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The Official Evo-Web PES 2018 Video Review - join in!

If there's a lesson to be learned by konami from this years saga, I hope it is the one that says "you can't design the gameplay/AI for your online multiplayer/e-sport thing and then use it for all offline modes with minimal effort, because the two are completely different sports".

Also, hard to beat AI does not equal good AI, would be a good second lesson I think.

I doubt this can be saved by small tweaks. It needs major work. Stuff like improving the defensive side, figuring out how to get some midfield action (if they go full e-sport they should remove this area of the pitch completely next year, it looks empty and slows the pace down for a few milliseconds), implementing player stats...
 
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Zorres said:
maybe you should find another game to play if you don't like this. PES 2018 is easily the best game in the series and PES 2017 being the second best. A lot of the issues you are showing on the video is just nit-picking and some of them aren't even an issue. I have fouls, CPU doesn't through pass all the time, bad player mis pass a lot, there is not huge space especially in superstar. The part where you showed Mane running past all the players is fine because first of all he is Mane. He has a lot of pace and good dribbling skills. Secondly, it seems like you played that match on amateur or beginner. You need to have a clear head when you do review but I agree with you on the graphics bits. The graphics are absolutely gorgeous
Click to expand...
Um so perfect passing when the players passing stats are STUPIDLY low is not an issue? The shooting lacking variety and being straight and true and laser guided isn't an issue? I am starting to wonder if you ever liked the PS2 PES days where Stats actually made a difference! The shooting was varied..... You never knew 100% how the shot was going to turn out when you released the button.... I am sorry man but CDRom's Review of this game is spot on! He even satisfied our good friend Curdstar by showing the proof... I want proof! I will hound you and discount your opinion until I get the proof!!
 
For the guy (@Zorres, but there will be others) who said "you've got it on a lower difficulty".

It's my lunch hour - well, it was... But I nipped home and recorded this as quickly as I could. It's not a full game, but I hope it proves something to you.

This is unedited, and shows me selecting Superstar from the start. It's a Master League game too, so the AI is "trying".

There are moments where - possibly because it's a derby match - they do actually appear aggressive, but... Fast forward to the last 30 seconds and you'll see they leave you alone on the wings to do whatever you please.

It would have lasted longer, with Clyne on the opposite side, if I hadn't ran the ball out of play like a TOTAL SPANNER...

Anyway, here you go.

Oh, by the way - I didn't start Mané this time (again, you can see it all in the clip).


P.S. - Check out that AI ping-pong passing.
 
Zorres said:
maybe you should find another game to play if you don't like this. PES 2018 is easily the best game in the series and PES 2017 being the second best. A lot of the issues you are showing on the video is just nit-picking and some of them aren't even an issue. I have fouls, CPU doesn't through pass all the time, bad player mis pass a lot, there is not huge space especially in superstar. The part where you showed Mane running past all the players is fine because first of all he is Mane. He has a lot of pace and good dribbling skills. Secondly, it seems like you played that match on amateur or beginner. You need to have a clear head when you do review but I agree with you on the graphics bits. The graphics are absolutely gorgeous
Click to expand...
Just. Lmao. I got nothing to say to you.
 
Zorres said:
maybe you should find another game to play if you don't like this. PES 2018 is easily the best game in the series and PES 2017 being the second best. A lot of the issues you are showing on the video is just nit-picking and some of them aren't even an issue. I have fouls, CPU doesn't through pass all the time, bad player mis pass a lot, there is not huge space especially in superstar. The part where you showed Mane running past all the players is fine because first of all he is Mane. He has a lot of pace and good dribbling skills. Secondly, it seems like you played that match on amateur or beginner. You need to have a clear head when you do review but I agree with you on the graphics bits. The graphics are absolutely gorgeous
Click to expand...

I was understandable until I read the part where you said, "You need to have a clear head when you do the review". Please explain me how doing the review provided with actual facts and showing actual gameplay issues shows that you don't have a clear head. That's one of the most arrogant dig I have seen so far here. It's honestly good that you are enjoying the game, good for you. But when the game is being advertised to be a proper sim and then have core issues like the once mentioned in the review video, then obviously we are going to pick it out and discuss about it. I really am enjoying PES 2018 but I can still point out the issues. If I don't, it will never be fixed and always be an issue. And If I had to find another game because it had some issues, I will never find another game. Because all games have issues. Minor or major. Also I want you to tell me how you are going to defend the fact that the passing stat makes no difference regardless if it's 40 or 99. And if you reply by saying, "Oh, well that's how it's suppose to be." then what is the point of the passing stat if it doesn't make any difference?
 
Chris Davies said:
For the guy (@Zorres, but there will be others) who said "you've got it on a lower difficulty".

It's my lunch hour - well, it was... But I nipped home and recorded this as quickly as I could. It's not a full game, but I hope it proves something to you.

This is unedited, and shows me selecting Superstar from the start. It's a Master League game too, so the AI is "trying".

There are moments where - possibly because it's a derby match - they do actually appear aggressive, but... Fast forward to the last 30 seconds and you'll see they leave you alone on the wings to do whatever you please.

It would have lasted longer, with Clyne on the opposite side, if I hadn't ran the ball out of play like a TOTAL SPANNER...

Anyway, here you go.

Oh, by the way - I didn't start Mané this time (again, you can see it all in the clip).


P.S. - Check out that AI ping-pong passing.
Click to expand...

Chris, when you changed the passing stats, did you also tried them on the Human side? Or only CPU? I was believed that CPU doesn´t take the stats into account, specially on higher levels. The game creates the situations acording to the match, no matter the stats maybe? On the other side, playing with minimum passing stats on the Human side might not be that easy.
 
xicpanad said:
Chris, when you changed the passing stats, did you also tried them on the Human side? Or only CPU? I was believed that CPU doesn´t take the stats into account, specially on higher levels. The game creates the situations acording to the match, no matter the stats maybe? On the other side, playing with minimum passing stats on the Human side might not be that easy.
Click to expand...
I played vs Arsenal on regular with all their players passing stats on 40 and at the end of the match their passing accuracy % was 88%. It's just ridiculous. It's been the case for years yet people turn a blind eye.
 
Chris Davies said:
Enjoy, guys.


Transcript Part I:

Hello Evo-Webbers, PES lovers, sceptics, haters and even the odd FIFA player too. Yes, I know you're watching. But it's okay, I'm not going to tell anyone.

Welcome to the official Evo-Web PES 2018 review, and this year, it's in video form! Fancy, eh? But there's a reason for it, and that reason is... Fake news!

You can't just say things any more! You have to prove yourself - even if we're talking about an opinion - and even when you DO, there's somebody, somewhere, who has a theory about your opinion.

You're being paid by Konami! You're being paid by EA! You're a womble! You're not even real! Nothing is real! Where are my pills? I know you're taking my money! Etc. Etc.

So I thought that this year, the best thing I could do is to SHOW you the game and try to back everything up as much as I can.

Before we kick off (get it?), I need to thank Adam and Asim for the support they've given to the community over the last few years. They both get a lot of stick over the game, and even get accused of dishonesty, but firstly, and this is an important point - WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A GAME, HERE...

But also, I've known Adam since he was a member of Evo-Web many moons ago, and he's never ceased to be a genuinely decent guy. He is Mr. Pro Evo as far as I'm concerned, he works his heart out for the game, and so does Asim. But they aren't developers and they don't make any development decisions - and I just want to thank them both for supporting the site with each release of the game we all love.

Or in the case of the FIFA fans, secretly love. (But it's okay.)

Right, let's get stuck into it, and let's start with what most of us play Pro Evo for... The gameplay.

Question. How do you play Pro Evo? You might love playing it against friends. You might love playing it online. You might love playing against the AI - and that's the category I fall into.

I am part of a generation of gamers that's dying out - I'm less interested in proving my skillz online (that's skills with a Z if you couldn't tell), and more interested in playing against an AI that recreates the style of play of my opponents.

If you're an offline kinda guy, it's pretty much unanimously agreed that the AI in Pro Evo does a much better job of recreating a team's real-life play style - and provides a LOT more variety - than FIFA does. (I'll try not to make too many comparisons, I promise.)

So, Pro Evo arrived on my doorstep, and the first thing I did was fire up the Master League. I couldn't wait to see how the AI had advanced this year.

But here's what I saw - see if you can spot a pattern.

[Clip here]

Okay, I'm just going to tell you now - the AI in 2018 absolutely loves a through-ball. Especially lofted through-balls. So much so, that I can continue talking while these clips run in the background. Just look at them all!

These clips were taken from just FIVE FIRST HALVES and one full match, across Top Player, Superstar and the new Legend difficulty. More about that later on.

You could argue that the back four could be deeper, or that the wing-backs are poor positionally, or that you're only seeing me play as one team here - but honestly, whichever team I played as (and more worryingly, no matter who I played against), and however I set up my defence, the AI looked to hit through-balls down the wing as a priority.

This is the first time I can recall playing against the AI in a PES game in recent memory, where I've thought to myself, "oh, these matches all feel a bit familiar".

The variety just wasn't there, and I felt no difference in the AI's approach between English league matches and Europa League football. (Speaking of which, why are Liverpool assigned to the Europa League? This is with the day one patch applied, too!)

Those of us who love playing the Master League has never exactly been full of things to do off-the-pitch, so it's a mode that lives and dies by the gameplay and the AI recreating each team's real play style.

But this gameplay issue is compounded by another - and that's just how easy it is to run around the pitch without being pressured.

As the human player, and again, seemingly against any AI team, you can run from your own half to the edge of the opposition's box without being challenged - or run down the wings and jog back and forth as much as you like.

[Clip here]

To reiterate, this is on Top Player, Superstar and maybe Legend too.

If you reduce the speed to -1, you can improve the balance a little, and suddenly you're a little more likely to be caught on the wings - but it doesn't fix everything.

There are so many bizarre little circumstances that didn't happen before - AI defenders will now pass the ball around in their own box rather than clear the danger, because they know they'll get away with it, and goalkeepers occasionally do strange things - like this (though I should stress that they're brilliant in general).

[Clip here]

As for Legend difficulty - which I know a lot of people have been getting excited about - it's a difficulty for people who want an impossible challenge as opposed to anything that represents real football. I've seen the AI string 40 perfect passes together while I had to sit and watch - it's not a setting that I can imagine many people playing on once they've tried it a few times.

This is all on top of the stuff from the demo that critics of the demo have been talking about on Evo-Web for a while now - passing on the lowest assist level being far too assisted, shooting not having much variety to it, a total lack of fouls, and the default game speed being too fast (after the open beta was lauded for daring to be slow).

With all this in mind, and being a bit disappointed to see how perfect the AI's passing was - in the demo and in the final game - I ran an experiment.

What would happen if I lowered every player on a single team's passing attributes to the lowest possible level, then play against that team on Professional, Top Player and Superstar?

Surely the amount of completed passes would drop considerably?

Well, here's the thing. It didn't. I'll upload the full video capture, from editing to playing the game, so that anybody who thinks this is "trolling" can take a look for themselves - but take a look at these clips.

[Clip here]

When this happens, it begs the question - just what do attributes like these actually matter? How are they used in the engine?

Shooting attributes feel similarly devoid of importance, with every player seemingly capable of hitting cannonballs. But I have to say, I do think that basic shooting - which is the default level of assistance for shooting in the game - DOES have more variety now than before.

Another positive that has to be mentioned is how good dribbling feels, now. My enjoyment of being on-the-ball now in PES has increased significantly, with dribbling feeling natural and easy to control. This pairs beautifully with the new "auto-shielding" system, that some voiced concern with when it was announced - but I feel like the balance here has been beautifully met. The new dribbling and auto-shielding work together in glorious harmony.

But what has to be the community's biggest and most common complaint is the lack of fouls in the game. Across my last ten games, I've experienced three fouls from the AI - and two of them were in the same game.

With the AI seemingly always keen to back off and avoid making a tackle unless it's an almost guaranteed steal, it's no wonder fouls don't exist - play is back and forth, end to end, counter attack after counter attack, with space all over the park.

When there is so much space in midfield, no battles need to take place, and no fouls will happen - but PES isn't really about creating gritty midfield battles any more. Nowadays, it's much more about creating a beautifully flowing game of football that makes your heart beat faster, every match you play.

In this sense, it delivers - the game flows seamlessly from defence to attack and back again - and if that's what you love about PES, you won't be disappointed.

It's worth saying that, firstly, Adam has stated on Twitter that the game's next scheduled patch may include some tweaks to encourage a few more fouls - though nothing is set in stone at this time.

Secondly, although I tried plenty of tactical fiddling to fix my complaints, there may well be option files released that change each team's tactics and "advanced instructions" settings that change the gameplay to create more midfield scraps and reduce the amount of through-balls the AI hits. But relying on the community for this makes me feel a little uncomfortable. It's easy to forget that the majority of people buy the game with no knowledge of option files, control methods or even difficulty levels - and it does take a little know-how (as well as a computer and a USB stick) to install an option file.

But there's no doubt that they will increase my enjoyment of the Master League tenfold when they're released over the coming months. Speaking of which...
Click to expand...

Thanks for review. Sounds like 1 step forward, 2 step back again from Konami

No football game for me again this year - thank god for Player Unknown Battlegrounds!!
 
Yep, alway noticed that. The game tries to show certain stats, no matter what team/players you use.

But what I mean is, did you change the player stats and then control that team against CPU? I believe that stats only affect Human teams, not CPU.
 
xicpanad said:
Yep, alway noticed that. The game tries to show certain stats, no matter what team/players you use.

But what I mean is, did you change the player stats and then control that team against CPU? I believe that stats only affect Human teams, not CPU.
Click to expand...
This isn't something I've tried, but honestly, if I wanted to make it more difficult to pass the ball so accurately, I'd play on manual (which I did during one of the clips in the review)!

It'd be interesting to find out, but I was only editing those pass stats to try and stop the CPU ping-ponging the ball around on any difficulty above the standard one.
 
xicpanad said:
Yep, alway noticed that. The game tries to show certain stats, no matter what team/players you use.

But what I mean is, did you change the player stats and then control that team against CPU? I believe that stats only affect Human teams, not CPU.
Click to expand...

Yes the only stats that I have seen impacting both sides are ball control, dribbling, ball winning(minor impact), Defence Prowess(minor impact), jump, explosive power, stamina, header, speed, body control and physical contact. Stats such as Attacking Prowess, Low Pass, Lofted Pass, Finishing, Place Kicking, Swerve, Kicking Power and Weak Foot are just aesthetics. They make no impact for CPU. You can easily test it out by putting all those stats to 40 and noticing no difference whatsoever.
 
Chris Davies said:
For the guy (@Zorres, but there will be others) who said "you've got it on a lower difficulty".

It's my lunch hour - well, it was... But I nipped home and recorded this as quickly as I could. It's not a full game, but I hope it proves something to you.

This is unedited, and shows me selecting Superstar from the start. It's a Master League game too, so the AI is "trying".

There are moments where - possibly because it's a derby match - they do actually appear aggressive, but... Fast forward to the last 30 seconds and you'll see they leave you alone on the wings to do whatever you please.

It would have lasted longer, with Clyne on the opposite side, if I hadn't ran the ball out of play like a TOTAL SPANNER...

Anyway, here you go.

Oh, by the way - I didn't start Mané this time (again, you can see it all in the clip).


P.S. - Check out that AI ping-pong passing.
Click to expand...

everton is a team that is known to pass like that. As much as I hate Everton, they are good at passing the ball about. Before you make conclusions like that, please research on the actual teams. I respect that you are trying to get your point across but you seem a bit ignorant to how football works especially when you are surprised that Mane is running rings around Everton's defense since their defense is known to be pretty weak and Everton playing nice possession which they do in real life.
 
Topaz said:
Yes the only stats that I have seen impacting both sides are ball control, dribbling, ball winning(minor impact), Defence Prowess(minor impact), jump, explosive power, stamina, header, speed, body control and physical contact. Stats such as Attacking Prowess, Low Pass, Lofted Pass, Finishing, Place Kicking, Swerve, Kicking Power and Weak Foot are just aesthetics. They make no impact for CPU. You can easily test it out by putting all those stats to 40 and noticing no difference whatsoever.
Click to expand...
sorry but if this is not totally changed from 2017 place kicking and swerve have always worked well .
Just note the FK guides how change with an high swerve.
Weak foot change just some tricks and probably little else.
Att prow IMO is just relative to the placement and movement of a player but about the rest i'm agree with you
 
kilay said:
sorry but if this is not totally changed from 2017 place kicking and swerve have always worked well .
Just note the FK guides how change with an high swerve.
Weak foot change just some tricks and probably little else.
Att prow IMO is just relative to the placement and movement of a player but about the rest i'm agree with you
Click to expand...

It works well for the player. Well almost all the stats, it's just for the CPU.
 
Zorres said:
everton is a team that is known to pass like that. As much as I hate Everton, they are good at passing the ball about. Before you make conclusions like that, please research on the actual teams. I respect that you are trying to get your point across but you seem a bit ignorant to how football works especially when you are surprised that Mane is running rings around Everton's defense since their defense is known to be pretty weak and Everton playing nice possession which they do in real life.
Click to expand...

keep going Your nearly at terminal velocity. Troll. :CURSE:
 
Zorres said:
maybe you should find another game to play if you don't like this. PES 2018 is easily the best game in the series and PES 2017 being the second best. A lot of the issues you are showing on the video is just nit-picking and some of them aren't even an issue. I have fouls, CPU doesn't through pass all the time, bad player mis pass a lot, there is not huge space especially in superstar. The part where you showed Mane running past all the players is fine because first of all he is Mane. He has a lot of pace and good dribbling skills. Secondly, it seems like you played that match on amateur or beginner. You need to have a clear head when you do review but I agree with you on the graphics bits. The graphics are absolutely gorgeous
Click to expand...
What a lorry load of codswallop that post really is..It's a review, it's a persons opinion & a well backed up one may I add..just because it differs from yours does not give you the right to tell someone to go play another game or even worse to have a clear head when he gives his opinion implying that his head wasn't clear.. WTF ! Well I guess from your previous posts we all know what kind of football game your looking for ..But those are your opinions & your entitled to them.

In a discussion on better defending/positioning/tactics you replied.
Zorres said:
No, that's going to make PES 2018 more boring and every match to be 0-0.
Click to expand...

And on the same subject.
Zorres said:
Alright, I have been reading a lot here and I am getting tired of people complaining and whining about positioning. PES 2017 itself is the best footie game by KONAMI and PES 2018 further improved it. I also like the direction PES is going making the gameplay more open, end-to-end and attack oriented. The more space, the more fun the gameplay is so please stop complaining and trying to make PES 2018 more boring and defensive. Games are suppose to be fun !
Click to expand...

And then there's this...quite clearly stating that your not interested in a realistic football game.
Zorres said:
I am a casual player and I play PES just to score beautiful goals. I don't have time to play 15-20mins matches which is why I prefer end to end matches because it's fun!!! It's a game after all and if you want realistic football game, just go play outside!! Don't ruin PES!
Click to expand...

Isn't realism what were all looking for ? Is it not fun to have to pit your wits against stronger teams to try & carve out a win rather than legging it down the flank unchallenged like Chris's video shows or continually smashing 30 yard shots at goal until one goes in ? It is for me.
 
Zorres said:
everton is a team that is known to pass like that. As much as I hate Everton, they are good at passing the ball about. Before you make conclusions like that, please research on the actual teams. I respect that you are trying to get your point across but you seem a bit ignorant to how football works especially when you are surprised that Mane is running rings around Everton's defense since their defense is known to be pretty weak and Everton playing nice possession which they do in real life.
Click to expand...
Oh so he's not only reviewing the game with an unclear head he's ignorant now as well ?
 
Zorres said:
everton is a team that is known to pass like that. As much as I hate Everton, they are good at passing the ball about. Before you make conclusions like that, please research on the actual teams. I respect that you are trying to get your point across but you seem a bit ignorant to how football works especially when you are surprised that Mane is running rings around Everton's defense since their defense is known to be pretty weak and Everton playing nice possession which they do in real life.
Click to expand...

Please stop talking about something of tactical based on KONAMI settings.
I can proof you with a lot threads and words that they never understood nothing about tactics or placements.
E.g. MAN UTD default setting of the last three years (2015-2016-2017) had counterattack and long balls in any seasons
 
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Zorres said:
maybe you should find another game to play if you don't like this. PES 2018 is easily the best game in the series and PES 2017 being the second best. A lot of the issues you are showing on the video is just nit-picking and some of them aren't even an issue. I have fouls, CPU doesn't through pass all the time, bad player mis pass a lot, there is not huge space especially in superstar. The part where you showed Mane running past all the players is fine because first of all he is Mane. He has a lot of pace and good dribbling skills. Secondly, it seems like you played that match on amateur or beginner. You need to have a clear head when you do review but I agree with you on the graphics bits. The graphics are absolutely gorgeous
Click to expand...

Belittling shit like this isn't gonna fly around here, just so you know in case you're planning on posting more of that crap in the coming days/weeks.
 
Hawke said:
Isn't realism what were all looking for ? Is it not fun to have to pit your wits against stronger teams to try & carve out a win rather than legging it down the flank unchallenged like Chris's video shows or continually smashing 30 yard shots at goal until one goes in ? It is for me.
Click to expand...

This is purely konami's fault though. Zorres has the right to casually enjoy pes by hitting a button and scoring a "beautiful goal" (he doesn't have the right to talk like that and insult others of course). And he should be able to do so at some difficulty level. That's why there are different difficulty levels in sports games, and video games in general. That's the exact problem they are supposed to solve. But on a higher difficulty level you expect a SERIOUS approach for fans of the sport. Instead konami treats the higher difficulty level, not as something that should be closer to the damn thing the game is supposed to be based on (football), but just as an even more ridiculous and harder version of ping pong. Sad really.
 
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We have to remember that Ml plays shite for the first couple of seasons anyway .. .two birds could be killed with the one stone here . .fix the defensive pressing and it will improve the fouling situation. . .Pes 2017 had issues with attacking variation last year but sly tweaks from konami during the season sorted them out and the game eventually ended up quite addictive ....so hope springs eternal.
 
Zorres said:
everton is a team that is known to pass like that. As much as I hate Everton, they are good at passing the ball about. Before you make conclusions like that, please research on the actual teams.
Click to expand...
I'd dig out my ticket from Everton's pre-season match when I get home and show you, given that I live 30 minutes from the ground and go to watch them play with friends on occasion (because getting a ticket for Anfield is impossible without borrowing a season ticket holder's pass, and it's great to see live PL football).

But I imagine your response to that would be that I've printed it out myself, and I spent my lunch hour trying to appease you, so I won't bother.

Though I'd like you to show me a clip from an Everton match where they hit 5-6 first time passes around the edge of the area ending with a first-time shot this year, Barcelona-style. Because come on, now. They're not that good.
 
Chris Davies said:
I'd dig out my ticket from Everton's pre-season match when I get home and show you, given that I live 30 minutes from the ground and go to watch them play with friends on occasion (because getting a ticket for Anfield is impossible without borrowing a season ticket holder's pass, and it's great to see live PL football).

But I imagine your response to that would be that I've printed it out myself, and I spent my lunch hour trying to appease you, so I won't bother.

Though I'd like you to show me a clip from an Everton match where they hit 5-6 first time passes around the edge of the area ending with a first-time shot this year, Barcelona-style. Because come on, now. They're not that good.
Click to expand...
You're Tranmere mate,what are you doing at Goodison:)
 
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