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The Retro-PES Corner

rockstrongo said:
Ha ha you're spot on Chris.
Things should never be easy I guess.
My motto is "never drink drinks that tastes good,it always end up bad"
Somehow the quirky things are to ones we tend to keep for the long haul.
Thanx mate
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@rockstrongo , somehow 818 hrs clocked up by @cosmo does not seem too extreme to me. I have only really played PES 2 and PES 3 to any great amount and have done many ML campaigns of twenty seasons and more. And as for not being proud. He should be proud as punch.

Retro-PES forever.....:TU::TU::TU:
 
Another thing I'v noticed directly while playing the 6 again, is the hold down sprint function on receiving a pass and the player lets the ball pass then turns and runs to the ball, not to confuse with a similar function to simply let the ball pass through your feet (player does not run to it after), I find that very useful sometimes and I think its missing from PES 3 and 4, which breakes the flow and possibilities sometimes.

There is also another similar thing in there, same situation, but now hold R2, the player kind of runs around the ball to take it nicely with him, stuff like this they nailed in the 6er, I just need to alter the gameplay somehow, everyone has only positive things to say about the Shollym gameplay maybe try that out, but I can't find the formula to apply, don't want to load the whole patch for now..

maybe I will apply my own globat stat edit and see how that goes, not sure on what values to set..

Oh and on WE9LE, the flow in contrast to PES6 is too easy imo, most of the time the players run to the ball anyway even on regular non through passes, like that it's way too easy to keep the flow up, on PES 6 its all rigid and kind of shitty but if you manage a nice play with flow (with above controls mentioned) its so rewarding!
 
cosmo said:
Another thing I'v noticed directly while playing the 6 again, is the hold down sprint function on receiving a pass and the player lets the ball pass then turns and runs to the ball, not to confuse with a similar function to simply let the ball pass through your feet (player does not run to it after), I find that very useful sometimes and I think its missing from PES 3 and 4, which breakes the flow and possibilities sometimes.

There is also another similar thing in there, same situation, but now hold R2, the player kind of runs around the ball to take it nicely with him, stuff like this they nailed in the 6er, I just need to alter the gameplay somehow, everyone has only positive things to say about the Shollym gameplay maybe try that out, but I can't find the formula to apply, don't want to load the whole patch for now..

maybe I will apply my own globat stat edit and see how that goes, not sure on what values to set..

Oh and on WE9LE, the flow in contrast to PES6 is too easy imo, most of the time the players run to the ball anyway even on regular non through passes, like that it's way too easy to keep the flow up, on PES 6 its all rigid and kind of shitty but if you manage a nice play with flow (with above controls mentioned) its so rewarding!
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@cosmo , totally agree PES 6 is very rewarding when you score off a fifteen or twenty passing move and your striker bangs in a pinpoint pass from close range. I think the R1 move letting the ball run past a player before he picks up possession is definitely in PES 3. And on your point about scoring loads of one-on-one goals with Mutu in PES 6. I am only playing with a default and youth list squad of players, so that level of skill is not open to me. And yes the Playstation 2 version does not play the same as the PC version, based on the cool dribbling videos on here for PC games.

What I will do this evening is place my best dribble control player (Sousa) as the striker for a game or two and try to run around the keeper.
 
WhoAteMeDinner said:
@cosmo , totally agree PES 6 is very rewarding when you score off a fifteen or twenty passing move and your striker bangs in a pinpoint pass from close range. I think the R1 move letting the ball run past a player before he picks up possession is definitely in PES 3. And on your point about scoring loads of one-on-one goals with Mutu in PES 6. I am only playing with a default and youth list squad of players, so that level of skill is not open to me. And yes the Playstation 2 version does not play the same as the PC version, based on the cool dribbling videos on here for PC games.

What I will do this evening is place my best dribble control player (Sousa) as the striker for a game or two and try to run around the keeper.
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In pes3 the R1 let the ball and run move is a game changer due to gameengine,but only if you master it.In pes6 I personally found it more difficult to master cause every player human and AI are more responsive,resulting being a disadvantage for you cause if you let the ball through your legs your players animation is standing while the other are running always towards the ball leaving you behind them with spread legs!!! :P It was the reason I rarely used it in pes6.In pes3 the defenders are cheated from the fake,chasing you and not the ball leaving you space,a brave new world to accelerate and create advantage.

PS: Someday I will write a post why I believe,despite pes6 is considered the best pes ever, PES 3 was and is the best Football Simulator until today. :)
 
WhoAteMeDinner said:
@rockstrongo , somehow 818 hrs clocked up by @cosmo does not seem too extreme to me. I have only really played PES 2 and PES 3 to any great amount and have done many ML campaigns of twenty seasons and more. And as for not being proud. He should be proud as punch.

Retro-PES forever.....:TU::TU::TU:
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I had a 15 season long stint with Boro on Pes 6 on pc back in the day plus at least 10 with Lazio.
It's funny that a "crappy" mode that is ML,both then and now can bring so much emotion tw it.

I've had a few careers going on FIFA 16/17/18 and even though that mode is "more" and prettier,I've never had the same emotional connection.

I'm not selling my older players on Pes 17 for example,I'd rather let them retire in their Milan kits.
Cause you'd get an emotional tie with players you'd have for 5-10 season,you know them inside out.
So even if ML,past and present looks a tad boring,it's always brought me so much joy
 
I don't think its in either PES 3 or 4, all it does is accelerate the player turn, but the player is still first waiting to get the ball and not moving towards the direction where the ball is heading, I tried many times.

Even in PES 6 it could trigger the turning faster, the ball is almost there with the player then he does turn, but still better than nothing.

Not sure on PES 5..
 
rockstrongo said:
I had a 15 season long stint with Boro on Pes 6 on pc back in the day plus at least 10 with Lazio.
It's funny that a "crappy" mode that is ML,both then and now can bring so much emotion tw it.

I've had a few careers going on FIFA 16/17/18 and even though that mode is "more" and prettier,I've never had the same emotional connection.

I'm not selling my older players on Pes 17 for example,I'd rather let them retire in their Milan kits.
Cause you'd get an emotional tie with players you'd have for 5-10 season,you know them inside out.
So even if ML,past and present looks a tad boring,it's always brought me so much joy
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@rockstrongo , pal, am sure you have seen how much the likes of Macco, Kelsen and Espinas mean to me on previous posts here. That is what Master League is in a nutshell: emotion, loyalty, affinity and fun. Konami could and should have developed the Master League structure much more, adding more divisions and creating a true ML football pyramid of divisions. Instead they went to the dark side and copied the damn FIFA, which I have not a single game of, and added a load of old tosh.

So anyone who thinks I am a bit of a Retro-PES headbanger, guilty as charged.

Now where is that tree I need to headbutt ? :BRICK::BRICK::BRICK:
 
Hexafairy said:
So I found out Peter Brackley died two days ago... rest in peace, maybe they'll play this at your funeral to celebrate your enchanting words of PES commentary:

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@Hexafairy , in fairness. Peter Brackley, RIP, is best remembered for his wonderful Football Italia live match commentaries on Channel 4 in the 1990s. He and James Richardson made the Football Italia era sublime sports broadcasting.

Brookers and Brackers stock one day of recording for PES games on the other hand:

"That was a very close first half, Trevor. Yes, Peter, you can't pick a winner in this game.

The above said at every halftime, even when the score is 5 - 0. :DOH::DOH::DOH:
 
WhoAteMeDinner said:
@rockstrongo , pal, am sure you have seen how much the likes of Macco, Kelsen and Espinas mean to me on previous posts here. That is what Master League is in a nutshell: emotion, loyalty, affinity and fun. Konami could and should have developed the Master League structure much more, adding more divisions and creating a true ML football pyramid of divisions. Instead they went to the dark side and copied the damn FIFA, which I have not a single game of, and added a load of old tosh.

So anyone who thinks I am a bit of a Retro-PES headbanger, guilty as charged.

Now where is that tree I need to headbutt ? :BRICK::BRICK::BRICK:
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Trees are obligatory targets when playing Pes:)
Yeah they should have evolve the ML,made it better (looks) but one thing I don't get,why do people insist to have it just like the real thing?
I mean when it comes to transfers etc
"I just bought Lukaku from manure for £25 mil,it's totally broken,can't play the game"
It's all a fantasy,I keep house rules when playing,if I play as a team,and I find buying that ginger Belgium guy in City not realistic then I don't! buy him
Simple!

I,and I'm sure most of us in here,live in a parallel fantasy football world,it doesn't need to be accurate,some things yes,but transfer fees,nope,at least if they are kept reasonable within the budget/fees for the rest of the ML.

I often engage in discussions whether a game feels "real" or not,or if it's tough or easy.
And since I play manual on TP or SS,most games are tough,and feel pretty accurate to me.
But then you find out the guy on the other end plays as Barca on fully assisted setting, obviously the game is to pingy,to easy,not realistic,yeah...wonder why!

Just played a ML on the "cut down trees with head game" (Pes 18) and was bombarded by Lazio,trying to keep Lazio and Immobile from scoring was a nightmare,lost 2-1 at home,8-22 in shots,fantastic game,just wish the "games broken konami can fuck off crowd" could have one of those games sometimes.
 
@rockstrongo Exactly. I don't get any enjoyment if I'm winning every game without even having to work for it, where's the fun in that? I perversely actually enjoy getting beaten by the computer as long as it's fair and square. It's similar in FM, I always pick an underdog team. The best fun I had on FM in recent years was on the 2012 one when I played as Cowdenbeath. Bare bones squad, signed a load of youth players and tried to train them up to be good enough to get into the first team squad, which to be fair wasn't a great leap in quality, let's be honest! I remember staying up the first season with about two games to go and it was a brilliant moment. Just a shame that FM has become more like a bloody job now than a game and they are taking the fun out of it.
 
@WhoAteMeDinner: Absolutely agreed. I've said it elsewhere before: Master League was a brand of its own, an experience you couldn't get on any other sports game.
One could say the decline started when they allowed us to start a ML with real squads instead of using the Defaults. But let's say it wasn't; then the introduction of real money instead of PES points surely helped to dig ML's own grave, furtherly confirmed by allowing us the players to change clubs at will instead of sticking with the original one, and also being able to manage National Teams.
Of course hindsight is 20/20, but I think they should've built a separate career mode if they really wanted to copy FIFA so much, while keeping the ML free from the "FIFAization" and, as you say, using that base to build upon what was PES' winning formula.
Today's ML is just a poor man's FIFA Career Mode with a name that used to mean something, but doesn't anymore and hasn't for a long long time.
 
mattmid said:
@rockstrongo Exactly. I don't get any enjoyment if I'm winning every game without even having to work for it, where's the fun in that? I perversely actually enjoy getting beaten by the computer as long as it's fair and square. It's similar in FM, I always pick an underdog team. The best fun I had on FM in recent years was on the 2012 one when I played as Cowdenbeath. Bare bones squad, signed a load of youth players and tried to train them up to be good enough to get into the first team squad, which to be fair wasn't a great leap in quality, let's be honest! I remember staying up the first season with about two games to go and it was a brilliant moment. Just a shame that FM has become more like a bloody job now than a game and they are taking the fun out of it.
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I have exactly the same outlook on it,even though I chose Milan as a team in more modern Pes games,but that takes some time building up to a proper team,I usually look at the youths (not youth squad) to build in a five year plan.
Haven't played FM since 11 I think,bet it's a lot to do in it now,I feel it can be overwhelming in that game.
 
WhoAteMeDinner said:
@Hexafairy , in fairness. Peter Brackley, RIP, is best remembered for his wonderful Football Italia live match commentaries on Channel 4 in the 1990s. He and James Richardson made the Football Italia era sublime sports broadcasting.

Brookers and Brackers stock one day of recording for PES games on the other hand:

"That was a very close first half, Trevor. Yes, Peter, you can't pick a winner in this game.

The above said at every halftime, even when the score is 5 - 0. :DOH::DOH::DOH:
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Yeah, I heard he was a brilliant commentator in real life, and a great man who supported the Albion community immensely in his final years of life.

But at least he lives on in Pro Evo :)
 
Back on-topic now, PES 2008 PS2 has some amazing attacking flow, compared to PES 5 & 6 where the opposition team seem rather defensive. It leads to a lot of realistic games, and I'd say 2008 PS2 has a similar vibe to PES 3 (if you really do want the PES 3 vibe, set the main menu theme to "Back in the 2000"). :)
 
Hexafairy said:
Back on-topic now, PES 2008 PS2 has some amazing attacking flow, compared to PES 5 & 6 where the opposition team seem rather defensive. It leads to a lot of realistic games, and I'd say 2008 PS2 has a similar vibe to PES 3 (if you really do want the PES 3 vibe, set the main menu theme to "Back in the 2000"). :)
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@Hexafairy ,
The anime / manga theme music in PES 3 is the best ever, in the best football game ever.:SNACK:
 
@WhoAteMeDinner I could always picture Seabass and his team sitting around in the office on a Friday afternoon having a jam, recording tunes for upcoming PES's. :D

I've got to say after being in the editing screens a lot with the Amador file that the Jazz/Funk tune in that menu (on pes6) is seriously foot tapping stuff! I mean how many computer football games can boast a tune with a bass solo in it! :LOL: Konami really are a one off, their line should not be "The Pitch Is Ours", but, "From The Sublime To The Ridiculous"
 
Just started a ML on the Amador file with South East.

Development: Off Hidden/Classic: Off Transfers: Low Difficulty: Very Hard

I'm using a new version of the gameplay that myself and Miguel are testing at the moment.

My D2 opponents are Andorra La Vella, Down, Zuid-Holland, Zeeland, Leinster, Beiras, South West

First game was a 2-0 loss to Down. A fairly even game but they had the better chances and made them pay. They were 2-0 up by half time and the result never really looked in doubt from then on.

Second match was Zeeland. Another very close game until this moment, when Nathan Thompson won it with a moment of quality. Using the defender as a shield he curled a sublime effort into the net, for what proved to be the winner. A great way to get our first points on the board.



Next up is a South Coast derby against South West. Pressure is on as they have lost their first two and are yet to score.
 
Dear Mr @rockstrongo and Mr @cosmo just checked my steam profile. What should i chop why my head???

PS: For a reason i can not explain until today,why i have 951!!! hours in PES 2016 and only 255 hours in PES 2015.What happened to me really?? :BRMM:

14WxxWD.jpg
 
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slamsoze said:
Dear Mr @rockstrongo and Mr @cosmo just checked my steam profile. What should i chop why my head???

PS: For a reason i can not explain until today i have 951!!! hours in PES 2016 and only 255 hours in PES 2015.What happened to me really?? :BRMM:

14WxxWD.jpg
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I think you should/could chop down a whole forest:)
Man I loved playing Pes 16,despite its flaws.
Since I uninstalled mine,and also had it on Xbox 360,my hours are poor,but I bet I have 5-600 on it.
Pes 15 really hurts my eyes,good game though.
 
A goal from my ML in PES 3 today. Dude i must for sure write my essay about PES 3 ASAP!!! Without exaggeration, it has the best ball physics i have ever seen in PES series.
Always wonder why they abandoned PES 3's philosophy and went with something so different in construction philosophy PES 4 and on. Ok they gave us a new golden era PES 5- PES 6 after 4, but i believe the impact and revolution that PES 3 achieved was more massive than the rest masterpieces. The only few flaws PES 3 has, are due to technology limitations of 2003
To give my analogy the improvement route PES 4--->PES 5 ---> PES 6 was like we went from PEUGEOT 206--->207--->208, while the route of PES 3 was like we went from Ox Caravan straight to a decent car from 90's!



 
I started the ML with the original players in PES 3

D2, AS Roma, my favourite team. After week 3 I only have 3 points, only one win. Played a bad first match, 0-1 to Lisbonera, for the second match against Longobardi I changed the formation, from 3-5-2 to a 4-3-3 (B I think, the one with the offensive midfielder). The team played well, but unfortunately we lost 0-1, Longobardi scored after 40 minutes in the first half.
Finally against the Azur the first win. Well played despite a red card during the middle of the first half, after many attempts Roma finally scored at the 78th minute: Valeny crossed to the far post where Barota jumped higher than two defenders and scored with a header.
Standings after W3
PYHGEdh.png


This is a good save from my goalkeeper during the first match. I think it shows how good is the CPU
 
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Great stuff guys, and I surely want to read that essay @slamsoze!
I too was messing around in PES3 tonight and it's definitely one hell of a game. The AI is fantastic (defensively and offensively), the ball control is superb and the animations look surprisingly good...particularly when shooting and changing directions at full speed. Like the ball physics as well. This is a Football Game with a capital F and G, just brilliant.
 
miguelfcp said:
Great stuff guys, and I surely want to read that essay @slamsoze!
I too was messing around in PES3 tonight and it's definitely one hell of a game. The AI is fantastic (defensively and offensively), the ball control is superb and the animations look surprisingly good...particularly when shooting and changing directions at full speed. Like the ball physics as well. This is a Football Game with a capital F and G, just brilliant.
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I will mate as i have noticed many things. Whati can say for now, is that it is the only PES that player's animations are independent from the ball without any type of "magnets" helping the ball come close to a players foot. There is a logical order, the player controls the ball, becomes "owner" of the ball and after this the action starts. It creates the illusion that the ball is 50-50 claimable in any moment when under no position and that it can go everywhere-anywhere in the field.

P.S.: @Shingo 'Seabass' Takatsuka i am sure you are member of this forum under an alternate profile ,coming here from time to time and reading some RETRO PES posts. :P :P :P Make a post and reveal us the truth after all these years, why you left behind the PES 3 project.I know the rest PES (ps2-era) were also awesome, but this PES 3 had so much potential, with the later better technology you could rewrite history! :D
 
mattmid said:
Just started a ML on the Amador file with South East.

Development: Off Hidden/Classic: Off Transfers: Low Difficulty: Very Hard

I'm using a new version of the gameplay that myself and Miguel are testing at the moment.

My D2 opponents are Andorra La Vella, Down, Zuid-Holland, Zeeland, Leinster, Beiras, South West

First game was a 2-0 loss to Down. A fairly even game but they had the better chances and made them pay. They were 2-0 up by half time and the result never really looked in doubt from then on.

Second match was Zeeland. Another very close game until this moment, when Nathan Thompson won it with a moment of quality. Using the defender as a shield he curled a sublime effort into the net, for what proved to be the winner. A great way to get our first points on the board.



Next up is a South Coast derby against South West. Pressure is on as they have lost their first two and are yet to score.
Click to expand...


@mattmid , question mate, if player development is off and all the AMADOR players have stats in 50 to 60 range. What is the point of this torture ?

:CONFUSE::CONFUSE::CONFUSE:
 
Walker™ said:
I started the ML with the original players in PES 3

D2, AS Roma, my favourite team. After week 3 I only have 3 points, only one win. Played a bad first match, 0-1 to Lisbonera, for the second match against Longobardi I changed the formation, from 3-5-2 to a 4-3-3 (B I think, the one with the offensive midfielder). The team played well, but unfortunately we lost 0-1, Longobardi scored after 40 minutes in the first half.
Finally against the Azur the first win. Well played despite a red card during the middle of the first half, after many attempts Roma finally scored at the 78th minute: Valeny crossed to the far post where Barota jumped higher than two defenders and scored with a header.
Standings after W3
PYHGEdh.png


This is a good save from my goalkeeper during the first match. I think it shows how good is the CPU
Click to expand...


@Walker™ , what is the TM for, are you a crisp ?:Y1:Y1:Y1 And to my point on your PES 3 start, well done, you have started well in the league of death with West London, Lisbonera and Longobardi. The toughest PES game with just the default squad is pure football gaming.
 
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