The Retro-PES Corner

MafiaMurderBag said:
I think it went back to normal after PES 2010 but i'll have to check in 2011-2013. This is another one of their fetish for f***ing with stuff not important for no reason in all it's glory.
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They removed League mode completely in 2013. Yes.

That was a particularly fun afternoon in the Konami offices.

"Right, we're getting ready to do the final build, this is looking like it's going to be a great version,. You know what though, we really should do something to f**k it up, some idea right out of left field. Any ideas?"
"How about removing the league mode completely?"
"Yes, brilliant, they'll never see that coming."

Sigh.
 
@MafiaMurderBag loved the first episode of your All Star League. It truly does have a marked nostalgic taste, probably cause All-Stars are pretty much a thing of the past in football, but as a kid I used to go crazy for the rare events they were in. Also, unlockable All Stars in old football games were the stuff of magic to me as well :D .

By the way, Pes 10 looks fantastic for your kind of videos. Outstanding variety in those highlights. I feel sympathy for North American AS. They look so bad despite being a selection of besties :D !
 
miguelfcp said:
@Heisenberg: I was just on your Laziale facebook page - many thanks for mentioning the Libero, appreciate the kind words too. I see you're still on the editing "horse", and it's looking marvelous. Can't wait to try out the new Classic Laziale, perhaps even will write a dedicated review to it.
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Thanks Miguel. I look forward to that review, your blog is very interesting, I used to go in to see it every week, but you left it stagnant, I wait for it back, with my OF or with any other topic.


Since you mention it, I launched my OF Classic Laziale several months ago, for me it is my best work so far, however, it has not had much impact on this forum, it was even removed in the thread of PES5 ... I leave you again the link
https://evo-web.co.uk/threads/ps2-psp-pes2008-of-classic-laziale-2-0.83609/

Now I am fully in the new Laziale 2021, where for the first time I will launch two versions, one the usual with MLS teams and another with Champions and Libertadores classics.


I also recently started editing the PES2008 ISO on PSP by inserting faces and kits, it's really addictive!
 
rockstrongo said:
Brilliant idea!

I use to play Fuma on Pes 15-16 and early 17,really enjoyable.
But with modern games,doesn't sit right with me (like all else on them tbh)
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That's interesting. I flirted with manual on & off casually through the years on both games but never committed to it for more than 2 games, Probably because I didn't have as much patience. I felt like maybe manual was a bit more authentic then as it had less pass correction as it does on 20/21, Which is probably why i'm embracing it more. It's still better than the passive ultra accuracy of PA1 nowadays.

mattmid said:
They removed League mode completely in 2013. Yes.

That was a particularly fun afternoon in the Konami offices.

"Right, we're getting ready to do the final build, this is looking like it's going to be a great version,. You know what though, we really should do something to f**k it up, some idea right out of left field. Any ideas?"
"How about removing the league mode completely?"
"Yes, brilliant, they'll never see that coming."

Sigh.
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This is all i can envision. There has to be some kind of conversation prior to this decision making. Do they do it because there's a week to go until Gold, They're ahead of schedule but they have to justify their wage for that week so they invent something to code for the sake of looking busy?

"Look Mr Producer, We took in upon ourselves to finally put to rest the longstanding problem about how the Konami Cup has outstayed it's welcome. So we HID IT FROM EVERYONE. Are you pleased boss?

"Yes good work. Some state of the art vision there team."

Because surely if they had some code to push around on their plate to make it look like they're eating waiting for everyone else to finish, Why not spend it implementing something useful like allowing us to select referee & goalkeeper kits before kick-off or letting us pick stadium and weather options in ML, League and Cup games?

Madmac79 said:
@MafiaMurderBag loved the first episode of your All Star League. It truly does have a marked nostalgic taste, probably cause All-Stars are pretty much a thing of the past in football, but as a kid I used to go crazy for the rare events they were in. Also, unlockable All Stars in old football games were the stuff of magic to me as well :D .

By the way, Pes 10 looks fantastic for your kind of videos. Outstanding variety in those highlights. I feel sympathy for North American AS. They look so bad despite being a selection of besties :D !
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Yeah I think in recent years the novelty of charity games & World XI's or Club XI's have dwindled and aren't as popular anymore, And yeah you're right about the All Star teams in football games being a nice little treat to earn in the older games.

This is what I mean about a game like PES 2010, It's so similar to PES 5 & 6 in that you get so much diversity out of a seemingly limited engine compared to what we have nowadays, It really is amazing how Konami could bring these games to life with the limited tech they had to work with. I think this game has some of the most lifelike animations too which also helps invoke a tremendous sense of emotion too.
 
Since a played a ML a few years back on Pes 12,and liking it,I decided to give it a go on a few exhibition games again.
Feels faster than I remember,and I acctually like 13 over it,though it was the other way around last time.
But,I still think it looks better,some great lightning in this game
 
@rockstrongo: You and PES13: a beautiful relationship right there. One might even try out newer games and all that, but it's impossible not to "come home" to our preferred titles...

@MafiaMurderBag: I'm halfway through your (as usual, awesome) video and I suddenly had this realization: PES10 is one of those retro-PES titles that is easier to appreciate as a retro game than the modern title it once was. Konami was still trying to recover from the PES08 disaster and, conversely, FIFA was on its absolute peak, overshadowing the competition at the time. Now, I look back and can't help but feel that PES10 is a unique PES on all aspects, from the instantly recognizable gameplay and graphics to the excellent soundtrack and menu design. Whether we like it or not, this version had character, it stands out from the pack.
You might like to try out some adventure on PES10 controlling a weaker team. It's (even more) like HD PES5. Great memories, trying to win the World Cup with North Korea and the like...

@Heisenberg: That's amazing news. I remember you considered quitting editing, I'm glad you're still "feeling it"! How's the ISO editing? Never got into it, but I've seen there are lots of possibilities there, judging by the wonderful graphic work I've seen PSP editors do over the years.

About the Libero, this was my vision for it: a site with fresh content everyday for multiple (retro, obviously) games. But in order to achieve that I can't do it alone, even if I have loads of new ideas to explore. I don't want it to be a just a blog with a few posts published once in a while, I want it to absolutely kick ass because to me the concept is worth exploring.

---
Meanwhile I've been playing around with PES14 for the PSP, started a ML with a custom team filled with some of the database's cheapest players - which means there's a lot of crap on the roster, but a few positive surprises here and there. This is a game I've played extensively over the years, whose gameplay is the same as the previous 4/5 chapters - which I've also played a lot of -, which in turn has almost the same gameplay as PES08 PSP (played this a lot too), which in turn is basically PES6 with a few tweaks...and, naturally, I played loads of PES6. I should know everything about this title; yet on my first 7 matches, I win the first and lose the other 6, some were even heavy defeats, against the likes of Fineesberg, Alchmendolf, those fake teams which should be a bit easier to beat than the real ones. My friends, when a game is amazing, it's amazing now and it'll be amazing 20 years later. It's magic.
 
@miguelfcp thanks Miguel,yeah it's pretty damn good!
I had a lengthy run on it on my Xbox 360 around 2013-14.
Remember having 4 seasons with Boro,went from 6th in the championship then all the way to a 2nd place in the premiership on those 4 seasons.
Moved on to Torino and a couple of more seasons.

Re bought Pes 10/11/12/13/14 on PS3 long after selling my 360,had a few good seasons on both 12&13.
But I hated that PS3 with a vengeance,can't believe it's a last gen machine (yet) felt like a very old one.

Bought a 360 3-4 month's ago,with Pes 6/12/17 plus FIFA 7/8/9/10/11.

Fun fact ,this Pes 13 I'm playing,is the same Pes 13 disc I had originally,I kept it, forgot about it,but found it inside a blank dvd cover.
Kinda wish my old save was saved as well,but no such luck.
Nice being back fighting the good cause again brother
 
@miguelfcp Absolutely, Even down to the formation screens, The swansong of the vintage PES style navigation before the switch to the drag & drop game plans which as far as I'm concerned they've never manage to polish year on year.

The old one's were perfectly functional and served muscle memory well. Now there's TOO much of a dumbing down of these screens with shoving "simple settings" down your throat to cater to the lowest common denominator. But alas the tactical depth isn't there with modern games anyway so what's the use in complaining?

Well, When I did my WC2010 playthrough, I played with a lot of weak teams too and it's an experience for sure. The lack of assured quality and passing makes your moments even more rewarding for sure. The only issue I had with it is that players with lower dribbling stats seemed to do this coerced ➡➡⬆ turn when you simply wanted to change direction.

It's hard to explain/understand unless you've played it but again, A bizarre animation that debuts in this game and is never seen since. So safe to say that idea was a failure and banished from the code once feedback from the non obligated masses reached those offices. After all this was back then when they had even more clandestine, covert playtesting with glad handed clueless press who didn't want to bite the hand i guess.
 
@MafiaMurderBag the animation you are talking about is also in Pes 2011, although it's more rare to see. It randomly happens to, of course, low stats dribbling players. In 2011 they still had the idea to unlock fluid change of directions only for players above a certain dribbling value, so I guess they didn't completely discarded the general concept yet (like they effectively did for 2012).
 
miguelfcp said:
@Madmac79: Clearly the (your) ML World experienced a virus that led the Italian government to establish a quarantine lockdown. That round of the Coppa Italla will be played virtually through Pro Evolution. It's the only possible explanation.
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Being Italy, it is just as likely that a discovery of widespread corruption had been made, and that most of the teams in the league had consequently gone bust, and the rest were going to be in limbo while their owners get investigated over the following ten years!

2011

At the start of this season, I bought a young Minanda; I wanted to see how good a level I can develop a prime Minanda to. I also bought Roberto Muzzi as a young forward; I wanted a striker without having a huge star to have the pressure of getting the best out of, and I have fond memories of using him one and a half decades or more ago with great success as a cheap striker. I can't remember now, but I think that was in PES 3. I initially decided not to get a third keeper to replace Zamenhof, who had retired at the end of 2010, but by midseason I had changed my mind due to Ivarov and Martyn often getting tired, so at that point I added a clubless German with a strange name beginning with P (nobody famous, can't remember the spelling).

I started off in wobbly fashion, results wise; I played well enough against FC Utrecht in the opening league game but gave them their only shot of the match with an impatient roll out by Ivarov, and so lost 1-0. I got off to a good start in the qualification for the CL though, and ended up winning that group. It took me about ten league games to start getting consistent (I'd beaten Bayern and PSV but drew with bottom of the league teams like Marseille and Nimejegen), and luckily most other teams were having similar problems, though Monaco, Benfica and PSV had both gotten off to good starts. I beat Marseille in the first round of the D1 cup, and just before the Xmas break I beat Werder Bremen 2-1 in the first leg of the quarters. In the main group stage of the CL, I met Inter, AC Milan and Real Betis, a hard group on paper but I won the group comfortably as no other team was dominating their opponents, and I only lost once, to Inter, who crept through in second place ahead of city rivals AC.

By this point, I was scoring regularly though not in great quantities, and with a great variety of players; this season I seem to be getting a lot of corner goals, including from a number of defenders. Jaric, my main free kick taker now, has been scoring a few goals including a fine one from open play. He played one-twos with a number of team mates, progressing up the field, finally combining with Ximelez before firing it past the keeper. Huylens hadn't been scoring much in the league, though I've been winning a fair few spot kicks, which comprised most of his tally of 5 goals at the Xmas break, when he announced his retirement. "But you're only 40 years old", I pleaded, "don't stop yet!". The game tells you for the first time what their career tally is in goals and assists, plus number of games. He was a few shy of 100, and I am sure he has passed that milestone now, happily.

After the break my improvement has continued; I'm scoring more often and losing less (lost five so far, but just once I think in this second part of the season), and Huylens got his first hat trick of 2011 a few games back. In fact he scored 4 against Marseille in our second meeting (having drawn the first league encounter 0-0), with Castolo adding a fine fifth. On that occasion, I started Castolo on the left side of attack, but changed the role to CF.

In D1 cup, there was bad news; despite going ahead early in the second leg against Werder Bremen, they scored two away goals in the second half, and with my struggling to get the ball forward to score a vital winner, they scored a third near the end and I was out. They went out in the semis though, and the cup has now been won by Ajax against Benfica. In the CL, I beat PSV in the quarters and Chelsea in the semis, and will face Roma in the final. I beat Roma in the semis of one of my Uefa cup wins, but that was a two leg game and I didn't win both legs. Who knows what will happen in the final. They have Tomas Brolin as part of their attacking trident, and he is the top assister in the competition; the result is hard to predict but I am confident there will be goals aplenty in normal time.

In the league, there are just three games remaining, and I find myself at the top of the league. Beating PSV in the league a few matches back helped me a lot, as it put a stop to a run of wins for them, and they didn't win their next two matches either. However it is very close, with both PSV and Rhone two points behind me. Benfica, Monaco and Ajax are about ten points further behind the front three, so no threat. Bayern are steadily becoming worse as the years go by, and are currently 8th (16 teams in the league).

I have a total of four matches to play then, with two major trophies which I haven't won yet at stake. A lot is riding on my mind being in PES mode when I next load it up, and doing my team justice. It would be excellent to give Huylens another top scorer accolade, though he is currently a few behind Chevanton of Monaco. He has had a decent season anyway, and I just hope I can get him a D1 league championship before he retires.

I've been scoring some nice goals recently thanks to my better form, creating some nice fast moves and accurate, well timed free passes; played a one-two between Barcao and Ordaz to bypass the back four, then hit a first time lob with Barcao to score from just outside the area. I did it the proper way with L1+square button, but I often find the results unpredictable (depends a lot on the angle your player is in relation to the goal I think, as well as how fast they are running relative to the ball), so have gone back to a technique I have found useful in the past- doing a free pass lob. On this occasion though I relied on the proper technique and thankfully it came off marvellously. I also scored a lovely header with Hamsun in another game- first a high, arcing header from CM Machado to Burchet on the right wing. The Aussie chested it then immediately volleyed it across his chest to the right, sending it to the edge of the 18 yard box where Hamsun powered the ball into the corner. The ball hadn't touched the ground between the three players.

Another thing I've noticed (for the first time or simply forgotten?) is that to cross to the man in the centre, you don't press the directional stick I had been exasperated for months because I couldn't understand why almost all my crosses were getting sent to the opposite side of the box, bypassing my CF, until I realised yesterday that I always point the stick up or down to aim the cross at the box, when you don't need to. Sure enough, I've been putting the ball in the middle of the box now, and managed to score a couple of times. Finally, a little trick to get more variety in crossing that occurred to me a few weeks ago; hitting a cross when it is bouncing gives you a dipping trajectory that can bypass tall defenders with a bit of luck, and makes for a pleasing cross. It can happen if you run onto a bouncing ball from, for example, a throw-in aimed down the line, but I first came across it by accident when I mistakenly lifted the ball slightly with Burchet when I had meant to feint and change direction. This lifted the ball over the nearby defender's leg, getting me past him, and when I hit the cross it arced in pleasingly and found my forward (who missed!).
 
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Madmac79 said:
@MafiaMurderBag the animation you are talking about is also in Pes 2011, although it's more rare to see. It randomly happens to, of course, low stats dribbling players. In 2011 they still had the idea to unlock fluid change of directions only for players above a certain dribbling value, so I guess they didn't completely discarded the general concept yet (like they effectively did for 2012).
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This must go back to the beginning because there's a quote from Seabass in the PES 5 guide about how those players with high skills (response for example) use less animation frames to do whatever it is they are doing at that moment. Quite a good way of representing it I thought. I imagine it progressed into what you are describing here. I remember with our Amador OF I saw what I thought were new things that I had never seen in years of playing PES6 which I later realised must have been this less/more animation frames in action.
 
@MafiaMurderBag: That's sad to hear. So football gaming is coming full circle? As in, it started as a simple, accessible but depth-lacking distraction, then evolves onto a promising simulation (ISS Pro Evo up until the early PES PS2 days) then devolves over time onto...a depth-lacking distraction...?!

Well, you can only be mentioning the iconic PES210 Turn. The player kind of stops the ball and then moves sideways in a single animation, right?

@Early PES footy fan: It's incredible that we still find new things about these games after all these years. And man, I don't think I've ever seen anyone getting as much out of Huylens (previously known as Oranges00-something...) as you've managed to. Not even close. He's always been a kind of super-sub for me (mediocre-sub, I mean), once in a while scoring that equalizer on extra-time after being subbed in on the 85th minute, replacing a Castolo without any energy left on the stamina bar because of his late-night adventures around town on the night before the game.
 
Early PES footy fan said:
Being Italy, it is just as likely that a discovery of widespread corruption had been made, and that most of the teams in the league had consequently gone bust, and the rest were going to be in limbo while their owners get investigated over the following ten years!
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Dude stop with the flattering, you're making me blush!
 
@rockstrongo I thought it was obvious to be on over 15.5 goals for the two games. :LOL: Maguire and Gomez, what an England CB pairing on that showing. How Leicester ever got 80m for Maguire I don't know.
 
Madmac79 said:
@MafiaMurderBag the animation you are talking about is also in Pes 2011, although it's more rare to see. It randomly happens to, of course, low stats dribbling players. In 2011 they still had the idea to unlock fluid change of directions only for players above a certain dribbling value, so I guess they didn't completely discarded the general concept yet (like they effectively did for 2012).
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Had a quick go on PES 2011 last night and yeah you're right however it's a lot quicker and a bit more tolerable because of the 360 degree movement.
mattmid said:
This must go back to the beginning because there's a quote from Seabass in the PES 5 guide about how those players with high skills (response for example) use less animation frames to do whatever it is they are doing at that moment. Quite a good way of representing it I thought. I imagine it progressed into what you are describing here. I remember with our Amador OF I saw what I thought were new things that I had never seen in years of playing PES6 which I later realised must have been this less/more animation frames in action.
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Yeah I agree, But in fairness, This period in football is a bit of a cross-roads with how average professional footballers and their dribbling ability is conveyed. Even your worse defenders for top flight teams should have capable agility when doing simple turns, Of course some more elegantly than others like your Ferdinand's and Maldini's but I think 10 years ago when these games were based compared to present day, Where almost every footballer is a super athlete to the point where most footballers are all rounders now, The slow turning/dribbling animation wasn't such a necessity in my opinion even back then. I think as you say it was a way of representing the difference between a Messi/Ronaldo and a Vidic/Agger but perhaps too exaggerated in the latter.

miguelfcp said:
@MafiaMurderBag: That's sad to hear. So football gaming is coming full circle? As in, it started as a simple, accessible but depth-lacking distraction, then evolves onto a promising simulation (ISS Pro Evo up until the early PES PS2 days) then devolves over time onto...a depth-lacking distraction...?!
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It appears so, At least a compromise I think. You can get some realistic enjoyment out of PES 2021 & maybe FIFA but you do have to customize your game settings to look for it. Game speed, Passing/shooting assistance, sliders on the latter, tweaking tactics etc... You basically have to Frankenstein your own game in order to make it more stimulating to play which as a consumer looking for a certain experience isn't always ideal especially when both mainstream games go in the same direction rather than just one of them, giving you an alternative.

I came up with a saying that "These used to be football games, Now they're just games based on football."

Gran Turismo is a racing game, The prefix is the specialist subject that is the priority and is going to be represented faithfully, You can't be disappointed if you play it when you don't even like racing.

GTA is a fun game that's based on racing/driving as a core but it's an exaggerated and accessible version of driving that anyone can pick up and play with out the consequences of not driving properly but there's more attractive activity's on top of the driving fundamentals to accomplish such as missions, Earning money and collecting novelties. Kind of like football games now. The football is the basis but the priority is the engagement with novelty modes such as myClub & FUT and the quickest way to get the player to interreact with these squad building and pack opening screens before they back to the "grind" of playing a football match to get them back to these dopamine triggering pack reveal screens for their rewards than back to the pitch and so on. It's a cycle.

Anyway, Yes that's my take on the philosophy of football gaming over the last 20 years. Started as a novelty distraction, Then they pushed boundaries to see how uncannily they can represent the sport digitally and now we're back to a cutthroat competitive distraction, vying for the consumers attention before they take their money elsewhere and chase their thrills in Fortnite and Roblox.
 
Madmac79 said:
@MafiaMurderBag the animation you are talking about is also in Pes 2011, although it's more rare to see. It randomly happens to, of course, low stats dribbling players. In 2011 they still had the idea to unlock fluid change of directions only for players above a certain dribbling value, so I guess they didn't completely discarded the general concept yet (like they effectively did for 2012).
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As i have posted in the past, since i have played PES 2011 with all 3 means, with keyboard, with D-Pad and with Analog stick. There are many "tiers" of movement, 16-D on rails, pseudo 360, full 360. What i have seen is, it is a lot complicated, it depends on player stats, plus imput method you use ,arrows/DPAD or L-Stick, plus some player traits, they used to be skill cards IIRC back then, in the PLAYER INDEX and they had number, S-XY and P-XY, some of them are the Playstyle of today, linke anchorman,goalpoacher etc.

I have noticed for example that the most flexible 360 movement with sharp turning were players that had a specific skill card, i cannot recall now as i am not on my PC, but it was an S-something and was common skill card for MESSI, ARSHAVIN, ROBBEN for example. In the terrbile Greek translation the card had the name "Kamikaze". Checking now in pesmaster i assume this card was the "Speed Marchant"? Players with this skill card were extremelly OP in both Online and Offline Master League , back then.

Then it was the skill card "Shoulder Feint" which by translation i assume it lets you make feints with the shoulders????? But what i noticed it worked in game was, it made your player turn more on "Rail channels" like the PS2 era movement, but when you were in the sideline, your player could walk nearby an opponenet SB and put his shoulder, for a shoulder to shoulder challenge and he was shielding the ball while running in the wing. Other players that did not have "Shoulder Feint" were more vulnerable to be intercepted by SBs..

But as you all said, after 2012 it was more simplified to adapt to the 360 and the new option to choose movement method between D-pad or Analog.

Keep in mind also that it was the last year of the stat "AGILITY"...Which Agility in the PS2 era definied players like : Aimar, Vicente, Mitea, etc.

https://www.pesmaster.com/messi/pes-2011/player/7511/

https://www.pesmaster.com/robben/pes-2011/player/3997/

https://www.pesmaster.com/arshavin/pes-2011/player/5786/
 
What i believe that KONAMI does wrong in the newer versions, is they are adding things, but make it more rigid and binary. IE you have a FW player that is Fox in the Box, or Target Man. In those old version the FOx in the Box would play as a CF and inside the box he would be a "FOX". In the most new versions, a FitB or a Target Man, if you do not play them with crosses, are as generic as possible, they keep standind like a cone.

Or a player back in PS3-era, having the attacking full back and playing as SB, would make runs forward but under circumstances, now it is more "i am attacking full back, i must always run forward, even if we get hammered by opponenet team and we are guarding the clean sheet behind with our life".

Or the most prominents i have seen, a player with Weighted Pass trait, will always pass all passes being slow and wieghted, no matter the stats and the situtation.

Furthermore a player who is a "Super-sub", start him in starting IX and he will play slower than Peter Crouch. Keep him in bench and sub him in , after 60' and he will play like prime Ronaldo (phenomeno).

I mean it is nice to have more than 30 playstyles and traits today, but if they are bad optimised and work ignoring stats and game context, they are just rigid add-ons.
 
@MafiaMurderBag: it's ironic that technology has improved so much that you can recreate a hyper-realistic version of football and now that they have it...they prefer to waste it in pursuit of the cheap microtransaction money. Back in the PS2 days Seabass and others would certainly have sold their grandmothers for the possibility of working with such advanced tech, they'd be salivating just thinking about the things they could do with it in the name of an ever-more-realistic football simulation...

I don't play it so my opinion is probably worthless, but by what I see, the main thing that strikes me on those gameplay videos (on both FIFA and PES, really) is how their versions of football look rather...plastic. To me it looks like the visual representation of a 12-year-old's football fever dream. PES5 being the fever dream of an experienced 3rd division manager, one who has seen too much sh*t, the John Wayne of football games. The new ones do seem to have brilliant features obviously but overall, they look to me as if they've yet to grow hair in their balls and their voice hasn't broke yet. Like you've brilliantly put it, they're games based on football, so that might explain why they feel a bit off. But then again, I saw a video a while ago where the leader of the FIFA design or whatever confesses she is not even a football fan...do I need to say more?
 
slamsoze said:
What i believe that KONAMI does wrong in the newer versions, is they are adding things, but make it more rigid and binary. IE you have a FW player that is Fox in the Box, or Target Man. In those old version the FOx in the Box would play as a CF and inside the box he would be a "FOX"
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All these roles, to my mind, are exactly where PES has gone down the wrong path. Fox in the Box? If you're striker has good response, agility, acceleration then it's highly likely he'd be at least something of a fox in the box. He doesn't need a card to make him one. So you have a 200cm, 200lb striker with the acceleration of a tortoise and the response time of a sloth but give him the fox in the box card and he's suddenly Michael Owen? What absolute nonsense. By definition of his stats he's going to be a lower league target man.
 
mattmid said:
All these roles, to my mind, are exactly where PES has gone down the wrong path. Fox in the Box? If you're striker has good response, agility, acceleration then it's highly likely he'd be at least something of a fox in the box. He doesn't need a card to make him one. So you have a 200cm, 200lb striker with the acceleration of a tortoise and the response time of a sloth but give him the fox in the box card and he's suddenly Michael Owen? What absolute nonsense. By definition of his stats he's going to be a lower league target man.
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Although they are not accurate and I am pretty sure they do not work in game, according to the description, (maybe even the translation being KONAMish), in my mind I separate them, according to my feeling of real-life football. It is not absolute though, neither means I am correct.

CF-Strikers PES styles:
Target man: Are players like Crouch, Andy Caroll, Jan Koller, clearly good at headers, almost useless in the rest area.

Goalpoachers: Every fast Striker, with average height, decent and over technic, like Ronaldo, Eto'o, Henry, Shevchenko, David Villa, Anella, Djibril Cisse, general strikers that can start and create situations, starting even from LMF position and transitioning to CF.

Finally the Fox in the Box: I sort here players that are faster then their height allows usually, or more technical, like Drogba or Haaland or Ibrahimovic, although the 3 previous I mentioned, have already more speed and Technique than their body type allows. I mean they are viable far from the penalty box, but in the Box is where they shine.

Of course this is a result of modern football all around esque.if someone in the 90s would tell me that Suker or Raul must come in midfield and mark players or play as a situational side midfielder, I would call him crazy.

To be honest when I first read the description of Fox in the box, back in the days, I thought it would relate to players like, Paul Scholes, who were clearly MFs but used to penetraye the opponent penalty box and score goals.

And always there are exceptions like Thomas Müller, players that after 15 Yeats, still do not know what's their actual position in the pitch :P
 
miguelfcp said:
@Heisenberg: That's amazing news. I remember you considered quitting editing, I'm glad you're still "feeling it"! How's the ISO editing? Never got into it, but I've seen there are lots of possibilities there, judging by the wonderful graphic work I've seen PSP editors do over the years.

About the Libero, this was my vision for it: a site with fresh content everyday for multiple (retro, obviously) games. But in order to achieve that I can't do it alone, even if I have loads of new ideas to explore. I don't want it to be a just a blog with a few posts published once in a while, I want it to absolutely kick ass because to me the concept is worth exploring.
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Well, I'm just starting out in this world of "professional" publishing. With time and encouragement, my idea is to make a patch of the PES2008 Classic Laziale on PS2 and I have already controlled the insertion of kits and faces.
 

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After having a few weird games in my Pes 13 ML on TP,I switched to SS and the game feels "fair" again,don't know how else to describe it.
On TP it felt that I got nothing,had to work very hard to grab points,but the CPU could score quite easily,and very weirdly too.
Don't like to throw the scripting card around,but...yeah!

Still a very low free kick count.
Despite that,liking it a lot,haven't played any other football game since starting this.
 
2011

Can't believe it. Lost the CL final, as I feared, with it being my first game after loading back up. Brolin scored quite early for Roma, and I was playing poorly. I brought Espimas on late in the game for Burchet, in the right wing role. A low ball into the box by Effenberg was met by Espimas, who would retire at the end of the season, and the Frenchman made me very happy by sweeping the ball into the opposite corner with his left foot in the 77th minute, despite the efforts of the defender to put him off. Unfortunately Brolin set up a winner in extra time, and Roma won. Maradona of Real Madrid ended as the cup top scorer, and Brolin had the most assists with an impressive 7. Liverpool won the Uefa cup against Arsenal.

With three games left in the league and two points between me and PSV, I had to carry on my winning league form. For two games I managed it with aplomb, reaching a fine total of 15 for Huylens and achieving slightly more points and goals for the team than ever before. Alas, it wasn't enough, as in the final match against Dynamo Kiev I flopped, losing 2-0. PSV won 2-1, and they won the title again. All I needed was a draw! I can't believe I threw it all away. A season of a number of good performances and goals, but once again I failed to win enough when it mattered most, and won nothing despite all my good matches. Farfan of PSV took the top goalscorer award with 17, though my midfielder Gabi was voted player of the season in my league. He, along with Jaric, Ordaz and Hamsun, made a considerable contribution to my goal tally with 5 each. Machado, my still young Brazilian CM, scored just twice despite often coming very close. He nevertheless is a favourite of mine, tall and strong with good skills, and gets forward at every opportunity. His luck just needs to change next year and I think he could net half a dozen or more with the number of chances he gets.

AC Milan had a poor year in the CL, but won their league by 15 points clear of Juve. Inter outperformed their city rivals in the CL and had been strong in the league for most of the year, but fell back to fourth at the end, behind Roma. Real Madrid narrowly pipped Barca by a few points, and Chelsea took the title by about 5 points ahead of Man Utd. At just one point, PSV had the narrowest victory.

Huylens and Espimas have now retired. The Dutch goal poacher supreme played 180 games in all competitions over 7 seasons, making 17 assists and scoring a prodigious 108 times, a better ratio than all other retiring strikers this year (including the likes of Pauleta at PSG, and Vieri of Milan). That's 0.6 goals a game! Espimas had a good career, though faded in his importance to the side in the last two years, and in the final one he was soon relegated to an occasional starter. In 139 appearances he netted 17 times and made 7 assists, a better result than I have managed with him in previous recent playthroughs, so I am glad that I tried playing him in a different position to his designated RMF/WB role. Ordaz and Hamsun have a lot to live up to. Young Muzzi hasn't scored yet as I recall, but he can play both CF and WF positions and I often put him on late, and I'm happy with his performances.

I don't usually like Giersen, but he's developed into a good full back. So too Nachdechal, who is pretty nippy with decent passing and heading skills to boot. I'm rather jaded about not winning the title but I will rest for a while and go at it again next season, perhaps dipping into the transfer market for an extra midfielder to add depth to my bench now that Espimas has left.
 
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miguelfcp said:
But then again, I saw a video a while ago where the leader of the FIFA design or whatever confesses she is not even a football fan...do I need to say more?
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I see what you are saying, but a month or so back someone kindly posted a video behind the scenes of the PES 1 team, and I think a number of them said they weren't football fans. I don't know how much significance it has, it probably matters more in this case because it is the leader of the team or design section. I can't recall if the leaders of the PES 1 project were footy fans or not.
 
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