Serie A Thread - 2014/15 Season

[vanzandt]

Re: Serie A Thread

I can't believe how open Juve are...2-1 down and wide open.

This game looks like it has a good few goals left in it one way or the other.

Seems to me that this formation plays into Roma's hands. Zanetti is in the middle on his own far to often and getting swamped. Counter attacks are leaving him screwed, Roma have two many bodies in there especially with the full backs getting forward so well too.

I know formations do not play the game, but I can't help thinking that going to a 3-5-2 would be better. Juve have to get a hold of the midfield...

Camoranesi is a big miss too, but more than anything it a lack of bodies to help Zanetti.

If that was a penalty on Pavel then I am chinese.


Second half decended into a farce for me, Roma wanted the game to end after 45 mins and lost all urgency, movement etc and just started to take the piss.

Juve looked dreadful but deserved an equaliser because Roma did not have the guts to go for a third goal. Had Roma gone for the jugular they would have walked this game.

 

[Sabac Red]

Re: Serie A Thread

If that was a penalty on Pavel then I am chinese.

Watch it again, he was clipped on the ankles by Cicinho?
it wasn't by the nudge that De Rossi gave him.


Great game through....Raneiri needs to wise up Juve
are too flat and one-dimensional.

 

[vanzandt]

Re: Serie A Thread

Watch it again, he was clipped on the ankles by Cicinho?
it wasn't by the nudge that De Rossi gave him.

I don't agree at all, I think there was minimal contact that Pavel exploited to the max.

Interesting just how different the refereeing is in each league. I have watched 10 times tougher challenges go unpunished in Scotland, England, Germany, Holland etc....

If you gave a penalty for that type of challenge you would be giving approx 3 pens a match in the EPL and Bundesliga.

Pavel is just a joke, he should be in an Olympic diving team. Any contact whatsoever and he throws himself to the ground.

I watched a replay of Celtic Hibs from Feb this year and Miller was take out completely...ten times more contact and nothing given. Yesterday I watched Man Utd Chelsea and Evra was taken down by J Cole, again FAR more contact and nothing given.

If you watch that challenge on Pavel again, even in slow motion I defy anyone to say with any definite conviction that there is any real challenge that takes him down. Was he under pressure, yes, was there the slightest contact, possibly. Was there definite contact that constituted a foul, contact that took him out or inhibited him......highly, highly doubtful.

Very poor refereeing.

Great game through....Raneiri needs to wise up Juve
are too flat and one-dimensional.

Great first half, brilliant in fact....second half was poor because Roma had decided to pack up and go home, bar the odd break....also wonder what the temperature was in Rome because that may also have been a factor.

Raneiri is a tinkerman, he will mess about with rotating players in and out of the team irrespective of results or success and that may hinder Juve.

Apart from that I think playing with three up top with only one holding player...Del piero and Pavel....at their age.

I thought Juve would do well this year...can't see it now.

How much could they do with a player like Appiah now?

 

[lo zio]

Re: Serie A Thread

here we are then....
i was in Milano early this morning....everybody asked me what did i think about "the match"....... i guess i was the only one in italy who didn't see roma-juve yesterday :lol:
anyway its not bad, afterall, coz each time i was asked, i could get away with a "actually i watched cagliari-palermo" :mrgreen:

as i wrote i didn't watch the match, so i can express myself about it... i just managed to watch a long synthesis of the match (20 mins highlights).

anyway, from what i saw, the match was pretty interesting. roma had many chance to score.... they were quite unlucky to score just twice. i was quite surprised to notice spalletti lined up almost the same formation that played during the week. i would expect more turnovers, but from what i saw roma players didn't look that tired, so maybe it was a good decision by spalletti.

i was really surprised by juve line up. playing in roma with 3 fowards.... really courageous decision by ranieri. Probably he wanted to keep the game in roma midfield, wich seems to me the right thing to do, as juve can match roma quality upfront..... while behind the midfield line they look pretty weak.
that "rhombus" line up was another wise choice, as del piero was quite free to move between roma midfield line and defensive line.
Probably, if almiron and camoranesi would have been fit, ranieri would have line up a 5 men midfield.... without those 2 guys juve loses a lot of quality.

honestly i can't say anything more about the match as i didn watch it, so i'll keep reading your thoughts guys

as for the pavel penalty, at first sight i had your same feeling, Vanzandt (i mean, except the "chinese" thing), but after watching the replay in slow motion, it's quite evident that the ref's call was correct. Cicinho didn't look for the ball, he looked for pavel feet, and he got it. there was the contact and that's the only thing that matters.... it doesn't matter how much pavel "exploited". the foul is not in the consecuence of the contact.... the foul is the contact
spalletti himself admitted there was nothing to complain about the penalty.

agree with u about the "temperature factor".. it was really hot in roma yesterday.

I thought Juve would do well this year...can't see it now.

How much could they do with a player like Appiah now?

i have to disagree with u with both statements. yesterday a weaker juve managed to get a 2-2 against one of the best teams in europe (at the moment). juve missed many key players and came from a bad loss (last week), but still ranieri was fearless, and we got to give him the credit he deserves for the result.

who could ever immagine juve would have been able to gat a 2-2 in roma, without camoranesi and almiron.... i guess this result will boost their confidence.

talking about an appiah-like player, i don't think juve needs him... juve has zanetti, nocerino and tiago. and with marchisio coming back next season, i'd say that is one of the few roles where juve is ok.

instead they badly need a pure stopper... an old-fashioned experienced italian cb, someone who can take the lead of that defensive line that is the weakest point in this juventus.....
now andrade will be out for the rest of the season...... not a good news for juve

gotta go now... later i'll write something about cagliari - palermo.

juveboy, don, where are u?

 

[vanzandt]

Re: Serie A Thread

anyway, from what i saw, the match was pretty interesting. roma had many chance to score.... they were quite unlucky to score just twice.

Yes and no. They were unlucky not to get a third goal early in the 2nd half from one clear chance and a couple of half chances..

BUT.

They were not unlucky from the point of view that they started to sit on a game they were clearly dominating. They got very sloppy in the passin and lost the impetus going forward. They seemed happy to accept the one goal lead instead of press home the advantage they enjoyed and when you do that at 2-1 you are always in danger. They really can have no complaints because they brought about their own downfall, had they of continued to take the game to Juve they would have been far more likely to have scored the goal required to put the game beyond sight.

I doubt you would have got the true impression of this via highlights though.

i was really surprised by juve line up. playing in roma with 3 fowards.... really courageous decision by ranieri. Probably he wanted to keep the game in roma midfield, wich seems to me the right thing to do, as juve can match roma quality upfront..... while behind the midfield line they look pretty weak.
that "rhombus" line up was another wise choice, as del piero was quite free to move between roma midfield line and defensive line.

Totally disagree. The formation left tons of space for Roma to comfortably pass the ball in. Juves tactics completely lost them the midfield battle, which you can’t afford to do against a side like Roma. The fact that Juve got a draw in this game has as much to do with Roma beying wasteful of chances and taking their foot off the pedal as it does to do with Juve scoring from one of their very few chances in the second half.

The tactics were awful.

Zanetti had to cope in midfield on his own and was completely over run, Pavel and Del Piero unable to help in any real way given their ability is in going forward. The three Juve players up front saw very little of the ball as the service was not there due to the lack of midfield etc.

This is all apparent in watching the full game.

Probably, if almiron and camoranesi would have been fit, ranieri would have line up a 5 men midfield.... without those 2 guys juve loses a lot of quality.

No doubt about that.

as for the pavel penalty, at first sight i had your same feeling, Vanzandt (i mean, except the "chinese" thing), but after watching the replay in slow motion, it's quite evident that the ref's call was correct. Cicinho didn't look for the ball, he looked for pavel feet, and he got it. there was the contact and that's the only thing that matters.... it doesn't matter how much pavel "exploited". the foul is not in the consecuence of the contact.... the foul is the contact
spalletti himself admitted there was nothing to complain about the penalty.

Your interpretation of the foul is wrong. Contact does NOT equal a penalty in football, football is NOT a non contact sport. The contact has to impede the player for it to be a foul. The question is does the contact impede Pavel in any way, is it a foul?

For me the contact is minimal and Pavel looks to go down at the slightest chance as he always does.

This is another area of interpretation where the refs in differing leagues are worlds apart.

It would never have been given as a penalty in any other league, doubt it would even have been given in La Liga.

Like I was saying I watched a Celtic Hibs re-run from earlier in the year and Miller gets absolutely battered in the area and no penalty was given. If that was in the Budesliga and EPL it would have been an immediate penalty…had it been in La Liga or more particularly seria a it would have be a penalty and immediate red card.

The difference in interpretation as FAR to great.

I honestly think The SPL is far to physical, but I think seria a has gone far to much the other way. Like I said football is not a non contact sport, but it is being interpreted as one in seria a. Personally I think the Bundesliga and the EPL has the interpretation more correct.

This is my personal take on this anyway

agree with u about the "temperature factor".. it was really hot in roma yesterday.

I can’t understand why at this time of year that this game is not played in the evening. A brilliant first half, but by the end of the game it had slowed down enormously….except for Guily….but he had just came on and ran like a madman.

Yesterday a weaker juve managed to get a 2-2 against one of the best teams in europe (at the moment).

There is no evidence at the moment to make this statement about Roma. Last year they did not even make a semi final and they got hammered out of the champions league and this years it is far to early to comment on the credentials of any team in Europe.

Also Juve got a draw because of Roma’s failing to sow the game up and because they managed to nick a goal. Honestly if you watched the full game you would not makes such a statement. There was very little that was good about Juve in all honesty.

juve missed many key players and came from a bad loss (last week), but still ranieri was fearless, and we got to give him the credit he deserves for the result.

who could ever immagine juve would have been able to gat a 2-2 in roma, without camoranesi and almiron.... i guess this result will boost their confidence.

You are talking in hindsight knowing what they go and having got a false impression of the game via highlights.

Juve were VERY poor, the tactics were very poor and failed completely and I very much doubt Juve can take confidence from that. I think they will feel like thieves in the night, be happy to have stolen a point and hope to get players back as quickly as possible.

talking about an appiah-like player, i don't think juve needs him... juve has zanetti, nocerino and tiago. and with marchisio coming back next season, i'd say that is one of the few roles where juve is ok.

I am talking about a player who has energy to get up and down the field, to defend and also carry the ball. Zannetti is a much needed holding player, but not an appiah type of player, tiago is a sitting passes of the ball, nocerino is well nothing like appiah etc.

Maybe you don’t like Appiah…ok think of a De Rossi…or a Gerard etc..a player with energy who can defend and go forward. Juve seem to lack this and have too many aging players…Pavel and Del Piero were never going to help Zanettis yesterday and neither was Nocerino….could Tiagno have got up and down either?

Maybe you disagree with what I am referring to and think Juve should play a different way, that is fine. But seriously they were desperately over-run yesterday and with the players out an Appiah would have made a huge positive difference to them.

instead they badly need a pure stopper... an old-fashioned experienced italian cb, someone who can take the lead of that defensive line that is the weakest point in this juventus.....
now andrade will be out for the rest of the season...... not a good news for juve

A defence always looks bad if you leave it that exposed.

I am not defending Juves defense, but honestly yesterday the fault did not lie with the defence, but with the midfield that left the defence so exposed.

If you live in the mountains and have no house you do not blame the cold on the fact that you have a thin coat.

 

[lo zio]

Re: Serie A Thread

well, vanzandt, as u say, i just managed to see the highlights, so my vision of the game is distorted. that's why i didn't go deep in the analisys.... actually i didn't analize the match at all, i just wrote a couple of things..... things that are clearely wrong according to what u're writing, so thank u for correcting me.

my opinion was mostly based on roma matches i saw before this season... they didn't concede 1 goal in the last 6 matches, and beating roma at the Olimipico stadium is some feat,
but afterall the final result is often influenced by many factors, and u're telling me that roma's responsabilities are bigger than juve credits, so i'll take for good your words (why shouldn't i? .

my statement about roma being one of the best teams in europe is honestly quite hard to confute. they are doing very well since 2 years now. they were 2nd in serie a last year and reached CL quarter finals (wich is a great result). their achievements put them among the best teams in europe (exactly as the first 4 teams in premiership, liga, bundes....etc...).

btw i wasn't talking about an "absolute ranking"... i said "one of the best teams in europe at the moment", wich means that in this season beginning they were great . besides anybody who saw them playing (at least till the roma-juve match i didn't watch) is enthusiast about their silky football.

...Last year they did not even make a semi final....

did not even??? :shock:
so a CL quarter final isn't a great result in your opinion???
then what should we say about teams like manchester utd, sevilla, inter, werder brema?
and i prefere not to ask u what do u think about teams like schalke, atletico madrid, lens or palermo, coz i guess i could be shocked by your reply :mrgreen:

Maybe you don’t like Appiah…ok think of a De Rossi…or a Gerard etc..a player with energy who can defend and go forward. Juve seem to lack this and have too many aging players…Pavel and Del Piero were never going to help Zanettis yesterday and neither was Nocerino….could Tiagno have got up and down either?

i see. actually i do like appiah (even if comparing him with "monsters" like de rossi or gerrard is a little too much imo).
anyway if u're talking about "all around midfielder", i've got the feeling nocerino will become exactly this kind of player (actually he will become much more that this imo). talking about the present, tiago is one of the best all around midfielder euroope has to offer.... we just have to wait him to findhimself at home in juventus.
Zanetti is a very, very, very useful player, and, f he won't have serious injuries, he will help a lot juve.
anyway mate, juve has a lot of central midfielder. don't forget that camoranesi too can play in that role.

talking about the defense, instead, they have some serious problem. Criscito is not yet a juve player. he will become a hell of a cb probably, but he still needs a couple of years to really improve himself (while juve has to be solid now) Grygera is quite an useful player, but his proper position on the pitch is on the side. Andrade is a good cb, but he's not a stopper. And Most important, all of them still don't know serie a and his fowards.
it's quite funny if u think that the juve defender with most experience in serie a is chiellini, who is just a guy, who used to play with our under 21 team till a couple of months ago.
that's not a "juventus defense".
and now they also lost andrade.....

Your interpretation of the foul is wrong. Contact does NOT equal a penalty in football, football is NOT a non contact sport. The contact has to impede the player for it to be a foul. The question is does the contact impede Pavel in any way, is it a foul?

sorry mate, but that's just wrong. i agree with u when u say that football is a "contact sport".... but u always have to go for the ball.
u might push your opponent have a "strong contact" with him, but u have to kick the ball, not your opponents legs, and honestly there's nothing to discuss about it.
your point about impeding the player in any way has no sense. according to this then, it would be almost impossible to do a foul to players like toni, adriano or van nistelrooy, as it's impossible "to impede them in any way"...... whilee it would be pretty easy to do a foul on a del piero, as he's quite little.
we have rules... and this rules are universal.
fifa rules: chapter "disciplinary sanctions and cautionable offences: " a player is cautioned if he is guilty of unsporting behaviour".
now if u give a kick to a leg or a feet or any other body parts of a player, that's an unsporting behaviour. Not a contact, a foul.

the threshold between a contact and a foul is the ball. when u have to establish if a player committed a foul u have to look if he was looking for the ball or for the opponent's feet. that's a directive fifa gave us 3 years ago, and there's no room for interpretation here, as it his pretty simple and clear.

the fact that pavel falls down is irrelevant. trying to establish if a player could resist to the contact and avoid to fall down it's almost impossible, and its useless as the ref doesn't have to care if the player falls or not.
otherwise the advanytage rule would have no sense, coz if the player who received the foul is still on his foot, then no foul occurred (and if this statement would be true the advantage rule would become a paradox).

the interpretation criteria become a big factor when it's about judging an aerial contact or a shoulder to shoulder contact... or in many other cases. but when a player slides hitting his opponent and doesn't hit the ball first (another fifa rule) then a foul occurred. that's it.

of course our refs schools are pretty different, and this coz of our different interpretation criteria, but in this peculiar case, there's no room for interpretation.
afterall as i said, spalletti himself admitted cicinho made a foul, so...

anyway mate, talking about our refs schools, it's true our interpretation criteria are usually quite different...
in the end it's all about point of views. english say our refs stop the game too often breaking the flow of the plays...while italians say that british refs are too permissive and leave the players beating themselves continuously, which could make harder playing a technical football.
as for me, i prefere the british school

gotta go now, thanks for sharing your views about roma-juve, vanzandt. i recorded the match but i don't know if i'll be able to watch it before wednesday (when serie a will be back again), so reading your thoughts about the game was really intersting

 

[vanzandt]

Re: Serie A Thread

my opinion was mostly based on roma matches i saw before this season... they didn't concede 1 goal in the last 6 matches, and beating roma at the Olimipico stadium is some feat,
but afterall the final result is often influenced by many factors, and u're telling me that roma's responsabilities are bigger than juve credits, so i'll take for good your words (why shouldn't i? .

My comment is based on what I saw across the 90mins nothing more nothing less. It does not mean to say I have to be right or my interpretation is the only interpretation, but I do honestly feel that highlights do not give you an accurate idea of the ebb and flow of the game and where the plaudits and responsibilities etc lie.

my statement about roma being one of the best teams in europe is honestly quite hard to confute. they are doing very well since 2 years now. they were 2nd in serie a last year and reached CL quarter finals (wich is a great result). their achievements put them among the best teams in europe (exactly as the first 4 teams in premiership, liga, bundes....etc...).

My position is based on;

A) Roma did not get beyond the quarter final and were absolutely hammered by a big European team.

B) Roma finished second in seria a by a huge margin behind Inter

C) That this was after the scandal and demotion of Juve and the loss of many of their players and the loss of points for Milan and I believe that this puts that long behind Inter second position into context.

D) That Roma have got to one quarter final and nothing prior, there has been no years in year out quality shown from them at the top European level, they have not proven themselves at the highest level against the best…..they just haven’t.

E) This season Europe is only just underway so, we have yet to see how they have moved on in European terms.

If Roma can beat big teams in Europe, consolidate and maybe go beyond what they did in Europe last year then I might consider them at that level, but not before hand.

Roma have great potential, but for me it is just that.

I do not think anything I have stated above is in question and equally you cannot refute this argument.

So I guess we will just have to agree to disagree about Roma’s “current” position in European terms.

besides anybody who saw them playing (at least till the roma-juve match i didn't watch) is enthusiast about their silky football.

Liking their football and putting them into the category as one of the best teams in Europe are not the same thing. I have hated Chelsea’s football, but they have been up there with the best in Europe, I have loved Barcelona and they are up there.

I like to watch attractive attacking football of course, but to use the term “one of the best in Europe”, you have to show that with results, not just style. Interestingly the way Roma play is both brilliant and infuriating to watch. They have fantastic short passing movements and interchanging of positions that to me puts Roma as the best passing side in Europe alongside Arsenal, but like Arsenal it is not always effective. Roma have no centre forward in the sense that Totti drops into midfield and they can sometimes be guilty of needing to walk the ball into the net or score the perfect goal…like Arsenal in season past.

so a CL quarter final isn't a great result in your opinion???

Man Utd, Milan, Liverpool, Chelsea, Barca etc reach the quarter finals nearly every year or every other year….this puts that quarter final into context.

So in a way the answer is no- not for the best teams in Europe , a quarter final is not that special. But is it great generally, yes of course it is. Most teams would be ecstatic about getting that far. Also I am not pulling Roma down, if Spalletti can built on what was achieved in Europe last year then it will put Roma in a different light. I mean even another quarter final would go a long way to affording your comment about them legitimacy. Can you see where I am coming from?

then what should we say about teams like manchester utd, sevilla, inter, werder brema?
and i prefere not to ask u what do u think about teams like schalke, atletico madrid, lens or palermo, coz i guess i could be shocked by your reply :mrgreen:

It is not a black and white world. I can easily like a lot of the football played by teams that I do not categorise as on of the best in Europe. And it does not mean if you are not one of the best in Europe that you must be crap….

I can quite easily watch and enjoy good football, whether it is played by your beloved Palermo or my beloved Everton….although some how I think it is less likely to occur with my team Haha.

 

[vanzandt]

Re: Serie A Thread

i see. actually i do like appiah (even if comparing him with "monsters" like de rossi or gerrard is a little too much imo).

The comment was meant to by-pass the translation issue….to explain what I felt Juve were missing. The comment was not meant to be one as by way of comparison of De Rossi, Gerrard and Appiah. I mention Appiah of course because he was at Juve and a box to box type of player. A player with energy, who can do a bit of everything and carry the ball.

anyway if u're talking about "all around midfielder", i've got the feeling nocerino will become exactly this kind of player (actually he will become much more that this imo).

Not playing wide right in a three man midfield he wont.

He was not really in a position to help Zanetti and I do not think as of right now he is the player I am talking about or required, so the future maybe, but the future was of no use on Sunday against Roma.

talking about the present, tiago is one of the best all around midfielder euroope has to offer.... we just have to wait him to findhimself at home in juventus.

He was nothing special at all at Chelsea. A good passer yes, but not remotely a box to box player and not very good defensively. But maybe he can settle at Juve and improve and become the right caliber of player. Maybe with more games, he probably did not have enough games at Chelsea to settle so we shall see.

Zanetti is a very, very, very useful player, and, f he won't have serious injuries, he will help a lot juve. anyway mate, juve has a lot of central midfielder. don't forget that camoranesi too can play in that role.

Zanetti is more than useful in my opinion, I think he is an excellent player. As for Camoranesi, he was missed like I said and whilst not being exactly perfect for the centre of midfield he could have done a big job in the position if required against Roma. But he was out injured and I am talking about the need for a box to box player being needed by the Juve squad as much as team, that is what I believe. If you do not agree that this is what Juve need from a tactical point of view that is fine…all good, just differing opinions.

talking about the defense, instead, they have some serious problem. Criscito is not yet a juve player. he will become a hell of a cb probably, but he still needs a couple of years to really improve himself (while juve has to be solid now) Grygera is quite an useful player, but his proper position on the pitch is on the side. Andrade is a good cb, but he's not a stopper. And Most important, all of them still don't know serie a and his fowards.
it's quite funny if u think that the juve defender with most experience in serie a is chiellini, who is just a guy, who used to play with our under 21 team till a couple of months ago.
that's not a "juventus defense".
and now they also lost andrade.....

I’m not in disagreement with anything said. But I am saying that in the context of the game against Roma;

I am saying that in that one game, that the defence was not the issue.

Get a hold of a video of the full game and look how exposed the defence was left by the massive holes in midfield. Look at how much responsibility was put on Zanetti.

So I do NOT disagree with you, but you might find yourself agreeing with me on the point I am making if you view the whole match.

i agree with u when u say that football is a "contact sport".... but u always have to go for the ball.
u might push your opponent have a "strong contact" with him, but u have to kick the ball, not your opponents legs, and honestly there's nothing to discuss about it. your point about impeding the player in any way has no sense. according to this then, it would be almost impossible to do a foul to players like toni, adriano or van nistelrooy, as it's impossible "to impede them in any way"...... whilee it would be pretty easy to do a foul on a del piero, as he's quite little.

My point is being lost in translation.

I will not try to explain it further as I see little point. I will simply say this;

No penalty would have been given In the English Premiership, or the Bundesliga, the SPL or even in La Liga.

What is given as a penalty, or a yellow or red card differs enormously and the rules are not remotely applied in a universal fashion.

I feel that the SPL interpretation is FAR too physical with only the most physical of challenges punished and I feel that seria a is the FAR too soft and gives penalties and cards FAR too easily.

They are at opposite ends of the spectrum.

You may not agree with my feelings about seria a being far too soft and giving penalties and cards far too easily, you might find that seria a has it right and the more physical leagues have the interpretation wrong. That is fine, that is your prerogative to think differently and there in no harm in that.

But you cannot say that these great discrepancies in interpretation do not exist because they absolutely do.

A curve/gradient of what Is deemed acceptable could be plotted with the most to the least aggressive football refereeing;


Most physical least punishment
SPL
EPL
Bundesliga
La Liga
Seria a
Least physical most punishment.

I think the best refereeing is somewhere between the extremes, like the Bundeliga or the Dutch league even.

the interpretation criteria become a big factor when it's about judging an aerial contact or a shoulder to shoulder contact... or in many other cases. but when a player slides hitting his opponent and doesn't hit the ball first (another fifa rule) then a foul occurred. that's it.

You are attempting to dictate/state exactly where the interpretation is. But reality says that this is not the case. It is of no consequence what the FIFA rules say, everything is in how they are applied and the application of the rules is vastly different in the differing leagues. You are trying to say it should just be in a should to should challenge or in an aerial ball. But we know this is simply not the case.

We know that the rule ARE completely different and the outcomes completely different for almost all challenges in the differing leagues.

This is completely wrong of course but it is a fact.

I have seen played get hammered in the penalty area in Scotland and the SPL and the ref give nothing at all and you hear the commentator say no pen. If it was in seria a it would have been a penalty straight away and the guy would have been sent off with a straight red.

In the Man Utd Chelsea game J Cole had contact in the box with Evra. No pen was given, no real appeal for a penalty and the commentators say no pen.

Then at half time they ask Gullit, who has played a lot of football in less physical leagues,…all the games for Milan etc

He says it is a definite penalty, former player in the studio who has only played in the EPL say no penalty…

The difference here is massive and it had nothing to do with the shoulder or an aerial ball, but in contact and how much contact and did it constitute a foul etc.

of course our refs schools are pretty different, and this coz of our different interpretation criteria, but in this peculiar case, there's no room for interpretation.
afterall as i said, spalletti himself admitted cicinho made a foul, so...

You say there is no room for interpretation, but I am telling you for a fact that a penalty would NOT have been given for that in the English league or in the Bundesliga or the SPL so of course interpretation is involved. You cannot say interpretation is not involved if no penalty would have been given by half the leagues and refs in Europe….that is nonsense.

You might feel that it should be a penalty, that the interpretation is correct and that seria a has it right. All of that is fine and is opinion related. But you cannot possible say that it cannot be interpreted differently when it would be in other leagues.

To say so would be like saying your house cannot be on fire when it is burning.

anyway mate, talking about our refs schools, it's true our interpretation criteria are usually quite different...
in the end it's all about point of views. english say our refs stop the game too often breaking the flow of the plays...while italians say that british refs are too permissive and leave the players beating themselves continuously, which could make harder playing a technical football.
as for me, i prefere the british school

This is my point that the schools of thought and interpretation differ so much.

I think that perhaps the EPL is still a little too physical and think that maybe the Bundesliga and Dutch league has got it a right. Those leagues protect players a little more and without giving away what I see as soft fouls for questionable contact.

I am not right…I am not saying that my interpretation is best or correct or anything…

I am just saying what my opinion is and also saying that the difference in the refereeing, what is given, what is not etc is huge.

I have grown up watching the EPL and before the EPL watching the old first divison English football before the Champions League existed. The league is less physical now than it used to be. In the 1970s English football was far too physical and offered little protection to quality players. Lots of fouls and dirty challenges and you had to get hammered to win a foul, a penalty or for a card to be given. Some people in England of an older generation think back on this time with nostalgia. I think it was terrible refereeing and it is far better that it is now offers more protection and the refs are harsher, I think they could be a little more harsh still like the Bundesliga. But I think seia a is too far the other way and offer too much protection and I think this is greatly taken advantage of by divers and clever players who know when to simulate…

Again all just my opinion and any other opinion has equal weight….I hope you understand where I am coming from with this?

gotta go now, thanks for sharing your views about roma-juve, vanzandt. i recorded the match but i don't know if i'll be able to watch it before wednesday (when serie a will be back again), so reading your thoughts about the game was really intersting

Watch the game if you can, the first half in particular was superb.

I have a lot to learn about Italian football and it is possible that I will always differ in opinions on a cultural level…in that certain schools of thought may always be different. But I will enjoy watching the game and I freely admit I have a lot to pick up on in watching your game.

It is very hard to follow my team, watch the EPL, seria, La Liga, the Bundesliga and bits and bobs from Holland, Portugal Brazil, Argentina etc and the international game.

I will get into BIG trouble with my girlfriend watching so much and there is so little time to fit it all in….

Thankfully I d not watch any other type of sport.

 

[juveboy]

Re: Serie A Thread

juveboy, don, where are u?

Here I am


I think the 2-2 is a great result considering Roma should have smacked us.

The result covers up our cracks though, where is our 'spirito Juve'...they died when Vialli, Deschamps, Ravenelli, Montero, Di Livio, Ferrara, Pessotto left us :lol:

We are really going to struggle to get to 4th place. Our defence is a shambles right now. Andrade will be out for over 6 months... very bad news, I am deeply concerned. Criscito is good but he showed his inexperience on Sunday against Totti but he will learn in time.

I was critical of the Iaquinta signing, but I was very impressed with him. He worked extremely hard, he provided more mobility to the attack, provided a great cross for Trezeguet's goal, and then scored one of his own. On that form he is more than worth a place in the line-up.

On the game as a whole again we can thank Gigi Buffon. No other player in the world can match his levels of performance. I feel a big part of the problem with the defending is the midfield. Roma's players had too much space to work in between the defence and midfield, and that was part of the problem of selecting a 4-3-3. Nedved isn't a defensive player, and as a result, with Roma playing 5 in midfield there was too much room for their runners.


Del Piero just has no luck atm, he will turn things around, but its good to see Paladino get a few mins, he had fire in his belly & I hope to see more of him.

About Roma, they will not win the Scudetto if they do not have the character to win games when they settle for 2-1 when they should be winning 6-1.

Forza Juve

 

[vanzandt]

Re: Serie A Thread

Juveboy....just to say I agree with everything you have just said and what you said about the game is exactly what I have been saying.

A big plus I ddin't mention was Iaquinta. He is an odd player really but his physicality, pace and work rate make him a lot better than people might think.

 

[lo zio]

Re: Serie A Thread

My comment is based on what I saw across the 90mins nothing more nothing less. It does not mean to say I have to be right or my interpretation is the only interpretation, but I do honestly feel that highlights do not give you an accurate idea of the ebb and flow of the game and where the plaudits and responsibilities etc lie.

I have a lot to learn about Italian football and it is possible that I will always differ in opinions on a cultural level…in that certain schools of thought may always be different. But I will enjoy watching the game and I freely admit I have a lot to pick up on in watching your game.

why are u defending yourself mate, i wasn't sarcastic. i'm really thankful for telling me what really happened on the pitch! as u correctly pointed out, watching the highlights, most of the time u don't get a clear vision of the match, and i was waiting for someone who watch the whole match to tell me what really happened.
i'm intersted in reading your thooughts, mate, no matter if we disagree sometimes..... and no matter hom much u know italian football. i don't care about it. if i would care about this forum population's football knowledge, then i wouldn't come here at all. i've got plenty of friends who know football probably better than me, and i actually love to conversate with them.

but i didn't came in this forum to increase my football knowledge. i've always been intersted in reading about other countries people thoughts. i like to read foreign newspapers, when i have the time...... but talking about football is different. football newspapers are shit almost everywhere in europe. on english, german, spanish football newspapers u will find anything but football talking... anithyng but real football journalists. so i just read italian and french football newspapers usually.

then i found this forum... i came here to satisfy my pes editing needs at first.... but later i realized this forum was really variegated.... there are some guys who know football, some guys who think they know football, and then some guys who just have no idea what football is about.
it was the perfect place for me to see what english guys really think about italian, german, french football and satisfy my anthropological curiosity about other conutries people's opinions :mrgreen:

later i also realized there is much more in this forum.... there's a nice german community, a french community, guys from belgium, netherlands, argentina, brazil. This raised my interest for this forum even more.
i also had the chance to know some people who have an encyclopedic knowledge of football, some people who knows football much more than me, and reading their post i had the chance to increase my own knowledge. this was a nice unexpected surprise, but increasing my football knowledge wasn't the real reason why i came here in first time. i came here to read about the english point of view about football (bypassing the english newspapers).
so Vanzandt, don't apologize anymore for your italian football knowledge. i don't care about it. i just care about reading your opinions.


talking about the ref conversation, i think we're heading to a cul de sac, so maybe it's better to cut it here. i just like to say one last thing before moving on. I have a book with all the fifa rules board (or fifa rules commitee, i can't remember the english name) directives issued in the past (till 2 years ago).
now the directives are different from the rules. rules can be interpretated.... actually they must be interpretated. directives instead are issued when the common interpretation of a rule becomes distorted. Then, a directive is issued to clarify and to establish wich is the real interpretation of that rule.
that's the reason why i said that in this case, there's no room for interpretation.
u correctly point out that in england this fouls aren't sanctioned, and that's right. but this is not because english refs give a "different interpretation".... it's because english refs force the rules, giving an interpretation when they shouldn't.
they don't interpretate... they commit a mistake. fifa issued directives just to disallow our refs to interpretate the rules differently. we could say that the relationship between fifa rules and directives is the same relationship ther is between laws and sentences. a law is general, universal and has to be interpretated; a sentence is peculiar, specific and can't be interpretated... it just has to be applied.
now we might disagree with the fifa directives... we might prefere our refs point of views (and i actually do, most of the times), but this doesn't mean they are doing the right thing.

just to make an example: 5 years ago, fifa rules board issued a directive, establishing that "every time a player pulls another player's shirt in the box, a penalty must be given, no matter how strong the pulling is".
now, our refs (in italuy, england, spain, france, germany.. everywhere) are always violating this directive, because they think that otherwise there would be 10, 15 penalties for each match.
now i absolutely agree with our refs, and i'm glad they're violanting this directive.... but i know what a directive is and i can't say they are interpretating a rule.
i hope u got what i mean now

But I think seia a is too far the other way and offer too much protection and I think this is greatly taken advantage of by divers and clever players who know when to simulate…

i absolutely agree with u mate

It is very hard to follow my team, watch the EPL, seria, La Liga, the Bundesliga and bits and bobs from Holland, Portugal Brazil, Argentina etc and the international game.

i know what u mean mate. for me too it was pretty hard till last year.
i graduated last year and i will have to wait still 1 year before doing the abilitation exam (to really become a lawyer). until then i have some limits: i can't take care of too many trials in the same time, i can't go to the court more than 3 times per week and i can go to the firm more than 4 afternoons per week. so as u will easily undestand i've got a lot of fre time (much more than i would :roll. i thought from this summer on, i would have been busier, but actually i'm not, and they told me it will go on this way till next september.
well, at least i can enjoy la dolce vita with my friends and my girl..... and football of course.
i have a dvd recorder with a hell of an hard disk and during the week end i record all those matches i'd like to see during the week. but of course i can't watch them all, and, even if my girl loves football, we can't stay at home every evening, watching tv (we live in italy, damn it! \\:o/).
so it happens quite often i can't see all the matches i recorded.



@ juveboy: hey mate, do u remember what i told u last week about roma-juve??? :mrgreen:
i should really start betting, damn it! :8):


@ PLF: mate i hope u didn't watch the derby, as it was a real shame. i never saw sampdoria and genoa playing so bad. i watched it with some friends.... but when the first half ended we decided to turn off the tv and go out, as it was really awful.



EDIT:

I can’t understand why at this time of year that this game is not played in the evening.

yep, that's a good question... and now we know the answer.
the first serie a week this year, it was almost impossible to play football... every coach an chairman complained about the temperature, and made the same question u're doing.
then when the Lega Calcio president was asked about it, he said that our league sold tv rights to many television companies (obviously).
now, those contracts provide a clause wich establishes that those tv companies have to be able to broadcast the highlights of all the matches (except the only match we can play on sunday evening), before sunday 8:00 p.m.
he said "without that clause the value of our league would have been lower, of course... they (our chairmen) knew it when they signed that contract, so what are they complaining for now?"
so as u can see it's all about money

 

[Dominic]

Re: Serie A Thread

Just a few comments on the game from me, kinda busy lately.

Roma should've destroyed Juventus. It's exactly this kind of lacklustre approach, that could cost Roma their title hopes. If the roles were reversed, juve would never had allowed Roma to get away with a result.

Anyway, I thought Ranieri's set-up was perfect. It might not have worked out perfectly, due to numerous reasons; Nedved could not impose himself, DP was poor, back 4 still doesn't look good and Nocerino let Zanetti(thank god for Zanetti!) do way too much work. The thought behind the formation was good though. No Camo or Marchionni; no right wing. Tiago and Almiron have been dissapointing so far. Ranieri adjudged the team to have no hope of controlling the game anyway, so Ranieri decided to field another destroyer in the form of Nocerino next to Zanetti. To galvanise the squad and also hit Roma on the counter and the turnover-phase ( which aren't exactly Roma's stronger points), Ranieri correctly fielded Iaquinta(who was great and is a perfect counter-attack player) next to Trez, with Del Piero behind them ( who sadly looked out of shape, slow in his decisions and generally just hogged the ball; things would have been much more dangerous had he played well).

You can't blame Ranieri for tinkering, when so many crucial injuries occur.

I'm very happy with the 2-2 result, as Roma should've walked away with a clear win. Having said that, There were hints of a foul and offside at Totti's first goal.



p.s. Appiah ?!?! :lol:

 

[vanzandt]

Re: Serie A Thread

I feel a big part of the problem with the defending is the midfield. Roma's players had too much space to work in between the defence and midfield, and that was part of the problem of selecting a 4-3-3. Nedved isn't a defensive player, and as a result, with Roma playing 5 in midfield there was too much room for their runners.

This above is what I agreed with most, it is what I was saying to Lo Zio, it was my main point.

Roma should've destroyed Juventus. It's exactly this kind of lacklustre approach, that could cost Roma their title hopes. If the roles were reversed, juve would never had allowed Roma to get away with a result.
:

Spot on, I can’t see how Juve or Milan or Inter etc would have allowed that to happen and it is something that Roma will have to guard against.

I'm very happy with the 2-2 result, as Roma should've walked away with a clear win.
:

Very understandable to be happy, you should be, but like you said earlier it does paper over the cracks and I guess you must hope to be better when players return from injury and Del Piero finds form.

You can't blame Ranieri for tinkering, when so many crucial injuries occur.
:

For tinkering in this context no I agree. My reference is to his days at Chelsea (he had the nickname the tinkerman at Chelsea) and to what I think he may cost you.

Whilst tinkering was unavoidable in this context as you correctly point out, I do feel the formation was a mistake, precisely because you had the players out that you did. I don’t think the formation worked and I think he should have realized the problem with this formation with this set of players against this particular team. It seemed obvious to me that you would lose the midfield battle against Roma and that would spell trouble.

Anyway, I thought Ranieri's set-up was perfect. It might not have worked out perfectly, due to numerous reasons;
:

I think that is a massive understatement.

Nedved could not impose himself, DP was poor,
:

But do you not think that the very nature of Pavel and the lack of bodies in midfield able to staunch the control that Roma had was an accident waiting to happen?

I felt that there was never any way that those players could carry out that formation and compete effectively with Roma.

It is easy to use hindsight and for us to say the formation worked when we look at the result. But like you have already acknowledged Roma could have and should have scored a lot more (I think you said 6 goals).

I don’t think we can give the formation or the players in it credit for 2-2, I think we have to say that 2-2 is an amazing result to get away with. But we have to say that it was due to Roma’s failings in terms of taking chances and in trying to settle for the 2-1.

back 4 still doesn't look good and Nocerino let Zanetti(thank god for Zanetti!) do way too much work.
:

Zanetti was brilliant for me. Nocerino was apparently knocked unconscious in mid week, not sure he was necessarily that able to play. The back four didn’t look good and will probably be more key and problematic than midfield, but like you said earlier the problem in this one game was the midfiled not protecting the back four and Zanetti being left to do too much work….we have agreed on all this and have repeated each other…very much so.

The thought behind the formation was good though. No Camo or Marchionni; no right wing. Tiago and Almiron have been dissapointing so far. Ranieri adjudged the team to have no hope of controlling the game anyway, so Ranieri decided to field another destroyer in the form of Nocerino next to Zanetti. To galvanise the squad and also hit Roma on the counter and the turnover-phase
:

Whether the logic on paper was good or not is debatable, but I won’t argue either way. What I will say was that in practice the formation absolutely failed. Had Roma not been so wasteful and not took their foot off the pedal then Juve would have been battered as you yourself said.

Ranieri correctly fielded Iaquinta(who was great and is a perfect counter-attack player) next to Trez, with Del Piero behind them ( who sadly looked out of shape, slow in his decisions and generally just hogged the ball; things would have been much more dangerous had he played well).
:

Iaquinta played very well and the decision to play bt Ranieri was spot on. Del Piero being off form is not something that can be helped.

p.s. Appiah ?!?! :lol:

I do not know your club like you do (stating the obvious) so perhaps his performances at Juventus were not as good as his general performaces have been elsewhere. If I have therefore said something that seemed daft then I hold my hands up.

I did not so much mean needing Appiah anyway, my comment was more in terms of how much I felt you could have done with a box to box player who could have offered more in the way of defensive duties than the likes of Pavel…but who could also have got forward when required. Obviously Pavel’s talent is in a forward direction and his age prevents him from getting back so much.


Lio Zio

You know the whole issue of interpretation. It is being misinterpreted Haha.

My point is not about the rules or what they should be.

My point is purely that what is GIVEN as a penalty or a foul or a card etc differs enormously between the leagues and that is not in doubt.

Obviously there are differing definitions and uses of a differing words in different languages. I was not trying to say that the rules should be allowed to be seen in different way. I was just saying that the rules are irrelevant in a way.

I know that might sound odd saying the rules are irrelevant. What I mean by that is that a rule if not observed is of no consequence when it comes to the reality. It is what is given, what is punished what is not etc. The rules are not the same in the differing leagues, whether they are supposed to be the same or not.

You can have the same rules written down on paper but if they are not acted upon in one country or acted upon differently in another country effectively the words are meaningless.

Actions speak louder than words.

So the word interpretation which has been a bone of contention and which might be a slight error of communication due to differing definitions in our respective languages is not really the issue anyway.

It is what is acted upon that is key.

Pavel would not have got a penalty for that challenge in the EPL or the Bundesliga. Maybe that is right by the rules maybe that is wrong according to the rules….irrespective it is the fact of the matter.

I am not saying that what you have said which is sufficiently different than what I am saying is wrong, we are talking at crossed purposes and can in fact be both correct here.

P.S

Thanks for explaining the reason for the day time fixtures thing...money hey, I guess that makes sense in its own way.

I wasn’t being defensive on my opinions, I was just being open and truthful….but thank you for the kind words anyway. I do not pretend to know a 10th of what you guys know about seria a, I just hope to enjoy it and hope to enjoy conversations and the exchange of opinions and hope I am not seen as some daft English bloke who is trying to tell you about your own game...certainly I am not wanting to do that, just enjoy the deabte and thoughts.

 

[Stringer Bell]

Re: Serie A Thread

Dammmmnnn! Some long ass post in here.

 

[dutty_nose111]

Re: Serie A Thread

OK, I have managed to find some time between work, socialising and Fifa 08, to post my views on the Serie A round just gone

First things first, Milan. Another disappointing performance from the Rossoneri. The goal, in my opinion, has some fortune in it - although Seedor's positioning was good. Parma were clearly intimidated in the first half, hence the lack of real threat. However, when they treated Milan with no respect - like most Serie A teams, and unlike most European teams - they hammered the so called Title contenders to the point where they could have won. The way Reginaldo beat Nesta to set up the Parma goal was magnificent, and Parma could have added to their tally, but sadly they didn't. I think there was a clear dip in performance from Pirlo and Kaka. Kaka has not been his best enough this year, but as is his quality he still plays well, and that has been a main contributor to Milan's sluggish start. If Kaka can't play well, and the strikers are misfiring, the whole point of the 4-3-2-1 that Ancelotti is presently being forced to play is that Milan can counter using Pirlo's ridiculously brilliant passing, Seedorf's intelligence, Kaka's pace and the striker's scoring abiltiy. Take one of those components - and against Parma on the weekend 3 (Pirlo, Kaka and striker)- away and Milan will struggle. They probably won't concede, but they won't score and will therefore draw, as they have been.

You then try to understand the situation. I think it has something to do with the transfer market as well. Milan had Ronaldo injured in July, and they knew that Inzaghi couldn't play more than one match a week. So why not get a striker? Yes Pato has been bought, and well done to Milan for that, but he won't get a full run in the team for a while yet - and judging by Ancelotti's poor use of Gourcuff, it could be a while longer. Instead Milan are suffering. A horrendous Gilardino, injured Ronaldo and an in-form, yet ill-conditioned, Inzaghi. Well done there Ancelotti :roll:

Then there is the team selection. Against Parma was, in my eyes, the epitomy of Ancelotti's improvisation and general managing ability. No Gourcuff. Instead Milan sent out a defensive team and played just like one. Milan are not playing with the flair like they did at the start of this year and going towards the end of the season. Milan are not scoring due to lack of decision making from Ancelotti, as well as luck. Until this is sorted out Milan will fall further behind my beloved Roma, and Inter

Whenever I have the time I will post my thoughts on the other matches

Side note: Speaking to my friends today, I asked them did they watch the Roma - Juve match. The replies I got? "Why do you watch Italian football?" "It is so boring" "It really is, Satty "

:roll:

 

[lo zio]

Re: Serie A Thread

Side note: Speaking to my friends today, I asked them did they watch the Roma - Juve match. The replies I got? "Why do you watch Italian football?" "It is so boring" "It really is, Satty "

i can see some kind of a paradox in here... i mean if they told u this, it means that they don't like italian football.... but if they don't like it, why are they watching it?
or... if they aren't watching it, how can they say it's boring?
:lmao:

anyway Satty, many guys think they like football, but they actually don't.
and the most ironic thing is that they won't ever realize they don't really like football, coz they don't know football.
they think football lies just in cristiano ronaldo's dribblings, in kaka's accelerations, in ronaldinho no look passes, in juninho free kicks.
they think football is all about 10 guys running like mad for 90 minutes..... no surprise if when they watch some real football, they think it's boring.

usually theese guys are the same guys who think that pace is most important factor in football, who think that ball possession means always quality football, who think that premiership football is faster than serie a football...
usually theese guys are the same guys who, when asked about "who is the best football player", reply "c. ronaldo!" or "kaka!" or "ronaldinho!" or "messi!"......(they probably think that the only role in football is the advanced midfielder\wing role.... they probably don't consider cbs as football players :mrgreen.
usually theese guys don't play football..... or maybe they play football, but they think it's impossible to play football without the last nike mercurial vapor model :mrgreen:

but there's nothing weird, afterall. that's our generation. we are the britney spears generation, the paris hilton generation, the big brother generation. our favourites writers are ken follett or dan brown, our favourites musicians are those who don't play neither write their own songs (which actually are't really "their" songs)...
i could continue for days... but i guess i already made myself clear

closing the off topic and moving to more intersting things, your report about Milan - Parma is absolutely perfect. i watched the match and i had your same feelings.
i think milan relies to much on his stars individual efforts at the moment. their players aren't playing together, and u won't go anywhere playing this way in serie a. Even the weakests sides in serie a still play football (unlike in some others leagues :roll.
i just disagree with u about ancelotti's responsabilities. i don't think there's much he can do if his players are getting to lazy to play football together. he can't even do some serious rotations as he hasn't a deep roster (but i absolutely agree with u about gourcouff!!!!!). i'd say the real responsibles are just the players.

kaka can't unleash is awesome progression and acceleration, because he needs space.... and in serie a your opponents won't concede u those spaces. seedorf has been a little to inconsistant in the past few seasons. he alternate some awesome performances, to some really poor and lazy performances.
and finally they really need a reliable foward (i agree with u about milan's mistakes in this transfer market).

i'd say that what's happening in milan is quite similar to what's happening to lazio; the players aren't following their coach anymore.

anyway we also have to give some credit to parma. di carlo is really showing some abilities. he lined up a smart parma. his players waited for the right moment to start pushing and they played as a team, with some good positions switchings and a wise ball distribution.
pisano and reginaldo seems to be a nice couple. they complete each others wery well.

parma is not a bad team at all. they have very balanced roster, with some old wise and experienced players (like morfeo, castellini, couto and cardone) and some really intersting young talents (like parravicini, matteini, cigarini and paponi)

they can line up an experienced defence (cardone-castellini-couto-falcone), a great midfield (morrone, morfeo and parravicini can guarrantee balance and fantasy.... while dessena and cigarini are some of the most interesting young midfielders in italy.... who have been followed by many italian top clubs), and a very intersting attack (fiorentina was really silly, selling reginaldo, and paponi is by many considered as the most promising young foward in italy)... and let's not forget about guys like budan (who could guarrantee more than 10 goals per season.... but who is injured at the moment) or like gasbarroni (who can be a serious threat along the sideline).

 

[gerd]

Re: Serie A Thread

I've enjoyed the analysis without seeing the match (i very rarely see Serie A matches), you guys could become pundits...great!!!

About Italian football: it is not boring, it's maybe the most refined league in the world, both tactically and technical...even better than the Jupiler League (that last one is a joke of course, but i couldn't resist).

 

[vanzandt]

Re: Serie A Thread

Off football just for a moment.......

i can see some kind of a paradox in here... i mean if they told u this, it means that they don't like italian football.... but if they don't like it, why are they watching it?
or... if they aren't watching it, how can they say it's boring?
:lmao:

Haha

This is logic built on sand I am afraid. It sounds correct and is good semantics but it is of course completely wrong.

Plenty of people watch and do things that they do not like, call it schadenfreude or masochism…..pointlessly killing time etc…

If you are not able to say seria a is boring or the English premier league is boring….then you would not be able to say that a given film or book is boring, or a given author is boring etc.

But you can of course do exactly that.

I do not think football is boring be it seria a, the EPL, La Liga…..well ok for me almost any football Hehe

But it is a subjective issue and people can say what they like and what they feel. To try to say otherwise using flawed logic is a bit crazy….good semantics though because of the face of it what you said sounds correct when it isn’t………………………..you’ll go far as a lawyer

but there's nothing weird, afterall. that's our generation. we are the britney spears generation, the paris hilton generation, the big brother generation. our favourites writers are ken follett or dan brown, our favourites musicians are those who don't play neither write their own songs (which actually are't really "their" songs)...
i could continue for days... but i guess i already made myself clear

I really like this polemic and there is more than a grain of truth in it. But my favourite authors are Fyodor Dostoyevsky and George Orwell, my music unmarketable singer songwriters and I don’t like celebrity culture or airhead models so…..

Will you allow me on your ark or in your bunker when the apocalypse comes?

Please I am one of you \\:o/

 

[gerd]

Re: Serie A Thread

Favourite authors: John Fante, Emile Zola, Hemingway, Giancarlo de Cataldo
Favourite music: Tom Waits, Miles Davis, Pinetop Seven, Beirut and Sonic Youth.

Can i come in too???

PS: i like Palermo

 

[dutty_nose111]

Re: Serie A Thread

Favourite Authors : None
Favourite Music: Skepta, Wiley, JME, T.I. and other Rap

 

[lo zio]

Re: Serie A Thread

:lol::lol::lol:
u're having a lot of fun, making fun of me, aren't u guys?
anyway, i guess i deserved it.
afterall i just wrote a bunch of platitudes :mrgreen:

btw, i'm sorry guys, but in my bunker there is sleeping accomodation for just 2 persons..... one it's for me and the other one has already been booked by britney spears (u can call it masochism, Vanzandt :lol , so.... say hello to Dostoevskij and zolà guys :mrgreen:
:lol:

p.s. nice post, Vanzandt :lol:

getting back to football, i'm quite worried about tonite. milan has been criticised by everybody for the last 2 weeks, and i've got the feeling they'll be really focused this evening against palermo
it would have been better facing them 2 weeks ago.
a 1-1 would be really nice

 

[gerd]

Re: Serie A Thread

Hope Palermo wins lo zio.
Can you give me an idea about their starting eleven????

 

[wiper]

Re: Serie A Thread

Just Hope Adriano will score tonight against Doria...and hope Inter to make a decent match, we need it.

 

[lo zio]

Re: Serie A Thread

Hope Palermo wins lo zio.
Can you give me an idea about their starting eleven????

well we lost our left backs... both of them (pisano and capuano)
so i guess colantuono will place diana on the left and zaccardo on the right.
zaccardo was pretty good sunday. his "side mate" was caserta, who played on the right side of the midfield. actually caserta is a central midfielder, but he often cut in the centre leaving the side to zaccardo (who pushed a lot against cagliari).

on the left, in the midfield line, migliaccio should play. migliaccio too is a central midfielder, but diana (who usually plays there) will be our left back, so...
the couple of central midfielders should be simplicio and bresciano, with bresciano playing 15 meters ahead of simplicio, as advanced midfielder. Guana had some injury problems last week so it should be on the bench.
our 2 cbs will be barzagli and rinaudo and upfront, of course, miccoli and amauri.

this should be our starting 11.... but i'm not sure... we're facing many injury problems and, as u can see a lot of players should play off role. moreover theese guys already played sunday, so they should be quite tired.... maybe colantuono will try some rotations (cavani and guana in the starting 11?).
anyway with this formation it won't be easy to face an angry milan

we're doing well at the moment, but it's all because of the quality of our players..... talking about tactic.... well, as i wrote days ago, it will take time to see palermo playing colantuono's football..... meanwhile our football has not a "plot", a "fil rouge", and that's quite disappointing, of course.

 

[dutty_nose111]

Re: Serie A Thread

:lol::lol::lol:

getting back to football, i'm quite worried about tonite. milan has been criticised by everybody for the last 2 weeks, and i've got the feeling they'll be really focused this evening against palermo
it would have been better facing them 2 weeks ago.
a 1-1 would be really nice

Think about it though Ben. Milan have been under incredible pressure for a couple of weeks now, have they performed? I really can't wait until tonight, even if Roma lose then we know the match will be terrific. Roma-Fiorentina, it can't be much better can it?

I think tonight can be a wonderful show of football. Milan vs Palermo. Fiorentina vs Roma and Inter vs Sampdoria. To be honest, I think when Inter are pushed hard the matches are entertaining - just look at the match against Livorno However, when they are not challenged the matches are pretty much typical Inter Milan. Grinding out results in an unspectacular, yet respectable, fashion.

Fiorentina - Roma in my eyes can be brilliant. I think if both teams played to their best then this can and will be the match of the season. Roma, sadly, are missing Totti and Perrotta, so it will be interesting to watch Giuly and Vucinic. Giuly has slotted in magnificently and has been a joy to watch in Serie A. His pace, touch and dribbling have been great to watch for Roma fans and horrible for Roma's opponents

I love watching Fiorentina. The way they counter attack is very similar to the way Man Utd counter attacked last season. They are so fluid and wonderful to watch it makes you want to stand up and applaud them. If Fiorentina are at their best tonight I will be terrified, yet I know I will love watching it

 

[lo zio]

Re: Serie A Thread

Think about it though Ben. Milan have been under incredible pressure for a couple of weeks now, have they performed?

yep, that's true... but it already happened, years ago... milan came here after a bad period... they came here, waked up and smashed us.... memories hurts
moreover we sure aren't in a good shape theese days, and we're still far from playing our best football, so..... :roll:

fiorentina-roma could be a very beautiful match. roma is having 2 tremendous weeks juve-fiorentina-inter-man utd...quite scaring :shock: it will be a real test for roma.

talking about fiorentina, i just hope pazzini will play upfront and not vieri :roll:

when Inter are pushed hard the matches are entertaining - just look at the match against Livorno However, when they are not challenged the matches are pretty much typical Inter Milan. Grinding out results in an unspectacular, yet respectable, fashion.

yep, u're right, but it won't be easy against samp. they were awful last week against genoa and they will play at their best level to let their fans get over the derby performance.

 

[vanzandt]

Re: Serie A Thread

Where is it posible to see midweek seria a games?

(apart from in Italy in case any cheeky chappy replies

I am stuck with Hull Chelsea by the look of things...

Doesn't look like Sky Sports or Setanta will let me watch Everton or seria a.....

 

[dutty_nose111]

Re: Serie A Thread

I use internet streams, or just download the match after

 

[vanzandt]

Re: Serie A Thread

With my internet connection I would be better trying to look down the toilet to see if there was any football being played down there rather than try to get a stream to work.....guess I will have to try and catch highlights at a later date..

 

[CBG]

Re: Serie A Thread

Good wins for Napoli, Lazio and Genoa (Borriello scoring a hattrick) tonight. Palermo sneaked a last gasp victory at home to Milan 2-1