Spanish La Liga Thread

ronaldo now made the monster record of 40 goals for two years in a row in la liga and messi's total goalrecord this year sounds even more freak being 60+ already. well, I personally don't believe it's the most difficult generation for the top-tier strikers as there are not many tough and wise defenders around as were in the near past but still these guys are absolutely legendary with the way they dominate the charts consistently. hell, they've even started to break their own records. the only thing that bothers me when praising them would be their performances for the national teams.. anyway, hope they'll stay injury-free all the time so we can keep witnessing some history.
 
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I'm not impressed by Mourinho's Real Madrid.
Give me the budget he could spend and i can also play good football. Against the only real test they have in Spanish football, they play very negative anti-football.

It's true that i was excited when watching Mourinho's Inter...i watched the grass on the pitch growing and that was the most exciting thing to watch...

In the CL Real Madrid have had a free ride until now...

A CL final between Barcelona and Real would be the most normal thing in the world considering their budget (as much as i would hate such a final) and the team which looses has failed...it's a simple as that.

Ronaldo is a good player, but in big matches and tournaments he fails time after time because basically he is an egoïst and football is a collective sports. If he plays a big tournament or a final his ultimate aim seems being the best player...Messi wants his team to win, that is the reason why Messi is much, much better than Ronaldo. IMO Ronaldo is not even the second best player in the world. I rate both Xavi and Iniesta higher and maybe also players like Özil and Schweinsteiger...
 
I could care less who the better player is between the two. Not sure why people debate it. It is all subjective and doesn't mean anything. The only thing that matters is winning trophies.
 
When has Ronaldo failed in big matches? The only matches I remember were against only Barcelona with both Manchester and Real Madrid but he was decisive in some like when he scored the header in the cup final. The game against Atletico was a big match and he basically got Real the 3 points.
 
CL finals?
Classico's?
Tournaments with Portugal?

Those are big matches. Not a match against Atletico that Real are winning for the last 15 centuries...


Cristiano Ronaldo is with Zaltan one of the most gifted players ever. Yet i would not want one of them in my team. Thet are both super individualists in a team sport (although in the matches against Barcelona, Zlatan made some marvelous passes, i don't see him that much, so i could be completely wrong....would not be the first time).

And about Ronaldo, of course i'm wrong, his record is amazing...but don't ever quote me on that...i will never concede that :P:P:P
 
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Ronaldo is nowhere near as egoic or an individualist as Zlatan.

His reputation is far worse than he actually is.

He's a decent guy. He's just no Messi. ;)
 
Exactly, he's a phenomenon but unfortunetly he's up against a guy who will probably go down as the best ever, doesn't take away Cristiano has the potential to be top 10 of all time.
 
What he can say is he has done it in two of the highest standard leagues (Spain and England) and at different clubs that have very different styles and ideas of play. I would also say that he has generally been a sucessful player for Portugal. He was a key player in the team that were runners up in 2004, scoring the opener against the Dutch in the 2-1 semi final win. For WC2006 he scored a lot of important goals in qualification for the Portuguese, only Pauleta scored more for them, and similarly in Euro 2008 qualification. I'd argue Messi, in an Argentine national team with superior players to Portugal, hasn't achieved as much at international level.
 
gerd said:
CL finals?
Classico's?
Tournaments with Portugal?
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CL final vs. Chelsea, he was pretty much OK. Wasn't with the extra CR stuff he's usually shown but wasn't a flop whatsoever as well. Personally, I think it was one of the best performances of his career. But yeah, since there wasn't Barcelona in that match you did pass the game by I guess.

CL final vs. Barça, he was like the only ManU player who's really tried to do something throughout the game. The rest were like shocked and mostly clueless. Well, he just couldn't live up to the expectations and badly flopped imo too but had he won the game (or rather 'beaten Barça') on his own I'm pretty sure about that people like you would still not appreciate the guy labelling him with the usual 'selfish & arrogant primadonna' stuff. Oh, and btw, for the rest of these two tournaments, he simply was the leading force of ManU on reaching finals which you don't ever like to remember of course.

El Clasicos, the matches I've been usually disappointed with him. He'd just been consistently diving, trying some stupid stuff like taking on Alves & Pique/Puyol & Busquets all together, shooting from ridiculous distances, ignoring his teammates most of the time etc. BUT, one thing the likes of you ignore all the time, it's the fuckin Barcelona team. How many players you know who's performed so well vs Barça on a regular basis? I mean, seriously, how many do you know? Barcelona doesn't let their opponents play by the help of their excellent strategies (I don't find it's wrong or bad of course so please don't come up with the stupid "blind hater" stuff to me), they are having the ball all the time and what's Ronaldo supposed to do then? To partner with Marcelo or Alonso in defence leaving the front side to the 'ghost' Higuain or the 'wasteful' Benzema or the 'always tired in the second half' Özil? He may be a selfish one for your liking but not every player should adapt himself to the total football or the current Barça tactics. It'd be a fuckin boring world every superstar doing the typical stuff. Anyway, back to topic, the things I mentioned above aside, Ronaldo's always been working his socks off in El Clasicos as one just can't deny that. I still clearly remember the epicness of his efforts and how he still kept running with only few breaks in the extra time of the Copa del Rey final last year (and that header as well). And, I must also say that he did pretty good job in the last two or three El Clasico's as well.

For the national side, he's been performing at least as bad as your 'much, much better' Messi. Simple as.

Those are big matches. Not a match against Atletico that Real are winning for the last 15 centuries...
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For crying out loud, you must be kidding right? It was a real must-win game against a very good team indeed. History doesn't play on the pitch, it was straight like Ronaldo alone earned the points for Real Madrid as he's countlessly done especially this year. No point in diminishing the importance & the difficulty of that match and taking the credit away from the guy with that kind of 'reasoning'.

Ronaldo is a good player, but in big matches and tournaments he fails time after time because basically he is an egoist and football is a collective sports. If he plays a big tournament or a final his ultimate aim seems being the best player...Messi wants his team to win, that is the reason why Messi is much, much better than Ronaldo. IMO Ronaldo is not even the second best player in the world. I rate both Xavi and Iniesta higher and maybe also players like Özil and Schweinsteiger...
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You say that football is a collective sports but somehow you also know to single out Messi from a team (a team that is the best one at teamplay by a mile) where he's been playing for approximately ten years and he has Xavi & Iniesta whom you consider better than Ronaldo by his side too. I'm not one of those who claim the bullshit Messi's only good with Xavi & Iniesta but as a matter of fact what you say is one hell of a contradiction. In contrast to that, I and most of the CR fans would feel no problem singling him out for comparisons (which honestly I'm sick of thanks to retarded haters around) cuz he had the guts to leave his ivory tower in England and proved himself in the Spanish league too. Simply put, his records speak for themselves. He's even legendary with the way he's 'super individualist' as claimed. He's providing some variety in the games more than any other footballer does imo. And, of course, he needs a bit of the fucking selfishness to show what he's got. To be honest, it's ridiculous to say that he's 'basically' an egoist player for someone who's watched Real Madrid's matches in last two years consistently which I don't believe you did at all. He just seems to have grown in personality over the years as well. Anyway, just feel free to tell us a few about him if you got to know him in person so we can get our facts right, sir.

Give me the budget he could spend and i can also play good football.
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Hah, as if Madrid was playing this good (entertaining) for all the time last decade. In fact, even bigger budget than Mourinho spent was always out there with RM's past coaches, maybe you should some time try your luck, too. ;)

It's true that i was excited when watching Mourinho's Inter...i watched the grass on the pitch growing and that was the most exciting thing to watch...
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Mourinho's Inter career was not just about one night. His team (and Zlatan for the first year) was my main reason to watch Serie A those two years. The passion he brought to the team & fans was easily being felt in the matches at Giuseppe Meazza. Personally, I just love that kind of stuff. Anyway, look, I'm not a fan of being so subjective but, if all these things you say are because he made you pissed off by eliminating Barcelona that way that year, then you too basically are a usual 'hater/fanboy', not only a 'sympathizer'. But, honestly I believe that you're not such a guy (damn you always proved me wrong about you :p), everybody can have his own opinions, that's for sure. To me, you only sound like haven't watched Mourinho's teams as consistent as me. That's all about it, I hope.
 
His record against Barça's improving, scored in both legs of the Spanish Cup semis.

He'll never have as good a Clasico record as Messi but he's far from a big game bottler or any of that rubbish.
 
Every game in the Spanish, English, Italian championship etc... is a big game!
 
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messi is the best in finals..no only goals, he play, pass, figth...
ronaldo only scored 2 goals (cl chelsea, spanish cup) but, he don't good play...only in spanish cup he played good...

in clasicos, ronaldo last matches scored any goal..but no is the best ronaldo...messi in every clasico, is a beast...

sorry, ronaldo is a great player fron atl.madrid, levante, wigans, and this teams...but front barcelona and the best teams don't play same...
 
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I dislike Mourinho's attitude towards football and the spirit he engenders in his teams.

As for Messi struggling at international level. Hardly. He was the best player in the WC2010 side and also at the Copa. This despite the enormous handicap of two managers who have never managed at any decent level.

Under Sabella his performances and that of the side as a whole are picking up as seen against Colombia and Switzerland.

The best thing for La Liga would be a collective TV deal because as it is the old firm can financially squeeze the life out of their opponents.

Valencia keep producing players. Perhaps the Nou Mestalla will help but they lose their youngsters season after season.

Bilbao have an excellent cantera. Bielsa who created the Barca philosophy taken up by his pupil Pep can expect vultures from across Europe trying to dismember his side.

In view of this Real and Barca can expect to slug it out as in the SPL ad infinitum which detracts from the excitement of the league.
 
Kanouté, i don't like the agressive tone in your post.
It's easy to see me as a Barcelona fanboy...somebody with a litle more intelligence who take the time to read my post will know better.

Concerning Ronaldo and the final with Man Utd. You are totally wrong. I wonder if you have seen the match. In fact until Eto'o's goal Man Utd were by far the better team (and as a team) but Ronaldo ket on shooting from distance instead of passing to better placed team mates (something he does fairly regularly for Portugal in big tournaments too). In fact when Eto'o's goal fell, it was a litle bit undeserved for Barcelona...dominating a (short while) of a match is not something that is done by one player, but as a team effort.

As for Ronaldo: i've already conceded that he is much better than i gave him credit, but you clearly decided to overlook that post as you are fond of useless controversy. Welcome on my ignore list. Ciao bella.

Ps: Ronaldinho, as always i don't agree with you...Messi is not far above Ronaldo. He is better, but the difference is minimal and the day Ronaldo plays for the team he can be as good as Messi.
 
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ALBICELESTE2010 said:
As for Messi struggling at international level. Hardly. He was the best player in the WC2010 side and also at the Copa. This despite the enormous handicap of two managers who have never managed at any decent level.
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Really, better than Higuain, who scored 4 goals in 4 games, the only player in the whole world cup to get a hattrick, and the 3rd highest overall scorer? I would say Messi was not as good as Higuain at the World Cup, by some distance too. You could even say Tevez had more impact for Argentina than Messi at the World Cup.



At the Copa America I'd argue Agüero was the most vital player. His equaliser spared Argentina in the opening match at home to Bolivia (it ended 1-1) and his two goals against Costa Rica set them up for a 3-0 win (Di Maria scored the 3rd) which they needed to finish second in the group. Messi set up one of those Agüero goals, but the other two were down to individual brilliance (Bolivia) and predatory instincts (Costa Rica) of Agüero.



I'm not saying Messi is not a great player, but in my opinion for the national team other players have stood out more at the key tournaments for Argentina. It's a valid point to say that Argentina haven't had world class coaches at some of these tournaments, but also Portugal were led by a rather inept Queiroz at the last World Cup. A manager, who despite having talents like Ronaldo, Danny, João Moutinho (arguably the star of Sporting at the time of the last WC), Simão and Nani (who he didn't even put in the sqaud), contrived to play a very sterile and cautious type of football that wasnt really suited to the players at his disposal. If you look at the Portuguese attacking players and the style that Scolari and now Paulo Bento (to a lesser extent) used, you can see that Portugal are much more suited to playing on the front foot, using quick movement and forward passing, as opposed to the Querioz style which was simple, negative possesion.
 
gerd said:
Kanouté, i don't like the agressive tone in your post.
It's easy to see me as a Barcelona fanboy...somebody with a litle more intelligence who take the time to read my post will know better.

Concerning Ronaldo and the final with Man Utd. You are totally wrong. I wonder if you have seen the match. In fact until Eto'o's goal Man Utd were by far the better team (and as a team) but Ronaldo ket on shooting from distance instead of passing to better placed team mates (something he does fairly regularly for Portugal in big tournaments too). In fact when Eto'o's goal fell, it was a litle bit undeserved for Barcelona...dominating a (short while) of a match is not something that is done by one player, but as a team effort.

As for Ronaldo: i've already conceded that he is much better than i gave him credit, but you clearly decided to overlook that post as you are fond of useless controversy. Welcome on my ignore list. Ciao bella.

Ps: Ronaldinho, as always i don't agree with you...Messi is not far above Ronaldo. He is better, but the difference is minimal and the day Ronaldo plays for the team he can be as good as Messi.
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Ronaldo never can be as good as Messi...sorry but is impossible..
Ronaldo is a great plyaer, maybe,sure, the second best player at moment, but Messi is better, is more combination, more dribbling, Messi is best in finals.I don't know..but Messi is...Messi

for me, and coachs&captains of the world...there is a big difference...


Messi is the difference..Imagine a RM with Messi...
 
cfdh_edmundo said:
Really, better than Higuain, who scored 4 goals in 4 games, the only player in the whole world cup to get a hattrick, and the 3rd highest overall scorer? I would say Messi was not as good as Higuain at the World Cup, by some distance too. You could even say Tevez had more impact for Argentina than Messi at the World Cup.



At the Copa America I'd argue Agüero was the most vital player. His equaliser spared Argentina in the opening match at home to Bolivia (it ended 1-1) and his two goals against Costa Rica set them up for a 3-0 win (Di Maria scored the 3rd) which they needed to finish second in the group. Messi set up one of those Agüero goals, but the other two were down to individual brilliance (Bolivia) and predatory instincts (Costa Rica) of Agüero.



I'm not saying Messi is not a great player, but in my opinion for the national team other players have stood out more at the key tournaments for Argentina. It's a valid point to say that Argentina haven't had world class coaches at some of these tournaments, but also Portugal were led by a rather inept Queiroz at the last World Cup. A manager, who despite having talents like Ronaldo, Danny, João Moutinho (arguably the star of Sporting at the time of the last WC), Simão and Nani (who he didn't even put in the sqaud), contrived to play a very sterile and cautious type of football that wasnt really suited to the players at his disposal. If you look at the Portuguese attacking players and the style that Scolari and now Paulo Bento (to a lesser extent) used, you can see that Portugal are much more suited to playing on the front foot, using quick movement and forward passing, as opposed to the Querioz style which was simple, negative possesion.
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Well look at Higuains hattrick. How do his goals come about ? Messi is involved in the approach play for 2 of the goals and draws several South Korean defenders in another.

It's not just about goals scored it's the overall performance of a player.

Tevez had a negative impact in 2010 and in the Copa. Messi did his duties but was constantly hampered by having a non existent midfield especially in the game againstGermany.

Inklings of the trouble to ensue were already evident against Mexico who were unlucky with one offside goal.

Aguero and Messi should play together anyway. They have had a mutual understanding since the u20 days and are good friends too. WIth Sabella things look like they are clicking into place.

However I'll wait until the June and autumn qualifiers to be fully assuaged of my fears.
 
gerd said:
It's easy to see me as a Barcelona fanboy...somebody with a litle more intelligence who take the time to read my post will know better.
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had you only done what you yourself said (reading my post) you'd see that I didn't think such despite all the same old false stuff you spoken about continuously. anyway, thanks for proving me wrong about having a bit of respect for you. I just got that you're just a clueless stuck-up.

no hard feelings about putting me on your ignore list, just proud of myself to be there.

yes, I think he will surely read this.
 
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and Real Madrid reached their record of 107 goals .. and we still have 5 games ..
I think they will score at least 8 other goals ..
 
Well if Madrid do what they did last year and just keep setting Ronaldo up for goals...

And Messi just carries on as he is...

We're witnessing greatness right now.
 
Messi is good n Ronaldo is good EVERYBODY wins ! I just wonder who will last longer at this level . If girls/women were concern We know which they prefer :P
 
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