The Muslim Cartoons

[Dar]

you call this respect?

strange people...

No, I dont think we do find that respectful if it was meant as a sweeping generalisation (which it would certainly appear to be but hopefully wasn't), however if you live in Europe or even the UK yourself, you might understand how the Muslim reaction is being protrayed over here, which would lead to comments like the original one being made. We're being told that its the extremists that are having the strongest reaction and are therefore threatening terrorist action against a country within our Union for the printing of these cartoons. Of course thats not the full picture (or even the right one) but this is where a persons own personal judgement has to come into things, for them to realise that opinions cannot be formed entirely by the media portrayal of events or opinions. I'm not saying the initial post is respectful but if I sanitise and edit that one, where do I stop editing?!

MonkeyJug may not have put his thoughts accross in the most tasteful of manner, hopefully he'll come back and expand upon his intial post and maybe even apologise for its generalised contents (I'm leaving it up to him whether he feels the need to edit it) now that he has seen the effect it has had. I do feel he didn't mean to tar all Muslims with the same brush (but maybe he did?) so to speak. I'm leaving the door open for him to clear it up.


Oh and you claiming terrorist attacks will happen etc... thats just backing up the opinions of people that make the generalised statements you find so disrespectful, so maybe you should think about that before posting retorts in future.

 

[Milanista]

you call this respect?



strange people...

Like Dar said, I think he was referring to the extremists being shown on the media here who are complaining about it, not all the Muslims.

 

[MonkeyJug]

Please take note that my post does not reflect the views of the entirety of the muslim population. Equally, the views of the majority is neither reflected by the opinions of these random so called "clerics" so evident these days whose purpose is to only make good TV and newspaper headlines. Please note that I am (supposedly!) a scientist by trade and not much of a debator. There are other far more qualified than me who will be able to give a more concise viewpoint on the rather important matter.

This is not an apologetic post, and I'm not going to sugarcoat anything but tell it as it is for many of us.

I have to also make it clear that some the media these days clearly don't portray the majority in an totally impartial manner. It's always worrying when we have these "intellectual" debates on TV concerning issues in Islam (be it about women, bombings, cartoons), and often the case, the side "representing" Islam either comes from:

1) An extremist guy (with or without the hook) from what the majority of the muslim community consider to be radical groups (Al Muhajaroun or Hizb-ut-Tahrir anyone?). Trust me, I've had many bumping in with these guys at uni and round my local area - and they are certainly not representative of the majority.

2) A complete random who doesn't have a clue about what he is talking about. For example, Radio five today had a minor discussion between Evan Harris (a major player in the Secular society) up against some guy who used to present a Pop show on Radio 1 or something.

There are many intellectual and sophisticated islamic speakers around whom I've had the pleasure of meeting and attending debates with. Its a shame that they are not controversial enough to come on TV.

Anyway, to this issue about the cartoons....

Religion is an incredibly complex subject and one that cannot be summed up in one post (or in a thesis paper, or a book, or anything for that matter tbh). Religion has a different effect to people (as would any ideology). To us, living in this relatively cushty lifestyle, we find it difficult to test our faith/beliefs in times of sheer hardship. Yet for many around the world (e.g. Africa, the sufferers of the Tsunami, Pakistan Earthquake, Palestine, The Holocaust), Religion is perhaps their only explanation/hope to the pain and suffering in the world. Naturally, some people will be more passionate about their beliefs more than others.

The portrayal of Prophet Muhammad (or any other prophet such as Moses, Jesus, Abraham etc..) is strictly prohibited - to prevent idolisation of false images. Muslims are commanded to only worship God and no human, animal, object. Prophet Muhammad is highly regarded by many - he was the perfect muslim and the example to the muslims in terms of character and piousness. His lifestory is an example of us muslims to follow.

Many feel so close to Muhammad that their love for him and the other prophets is beyond description. It can be difficult to explain this concept to anyone who hasn't been in the same state to highly regard of someone. This is where we get a clash of cultures/ideologies. The depiction of Prophet Muhammad can be seen worse as publicly humilating our mother/father/brother/sister/son/daughter. Such is the strength of the love of the prophet by the muslims. Again, this can be a difficult concept to accept by many - which I cannot blame them for. When you consider how his teachings have helped those who follow him in their life problems, you can perhaps imagine why we feel so strong for him.

However, we are living in times of multiculturism and freedom of speech (which has provided its share of benefits and downfalls some may argue). The Muslim population, as well as any other ideology/religion have no right to prevent the freedom of discussion/speech on certain areas within our beliefs. Hence, the aftershocks of this event - particularly the taking of hostages and other (somewhat) overreactions - are highly disregarded by the unheard majority.

However, the question comes as to how far can the freedom of speech be used? Can we use the freedom of speech to justify the attack on other religions/ideologies?

Surely, living in a multifaith society (many consider secularism as a faith itself), we should all respect the intricacies of the other faiths. Read closely to the teachings of Islam, and you will find that - contrary to popular belief - the attack and incitement of other religions is forbidden.

I will leave the end of my somewhat extensive post open to further discussion as I am interested to what has to be said - I, and many others maybe, will be more than happy to discuss the issues/questions if you have any.

I will however bring to attention the shockingly offensive first post. To depict the entire muslim population (or "sad fuckers" as the poster remarkably points out) as bombers and murderers is extremely shortsighted. If you do wish to contribute, at least step away from the heap of tabloid trash and do your research properly on the teachings and discussions by proper unbiased writers (or debators) who portray the beliefs of the majority. I'm more than open to attacks on Islam as long as they can be supported by concise readings and discussions. To put it bluntly, it is almost like saying that the teachings of the BNP and the National Front is cheered on by the entirety of the UK.

fair points, and i apologise for the 'sad fuckers' comment if it was taken out of context. i was indeed referring to those people who i saw in london yesterday, with banners saying 'KILL BRITAIN' and the like - BUT IT IS A BLOODY CARTOON!! FOR GOD SAKE, LET'S GET THIS IN PERSPECTIVE! PEOPLE ARE CALLING FOR A FUCKIN' JIHAD!!

ROFLMAO!!


They should be fucking locked up, for the scum and poison that they are and banned from britain for life!

the fuckers...

 

[rockykabir]

Monkeyjug, I highly appreciate your apology. Society can only thrive as long as we learn from our mistakes.

It may be hard to believe, but us muslims actually do have a sense of humour(!). But there are certain things close to our heart which we will find difficult to take without taking offence....even if it is meant to be a joke. I think the same goes for all of us in one way or another (whether it be cussing our parents, friends, videogame(!), etc...).

I remember reading a thread a while ago about Ramadan and there were a few satirical posts made by GG & Co. I actually found them quite funny and didn't take it seriously at all. As with all things in life, things aren't clear cut as they seem.

Thats why, equally, I'm kinda upset at the overreaction of certain individuals/groups from the Muslim communities. Yes, the cartoons were offensive and are considered as an attack. But I sincerely doubt that this Danish newspaper meant to cause much trouble it had caused in the end. Now, that this mistake has been made, lets learn from it and move on.

Again, contrary to belief shown by the media, the rulings of Islam promote the understanding and acceptance of human nature. Again, we see again and again, the media seems to take several steps ahead and highlight the juicy bits of the juridical system of Islam in the extreme cases - most of which are taken out of context.

What is equally funny is that certain groups in the community (likely the wild and post-pubescent 16-25 age group) seem to take these outrageous reports as the truth and promote it themselves.

 

[Stan]

Rockykabir, the origin of the cartoons was an interview with a man who wrote a book about the prophet and who wanted illustrations in his book (i wonder what sort of illustration because having written a book on the prophet he must have known that it is offensive to most Muslim people to visualise him).
As a reaction the paper placed "an advert" in search of people who wanted to illustrate the book...11 cartoonists/illustrators reacted and their drawings were all published, the drawings of only two of them were (considered) offensive...
That's the whole story...

Monkey Juggler: with your apologies you show that you are a fine guy...

 

[Milanista]

Muslim protests in Beirut right now... not looking good. Why is the Danish newspaper going to re-issue the cartoons? Its clear that the topic is controversial, even if its free speech. Its best to just avoid the problem.

 

[ClassicD]

I understand that Muslims find the visualisation of their prophet as unacceptable. MJ doesn't think this is such a big deal and that's the case with most non-Muslims including myself, but a bit of tolerance wouldn't go amiss here - Muslims find it offensive, so let's just try to accept that bit eh?

What is ironic, is the image showed the prophet with a bomb in his turban. This is the whole point of the cartoon, that often the image the West sees of Islam is that they think it's ok to use religion as a reason to take the lives of others (please note, I said the image the West sees through the media, I'm not saying the majority of Muslims feel this way). What we have seen on TV today is Danish and Norwegian Embassies being torched in Syria, in response to these cartoons - that is the point the cartoon of the turban/bomb was making, that Muslims use their religion as a reason or excuse to use violence themselves!

I also don't understand why they are attacking the embassies, the governments of these nations didn't print anything, it was newspapers.

I don't know how much the Muslim community that rocky refers to, the one which doesn't share the extremist viewpoints, is doing to try and get their own views across. All we ever see is the more radical response, even in public marches like over the past few days, with "BEHEAD THE WEST", and other such garbage. Perhaps it's the fault of the media in that respect, I don't know.

Ban religion, all it ever does is cause sodding fights!

 

[Chris Davies]

Ban religion, all it ever does is cause sodding fights!

Most sensible thing I've ever fucking heard, I reckon God is a skinhead who's loving all this shit.

(I won't go drawing pictures of him though, just in-case I start World War III)

 

[Stan]

It's all about the media Classic...they make our break countries and people..
When i was at university i did a post graduatein journalism and afterwards i decided never to become a journalist (a dream shattered). Some "famous" (in Belgium) journalists showed how the media coverage goes, it's disgusting...
They showed us how western media can manipulate images so that one has the impression that a manifestation of 50 extremists before a western embassy in a muslim country looks like a real mass manifestation...

Now i know for sure that there are vitrually no independent media. 4 years ago a so-called Belgian quality paper (like the Guardian and the Independent in the UK) came with a series of articles about where i work (the social housing sector). Lots of my colleagues were described as corrupt with plenty of so-called evidence. Afterwards the Flemish government asked an audit by and independent audit company... None of my colleagues did something wrong except for one former colleague...he received a house for virtually free from a building company...a reason to go to jail in my country. At the time the man worked for a Flemish vice prime minister and there never was a complaint. The man was sent into an early retirement with a huge retirement fee and nothing ever came from it...The press never mentioned anything about him nor about the fact that the earlier allegations were false....one of my colleagues still is in treatment for a depression...
Together with a few other colleagues i was disgusted and wanted to do everything in oreder that the truth would be published...we had a large file about it all but not a single paper was interested...one day we were called to the cabinet of the minister for which the guy had worked. The guy literally told us to shut up because "you all have families and a mortgage to pay, think of that..."
A nice example of western democrcy and the role of the media in it...
Slightly off-topic, but it puts certain things in perspective...

 

[RuneEdge]

What I dont get is that if people like Rockykabir understand that there are "bad people" in this world like how he perfectly explained (and we also saw an example of one here), when they do something offending or controversial like those cartoons, why do you let that bother you?

Lets think about another example similar (but a more minor problem). Imagine if you were about 8 years old, and there were a bunch of kids that would annoy you all the time, maybe like calling you names or something. If you stood there and cried everytime, they would obviously continue to piss you off cuz they are achieving their goal. But if you ignored the verbal abuse, eventually they would get bored and realise they arent getting anywhere and would stop doing it.

Now with these muslim cartoons, its obvious that the intention was to offend people. Theres no way that someone would draw those and say it was just for a laugh and didnt mean any harm. And with so many people offended, they've achieved their goal.
But if muslims chose to ignore it, these cartoons would have been forgotten like the cheap XXX ads that you get at the back of the paper before the sports section.

This is also like the poster above me. Its pretty obvious that when we discussed/argued about Man Utd's ownership, I couldnt care less about his (totally unacceptable) hatred for a football team cuz I know there are many people like him around the world. But the fact that he quotes me in his posts shows that I bothered him and that he's pretty weak.

My point is, dont let words or drawings bother you if you understand why bad people do bad things.

 

[Milanista]

The cartoons were apparently drawn in order to test media censorship in Denmark.

 

[RuneEdge]

The cartoons were apparently drawn in order to test media censorship in Denmark.

But that doesnt make the cartoons acceptable and I'm pretty sure the artist would know that too.

 

[Massacre_1907]

The cartoons were apparently drawn in order to test media censorship in Denmark.

really ? then why they choose to draw a prophet to show disrespect and cause trouble.. if they want trouble , they can continue showing their disrespect but when terrorist test their skills they shouldnt cry about it.. What comes around , goes around

 

[Stan]

Milanista, the cartoons weren't drawn to test censorship in Denmak (look at my post on this page).

RuneEdge, you are right about my signature, i removed it...i'm finally getting over our discussion and the way you totally outwitted me in a language which isn't yours...i agree with you on what you say about the quotation, stupid of me...i apologize for it...(and i meanthis last thing, seriously)
Mentioning me and my supposed hatred in this thread is a litle bit too much honour...this thread is about really important things...not pub talk between football fans and others who "hate" their football team...please keep it out of this thread. Thanks.
.

 

[RuneEdge]

RuneEdge, you are right about my signature, i removed it...i'm finally getting over our discussion and the way you totally outwitted me in a language which isn't yours...i agree with you on what you say about the quotation, stupid of me...i apologize for it...(and i meanthis last thing, seriously)

Its nothing to apologize about, mate.
We obviously didnt like each other at that moment but thats in the past. By remembering bad things in life, you're just making it worse for yourself. Just like how you removed the signature, muslims all over the world should be ignoring these cartoons. By trying to do something about it (like protesting or marching, etc), you're basically losing the battle.

 

[Dar]

Now with these muslim cartoons, its obvious that the intention was to offend people. Theres no way that someone would draw those and say it was just for a laugh and didnt mean any harm.

I dont think that was the reason at all, and as the actual reason was also pointed out earlier in the thread maybe you should have read through the whole thread first before replying.

To say the newspaper printed the cartoons just to offend is completely wrong, in fact I wouldn't be surprised if nearly the opposite was the case, the editor's involved didn't think about what they were doing enough (if at all). There was a clear lack of thought in printing what they did, not a maliscious one.

Also I know you were trying to compare to help your point but bringing up another threads discussion (about something quite trivial compared to this) aint on, keep that stuff to the relevant thread, thanks.

 

[ClassicD]

if they want trouble , they can continue showing their disrespect but when terrorist test their skills they shouldnt cry about it.. What comes around , goes around

This, is exactly the point the cartoon is making - some Muslim people believe this is a valid reason to terrorise. What an idiotic post.:roll:

 

[mattster12]

really ? then why they choose to draw a prophet to show disrespect and cause trouble.. if they want trouble , they can continue showing their disrespect but when terrorist test their skills they shouldnt cry about it.. What comes around , goes around

Ridculous....your logic is idiotic!!! How can a cartoon justify the murdering of innocent people. Draw some cartoons back if they want but it is no reason to murder people. Honestly it winds me up so much when I hear the total lack of respect for life that some morons in this world have. Can you honestly tell me that even one life should be taken for the drawing of a cartoon ffs???!!!

 

[RuneEdge]

(I won't go drawing pictures of him though, just in-case I start World War III)

We'll leave that to Hutch.

 

[EatonTJ]

Now Iran is rioting... Great stuff.

Can someone explain political satire to the Muslim world?

 

[EatonTJ]

Also, an Iranian newspaper is now calling for their own editorial cartoon contest in which the best cartoons "denying the existance of the holocaust" (or I suppose otherwise knocking the West) will be printed to see how the West likes a taste of their own medicine.

My prediction No one outside of Iran will care.

"This just in, Iranians deny the Holocaust happened"... seriously, how is that news?

 

[Dar]

That'll learn us....

 

[MonkeyJug]

Also, an Iranian newspaper is now calling for their own editorial cartoon contest in which the best cartoons "denying the existance of the holocaust" (or I suppose otherwise knocking the West) will be printed to see how the West likes a taste of their own medicine.

My prediction No one outside of Iran will care.

"This just in, Iranians deny the Holocaust happened"... seriously, how is that news?

an islamic newspaper in holland or belgium published one which showed hitler in bed with anne frank, saying 'put this in your diary' - i think he was about to shag her...

ROFL - how childish is that!!

 

[Dar]

an islamic newspaper in holland or belgium published one which showed hitler in bed with anne frank, saying 'put this in your diary'

Haha, thats made my day. :lmao:

 

[EatonTJ]

an islamic newspaper in holland or belgium published one which showed hitler in bed with anne frank, saying 'put this in your diary' - i think he was about to shag her...

ROFL - how childish is that!!

What's funny, is that somebody thinks that's political satire. Ah, the stone ages.

 

[gerd]

I don't think those Iranian cartoons are funny Eatonj, but i think they are (granted rather childishly) trying to make a point which you don't see...
The Danish cartoons weren't particularly funny either...
The fact that (some) Muslim people overreact is stimulated by the way we treat the muslim world for nearly sixty years now...(since 1948 to be exact).
The Muslim countries are mere pawns on the world chess field and every time there is a country that that rebels against "the first world" this country is sees as evil.
Some examples: Reza Pahlavi was a tyrant but he was "our tyrant" nothing wrong , then came the mullahs and they broke with the west: evil tyrants.
So in the very first Gulf War Saddam Houssein was "our" tyrant...
Later on he attacked "our" allies Koeweit (no exactly a democracy) and "we" considered him an evil tyrant...
Meanwhile in Afghanistan "we" supported both the Taliban and what later became Al Qaeda because they fought against the USSR.
Later the Taliban and Osama suddenly became evil.
Meanwhile in Israël and Lebanon Israël and his allies wanted to counter Al Fatah and started funding a sjiite groupuscule: Hamas...
When Al Fatah had to leave Lebanon for Tunis, suddenly both Israël and their allies became aware of the danger that was posed by Hamas and suddenly the freedom fighter once again became terrorists...
Do i have to mention what father Bush did to the Shiite minority in Iraq after the second Gulf War???
The West is loosing the war against terrorism because they have not the sligthest clue how to fight it (by leaving the Middle East alone).

If you think this is only about cartoons Eatonj, you miss the point...

But i guess i'm a leftist...

 

[Bule]

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAAAH!

you're not allowed to say it was funny! may allah strike you down like the dog that you are!

:p

What a bastard you are. Everybody must respect people's religion. But Danish Newspaper's didnt showed any respect to our religion. That's why Italian Religion Man killed in Church at Trabzon. But, I agree, our reactions was not true. But, every muslim can get mad after seeing Muhammed cartoon like terorist.

These days in Muslim newspapers, everybody draws cartoon while Jesus having a party with hookers or like that. I think these cartoons are not funny. Also Danish cartoons too. These things doesnt right. But belive me, i really get mad after seeing these pictures in forum and bastards comments like MonkeyJug or others.

Please mods, just show respect and remove these pictures from forum!

 

[ClassicD]

But, every muslim can get mad after seeing Muhammed cartoon like terorist.

I understand the outrage at the visual image of your prophet, as it's forbidden. The terrorist thing however, when taken on it's own, isn't too far off the mark as far as I'm concerned - how many terrorist groups have gone on record as saying they are "doing it for Islam" or some other nonsense like that? Be angry at the image yes, but do not deny that Islamic terrorist groups use religion as an excuse to kill, and that's why the prophet is portrayed as a terrorist in the cartoon.

 

[rockykabir]

I'm going to quote a few posts - again, please don't take them as me deconstructing your arguement as they are very good (and discussion worthy) points.

I don't know how much the Muslim community that rocky refers to, the one which doesn't share the extremist viewpoints, is doing to try and get their own views across.

The extremist issue is somewhat of a problematic one in the community in this country. In most, if not all, the cases the more radical kind seem to come from youth between the ages of 16-24 (in my experience, that is). The problem with this age (as with most youth), is that you get the anarchist and immature emotions coming out - and can be very dangerous when mixing with politics. Especially when you have some random "cleric" on your case, its very easy to get some quite extreme viewpoints.

I wouldn't call these kids bad - but severely misguided. They will only promote what is taught to them. It is sad that their mindset enters a vicious circle where they are taught to believe that those, including parents, who try to detract them from these thoughts are considered as "sell-outs" - again, this may not be the case with everyone but it was with me.

I'll confess that I have entered this frame of mind (it lasted about 1 month :p) and it is quite difficult not to fall in - especially when you consider all the injustice happening in the world. Luckily, when I came to uni, I met some decent and thoughtful yet practicing muslims in my yeargroup who have helped me. Unfortunately, this may not be the case for everyone.

Not really helped by the media yet again, but to the young muslim, there are only two types of muslim you see portraying the religion (imo):

- The random extremist cleric.
- Some random sell-out cussing the religion and giving their point of view of what religion should be about.

With this in mind, its easy to get confused with your identity - and with mass confusion, you often get extremism breeding.

There is no clear cut solution to stop extremism. But, I strongly believe that it is very important for the current generation of muslims to set an example and change these stereotype images. Ideally show that they can be respected, successful in whatever they do and be a fully practicing muslim.

That is not to say that they shouldn't involve themselves in politics - but rather they should go into it with the right frame of mind - and you will not get this with an immature and extremist attitude. Although I fully support the marches and demonstrations, I think many will agree that the radical highlights were totally uncalled for. I guess some people are just there to cause a ruckus at the end of the day - its a shame as it gives everyone a bad name.

And with so many people offended, they've achieved their goal.
But if muslims chose to ignore it, these cartoons would have been forgotten like the cheap XXX ads that you get at the back of the paper before the sports section.

Although I will agree with that point to an extent for certain situations, the imagery of the Prophets is quite a big issue within Islam. Note that I mention the prophets - which includes Jesus, Moses, Abraham, Noah etc..

When you focus your life on the teachings of a few people, it is easy to idolize them (especially when you can visualise them) - which is strictly prohibited in Islam.

If an image of a random muslim was put up with bombs in their turban, it wouldn't have been so badly taken. That is something which can be so sadly related to in recent times - hence why it may be of a satirical nature. However, the portrayal of the prophet in such a manner is considered to be an unlawful attack on his personality (which is highly regarded of) - and hence the religion.

Although many have been deeply offended by the cartoons but its important to put things in perspective. I'll give the benefit of the doubt that the Danish newspaper didn't anticipate that it will create offence - or at least to the extent that it has done worldwide. Lets partake in demonstrations to make a point that this particular issue is sacred, let lessons be learnt by everyone, and lets move on. I cannot stress enough that the extreme extent of the protests are totally uncalled for and untolerated in Islam.

Also, an Iranian newspaper is now calling for their own editorial cartoon contest in which the best cartoons "denying the existance of the holocaust" (or I suppose otherwise knocking the West) will be printed to see how the West likes a taste of their own medicine.

If you believe the media and politics is the West is bad, it is nothing compared to the media in the muslim world

I must correct myself in that I cannot describe that world as being "muslim" but more of being a "faux muslim cultured" society. Sadly, an immense proportion of the politics and ongoings cannot be classified as Islamic (although it is unfortunately perceived that way by the rest of the world). Currently, no "Islamic" state exists.

For those who have knowledge on the matter, please correct me if I'm wrong, but a lot of the politics going on there is largely based on being anti-West. It is easy for many to hate the west, and the media and politicians ruthlessly uses this to sway readers and votes.

The fact that random Iranian president candidate questioned the integrity of the Holocaust probably got him a few thousand extra supporters - such is the sad case.

Another important (yet perhaps irrelevant) issue I wanted to touch on actually is this whole issue of the muslim/jewish relationship. There is a lot of history between the two religions (as well as Christianity) which I invite you to read up on. The issue of Israel however is a somewhat complex one. People against the existence of Israel should direct their anger towards the Zionists and not the Jews (however, many are zionists themselves). It is them who justify the killing of many palestinians on land which is unlawfully theirs. Unfortunately however, many seem to blur the boundary between the two and blame jewish people.

Again - contrary to belief - attack on another religion is strictly prohibited. Not many will have the same ideals as you but it doesn't mean that they should be persecuted - this is highlighted in many Islamic literature (and not from out-of-context summaries found in the News of the World).

So, as you can imagine, these cartoons/reports found in "muslim" papers are highly disregarded upon by most Islamic scholars. Most people should ignore them - unfortunately this is not the case for many


As always, I must stress that this post on a highly sensitive and complex issue doesn't represent everyone's view. I may have gotten some of my points wrong or of a debatable nature - so please consult someone with more knowledge (ideally someone without a hook for a hand!). I hope anyway, it has shed a lil light on the issue

 

[EatonTJ]

I don't think those Iranian cartoons are funny Eatonj, but i think they are (granted rather childishly) trying to make a point which you don't see...
The Danish cartoons weren't particularly funny either...
The fact that (some) Muslim people overreact is stimulated by the way we treat the muslim world for nearly sixty years now...(since 1948 to be exact).
The Muslim countries are mere pawns on the world chess field and every time there is a country that that rebels against "the first world" this country is sees as evil.
Some examples: Reza Pahlavi was a tyrant but he was "our tyrant" nothing wrong , then came the mullahs and they broke with the west: evil tyrants.
So in the very first Gulf War Saddam Houssein was "our" tyrant...
Later on he attacked "our" allies Koeweit (no exactly a democracy) and "we" considered him an evil tyrant...
Meanwhile in Afghanistan "we" supported both the Taliban and what later became Al Qaeda because they fought against the USSR.
Later the Taliban and Osama suddenly became evil.
Meanwhile in Israël and Lebanon Israël and his allies wanted to counter Al Fatah and started funding a sjiite groupuscule: Hamas...
When Al Fatah had to leave Lebanon for Tunis, suddenly both Israël and their allies became aware of the danger that was posed by Hamas and suddenly the freedom fighter once again became terrorists...
Do i have to mention what father Bush did to the Shiite minority in Iraq after the second Gulf War???
The West is loosing the war against terrorism because they have not the sligthest clue how to fight it (by leaving the Middle East alone).

If you think this is only about cartoons Eatonj, you miss the point...

But i guess i'm a leftist...

While I understand that there has been some turmoil in the Middle East from seemingly the dawn of man... turmoil that can envolve EU, USA, etc., the rioting currently going on in the Middle East is about the cartoons.

If it wasn't for these cartoons, they wouldn't currently be rioting and destroying Danish embassies. Yes, while past history shows the Muslim world has gone nutso before, their current crazy behavior is caused by some political satire. That's that.

Also, the Danish cartoons weren't meant to be funny, they were meant to be satirical (which they were). I was making fun of the Iranian version of "satire" which isn't satire at all.