to apply with DKZ Studio to overwrite the original game files.
For stats and teams I remember that you have to extract some unknow files from 0_TEXT.AFS to make the database editions with WEDB and then import them back to the 0_TEXT.AFS with DKZ and then replace those in the original game.
Finally make an image with the same structure of files of the original game (back in the day with Nero).

I hope it helps somehow!

Interesting. I got up to the point where you say to import them back. I assumed that's what you did - simply replacing the files of the same name - but then read some guides that said you need to rename certain things and I got lost! I might just see what happens if I do if I simply replace the unknow files. Nero still seems to be a go-to to build the image.

Thanks for your help! It's all progress!

 

[ToZanarkand]

About once a year I get the urge for some PS2 PES. PES 5 has always been my favourite but this time around I thought I'd try some of the other on Exhibition to see if I could fall in love with those again. Conclusion? Not much has changed. I'm going to carry on with PES 5 as I just don't enjoy the others anywhere near as much. I will probably start a ML with the default option file.

Here's some thoughts on the rest, if anyone's interested. Madman05 you might want to look away now if you love 4 and hate 5!

1 - Not really recognisable from the later games and not worth playing anymore. Does anyone disagree?
2 - Same as above
3 - I love the look of this game. It has a unique aesthetic that I think they left behind. Gameplay is just too chaotic though. The ball seems to ping around uncontrollably, even if you try and play slow.
4 - I found the gameplay on this to be halfway between 3 and 5. It can be fun but my main problem is that it's too "floaty". There's no weight to passing and shooting.
5 - Still fun, after all these years. No football game comes close. I just find controlling players an absolute joy in this, whilst it still remains challenging in ways that the next entry doesn't. The only things that let this down are the referee gifting the player easy penalties but not the AI and the overall aesthetic. As someone else mentioned, why the hell aren't there fans? It can look a bit drab when compared to 3.
6 - This would probably still be the best to play multiplayer. Against the AI it's just too easy though. With the right player on PES 5 you can dribble past entire defences. On PES 6 you can do that with a centre back and then slam it in the top corner.
2008 - Similar to PES 6. Probably still a lot of fun with friends but you can do outrageous things with seemingly any player. I also came across weird handicaps against the AI. I could choose Japan against France and I feel like the game would let me win.
09/10 - There are a few things I like about these, but for the most part you can tell they simply weren't concentrating on them for obvious reasons. Full of weird inconsistencies.

 

[sampaauf]

About once a year I get the urge for some PS2 PES. PES 5 has always been my favourite but this time around I thought I'd try some of the other on Exhibition to see if I could fall in love with those again. Conclusion? Not much has changed. I'm going to carry on with PES 5 as I just don't enjoy the others anywhere near as much. I will probably start a ML with the default option file.

Here's some thoughts on the rest, if anyone's interested. Madman05 you might want to look away now if you love 4 and hate 5!

1 - Not really recognisable from the later games and not worth playing anymore. Does anyone disagree?
2 - Same as above
3 - I love the look of this game. It has a unique aesthetic that I think they left behind. Gameplay is just too chaotic though. The ball seems to ping around uncontrollably, even if you try and play slow.
4 - I found the gameplay on this to be halfway between 3 and 5. It can be fun but my main problem is that it's too "floaty". There's no weight to passing and shooting.
5 - Still fun, after all these years. No football game comes close. I just find controlling players an absolute joy in this, whilst it still remains challenging in ways that the next entry doesn't. The only things that let this down are the referee gifting the player easy penalties but not the AI and the overall aesthetic. As someone else mentioned, why the hell aren't there fans? It can look a bit drab when compared to 3.
6 - This would probably still be the best to play multiplayer. Against the AI it's just too easy though. With the right player on PES 5 you can dribble past entire defences. On PES 6 you can do that with a centre back and then slam it in the top corner.
2008 - Similar to PES 6. Probably still a lot of fun with friends but you can do outrageous things with seemingly any player. I also came across weird handicaps against the AI. I could choose Japan against France and I feel like the game would let me win.
09/10 - There are a few things I like about these, but for the most part you can tell they simply weren't concentrating on them for obvious reasons. Full of weird inconsistencies.

Hahahaha I wouldn't say I "hate" PES 5, it's just the game I feel less comfortable with. Plus who knows, perhaps eventually I might change my mind about it and it could become my favourite PES, everything is possible.

Okay guys, after like two weeks not being my 100% self, I'm back on my feet fortunately. My other account MadMan05 will no longer be used so the admins can feel free to delete it. I only created it because I felt the need to let you guys know why I asked for my original account to be deleted, but I still wasn't feeling well at that time. So that account was made with that purpose only.

I made this account instead which will be my account from now on, which kinda makes sense since everyone already knew me as "Sampa" so I created this account with "sampa" on its name to not rise confusion with people who aren't familiar with me.

Sorry for this account creating problem I've had, but I can guarantee you it's over and it won't happen again xd.

 

[geeeeee]

Match Day 14 in my ML and it is against Newcastle, can we push on from that excellent win against Southampton and get away from the relegation zone...

Spoiler

Finally we are out the relegation zone Not the most exciting game in the world but we won that's the main thing. Big problem though is that the scorer, Rush, is out for 11 weeks. The good thing is the transfer window is coming up shortly so that will take up 4 weeks of his injury.

 

[Marlon Anthony]

About once a year I get the urge for some PS2 PES. PES 5 has always been my favourite but this time around I thought I'd try some of the other on Exhibition to see if I could fall in love with those again. Conclusion? Not much has changed. I'm going to carry on with PES 5 as I just don't enjoy the others anywhere near as much. I will probably start a ML with the default option file.

Here's some thoughts on the rest, if anyone's interested. Madman05 you might want to look away now if you love 4 and hate 5!

1 - Not really recognisable from the later games and not worth playing anymore. Does anyone disagree?
2 - Same as above
3 - I love the look of this game. It has a unique aesthetic that I think they left behind. Gameplay is just too chaotic though. The ball seems to ping around uncontrollably, even if you try and play slow.
4 - I found the gameplay on this to be halfway between 3 and 5. It can be fun but my main problem is that it's too "floaty". There's no weight to passing and shooting.
5 - Still fun, after all these years. No football game comes close. I just find controlling players an absolute joy in this, whilst it still remains challenging in ways that the next entry doesn't. The only things that let this down are the referee gifting the player easy penalties but not the AI and the overall aesthetic. As someone else mentioned, why the hell aren't there fans? It can look a bit drab when compared to 3.
6 - This would probably still be the best to play multiplayer. Against the AI it's just too easy though. With the right player on PES 5 you can dribble past entire defences. On PES 6 you can do that with a centre back and then slam it in the top corner.
2008 - Similar to PES 6. Probably still a lot of fun with friends but you can do outrageous things with seemingly any player. I also came across weird handicaps against the AI. I could choose Japan against France and I feel like the game would let me win.
09/10 - There are a few things I like about these, but for the most part you can tell they simply weren't concentrating on them for obvious reasons. Full of weird inconsistencies.

Nice username, I'm sure your fondness of the great PS2 era for gaming alone doesn't need justifying. FFX is the only JRPG to ever make me cry 🙂

Anyway there's some good points in your summary, I agree with most of what you said to be fair. Maybe I'm a lot more forgiving of the older games because I find them fascinating from a historical and evolution of football gaming standpoint rather than how playable they are now.

I think with PES1 & 2, They were my first ever football games and I think the simplicity of them is what eased me into football games and made me fall in love with the sport in general. This is partly why I understand why Konami & EA neglect the punishing fundamentals of real football nowadays because they want a turnover of new fans, They want people who don't even watch football to develop a curiosity and eventually become hooked and that can't happen if you scare them off with Gran Turismo football.

But as per my first point, They're a lot more primitive compared to what would come over the next 4 years and it's a terrific progression. To go from PES 1 to the beloved PES 5 in 5 years, Is like a revolution. I think 2000 to 2013 is basically a football gaming arms race, Which game can innovate more, who would get left behind and who would bounce back with something greater. Truly exciting times in hindsight compared to now when it's clear they have a formula and they safely make money with reskinned games.

I agree with your sentiment on PES 3 looking very unique, This was the first major artistic upgrade in the series and a mature attempt at a realistic presentation. The menu's, music and animations were very classy. PES 4 seems like such a drastic departure with it's garish menu's and inconsistent player faces. This was when they first started rendering entire head models and they looked fantastic yet stood out like a sore dick on a porn set compared to the build faces and those carried over from 3.

I also know what you mean about it being floaty, To me more specifically I felt like shooting was quite soft. You could zing passes around thanks to the new hold to pass further but the shooting wasn't as balanced or satisfying.

5 was probably the magnus opus of PS2 PES and some might say, of all time. Released among the backdrop of one of the most fondly remembered periods of football where legends and the new blood intertwined and with one of the best World Cups around the corner, It was a magical time to be a fan.

This was their ballsiest effort yet and they doubled down on their art and vision and dared to make a brutally unforgiving simulation with emphasis on consequence for playing it like an arcade game. I think 5 was quite divisive among some fans though and that clearly influenced their direction for PES 6 to make it a lot more accessible again like the earlier PS2 titles but nonetheless it achieved a happy medium and there's a reason why it's the most patched and most community supported PES of all time, 15 years after release.

As for the later titles, It always intrigued me how they had a division of staff that still showed them later, 08-14 PS2 versions some attention, Not earth changing alterations but more like revisions. Nonetheless they say if it isn't broke, Why fix it?

 

[Meazza84]

Guys, is there a good PES 3 or PES 4 patch with 2003-04 Champions league in it?

Maybe @MadbaLL knows?

 

[Flipper the Priest]

About once a year I get the urge for some PS2 PES. PES 5 has always been my favourite but this time around I thought I'd try some of the other on Exhibition to see if I could fall in love with those again. Conclusion? Not much has changed. I'm going to carry on with PES 5 as I just don't enjoy the others anywhere near as much. I will probably start a ML with the default option file.



Here's some thoughts on the rest, if anyone's interested. Madman05 you might want to look away now if you love 4 and hate 5!



1 - Not really recognisable from the later games and not worth playing anymore. Does anyone disagree?

2 - Same as above

3 - I love the look of this game. It has a unique aesthetic that I think they left behind. Gameplay is just too chaotic though. The ball seems to ping around uncontrollably, even if you try and play slow.

4 - I found the gameplay on this to be halfway between 3 and 5. It can be fun but my main problem is that it's too "floaty". There's no weight to passing and shooting.

5 - Still fun, after all these years. No football game comes close. I just find controlling players an absolute joy in this, whilst it still remains challenging in ways that the next entry doesn't. The only things that let this down are the referee gifting the player easy penalties but not the AI and the overall aesthetic. As someone else mentioned, why the hell aren't there fans? It can look a bit drab when compared to 3.

6 - This would probably still be the best to play multiplayer. Against the AI it's just too easy though. With the right player on PES 5 you can dribble past entire defences. On PES 6 you can do that with a centre back and then slam it in the top corner.

2008 - Similar to PES 6. Probably still a lot of fun with friends but you can do outrageous things with seemingly any player. I also came across weird handicaps against the AI. I could choose Japan against France and I feel like the game would let me win.

09/10 - There are a few things I like about these, but for the most part you can tell they simply weren't concentrating on them for obvious reasons. Full of weird inconsistencies.

There's only one thing I can say for certain: PES3 is my favourite. And I see it as being pretty unique in the series. I'd lump 1 and 2 together, and 4 to 14 together, albeit very, very loosely.

Elsewhere, I'm torn. I know post-PES3 games are more sophisticated, but I've a newfound appreciation for the older games. I think I'd sooner play PES2 than PES5. Horses for courses really, all depends on my mood!

I could go on and on and on. But I'd just be babbling. Plus I end up massively overthinking it!

------

Season 4 of the Master League has started. Some neat solo and team goals, and a honking miss!

 

[Early PES footy fan]

2009

I finished my fourth season in the top flight with Sao Paulo. Although I didn't slip up too many times this year and only lost a single game (1-0 to Rhone), I nevertheless finished four points behind Barca, who won the league for the first time since 2006, drawing fewer games than me and losing only once (to me!). The league top scorer was Morientes of Atletico Madrid with 18. Madrid achieved their best league finish so far, 3rd, though they were a long way behind me, ten points or more. Also in the top six were Valencia, Rhone and PSG.

I did win the D1 cup though; having knocked out Barca at the quarter-final stage I went on to trounce Rhone in a surprisingly one-sided final, 6-0. I wasn't on great form and had drawn and lost against them in the league. Romario scored twice in this drubbing, making him the highest scorer with 5.

In the European Cup, I knocked Man Utd out at the QF stage with a single penalty in the first leg, much less exciting than our encounter in 2008. In the semis though I lost to Real Madrid; the first leg ended 3-1 at home, with Maradona hitting the woodwork three times before eventually getting a late goal. I had thrown away just such an advantage the previous season against Man Utd, and so it proved again as a Maradona hat trick and a Gravesen header resulted in a 4-0 defeat in Spain. Maradona scored a penalty and a free kick, both justly given by the ref, and the free kick was an absolute stormer. They went on to be defeated by AC Milan in the final, however. The Uefa Cup was won by Inter against Liverpool. Top scorer in the EC was Maradona with 6, and in the UEFA it was Nonda of Roma with 3 (they went out at the semi stage to Liverpool).

League A was won by AC Milan ahead of Man Utd. League B was won by PSV ahead of Bayern, and League D (I am in C) by Juve ahead of Real Madrid. The corresponding domestic cups were won by Chelsea, Bayern and Inter. League A is predominately English clubs, B and C are a mixture of all sorts of Europeans, and D is mainly Italians.

Despite me not having quite as good a season as last, I still performed quite well, and ended the season playing some decent football. I again set a new record number of goals scored for my team, with 66 this year. The title went down to the last game, and at half time things were looking very hopeful- Atletico were holding Barca 1-1 in Madrid, and I was 1-0 up against PSG after an early goal by Vélber. That would have won me the title on goal difference! But alas, Barca won in the end, and in any case I conceded a late goal when a cross was powerfully volleyed in by Bueno. Not bueno for me! I only conceded 11 goals all season, but there were a few games when I felt I had performed weakly, creating next to nothing and losing to struggling teams. Despite scoring more goals than ever, my main forwards (Marcio Amoroso and Grafite) didn't score as many as in previous years, Amoroso only achieving 11 and Grafite 6. Castolo only had two in the league and I think they were both penalties, though he had some good games. There was a broad smattering of goals through much of the side though, and my right back Cicinho scored 8, mainly from free kicks.

FC Utrecht went down this year having survived their maiden season in 2008. PES Utd joined them; early in the year they had seemed to be faring reasonably well in lower midtable, and it was their fellow promotees Sporting Lisbon who were at the bottom, but this pattern reversed itself over the last third of the campaign, and PES narrowly went down. Coming up to replace them are Aquitaine and Charlton Athletic.