The Retro-PES Corner

Mikhail said:
I'm going to start a PES 2013 Master League. Haven't decided which team I'm using yet, probably Newcastle United.

I've got a 15-16 Season Patch installed, it's very good. I've just created 20 Premier League stadiums, took me all day. Yep, I spend my week off from work doing stuff like this, reminds me of the good ol days.

I'll report back with my findings. Top Player or Superstar? I don't remember how difficult PES 2013 is in Master League?
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After you bigging it up here and in the 2020 thread, I'm intrigued by 2013. 2009 - 2018 were my lost years. Don't have the hardware for PC, though. Worth it on PS3?

I'm 90% sure I had it for the PS2 but can't find it. Understand it's worth a few bob now.
 
mattmid said:
Ireland are a hell of a tough nut to crack, they get in their tackles, throw bodies in the way and have a top level keeper behind them. Fortunately Kokir came up with a moment of inspiration (lovely first touch!) and an unstoppable shot. I love Radmanovac, he bombs up and down that line and puts a good cross in too usually. I thought Tedic played well and Milosavljevic was excellent again. He won so many headers from Irish clearances and drove forward well from midfield when he got hold of it. Markovic can't seem to hit a clean shot and is heading everything miles over. He works hard though and wins the ball back quite a lot. This team really do play some nice football at times. If they can just put an end product on it...
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Honestly ...

WHAT a first touch for the goal.
 
Flipper the Priest said:
After you bigging it up here and in the 2020 thread, I'm intrigued by 2013. 2009 - 2018 were my lost years. Don't have the hardware for PC, though. Worth it on PS3?

I'm 90% sure I had it for the PS2 but can't find it. Understand it's worth a few bob now.
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If you don't mind playing vanilla version on PS3, yes it's well worth your time. My issue with the PS3 version is that I can't find any option files for it.
 
MafiaMurderBag said:
I'm glad you brought this up. In recent weeks i've been thinking about this every time a penalty comes up in one of my games then i forget to mention it in here. When i was a kid, I used to HATE this penalty system because of the simple reason why i love these games now. It's algorithm based.

Just like the algorithm is infused with the stats of your players to create this juxtaposition of individuality and a sense of unpredictability in open play by using limited technology to it's full potential, Konami understood there was a dilemma "How can we faithfully recreate the drama of penalty kicks in our game, With our limitations?" They applied this genius to the penalty kick system - The user gives the instructions; The player carries out the action. It's a simple formula that crafts that circle of mental challenge, Form and stat influenced game play that works so well.

I used to hate the lack of control i had over my penalty kicks when i was a kid but as an adult i understand what their vision was, It's a game interpreting reality - Now they're games that try to replicate reality & by giving the user too much cognitive control, Ironically it causes a strangely artificial replication of football. It's less about virtual players and recreating their nuances and what their capable of in certain situations and now it's about the human and his skill with the controller overriding that, Breaking the immersion in a way.

Notice how on PS2 PES there's not way you can ping pong the ball from the back line all the way up to attack with first time passes? It's literally impossible, Because the ball physics and context of your players position was correct all along - More realistic than it ever has been. The ball the simply runs out of momentum, It's spin betrays you and it;s just simply very difficult to pass the ball first time in a direction your not facing with out controlling and resetting yourself.

Nowadays the balls physics seem to just reset every time it's "possessed" by a new player, It almost resembles a hockey puck more than a football if anything which is why you see these videos of these guys patting themselves on the back like their some kind of football genius or like they've accomplished something significant that really anyone with could hand eye coordination and twitch reflexes can do on PA3. You're not playing or trying to recreate football, You're playing with a pinball machine in a stadium.
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mattmid said:
@MafiaMurderBag Couldn't agree more. That's the irony of the modern versions it isn't it? In trying to replicate football as you say they've got further away from a realistic representation of it when they already had the perfect idea - Use the player's individual stats to affect the outcome of their actions and then make adjustments on those base figures by taking into account their body position, are they being challenged, are they off balance, are they on their weaker foot and so on. Get that right and things will look realistic.
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I couldn't agree more with these two posts. This is exactly why I love playing retro PES whether it be against the CPU or my brother.

When I am playing against my brother we hardly say that ‘i’ or ‘you’ are playing well during a match. It is more like ‘this team’ or ‘this player’ is excellent. If Ronaldo missed a penalty we would blame the player or the goalkeeper, if saved, rather than ourselves.

That is what is so good about the retro stats system. When a player misses a chance or scores a great goal we keep a mental note and make sure that he is picked or dropped in the next game. It really does depend a lot on his stats along with our input.

Using Ronaldo as an example again. In our cup that we are playing, Ronaldo has played in the Portugal, Real Madrid, and Juventus teams (our cup has been played over a couple years and players do not get ‘cup tied’ in our cup) and he has been the driving force in their games. You can really feel the difference in his quality. When Juventus (with Ronaldo) played Real Madrid, Bale had a blue arrow but I played him anyway and he done nothing whereas Ronaldo was everywhere. But once again, I had to stop Ronaldo, not my brother even though he was controlling him.

In today’s game i feel that if someone scores a worldly goal the praise goes to the person controlling the player rather than the player himself.
 
geeeeee said:
When I am playing against my brother we hardly say that ‘i’ or ‘you’ are playing well during a match. It is more like ‘this team’ or ‘this player’ is excellent. If Ronaldo missed a penalty we would blame the player or the goalkeeper, if saved, rather than ourselves.
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That is so true. I think I mentioned it somewhere back in this thread, something like this - We decide what our player is going to do - he decides how well it will be done. Take that goal Kokir scored for Serbia today with the excellent first touch. His Technique stat is 70 and he's right footed, if it was 55 or he was left footed with a low value week foot stat he'd never have been able to execute that. On the modern games it feels like as long as the 'user' can do it, the player can.
 
Flipper the Priest said:
After you bigging it up here and in the 2020 thread, I'm intrigued by 2013. 2009 - 2018 were my lost years. Don't have the hardware for PC, though. Worth it on PS3?

I'm 90% sure I had it for the PS2 but can't find it. Understand it's worth a few bob now.
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I bought a PS3 just to be able to play Pes 10-11-12-13-14 a few years back,for the same cost as a brand new Pes 18 (then)
 
geeeeee said:
I couldn't agree more with these two posts. This is exactly why I love playing retro PES whether it be against the CPU or my brother.

When I am playing against my brother we hardly say that ‘i’ or ‘you’ are playing well during a match. It is more like ‘this team’ or ‘this player’ is excellent. If Ronaldo missed a penalty we would blame the player or the goalkeeper, if saved, rather than ourselves.

That is what is so good about the retro stats system. When a player misses a chance or scores a great goal we keep a mental note and make sure that he is picked or dropped in the next game. It really does depend a lot on his stats along with our input.

Using Ronaldo as an example again. In our cup that we are playing, Ronaldo has played in the Portugal, Real Madrid, and Juventus teams (our cup has been played over a couple years and players do not get ‘cup tied’ in our cup) and he has been the driving force in their games. You can really feel the difference in his quality. When Juventus (with Ronaldo) played Real Madrid, Bale had a blue arrow but I played him anyway and he done nothing whereas Ronaldo was everywhere. But once again, I had to stop Ronaldo, not my brother even though he was controlling him.

In today’s game i feel that if someone scores a worldly goal the praise goes to the person controlling the player rather than the player himself.
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Bang on! This is why I really love ML despite all of its flaws. When I bring a transfer in, it's like a new toy! Will he do better/worse, how will he fit in, etc. Adding a Ronaldo type player to your new is HUGE, and you can really see the difference in player quality.
 
The world turned upside down and inside out, the Dinner's head is spinning in bewilderment.

Konami have betrayed us all and I am issuing a call to boycott PES 2020 and all future iterations of this once noble game series, until players are once again individuals on the pitch, the game engine is once more realistic and unforgiving and the ball physics are returned to the spinning, looping and rebounding yesteryear editions wonderful movements.

I am writing this in an angry mood as have just seen that Konami have paid big to get the "exclusive" Juventus FC :MAD::MAD::MAD: license for PES 2020.

We are now seeing the absurd inversion of the past where FIFA, which I have never played, was all official licenses and paper thin gameplay that was laughably easy, so I was told.

Now Konami, who once only concentrated on the game and called teams superbly random names like Marche or Mato Grosso is using all it's resources to buy official licenses that no proper gamer could give a toss about.

Go to hell Konami......

:COAT::COAT::COAT:
 
Spot on guys. We've been saying this here for a while now, and eventually the "outside world" will catch on: there has to be a fine balance between user input and what the game does for you. Too much of the latter and you'd be basically a glorified spectator; too much of the former and you get...the modern football games' approach. Regardless of what anyone might feel about graphics/gameplay/audio/whatever, classic PES games undoubtedly nailed this fine balance. That's why they were fun to play fifteen/twenty years ago, are fun to play now and will still be fun to play many decades from now: your success on those games depend as much on your individual skill as on the players' attributes.

@geeeeee's words say it all:
When I am playing against my brother we hardly say that ‘i’ or ‘you’ are playing well during a match. It is more like ‘this team’ or ‘this player’ is excellent. If Ronaldo missed a penalty we would blame the player or the goalkeeper, if saved, rather than ourselves.
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This is really it. Modern football (sports...) games are all about the MYclub, MYTeam, MYPark, it's all about the "me". I haven't played online in a long time but I assume it'd be hard to find my way through it between all those hugely inflated egos.
That's not really my thing. When I'm playing, for example, a game of PES08 PS2 I'm immersing myself on that virtual world, it's almost as if for a while I'm completely absorbed in the action. There's no "me", there's no "you", there's just the game.

@WhoAteMeDinner: Either you die a PES, or see yourself become FIFA...a proper retro-PES motto right here :DD
 
Mikhail said:
If you don't mind playing vanilla version on PS3, yes it's well worth your time. My issue with the PS3 version is that I can't find any option files for it.
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Given that it's only a few quid I'll buy it anyway but what am I looking at in terms of editing if there aren't any option files? There's a limit to how much I can be bothered doing in game! All I really care about is:
  • Correcting fake names (teams and players)
  • Removing classic/retired/fake/duplicated players from Master League
 
Match Day #28


Germany v Poland
An emphatic win for Germany as they continue to look the team to beat. Efficient, ruthless and with one of the moves of the tournament for Meier's goal after some great passage of play ending with a delightful little ball from Raschl for Meier to head home. Poland although rarely able to impose themselves actually had 3 really good chances from their meagre 4 shots. Zjawinski had the best of them, catching the ball in on the volley absolutely superbly only to see if fly over the bar.

One of the goals of the tournament had it gone in. At 2-0 that may just have given a way back into the game for Germany but probably not. Later sub Rosolek met a corner with a lovely glancing header that just faded away past the far post. But, those moments aside it was all Germany. The defence swallowed up everything Poland could muster and the midfield bossed the game. Germany's wide men weren't at their best and when Kehr came on for Abouchabaka and went up front with Kuhn moving out wide that was the turning point from being well on top to making it count.

For Kehr though there was a moment that went from bad to worse. As he bundled home the ball near the line he got scythed down from behind. The referee gave the penalty even though replays showed the ball was already in before he was fouled meaning Kehr was robbed of a goal. For Kehr, t went from bad to worse after the game when the medical staff announced he would not play again this tournament due to the injury.


M.o.M Meier The talented Meier has not even played in his best position yet this tournament (SM) but continues to perform at a high level. He was at the centre of everything and scored a nice header to round off the move of the game.


Up: The entire German defence, three 7's and a 6.5 given by the PES ratings and rightly so. Until they relaxed a bit late on with the game won and Poland throwing men forward they had the back sewn up and marshalled the dangerous Zjawinski very well.

Up: Kehr a great 39 minute cameo, scoring 1 (2 really!) he prompted the constant threat the Germans had before he came on into goals. Sadly for him and the German side his tournament is over.

A good tournament for Poland was ended by a German side that was just too strong for them in the end. It wouldn't surprise me if they have just gone out to the Winners.
 
Mikhail said:
If you don't mind playing vanilla version on PS3, yes it's well worth your time. My issue with the PS3 version is that I can't find any option files for it.
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Flipper the Priest said:
Given that it's only a few quid I'll buy it anyway but what am I looking at in terms of editing if there aren't any option files?
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Try here, There's lots of option files from the 2012/2013 season, But no idea if the links work (They do for most Retro PES files) This sounds like it'll be the last update for 2013 season

https://www.pesoccerworld.com/descargar/option-file-pes-2013-alber-co-beta-6-3-4404.html

Others can be found below

https://www.pesoccerworld.com/descargas/pro-evolution-soccer-2013-ps3-option-file-793.html
 
mattmid said:
Match Day #28


Germany v Poland
An emphatic win for Germany as they continue to look the team to beat. Efficient, ruthless and with one of the moves of the tournament for Meier's goal after some great passage of play ending with a delightful little ball from Raschl for Meier to head home. Poland although rarely able to impose themselves actually had 3 really good chances from their meagre 4 shots. Zjawinski had the best of them, catching the ball in on the volley absolutely superbly only to see if fly over the bar.

One of the goals of the tournament had it gone in. At 2-0 that may just have given a way back into the game for Germany but probably not. Later sub Rosolek met a corner with a lovely glancing header that just faded away past the far post. But, those moments aside it was all Germany. The defence swallowed up everything Poland could muster and the midfield bossed the game. Germany's wide men weren't at their best and when Kehr came on for Abouchabaka and went up front with Kuhn moving out wide that was the turning point from being well on top to making it count.

For Kehr though there was a moment that went from bad to worse. As he bundled home the ball near the line he got scythed down from behind. The referee gave the penalty even though replays showed the ball was already in before he was fouled meaning Kehr was robbed of a goal. For Kehr, t went from bad to worse after the game when the medical staff announced he would not play again this tournament due to the injury.


M.o.M Meier The talented Meier has not even played in his best position yet this tournament (SM) but continues to perform at a high level. He was at the centre of everything and scored a nice header to round off the move of the game.


Up: The entire German defence, three 7's and a 6.5 given by the PES ratings and rightly so. Until they relaxed a bit late on with the game won and Poland throwing men forward they had the back sewn up and marshalled the dangerous Zjawinski very well.

Up: Kehr a great 39 minute cameo, scoring 1 (2 really!) he prompted the constant threat the Germans had before he came on into goals. Sadly for him and the German side his tournament is over.

A good tournament for Poland was ended by a German side that was just too strong for them in the end. It wouldn't surprise me if they have just gone out to the Winners.
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Really was a brilliant 1st goal. Ref should have just let the red card/pen goal stand and kept the match a little more interesting. Poland were so well beaten, Germany looking like favourites and CPU controlled ...

Maybe I should assume management duties and sabotage them completely. :P
 
sniglet said:
Really was a brilliant 1st goal. Ref should have just let the red card/pen goal stand and kept the match a little more interesting. Poland were so well beaten, Germany looking like favourites and CPU controlled ...

Maybe I should assume management duties and sabotage them completely. :P
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:D Somebody has to reign them in. :LOL: 4 of the 11 are in the Bayern Youth squad as well. @jihado86 will be pleased with them.
 
MafiaMurderBag said:
Try here, There's lots of option files from the 2012/2013 season, But no idea if the links work (They do for most Retro PES files) This sounds like it'll be the last update for 2013 season

https://www.pesoccerworld.com/descargar/option-file-pes-2013-alber-co-beta-6-3-4404.html

Others can be found below

https://www.pesoccerworld.com/descargas/pro-evolution-soccer-2013-ps3-option-file-793.html
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Cheers. Because I binned PES on PS3 at 2008 I wasn't sure whether you could even import OFs!

Are there any OF editors? Seems there are, based on my searching, but a lot of unclear info and broken links.
 
Aren't having photo realistic scanned faces of real players totally unnecessary and a load of old pony ?

Think about it, I saw a PES 2020 screenshot of the mug of Cristiano (CR 7) and it was more real looking than a real life picture of the eight-packed one. Given how most of us play PES at a stand-off camera angle in order to have any chance of winning at top difficulty level, how exactly can you see faces in detail at broadcast, wide or overhead camera setting ?

This photo realism thing is bonkers....
 
WhoAteMeDinner said:
Aren't having photo realistic scanned faces of real players totally unnecessary and a load of old pony ?

Think about it, I saw a PES 2020 screenshot of the mug of Cristiano (CR 7) and it was more real looking than a real life picture of the eight-packed one. Given how most of us play PES at a stand-off camera angle in order to have any chance of winning at top difficulty level, how exactly can you see faces in detail at broadcast, wide or overhead camera setting ?

This photo realism thing is bonkers....
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I put similar questions to option file editors in 2003 as they argued over eye colours and and nose widths.

And made reference way back in 2006: http://www.pesgaming.com/showthread.php?t=45741

Nice thing to have, but priorities!
 
Flipper the Priest said:
I put similar questions to option file editors in 2003 as they argued over eye colours and and nose widths.

And made reference way back in 2006: http://www.pesgaming.com/showthread.php?t=45741

Nice thing to have, but priorities!
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Exactly @Flipper the Priest , and Flipper, like most pretty things we don't need, people like PES coders get hung up on trivial and superficial things.

Looking at PES 6 default squad players faces, they all look instantly recognisable and even back in PES 2 days, players looked distinctive enough to be doing with.
 
Germany continues to be as solid as they'll need to eventually win this. Of all the favourites, it was the only one who took this competition seriously. The first goal was amazing, probably one of the best so far. I was a little bit disappointed with Abouchabaka but Meier completely took over the midfield - also, too bad for Kehr who played really well and it looked like, at last, Germany had found its starting-11 striker to complement its otherwise packed team.
 
@WhoAteMeDinner Exactly. As Flipper says priorities! Nice to have as a bonus but that's it. Skin colour and hair colour is more than enough really. Skin colour is now in the csv import which is a huge time saving, that was a horrible task before to edit.


@miguelfcp
I don't think Kehr should both doing the lottery any time soon with his luck!
 
WhoAteMeDinner said:
Aren't having photo realistic scanned faces of real players totally unnecessary and a load of old pony ?

Think about it, I saw a PES 2020 screenshot of the mug of Cristiano (CR 7) and it was more real looking than a real life picture of the eight-packed one. Given how most of us play PES at a stand-off camera angle in order to have any chance of winning at top difficulty level, how exactly can you see faces in detail at broadcast, wide or overhead camera setting ?

This photo realism thing is bonkers....
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That's where we're at now culturally with video games now. The bullet has left the barrel and cannot not be put back in and contemporary gamers and soon a whole new generation of gamers will be indoctrinated to expect a certain (and very high) standard regarding visuals.

It started last gen when we started 3D scanning actors into games and it was seen as an evolution of the medium in someways, As actors were recognizing and endorsing the medium (Or just liked the pay cheque as if it was hard to take no gaming actors opinion on games seriously) Now it seems to be the standard; 3D mocapping actors, Athletes, Models etc into games as the tech is there now. Games are slowly becoming a less about artistic skill, vision and interpretation and more about replicating the real world, So much as a priority that the most important factor, The stimuli - The gameplay is secondary or in some cases just gets straight up rejected.

From the birth of sophisticated Football gaming in 2000 until now, The games have evolved so much in 19 years but one can not only imagine but may be able to correctly predict how powerful technology will be in another 19 years, Where we'll be then?

Games look more photo realistic then ever but we still know they are software with flaws consciously. VR makes strides every year and where do we go from here - Anyone who's every watched Black Mirror probably has a grip on the morbose philosophy that can only come from trying to marry the virtual world with the real one.

If the socially inept and maladjsuted people are already vulnerable to the lure of these virtual worlds they value more over the real ones in games like WoW and various other guild type MMO's with those user bases growing every year... And with people who wouldn't have been caught dead once upon a time being considered being a prisoner of such an inanimate thing, now hooked on their smart phones combined with games being formulated to be addiction modules in the same way; Truly realistic virtual reality is going to be a bloody bad idea.
 
Yep, Big Brother meets Black Mirror meets Alexa or whatever that stupid Amazon or Google digital annoyance is called.

Alexa, can you please piss off.....

:NONO::NONO::NONO:
 
Hypothetical of course but it would be very interesting to see the sales figures if there were three games released at once today. FIFA 20, PES20 and an amalgamated "best bits" of PES 3/4/5/6 and WE equivalents, put together with up to date graphics/resolutions/players/teams, so appearance wise you would not know it was a gaming engine from retro PES.

In fact have people test all three without knowing what they are. I wonder which the MyClub/FUT or whatever they are called, people would choose? That's assuming some of them have the ability to think for themselves of course.
 
People no need to choose the new gen or golden era. They can exist in parallel as a second product line. If Konami really want to earn money, why not remaster the golden era and release them and make online ML back. Just like WOW classic will back next month. No need to waste hugh amount of money on license and graphic design.
 
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