The Retro-PES Corner

miguelfcp said:
@geeeeee: Lately I've been diving deeper on WE9LE, as well as ISS Pro Evo on the PS1 - which is a hell of a fantastic game - can't believe its attacking AI is better than PES5...was absolutely surprised to see how well it holds up. If it could be as easily modded/edited like PES on the PS2, I'd be in heaven.

My experience with WE9LE, particularly with my tweaks to try to better the CPU attacking AI, led me to find a couple of old threads here on Evo-web in which you happen to participate, as you guys were trying to overcome that problem as well with stat tweaks and tactics. Haven't yet tried the stat tweaks, but did test a lot of tactics and strategies specifically created to build a more effective offensive organization for the CPU, but while I did see some improvements (like positioning the wingbacks higher up as in modern football, to create more passing lanes), it's still far, far from default PES6 on that regard...and may I say, even ISS Pro Evo! It's a shame, because the game is just fantastic overall, feels great playing it, but that attacking CPU man...now when played multiplayer/online, that's the stuff right there. Even if I was regularly beaten by the likes of @lazoli and @wildwind, it's absolutely fantastic.
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Personally I always found PES5 PS2 better than WE9LE probably because the PS2 has a slightly slower controller response time than the PC which meant it made it more challenging. Increasing Team Work by 15 for each player made the CPU better and increasing Shooting Acc for strikers and AMF’s also helped.

I was looking forward to my 2 games on PES2008 today but it was a bit dissapointing if I’m honest. The CPU was hounding me all over the pitch and whenever I made a tackle on a player, the same player would get the ball back again quite easily.

It was so different from yesterday’s games. The first game I was England v Slovenia and I lost 0-3 and the next game I was Netherlands v Poland and was 1-4 down before I turned it off. I cannot put my finger on why it was so tough. Is it because it is on Top Player? Is it because of my ‘Unofficial’ PS2 controller (which I always find rubbish nowadays)? Using the stick the passes go astray and the directional buttons are not as responsive. Or is it the adaptive AI which after 2 games has found out my weaknesses?

I will have another game tomorrow but this time on Professional and see if it makes much difference.
 
@geeeeee: Be careful with that adaptive AI, it's sneaky! When it comes to tactical depth, this game is top of my list because of that. If you make the right adjustment at the right time, even it's just a change of the defensive arrows or an adjustment of a player's position on the field, it might help you turn the entire game around in your favor. I remember often sliding Gutierrez more to the left - as a kind of "false winger" - to take advantage of a gap that I saw the opposition leave behind, exploitable for counter-attacks; or dropping my wingbacks deeper to form a 5-man defense if I was having trouble controlling the width of the opp.'s offense.

But of course, some games seem destined to result in a loss for us, even if I never go down without having first a tremendous tactical brawl with the CPU...:D
 
@ PES 5

Damn... i still haven't given up.
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PART II...

After countless reading through guides and studying videos of other players on youtube. It finally click'd a little more.

The most problem i had was defending. Here is what helped me:​
  • I muted the TV
  • I toggled the auto-switch player settings from " IIIIIIIIIII " to " IIIIIIIIIII "

The muting of the TV is good for concentration and best for the nerves, to stay calm :) But the most progress brought the changing of the auto-switching. I be honest, i really liked to play the game with less auto support, but that simply didn't work out for me...

Add these to the formula:​
  • You have to read the game
  • Get to know the CPU characteristic
  • RELAX - Don't run stupid on an attacker with your back men (especially if it's near the sideline, just be in front of him, so he will have to pass it to the middle. More chances of interceptions and less danger from crosses).

Also a great help was the "secret" trick of using super-cancel to take the ball from the opponent when you run side by side. I wonder, are there more "secret" controls stuff like this? I see the CPU sometimes pushing my player away when the ball comes in high. But when we are switched and i'm in his back i can't do sh*t, CPU stands like a statue.

And of course the "cheating" did not stop, i was in Konami-Cup Final leading 2:0 against Arsenal, in second half they score 2 goals inside 5 (game-) minutes... Exrtra Time - i loose 2:3 ... On second attempt i'm up again 2:0 and in second half i can feel my players suddenly not responding well, they feel slower & dumber. The CPU scores 2 goals (one because my defenders run into each other...!) Extra Time - i win (Penaltys) ...

It's like the CPU really wanted that final to go to extra time - it used two different methods, first they pumped up their stats - in the other method it drowned my stats (...clear as day).

It's still frustrating but it's also more fun. To be continued...
 
Hoshii said:
PART II...

After countless reading through guides and studying videos of other players on youtube. It finally click'd a little more.

The most problem i had was defending. Here is what helped me:​

  • I muted the TV
    I toggled the auto-switch player settings from " IIIIIIIIIII " to " IIIIIIIIIII "
The muting of the TV is good for concentration and best for the nerves, to stay calm :) But the most progress brought the changing of the auto-switching. I be honest, i really liked to play the game with less auto support, but that simply didn't work out for me...

Add these to the formula:​

  • You have to read the game
    Get to know the CPU characteristic
    RELAX - Don't run stupid on an attacker with your back men (especially if it's near the sideline, just be in front of him, so he will have to pass it to the middle. More chances of interceptions and less danger from crosses).
Also a great help was the "secret" trick of using super-cancel to take the ball from the opponent when you run side by side. I wonder, are there more "secret" controls stuff like this? I see the CPU sometimes pushing my player away when the ball comes in high. But when we are switched and i'm in his back i can't do sh*t, CPU stands like a statue.

And of course the "cheating" did not stop, i was in Konami-Cup Final leading 2:0 against Arsenal, in second half they score 2 goals inside 5 (game-) minutes... Exrtra Time - i loose 2:3 ... On second attempt i'm up again 2:0 and in second half i can feel my players suddenly not responding well, they feel slower & dumber. The CPU scores 2 goals (one because my defenders run into each other...!) Extra Time - i win (Penaltys) ...

It's like the CPU really wanted that final to go to extra time - it used two different methods, first they pumped up their stats - in the other method it drowned my stats (...clear as day).

It's still frustrating but it's also more fun. To be continued...
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You know what’s the key point in pes5,that was game changer for me back then.Try to receive and control every pass with R2 or whatever button you have for special control.It improves drastically your passing game and your possessions.Slow build up with good tiki-take is the key point in pes5.
 
Hi guy's a bit of shameless promotion, week days starting at between 2pm and 3pm GMT i am doing retro soccer streams on my Twitch channel, I am enjoying WE6FE and will be streaming it Mon,Tues and Thursday this week. come and drop by and say hello and lets have some chat about retro WE/PES!
 
geeeeee said:
...... Is it because of my ‘Unofficial’ PS2 controller (which I always find rubbish nowadays)? Using the stick the passes go astray and the directional buttons are not as responsive.....
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Speaking of controllers. Playing on PC, i used to use my original PS2 Controller (with USB addapter), then switched to PS3. But soon i discovert, that when you compare the PS2/PS3 joystick with the PS4 one you will see there is a BIG diffrence regards the analog sticks! The range/angle for the thumb to move is waaaayyyy shorter on the PS4 compared to others, so i just use the PS4 one :TWIST:

Regarding the difficulty level, i also dropped from 5* to 4* - there's no shame in that.
 
Hoshii said:
Speaking of controllers. Playing on PC, i used to use my original PS2 Controller (with USB addapter), then switched to PS3. But soon i discovert, that when you compare the PS2/PS3 joystick with the PS4 one you will see there is a BIG diffrence regards the analog sticks! The range/angle for the thumb to move is waaaayyyy shorter on the PS4 compared to others, so i just use the PS4 one :TWIST:

Regarding the difficulty level, i also dropped from 5* to 4* - there's no shame in that.
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For my mediocre skill level,I am terrible at fingers , playing the old games with analog is a dead end.It was pes2015 when I achieved to force my self to start playing with modern dual shocks.Until then it was keyboard to unlock the full potential of 8 directions.D-pad is the best choice I assume but I am ultra unskilled.But I can tell some universal big pros the keyboard and the d-pad has.The first for both of them is that you can walk/run I a straight line in the touch line like walking in a rope.With analogue stick a wrong direction and it locks you outside of the field,especially in PES where the timing of animations is hard-Locked.The d-pad secondly let’s you to push all the buttons simultaneously.I know it is possible with modern pc too,but back then in winxp era pushing more than 3 keys used to provide that weird tone/pulse from the pc and you could not input multiple taps in the same time.Third with keyboard when you run in diagonal direction if you make a piano-sequence you can achieve temporary 16 direction angles where the players produces short fake/dribble animations while changing the rail he is moving or when he fakes he will change direction and he returns to his proper rail.As I tried this with d-pad it was so difficult to achieve it,compared to keyboard.An example for this is if we assume you run straight and you push for a little bit the down arrow but as the player turns for the 45 degree direction he passes from a mid 22,5 degree.On the perfect timing you can release down arrow and press forward or up like a piano sequence and your player returns to his directions faking a turn with a cut to side animation.
 
Yes! I watched a guy play on youtube and i almost spit out my drink when he mentioned he's playing with keyboard. At first i thought that is a terrible idea, but his movement was very precise. Robot like. Still i couldn't play like this. For me widescreen and analog-stick controller are necessary - simpley even just of comfort reason (...was checking out some clipse of PES 2008 (PS2) but was quickly turned off from the 4:3 aspect ratio..).

That's true, the movement is very, very fine. I found that out in challenge-mode (training). But i still managed to master almost all of them with analog sticks, maybe i needed some good 100-150 tryies, but it is possible :)
 
@Grayperview: WE6FE, another version I've never played...good luck for your stream - nice idea by the way - and will try to drop by next week to watch a bit.

@mattmid: and, gentlemen, forget not that we shall introduce an inexplicable graphic lag on single player modes' gameplay! What?...It ruins the experience? Nonsense, we balanced it out with a revolutionary feature: if you pause the game, you can see the manager and the players on the bench.
God, I wish I was in those meetings.
 
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Hoshii said:
Speaking of controllers. Playing on PC, i used to use my original PS2 Controller (with USB addapter), then switched to PS3. But soon i discovert, that when you compare the PS2/PS3 joystick with the PS4 one you will see there is a BIG diffrence regards the analog sticks! The range/angle for the thumb to move is waaaayyyy shorter on the PS4 compared to others, so i just use the PS4 one :TWIST:

Regarding the difficulty level, i also dropped from 5* to 4* - there's no shame in that.
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My usb converter (play.com) doesn't work on windows 10 :( well it detects the converter but no the controllers plugged into it.
 
Group B Fixture 1 games...



I dropped down a level and also increased Cursor change assistance as i normally have it on manual. England’s game was tough but the Netherlands with the ultra fast and ultra skilled Robben was a bit easier once they scored but before that Poland had some chances.

I am hoping it was easier because of the teams and not just because i dropped down a level. I am just trying to find the right balance.
 
@Grayperview Maybe look for some drivers..?? Google some, i'm sure you won't be the only person on the planet that tried to connect a PS2 controller to Win10 ;-)

@geeeeee I would confidently say the changing of the auto-switching has the most effect in making the game easyier. At least from my own experiance. As i find it gets you more interceptions which leads to more chances on your side. With (almost) manual control i always just made 1-0, 1-1, 2-1 results like that. when i leave the same difficulty and just change the auto-switching results are more 2-0, 3-1, 2-3. A lot more goals, but i think if you have result like 2-3 that means you still have some holes in your defence you need to slowly find & fix.

Also i always feel kinda ashamed when i score a goal with just walking the ball over the line :LOL:

Do you use "holding down R2" a lot when defending (in general) - or to block crosses? I somewhere read that this is a vital strategie in PES 6 (2008 PS2 same engine)... not so much in PES 5.
 
Hoshii said:
@Grayperview Maybe look for some drivers..?? Google some, i'm sure you won't be the only person on the planet that tried to connect a PS2 controller to Win10 ;-)

@geeeeee I would confidently say the changing of the auto-switching has the most effect in making the game easyier. At least from my own experiance. As i find it gets you more interceptions which leads to more chances on your side. With (almost) manual control i always just made 1-0, 1-1, 2-1 results like that. when i leave the same difficulty and just change the auto-switching results are more 2-0, 3-1, 2-3. A lot more goals, but i think if you have result like 2-3 that means you still have some holes in your defence you need to slowly find & fix.

Also i always feel kinda ashamed when i score a goal with just walking the ball over the line :LOL:

Do you use "holding down R2" a lot when defending (in general) - or to block crosses? I somewhere read that this is a vital strategie in PES 6 (2008 PS2 same engine)... not so much in PES 5.
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I have been looking for 2 years, no joy at all.

Streamed we6fe today, the passing on this game is annoying as fuck, the more i play it the more the scripting becomes obvious...i also played some WE7Ij too, this was a more more enjoyable game of footy, the passing was crisp and felt in the players control... i think ill be streaming this from now on.
 
I just had a fantastic and strange match in my WC.

I was Mexico v Wales, within 14 mins Wales had Chris Gunter and Jazz Richards sent off. That is the first time (I think) that the CPU has had 2 sent off against and especially in the first 14 mins.

Peralta missed a penalty for the first sending off in the 7th min.

Despite the fact that Mexico were now dominating, Taylor scored a fantastic goal for Wales dribbling in from Wales’ right. Then in about the 36th min they got a free kick. Our man should have got at least a booking but he got nothing but Bale whacked in the free kick at about 100mph! 0-2 down against 9 man Wales.

Peralta then got a goal back for us. But then Giovanni dos Santos got sent off too in first half injury time. In the second half have Mexico had a few chances and I thought we were going to equalise but then Bale went on a dribble, did a few step overs, tried to chip the GK but didnt quite make it over him. The defender went to clear, there was a mass scramble which led to the GK then running back to goal and diving to stop a trickling ball going over the line only for Williams to smash it home and run around the stadium as if he won the WC!

It finished 1-3 but it was an absorbing game. I will upload highlights probably tomorrow, it’s a shame the highlight reel does not show everything though.

I thought I should mention that I had to pause the game and change controller settings so that I could make subs for the CPU otherwise I don’t think it would have brought 2 strikers off and bring on 2 defenders. The only down point but i can live with that ;)

Also @Hoshii , it definitely makes a difference with various cursor switching settings. I have gone for ‘1 bar’ as i found any higher made it slightly too easy. So now I can stay on Professional level and it is a good balance now. Thanks for the tip :)
 
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Inspired by you i also started Euro Cup - i play as Italia and are in the Final already, agains England!

No do overs - it's do or die.

The Semi Final against France was nerve wracking. It was 1:1 overtime and the french got a penalty! Gigi the beast has kept the draw and stretcht it into penalty decisions.

Fun fact: Buffon was substitution for second half - wise move..
 
Proudly presentet & sponsored by the "Hoshii Group"© with the unofficial help of "Konami"©

The FINAL of the EURO-Cup
* * * * Italy vs. England * * * *



Interviews after the match:
Yeah, as you can see i lost... They played well and i tried until the last minute, but without success. They actually had me quiet surprised with the two 'distant' shots, as no team i played before in this tournament has made use of them! I had my chances though. I came far and got blessed with a devastating defeat in finals, so close to the trophy. But it didn't go my way. As explanation i could say that i was extra nervous since it was my first time recording my self, and also with the thought in my head of releasing it to the public after, that made me play kinda unorthodox sometimes. Maybe it was not the best decision, but it is what it is. I also wanted to finally have my own video up on youtube after watching tons of videos from other peoples lol. You either win - or you learn...simple as that.
Hope you enjoyed it.
:BYE:
 
@miguelfcp can i ask, when playing ML on PES2008 what transfer setting did you have it on?

I will hopefully start mine in the next couple of weeks and I would like a realistic amount :)
 
I was just testing my option file to see how the salaries work out in ML and it is not bad so far. The CPU generates the salaries ramdomly but it is still good.

But i also noticed a bug which sums up Konami. There are a few duplicate players (video 1). This isn’t because there is one player in a club and a duplicate player in a national team like the new games. These players, as i recently found out (video 2) are in the ‘Edited Player’ section. It just means i will have to copy each of them over a ‘free’ player and then delete the edited player.

Mmm... konami make it hard sometimes. I am so close to starting my ML and then this happens :(


 
Funny you guys all talk about ML - cause i'm also playing a season. Started right after the cup. But i did start with a known team from "Match-Mode". Just to keep the game flow on a constant high level. And to be honest, the ML with default players is still a mystery to me, haven't investesd a lot of research into it, but once im better that defenetly is a goal of mine! But i'm haveing a blast, the matches are well balanced, but the difficulty is kinda harder (haven't changed anything though).

@geeeeee I did some research into "the best PES game" PES 2008 (PS2). And i wonder why this game is so special to you - don't missunderstand me, i know why you like it, i saw your thread ;) - but i discovered that Konami has released PES games for the PS2 until PES 2014 (!)

Have you played all of them and then decided that the 2008 release was the best out of them?
.
 
@Hoshii yes I have played all of the latest PES’ on PS2. But the attacking AI on those ones is too one dimentional for me. The AI seems to dribble a lot more and despite tackling them, standing or sliding, the player mostly gets up before you and gets the ball again. This can be really frustrating especially when it is average player’s that are doing it. Also, the AI passes forwards most of the time and not to the side or backwards. These things plus the AI aggressiveness and the lack of fouls ruins the gameplay for me. It’s a shame because of the later games have the Champions League and Europa League license and there are 20 teams in Division 1 instead of 16.

Admittedly, the AI in PES2008 does have it’s moments when it plays similar to that with so much aggression with concentration and good defenders it can be stopped. Also, the adaptive AI in PES2008 is great. Playing my WC, i was against Peru (I think) and they were constantly having shots from distance, when they got a bit of space...bam!!! It was great because the shots were so varied and many going wide. But I had to change the way I played because a lot was going through the middle of the pitch.

Then I was Tunisia against Denmark. What a match that was, Denmark were using Yussuf Poulsen on their left wing quite a lot and pumping crosses in. It was a dual battle between my right back and him. But he was excellent, along with Eriksen in midfield and then Cornelius up front. I eventually lost 4-1 but it was excellent. I will post the video shortly because the different types of goals and shots that Denmark produced really sums up how good this game is :)

Also, my final game yesterday was Colombia v Turkey (me). Colombia scored pretty early on and were very aggresive (like later PES on PS2) and I was getting a bit annoyed. But then we scored a goal out of nothing and then another 5 mins later and the whole momentum changed. Turkey went on to win 2-1. This game highlighted how much affect the Mentality stat has in the match. Can’t stop playing this at the moment that’s why I have been a bit slow uploading highlights.

I hope this post (which was longer than I thought it would be) explains why I love PES2008 PS2 version so much ;)
 
@Hoshii here are the brief highlights from the Denmark v Tunisia game. The AI is Denmark. Look at the different types of goals. Also i love the save that Kasper makes from me just after i scored. It’s like he has it in both hands but the force of him dropping to the ground makes him spill it wide. Still a good save though.

Also Poulsen’s ‘stroke’ into the corner took me completely by surprise.


I will upload the other games at some point.
 
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That really looked like a FUN game! :ROCK:

Hmm.. let me share with you my 2 cents. From my experience, CPU has like a couple of "play styles" one is normal, other is weak etc. and there is the "cunty" one - it's the easiest of all to recognize. You feel it immediately when you see it, or better said, when the CPU handles the ball. For me in this instance (as i can spot it) Denmark has made use of the cunty "play style".

I found when i play against a team with this "play style" attitude, paitience is the key, both in attacking AND defending, i go FULL stupid mode and try to keep the ball as long in my possession as i possibly can! It doesn't matter what you do with the ball - pass it back to your keeper, let it circle a bit - just don't stress it into oppositions third. It's not as easy as it sounds! And after a while you may find the ideal space into the net.

Defending wise, you probably have noticed, it's basically useless to attack the cpu - when you go left, it goes right (quick like machine). In this case patience positioning is key, sometimes even just standing still before the attacker, just don't rush to him - that cost you def. two goals (the first and the second one). It's hard to describe this method, since it is a delicate, it needs to be learned by doing.

Also the best way to positioning your self (at least in PES 5), is to imagine an invisible line between your goal and the ball, always stand between that. But the crosses from CPU are always a pain in the ass, that's why i always have an eye on my wings!

To quote my self - refering to what i wrote here:
  • You have to read the game
  • Get to know the CPU characteristic
  • RELAX - Don't run stupid on an attacker with your back men (especially if it's near the sideline, just be in front of him (and kinda between your goal and the ball), so he will have to pass it to the middle. More chances of interceptions and less danger from crosses).
Click to expand...

But again, i'm talking PES 5, but often the games have some things in common. Maybe also for defending in PES 6 is to consider (like i asked you in a post earlier):

Do you use "holding down R2" a lot when defending (in general) - or to block crosses? I somewhere read that this is a vital strategie in PES 6 (2008 PS2 same engine)... not so much in PES 5.
Click to expand...
 
Being honest @Hoshii regarding that game i played. I don’t feel that the CPU was playing ‘cheaty’ (for a better word ;) ) but it was actually how well they played. Cornelius their striker was awesome and got into some fantastic positions. When i checked his stats afterwards he actually has the ‘Positioning’ skill which makes sense.

And it was actually quite tight until the 55min when they scored. Also like you said about being patient heh heh believe me my Right Back was against Yussuf as it was quite a fight between them both in that game. But like you say we should defend better. But i think with a stronger team we would have defended better because stats make a big difference in retro PES compared to the new ones :)
 
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