Spanish La Liga Thread

shitty ref killed rayo vallecano's little hopes. if that is red card, ramos should probably be banned from football forever for the elbow at the first half yet the guy who was elbowed ridiculously got a yellow card. still it's being a great game football-wise so far, straight EPL-like.
 
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First of all, and to make it clear, I think Madrid deserves to be up there.

But the referees this year are being beyond scandalous, it seems we're in the Plaza era again. I've watched almost all of Madrid and Barcelona matches this season. All the difficult matches have witnessed very blatant errors of the refs favorishing Real. It seems that Mourinho finally had what he wanted, and that's why he stopped crying.

This season it's almost impossible to send off Madrid players (although they are playing on the limit of the rules or straightly kicking people all the time). It's just impossible to award a penalty against Madrid while they have been awarded up to 11 penalties in what is a record in the league. And a lot of opponent players have been wrongly sent off at the first chance (4 in the last 5 matches!!).

And how many agressions must Pepe do to be banned from this league? He got away with yet two more aggressions today... Is there no limit for this idiot? Can he punch and kick people at will? It's a shame, I don't understand who is protecting this animal but they're doing a terrible harm to football.

As I said, it's not an excuse and Madrid strongly deserves to be up there. Barcelona has lacked intensity in the away matches of the season (not to speak about the terrible referees that Barcelona has suffered all the season away). But even very biased sites like Marca or As recognize it, and that speaks volumes.

I remember Mourinho doing his usual crying stuff saying that Guardiola should be ashamed of his trophies and the way he had won them. So, what will Mourinho say now? Will he be ashamed? Will Mourinho wait again the ref at the parking to assault him? Will he poke someone's eye out of fustration? Will he blame Villar or Unicef now?
 
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Speaking of scandalous referees....poor Atletico :(

but again...it seems almost impossible to play against Real or Barca even when they are not at their top. They both have that 12th man on pitch.
 
yeah, first of all messi's ridiculously disallowed goal was legal. the yellow cards for Fabregas and Alves were way too harsh. this is real men's sport. Godin and Filipe Luis should leave it and switch to women's football imo. and those two offside calls were defo spot on, how funny Atletico players thought that they'd have a serious chance in each occasion. and allowing to that freekick when Atletico players hadn't set up the wall wisely served them right. the ref (probably another slave of Perez) was lucky that Barcelona won or that scandalous guy could cost the points for them. frankly, the saints are under God's protection.

man, it's no problem, it's only Barcelona, the team of saint players supported by saint fans. we should talk about these sort of things when they are for corrupt Real Madrid club and its devil players and eventually slur them endlessly. never ever dare to be realistic and objective a bit and say anything negative about Barcelona. that's how you can be seen "very fair" here.

oh and btw, Ronaldo is primadonna, Mourinho is a cheeky bastard and Pepe should be banned from football forever.
 
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You are getting ridiculous if you think you can remotely think the ref helped in any way barcelona is that you're totally lost, man. How can you caompare a match where Real Madrid was scandalously helped by the referee with a match where both Atletico and Barcelona had good and bad decisions by the ref?

I tell you, even the most biased media talk about it, but you prefer to put all that bullshit about saints and trying to attack Barcelona without any solid foundation. For every dangerous tackle of any player of any team in the league I could show you literally dozens of aggressions of Madrid players like Ramos or Pepe. BUt I forget that you may even defend Pepe at all costs. Have fun with that!
 
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Sorry mate, but 2 wrong offside calls when Falcao was 1 on 1 with Valdes, Atletico not given penalty at the and of a match for hand ball by Busquets(correct me if I have spelled his name wrong), Fabregas not given red card for that horrible tackle...and you say that is not helping?
 
Sorry mate, but 2 wrong offside calls when Falcao was 1 on 1 with Valdes, Atletico not given penalty at the and of a match for hand ball by Busquets(correct me if I have spelled his name wrong), Fabregas not given red card for that horrible tackle...and you say that is not helping?
2 goals disallowed for Barcelona, + yellow cards for offensive handballs (there's not even a rule for that!).

About Fabregas.. dunno, but Juanfran just placed his foot there delibately to get fouled... it's a common thing a lot players nowadays do in these situations, I don't like it at all! so it was never a red card imo, watch it closely.. he also made more of it then there was..

You could see a lot tackles by Atletico, some of which were really bad, e.g. vs Busquets midway through the first half, if I recall correctly.
 
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Are you really sane? Atletico could have been with 10 men in the first half after some very dangerous tackle. Fabregas tackle was just as dangerous as those by Turan, Tiago or both CBs. All of them did tackles as dangerous as Fabregas. So dont play the hipocresy here because Atletico was VERY aggresive for most of the match.

Speaking of the offsides, saying there were 2 on on one is just a lie, there was only one and this things happen. I think the second one you are refering to that play were an atletico player was 40 meters away of goal and in the sideline? Come on!

The busquets hand at the end may have been a penalty, though the player is being pushed by another atletico player and is clearly not in control of his body. Plus, I see you clearly missed the probable penalty to Pedro.

Plus, Kanoute even talks about the Messi goal when Barcelona didnt ask for a wall... So where's the ref scandal here? Not even the most biased medias are perverting the story as you too do, come on.

I guess any of you watched the Madrid match today. Its obvious you didnt.
 
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Can i interrupt this with a simple and innocent question?3


How did Courtois do?

Generally he did well, it wasn't spectacular, but he command's his area well and he looks a lot better with Simeone in charge, who seems to have a very good understanding of the defensive side of the game compared with the previous managers. I think Simeone has strengthend the whole back line at Atletico, Godin and Miranda are forming a good partnership and Courtois has been well protected by them. Neither Manzano nor Flores were able to build a strong defence at Atletico, in fact the last manager who built one as strong as this was Javier Aguirre. Personally I think Simeone's Atletico is probably the third strongest team in Spain at the moment, and if they hadn't been so bad under Manzano they would be inline to finish 4th, maybe even 3rd and direct into the CL groups. Courtois has looked like a very good keeper, especaially the last few weeks, I don't know if he will stay there next year as Chelsea might call him to London, I would guess Atletico will play Asenjo if that happens, but he isnt as good and will not save the team points the way in which Cortois will. Personally I think the Belgian would be better staying in Madrid to 2013.

I think if the Barcelona fans are saying Atletico should have had players sent off they are living in cloud cookoo land. In terms of the laws of the game, it's important to remember, it's not (yet) illegal to tackle Barcelona players. If you start saying that Atletico players should have been sent off then you could say that Alves should have been sent off - for me it's correct the game ended 11 vs 11. I think the decision to give that last free kick at the end was a bit weak, the Barca player went down like he'd been hit with a snipers bullet (or to phrase it another way he went down like Buscuits), for me it was 75% not a free kick 25% a free kick.

You cannot say refs have punished Barca on the evidence of last night, the ref was mostly right with his decisions, indeed some of the marginal ones actually went for Barca (that free kick and also at the end Buscuits could have been in trouble for hand ball at the very end - I'm not saying that he should have been done, but the ball hit his hand and he jump leading with his hand, so in some situations these have been given), was Alves is goal offside, it looked 50-50 so maybe the benefit of doubt should go to the attacker, but it was very close and if refs were really "out to punish" Barca they could have disallowed it. In the end the result was probably fair and I'm not saying it should have been 1-0 to Atletico, but I think you can say the refs didnt punish Barca in this match, and I don't agree with the notion of refs swinging the title to Real Madrid. In my opinion Real Madrid have been more efficient, more clinical and to be honest a better side than Barca over the course of 25 games. There seems to be more hunger from the Real players, more doggedness and a desire to finish off the opposition, whereas Barca seem to be content to go a goal up and then just passivly play out the game which always leaves the opposition with a chance, it's almost as though the system of mini 5-6 meter passes in midfield has smothered the teams ability to change the system. They can't really play as direct as Real and I think the talk of refs is a bit of a side issue.

Also to the guy who complained about Barca getting yellow cards for handball, from what I've read there is a new directive from the federation to give yellows for deliberate handball, and I agree with both anyway as for each handball, if not spotted, would have resulted in an illegitimate goal.
 
Also to the guy who complained about Barca getting yellow cards for handball, from what I've read there is a new directive from the federation to give yellows for deliberate handball, and I agree with both anyway as for each handball, if not spotted, would have resulted in an illegitimate goal.

Yes, maybe it was not totally clear, but... what I meant was, that the only league I see such bullshit yellow cards is the Spanish, I watch a lot Bundesliga, and some Serie A & EPL, and only in Spain I've seen players getting yellows for offensive handballs, especially if they were hit from such close range as yesterday. Also you can't argue that you see about 3 times as many referee mistakes in La Liga compared to the other big leagues, really worrying me! Look at the red cards in the Granada - Sociedad match last week.. or the Real Madrid matches each week (Ramos not getting a red lol), and a lot other matches, too. There is no consistency whatever in refereeing in Spain.

So, about referee decisions against Barcelona: yesterday he did get 2 offside calls wrong, yes, but there were as well those 2 in my opinion perfectly fine goals, I guarentee they had been given in Germany England etc. Anyway, if any of you watched all Barcelona matches this season, you'd have seen a LOT penalties not given, in fact, only 3 given, while Real got 10, imo it should be at least similarly high for two teams creating a similar ammount of goalscoring chances per game, but whatever.

Biggest problem for Barcelona nevertheless is the backline, Abidal and Puyol especially are nowhere near their form last season, which is sad and why I think they need to spend money for some CB / LB next summer.
 
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Ronaldo is a machine, unbelievable goal-scoring record he has.

Can't see Real giving it up with the lead they have.


FD
 
If the gap stays as it is until the final Clasico, then Real will win it.

If Barca manage to get it down a bit, then beating them at the Camp Nou could cause a capitulation.

Will certainly be interesting to see. I reckon Barca are done pissing about in away games now, they've got the bit between their teeth.
 
Can i interrupt this with a simple and innocent question?3

How did Courtois do?

Gerd, Courtois was perfectly fine, though he wasn't as tested as Valdes. Barcelona chances were either out of target or in. In my oppinion, in the Messi goal it's Messi's genius, not Courtois fault. He couldn't know that Barcelona had not asked for a wall.

I rate Courtois very high. He's an excellent player already at his age and can see him turning into THE goalkeeper of one of the big clubs of Europe (he IS already in a big club like Atletico, but you get me).

I think if the Barcelona fans are saying Atletico should have had players sent off they are living in cloud cookoo land. In terms of the laws of the game, it's important to remember, it's not (yet) illegal to tackle Barcelona players.

You cannot say refs have punished Barca on the evidence of last night, the ref was mostly right with his decisions, indeed some of the marginal ones actually went for Barca

But that's exactly the point I was making, the ref was quite good and the dubious decisions very REALLY dubious. Watching the game live I never had the feeling that the ref had ignored or failed at something for any team. There were good and bad decisions for both teams and if anything, Barcelona was slightly benefited. But nothing out of the ordinary. Busquets hands were almost impossible to see live and that was the main mistake! In fact, the ref was great disallowing Messi's first goal, that was hard to see live! And I think it was a deserved yellow for Messi.

About the tackling, it's ok to tackle players, but also you have to take into consideration the type of tackling. In the Atletico match, in the first 30 minutes there are 4 tackles from Atletico players from behind, with no intention to play the ball at all, and stepping into the Barcleona player ankle, and it's probable that they were with the intention of harming the player. I've seen a lot of reds in the Premier for that. The rerf decided they were yellows, it's ok, but then Fabregas and Alves plays were yellow as well. So, strictly from a point of consistency, the ref was consistent during the whole match. Personally I don't agree with his criteria. I would have sent off the Atletico players as well as Fabregas, as I don't tolerate this kind of injury-risk tackles.

In La Liga, it's a problem of consistency. Barcelona players are hacked down very violently and there's hardly any red card. Watch the Classicos, Real Madrid players can get away with murder most of the time with barely consequences. It's hard to find a Classico where Real Madrid didn't deserve to end with only 8 or 9 players in the pitch, but the refs are too tolerant.

Beyond this, if anyone had watched all Barcelona matches, the referees have been quite bad for us in a lot of matches. Granted, in some others we have been slightly benefited, as I THINK WE WERE against Atletico. But that's only normal, refs sometimes take and sometimes give. As I said, that's not an excuse for the Liga table. Only that the mistakes against us were too blatant. It's absurd that no referee has awarded any penalty to Messi in a year. I just can't buy it.

My original point was the refs with Real Madrid have been scandalous for months compared to any other team in La Liga, week in week out. Players like Ramos and Pepe can get away with anything. There are no penalties against them even in the most blatant situations. It's only ridiculous that Pepe has had the same amount of yellows than Messi and both have to rest next week!

Offensive teams use to have more decisions in favor simply because they spend a lot of time attacking in dangerous positions. But the refering with Madrid this year has been truly beyond common sense, and that's even stated by some very Madrid-biased media. Despite this, MAdrid has been better than Barcelona overall and deserves the first position in the table.

Personally, I think that violence should be put out of the game. You can try to find a compilation of aggressive tackles or agressions by Barcelona players (or any other team in La Liga) and will find only a few. Then look for Madrid aggressions and violent tackles without punishment, and you'll be flooded.

In the Premiere League, a team like Madrid would end practically all matches with less than 11 players on the pitch. I see a lot of Premier matches, and while contact is allowed (and I like it a lot), there's a big effort to put violence of any kind out of the pitch, and I respect and admire the Premiere a lot for this.

Just as a quick example, Parker (and a lot of other players in matches I watched) was sent out at the Emirates for the exact same tackle that only costed yellows for 4 Atletico players in the first 30 minutes. And in the case of Madrid, Ramos elbowed a Rayo player very blatantly inside the area, with the ball meters away. The Rayo player is down with blood in his mouth. And the ref shows a yellow to the Rayo player! Then in the second half sends off a Rayo player when there wasn't even a foul. That's the kind of things that really smell fishy.
 
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In the premier you can say some British according to their passport :P get away from punishment w/o naming names. Does this happen in La Liga. where Spanish players get away from punishment?
 
If you count Pepe as Spanish, definitely!

But really, I think in Spain is more a clubs thing. It's harder to send off a Barcelona player than a Valencia player, and harder still to send off a Madrid player than a Barcelona player. There seems to be a ladder of prestige that makes too much influence on the refs if we speak strictly of straight red cards. The media have a lot of responsability on this. Spanish media are as shit as they are powerful.
 
And yet another match in which up to three Madrid players touched the ball with their hands and there wasno penalty given. Kaka should have been sentoff clearly, but... Hey It's Real Madrid, you can' send off anyone of their players and definitely you can't concede a penalty against them!

Week in week out it's the same story in the away matches...

It was a great match and definitely Betis deserved a lot more. They had the ball, played nice and created danger. Madrid won because of their awesome efficacy and their counterstrike speed. The third goal had an offside, but that's difficult to see live by the ref, unlike the other actions.

Great Betis, playing like that salvation will happen.

as for Madrid, they have literally the trophy in their hands! :COAT:
 
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I don't think brand Real Madrid had anything to do with last nights game, simply poor decisions from both referees.
 
@drekkard attack from which Betis scored for 1-0 started with foul on Ozil by two players, and there was a handball by Betis' player at the edge of RM's penalty area.

Also, when Alonso touched ball with hand the ball already was out behind goal line, which referee didn't saw either. Ramow haven't played with hand, ball has struck him in his knee.

Also the third EM goal was not offside.
 
Sorry cuky but not only Ramos definitely touched the ball with his hand, but also Marcelo did! and Alonso is definitely hands dude, no way to deny it. if it should be penalty or not is for the ref to decide. And about the first Betis goal, it could have had a foul to Ozil, though I didnt see any replay, nor have seen it featured anywhere. the betis player slightly touches the ball with the hand, something that could only be seen in slow motion replays.

In the other hand, there were a lot of replays in which you can see Ramos playing handball. And Marcelo too. i can understand the ref not seeing things now and then, but Everytime? its only natural that refs have rights and wrongs. but is a little too much that not a single penalty can be whistled against Madrid, nor their players can be sent off. Did you see Kaka? Having a yellow he tackles from behind and the refs forgive him! What should a Madrid player do to get sent off? i'm only asking!

tobi: well, in my oppinion Madrid has something to do. mourinho has been all year shouting and crying, Florentino has put 2 friends in the comittees and they are getting away with very dirty things. Mourinho poking eyes? no ban! pepe stepping people? No ban! Ramos elbowing a striker? yellow for the striker and no ban! Mourinho waiting the ref in the parking lot to shout him? No ban! Marcelo doing an aggression? or Pepe? No bans!

there is some kind of impunity there. as I said, its only natural that refs have good and bad calls. all the teams have win and lost some points because of it. All but Madrid. isnt it a little odd?

i dont think in conspirations of any kind, but I think Mourinho and Florentino put too much pressure on referees and have too much power, so the refs end up shitying themselves when they have to ref a Madrid game. They are humans and they fear errors against Madrid more than against any other club. There is too much pressure on them. Who is to fault then?

Dont you think its odd that there hasnt been any penalty against Real amd no players sent off? out of 15-20 dubious plays, how can it be that not a single one has been whistled against them? Just asking!
 
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Is it well known that Florentino has people on the committee? That's a conflict of interest and shouldn't be allowed.

As for the other stuff, the FA should man up and treat everyone the same.
 
Mourinho poking eyes? no ban! pepe stepping people? No ban! Ramos elbowing a striker? yellow for the striker and no ban! Mourinho waiting the ref in the parking lot to shout him? No ban! Marcelo doing an aggression? or Pepe? No bans!

Barca players diving - yellow cards for oppositions and no bans for Barca players. Racist insults towards Marcelo from Pique I think last season, no ban...

We can continue this all day long with you writing examples of referees helping RM and me writing examples of referees helping Barca. And we could only conclude that referees are helping them both. It is only because Barca's poor away form that they are so far behind.

Although I don't remember Marcelo playing with hands, I believe that you wouldn't make that up. If he played with his hand in penalty box that should have been a penalty. Ramos played ball with his knee and ball than bounced of his chest. Alonso played with hand, but it went behind goal line before that.

I have to agree that Betis deserved draw at least, but they first can't blame referee because they scored opening goal because of two mistakes in their favor.
 
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basically, you need a pair of Barça fanboy eyes and a fanatical mind to see the things that drekkard has seen in RM matches. oh and it's needed only when RM is ahead of Barça in standings. at other times feel free to fool the people by playacting 'the very fair' guy. man, isn't karma a bitch...

the only clear mistake in the match was Xabi Alonso's blatant handball. (Cuky, the ball was inside all the time.) if that penalty was given, that would change Mourinho's sub choices offensively and one couldn't know about the progress after that case. and that Ramos incident in the last minute, do you remember the similar incident happened in the last Valencia match of RM? Higuain's chestball and how Barça fanboys reacted to that? the same old bullshit all the time, just the same. I've just watched the full match and nothing was wrong bar a non given yellow card to Ramos at 18th minute and that Alonso handball. actually jumping up to ridiculous conclusions over an entire view of refereeing in the last night is just not possible. but meh, you know the typical Barcelona fanboy hypocricy. imo, a draw was very well deserved for the result but with this type of refereeing remaining in charge, people weren't and unfortunately won't be able to see the fairest results of RM's and Barcelona's matches.
 
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basically, you need a pair of Barça fanboy eyes and a fanatical mind to see the things that drekkard has seen in RM matches...

1) Then Marca and As are Barcelona fanboys then? When even the most Madrid-biased media are giving space to this... Don't lie to yourself. If you think I'm a fanboy, you are right. But that's what you are as well. Your history in the Barcelona thread shows it.

2) So, out of the other blatant plays, you didn't see Kaka from-the-back tackle that should have costed him the second yellow? Why he wasn't sent off?

3) Khedira in the third goal is clearly offside and in the trajectory of the ball, obscuring the goalkeeper vision. Many teams (incuding Barcelona at Getafe and Granada) have had goals disallowed this season for this. In fact, the first reaction of Khedira is to watch the linesman because he is aware of that. I know it may be difficult to see, but it's there.

4) It's the fourth match in a row away in La Liga in which the referee ignores at least one penalty and at least one red card against Madrid. That's just facts, put all the make-up you want at it.

5) You elude the part of the bans. The fact that Real Madrid players can get away with aggressions through all the season with impunity.

6) As I said many times, Madrid deserves to be ahead this year. It has been the most solid team and when things go wrong they just take their chances. But that doesn't change the fact that, due to the high pressure they have put on the referees, there have been lots of dubious decisions.

It's not a case of a single match being a robbery or not, it's the feeling that there hasn't been a single match in which the refs costed points to the team. And this has happened to ALL other teams, it's the natural tendency. I would like to know your oppinion on WHY there hasn't been any single penalty against Madrid this season, considering the high amount of suspectful plays that have happened. Out of 15 potential penalties, the referees conceded none. Isn't this a little odd?

Refs do right and wrong with ALL the teams. Barcelona this season has won a bit because of the refs and has lost quite some. Other seasons has won more than lost. It's how things are. I can understand that. Refs are human beings and are allowed to fail. I don't believe in any kind of conspiracy.

7) The problem is that Real Madrid has done a lot to put pressure on referees and try to create fear. They have the most powerful media in Spain (Florentino himself owns shares of both As and Marca), heck they even signed a former referee to "ease" the relationships with the current ones.

Mourinho has systematically put pressure on referees to the point of making absurd public lists of the errors against Madrid, including throw ins. He has even waited the refs on the parking lot to accuse them, and Florentino has been backing him up with all his power.

And the refs are only normal human beings. This pressure is too much for them. So Mourinho has succeeded. Not a single ref is brave enough of sending off a Real Madrid player or concede a penalty against them. Not even Pepe has been sent off after some scandalous behaviors.

The referees don't start the match biased, at all. It's only that in critical moments of the match, specially in red cards and penalties, they are so afraid of whistling that they don't.
 
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I'm getting sick and tired of all these discussions about referees. I'm the first to defend referees, because they have by far the most difficult job in football and only earn a fraction of what players and coaches earn.

But it is a fact that in each and every league big clubs are advantaged. Coaches like Ferguson and Mourinho have made it a constant weapon to put refs under pressure and influence them. The same goes for clubs like Juventus and Real Madrid who have been doing this for ages. That is also why recently those two clubs are less succesfull in Europe than in their national competition. This is no speculation this is a fact.

This said i don't think everybody will agree that Barcelona have only to blame themselves if Madrid will win La Liga. To be fair to him, i also think that drekkard has always conceded that Madrid deserve to win La Liga.

You could ask the question whether it's Madrid that won La Liga or Barcelona that lost it. I think the last classico will be important for Madrid. If they can't win this one, there will always be some sort of doubt about this upcoming title...People like me will always point out that despite Madrid winning the title, Barcelona is still the best team and plays the best football.

Concerning refs: both managers and players who influence refs should get punished very harsh.
 

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Great, Kanoute, once again you refuse to comment posts. great answer, with very solid points. I could put another silly animated gif but I prefer to discuss things.

Gerd: I understand people being sick of the same discussion forever. At least you got what my points were and at least you read properly my posts. I think Madrid will win La Liga because it has been more solid. Even if they loose to Barcelona again, they have shown to be better in consistency and will of winning.
 
That's what you've always said Alex...when one reads your posts carefully.
That was indeed pretty classless kanouté...in a discussion one uses arguments or one just agrees to disagree...that was a silly statement.
 
Just sounds like sour grapes to me. Most neutrals would agree that the big two in Spain tend to get the big decisions go their way, just like most big teams around Europe.

Real have had a bit more luck in this regard than Barca this season but that doesn't fully explain the 10 point gap.
 
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