Rematch - New Football Game

kamy100 said:
Slocap the studio that made SIFU announced last night that their next game will be a fooball game, it is a five a side online multiplayer game:
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Well. I can say is at least a good developer is wanting to enter the football market. Reminds me of Rocket League and is obviously arcade style. It's unique, I applaud that, as no ne wants another FUT lite.
 
You guys seen this? VR game with EPL attached. I was wondering why this type of game wasn't made before. As I've always thought done right and in 1st person view, this could be very immersive.

That idea to recreate the actions and movements of a goal is a great use of the EPL license.

 
So where is now everyone that was arguing with me about the exclusive deal of EPL with EA? I've said EPL can give the rights to any company for a football videogame and they were also in talks with 2K.
 
fear said:
So where is now everyone that was arguing with me about the exclusive deal of EPL with EA? I've said EPL can give the rights to any company for a football videogame and they were also in talks with 2K.
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Not for a simulation football game which this is not (it is considered Virtual Reality training). And no as much as you want to be an "insider" the Premier League can't give the rights to anyone for a football simulation game and no 2K won't get the rights to a football simulation game since those are exclusive to EA and would need EA to say yes to it like they did with Football Manager which was confirmed by Miles himself.

Factor in to that how long EA and the Premier league have been working together and how many community projects next to the game they have together and it is very clear that the license going to another simulation game without EA saying yes to it is very unrealistic.

It is the same as the NFL license. You see in the market virtual reality games with the NFL license and even Arcade style Mobile Games with it. But you won't see a console and PC American Football game with the NFL license because EA holds the rights. It is actually not that hard to understand ;)

Can the Premier League and NFL be licensed to games? Yes. But only to those who aren't seen to be in the same field as Madden or Fifa.
 
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Oh goody, another online GAAS football game, We're so desperate for one because they don't seem to exist....

At this point, it just seems to be easier for devs to make an arcade style football game without the burden of the complexities of developing a simulator. But at the same time, there's enough of them out now that I wonder, why join an already saturated market?

It's not just football games, Look at the F2P games on the PS Store or Marketplace, Google Play etc. There's an abundance of low effort shooters that are so derivative that if it reminds you of COD, Fortnite and Apex, why not just play those that already do it better?
 
Jay-Jay 10 said:
Not for a simulation football game which this is not (it is considered Virtual Reality training). And no as much as you want to be an "insider" the Premier League can't give the rights to anyone for a football simulation game and no 2K won't get the rights to a football simulation game since those are exclusive to EA and would need EA to say yes to it like they did with Football Manager which was confirmed by Miles himself.

Factor in to that how long EA and the Premier league have been working together and how many community projects next to the game they have together and it is very clear that the license going to another simulation game without EA saying yes to it is very unrealistic.

It is the same as the NFL license. You see in the market virtual reality games with the NFL license and even Arcade style Mobile Games with it. But you won't see a console and PC American Football game with the NFL license because EA holds the rights. It is actually not that hard to understand ;)

Can the Premier League and NFL be licensed to games? Yes. But only to those who aren't seen to be in the same field as Madden or Fifa.
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I get what you're saying but I know that EPL has the right to negotiate any deal despite the EA exclusivity. It's in their discretion to sign new deals or terminate existing ones. And yes this comes from inside information.
 
Marlon Anthony said:
Oh goody, another online GAAS football game, We're so desperate for one because they don't seem to exist....

At this point, it just seems to be easier for devs to make an arcade style football game without the burden of the complexities of developing a simulator. But at the same time, there's enough of them out now that I wonder, why join an already saturated market?

It's not just football games, Look at the F2P games on the PS Store or Marketplace, Google Play etc. There's an abundance of low effort shooters that are so derivative that if it reminds you of COD, Fortnite and Apex, why not just play those that already do it better?
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Tbf as long as EA and KONAMI continue to provide abysmal products, smaller devs will try to fill the gap just to make quick money. Don't you find it bizarre other big companies don't step up to create a proper videogame of the most popular sport in the world? 2K even resurrected a tennis game throwing in some relatively big money. Right now basketball and baseball have the best sports videogames out there and football is completely ommited. I find it rather strange because the market is there even for an average/decent effort to create one.
 
fear said:
Tbf as long as EA and KONAMI continue to provide abysmal products, smaller devs will try to fill the gap just to make quick money. Don't you find it bizarre other big companies don't step up to create a proper videogame of the most popular sport in the world? 2K even resurrected a tennis game throwing in some relatively big money. Right now basketball and baseball have the best sports videogames out there and football is completely ommited. I find it rather strange because the market is there even for an average/decent effort to create one.
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I do find it strange that with the knowledge and technology available there isn't more or at least the 2 big dogs don't have the definitive football game products out there, they nailed it in the past with less advance technology but seemingly regressed to making arcade style experiences themselves.

Think 10 eyars ago, their games were realistic AND still made tons of money though MTX, Players loved these games but now devs are afraid of losing revenue if new players find them too hard or challenging, so they design them so any one can pick them up and score tons of goals with no learning curve which diminishes the overall integrity of the games.
 
Back then on the PS2 it was much cheaper to programme a football game or games in general. We're talking about a football game that should be on a good PES level in terms of gameplay. I think it's difficult to programme a good match engine (Gameplay AI for online and offline), if bought in, a good football game -> collision detection etc.. I'm not even talking about the overpriced licences. Even on the PS3 (HD games) there were almost no football games apart from PES and FIFA, and when there were, they were of poor quality.

It requires a lot of money for initial development, licences and then there is the greedy management and shareholders.
 
fear said:
I get what you're saying but I know that EPL has the right to negotiate any deal despite the EA exclusivity. It's in their discretion to sign new deals or terminate existing ones. And yes this comes from inside information.
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Guess we just have to believe you. ;)

My bet is we won't see the Premier League with another company's football simulation game.

Of course I don't have the inside information you have, but I am pretty sure they won't change from a company they are working with since the 90s and have so many community projects for grassroots football with to another one.

But as you say it's bizarre that no big company creates a game for the biggest sport in the world. If only there would be a reason like maybe they realize they can't get the licenses they would need to compete.

Also the best basketball game? Maybe watch Softdrink TVs video how broken MyNBA is.
2K is also having a lot of issues with their franchise mode and are degrading in quality.
 
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Jay-Jay 10 said:
Guess we just have to believe you. ;)

My bet is we won't see the Premier League with another company's football simulation game.

Of course I don't have the inside information you have, but I am pretty sure they won't change from a company they are working with since the 90s and have so many community projects for grassroots football with to another one.

But as you say it's bizarre that no big company creates a game for the biggest sport in the world. If only there would be a reason like maybe they realize they can't get the licenses they would need to compete.

Also the best basketball game? Maybe watch Softdrink TVs video how broken MyNBA is.
2K is also having a lot of issues with their franchise mode and are degrading in quality.
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Yeah whatever. NBA 2k25 is the best basketball sim ever imo if you want to play offline. Everything's so customizable and MyNBA also. Ofc there are still flaws but MyNBA is one of the most engaging franchises ever, idk what this guy is talking about.
If you think FIFA or EA FC is based on sim grounds I have 2 fields to sell you in the moon and a castle in Mars.
EPL will give the licence to everyone that will splash the cash on or under the table.
 
fear said:
Yeah whatever. NBA 2k25 is the best basketball sim ever imo if you want to play offline. Everything's so customizable and MyNBA also. Ofc there are still flaws but MyNBA is one of the most engaging franchises ever, idk what this guy is talking about.
If you think FIFA or EA FC is based on sim grounds I have 2 fields to sell you in the moon and a castle in Mars.
EPL will give the licence to everyone that will splash the cash on or under the table.
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Yeah whatever was exactly the answer I was expecting 🤣 I somehow trust Miles and what he said more in his interview than your inside information.

And MyNBA is broken after 2-3 seasons ;) which was my point. Just watch the video and what he shows regarding Team Ratings. 2K is degrading and becoming worse and worse regarding sports games. Right now I think the best sports gaming experiences are probably The Show and College Football
 
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There's also a limit in devs creativity, and limits of what they can reproduce with "only" a controller with 10 buttons and two analog sticks (or a Wheel+pedals).
I mean it's become harder and harder to more you're advancing to get better, and reaching the reality in terms of gameplay. I don't see something, gameplay talking, that could be totally different and better than what we already played since 2014-2015 (not talking about taste but inputs, animations, and reaching the reality : i truely believe they reached their limits... Even Rockstar and Hideo Kojima can't and won't found a gaming revolution).

Basketball games reached his peak on i don't know which 2k versions and producers find hard to do something better and different.
It's the same for football, even if a newcomer buy, for example, Konami or EA FC engines and try to reproduce a sim game with all the tools they did, all you will see as a difference will be a "back to basics" in terms of playability and a better balance. But i believe that they already did all it was possible to consolidate both gaming and reality, and what we may got on the pitch will be no way different than what was on PS4.

It's the same for tons of styles, they reached their limits with what they could do with a video game on the PS4 gen, now all they can mod is improving the Artistic Direction, micro details, some stuffs like Ray-tracing, FPS and Resolution.

Nothing related to gameplay but all about the visuals. And i sort of understand them, as it's the same stuff since in the 70's arcade : - a controller and a machine plugged on a screen. I don't want this to change, just perfecting some animation and graphics core engine, get an higher resolution and more FPS.
I really don't see what they can do more in terms of gameplay, except improving what they already have but creating new system, no.
 
NeoRetro said:
There's also a limit in devs creativity, and limits of what they can reproduce with "only" a controller with 10 buttons and two analog sticks (or a Wheel+pedals).
I mean it's become harder and harder to more you're advancing to get better, and reaching the reality in terms of gameplay. I don't see something, gameplay talking, that could be totally different and better than what we already played since 2014-2015 (not talking about taste but inputs, animations, and reaching the reality : i truely believe they reached their limits... Even Rockstar and Hideo Kojima can't and won't found a gaming revolution).

Basketball games reached his peak on i don't know which 2k versions and producers find hard to do something better and different.
It's the same for football, even if a newcomer buy, for example, Konami or EA FC engines and try to reproduce a sim game with all the tools they did, all you will see as a difference will be a "back to basics" in terms of playability and a better balance. But i believe that they already did all it was possible to consolidate both gaming and reality, and what we may got on the pitch will be no way different than what was on PS4.

It's the same for tons of styles, they reached their limits with what they could do with a video game on the PS4 gen, now all they can mod is improving the Artistic Direction, micro details, some stuffs like Ray-tracing, FPS and Resolution.

Nothing related to gameplay but all about the visuals. And i sort of understand them, as it's the same stuff since in the 70's arcade : - a controller and a machine plugged on a screen. I don't want this to change, just perfecting some animation and graphics core engine, get an higher resolution and more FPS.
I really don't see what they can do more in terms of gameplay, except improving what they already have but creating new system, no.
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I see what you're saying, but I disagree.

There are 100 ways they could improve things, but I will not go into detail on that, as pointless. They have no incentive to improve anything, as doing so will just mean creating a game that doesn't cater to the masses and they want as much profit as possible, so improving the game is nearly irrelevant. They want to do the least amount of work to create the simplest game, that anyone can pick up and play, so they can extract the most profit. Developers will never ever ever create a good football game again without a law change that shuts down FUT etc.
 
Pagi84 said:
I see what you're saying, but I disagree.

There are 100 ways they could improve things, but I will not go into detail on that, as pointless. They have no incentive to improve anything, as doing so will just mean creating a game that doesn't cater to the masses and they want as much profit as possible, so improving the game is nearly irrelevant. They want to do the least amount of work to create the simplest game, that anyone can pick up and play, so they can extract the most profit. Developers will never ever ever create a good football game again without a law that shuts down FUT etc.
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That's not really what i'm talking about but the 100 ways to improve isn't for me linked to the fact "we are in a new gen > so we will have new gen games" or whatever else. What i say is that they could improve, yes, details, but on the big lines they reached what they could do the best, while staying playable. I mean it's not really a matter of power, neither console generation.
I can't imagine at all what could be a next-gen football game. And NBA2K reached his limits potential with i don't remember which almost perfect version.

Re-balancing and improving something is not a total change, like the difference between PES old gen and what Fifa did with their engine for Fifa 10 to 14. re-creating a total next-gen experience even if they wanted isn't doable with the material they got : it's too demanding and would turn in a NASA level computer. The real new gen can't be now. And it was a point that has nothing to do with the way they completely switch direction for doing money, it's not even linked.

Just wanted to say that even if the direction would have focused on sim games, it should still be enjoyable to play and you have to feel what you're doing or it's an interractive game on CD-I. All current games are the same as what we played on PS4 regarding mecanics... Even PS3. Even Elden Ring or whatever beast with real passionate and talented devs didn't changed a lot as games from 10 years ago except bigger monsters, map etc. but mecanism are still the same thing. That's what i notice, and it's my own conclusion : it's a sort of VG crisis, and yes there's tons of way to improve games but none of them will gives us the next-gen/reality feels as long as you can move players and people like you want, simple as that.

Regarding the rest, about the gold-digging you're right and i never said the opposite, the industries have changed since probably FUT and F2P games. It's not a mystery and It's all about creating games for everyone, easier, accessible to kids aswell to guys who don't have a clue about basket or football tactics. All sports games seems to search a "new crowd" without saying it. Even FPS gets more accessible and most of them turns on mobile... And yes, all of it with a less amount of work, i agree too. It's just not what i talked about, but even if they try... TS2k25 is more or less the same as TS4. It's a PS4 game, same as PS3 with a better animation system, and all new tennis games i saw may run easily on the previous gen.
 
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NeoRetro said:
That's not really what i'm talking about but the 100 ways to improve isn't for me linked to the fact "we are in a new gen > so we will have new gen games" or whatever else. What i say is that they could improve, yes, details, but on the big lines they reached what they could do the best, while staying playable. I mean it's not really a matter of power, neither console generation.
I can't imagine at all what could be a next-gen football game. And NBA2K reached his limits potential with i don't remember which almost perfect version.

Re-balancing and improving something is not a total change, like the difference between PES old gen and what Fifa did with their engine for Fifa 10 to 14. re-creating a total next-gen experience even if they wanted isn't doable with the material they got : it's too demanding and would turn in a NASA level computer. The real new gen can't be now. And it was a point that has nothing to do with the way they completely switch direction for doing money, it's not even linked.

Just wanted to say that even if the direction would have focused on sim games, it should still be enjoyable to play and you have to feel what you're doing or it's an interractive game on CD-I. All current games are the same as what we played on PS4 regarding mecanics... Even PS3. Even Elden Ring or whatever beast with real passionate and talented devs didn't changed a lot as games from 10 years ago except bigger monsters, map etc. but mecanism are still the same thing. That's what i notice, and it's my own conclusion : it's a sort of VG crisis, and yes there's tons of way to improve games but none of them will gives us the next-gen/reality feels as long as you can move players and people like you want, simple as that.

Regarding the rest, about the gold-digging you're right and i never said the opposite, the industries have changed since probably FUT and F2P games. It's not a mystery and It's all about creating games for everyone, easier, accessible to kids aswell to guys who don't have a clue about basket or football tactics. All sports games seems to search a "new crowd" without saying it. Even FPS gets more accessible and most of them turns on mobile... And yes, all of it with a less amount of work, i agree too. It's just not what i talked about, but even if they try... TS2k25 is more or less the same as TS4. It's a PS4 game, same as PS3 with a better animation system, and all new tennis games i saw may run easily on the previous gen.
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I understand. Hmm, what is next gen gonna look like then? Interesting to ponder. Perhaps VR based? 11v11? That could feel really fresh and dare I say real. I'd love FIFA/PES, but like semi manual everything , all licences and you play as 1 guy, yourself and with the Pro cam view, so you feel like you are playing real football. You can walk off the pitch, into the changing room for a team-talk, you could feel like you're in the stadiums. As right now you don't really get to appreciate them with the camera angles most use. Then the other 21 players are also humans. Then, add in a VR World Cup, CL, EPL, VR transfer market, VR dollars to buy/sell players for your team etc. IMO done right you could really monetise that idea.
 
Yes from a lot of people VR is the future of gaming. But i'm talking to "casual" football games.
The Wii version with their Wiimote+Nunchuk permitted to move multiple player in all type. But i don't feel that as fun as a casual FG
VR "Libero Grande" a bit like the Rematch game on this thread is a total different type of game. Personally i would tolerate to play as a single player but it won't last pretty long before being bored.
What i talk is about casual Sports games in general, football as we're fan of it. It's pretty difficult to see the real next-gen of those, and also for all type of games in general.

The only thing i see (that's why i'm saying it would need a supreme overpowered PC unaffordable) would be a total detection of everything related to contact, physics, different material reproduction while there's a contact between the ball and the boots for example if your player, due to your timing, touche the ball with his flat feet at 176 degree etc. etc., it would really looks like a real match at least for the physics, now the "issue" is that we play with real human and it's impossible to reproduce players real feeling without a super advanced AI. Where far from now + the fact that the game should still playable is an all other challenge.

I pushed that example above overstating but it's my way to make it understand better "how is that possible to create something with a much bigger technology, that could implies gameplay too?", the biggest problems is that a game even for people with a big acknowledge about their favorite stuffs who wants the most perfect reproduction/simulation needs to still get funs with control and way to play (could be RPG to FPS to sports or racing), not especially with no assistance? Less okay, nothing will push everyone out from the start : feeling is perhaps the most important thing that may you like a game or not.

I think we reached certain limits in all progress for all, smartphone to cars, and it's the same for video games. They improve by baby steps, so all is practically focused on graphics and resolution + visual effects like Ray Tracing and all the rest depends to the limited creative intelligence of the devs , and created engine. Practically did all they could regarding all type of games mechanisms, and many people accept that fact and only ask for better visuals. UE5 won't change gameplay at all for example. Now i repeat : i don't talk about their intention, for that we both agree that the industries as changed, far for the better.
 
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To me at least, VR in a football game would feel overwhelming and in a way, unnecessary. 11v11 would seem like too much and detract from the ease and comfort of gaming IMO (also the strategy aspects, watching the game from a broader perspective). I like the relative straightforwardness and simplicity (which doesn't exclude depth) of controlling 1 player at a time, and let the team tactics flow from there (following your strategy, with also triggering runs, 2nd defender, and other off the ball controls present in FIFA and PES, etc).
To keep it short, I think the future of football videogaming is in the DEPTH of this already tried-and-true experience, improvements in ball physics, AI behavior, manager career depth, and perhaps most importantly (to me at least), world league representations. VR has never quite appealed to me personally (actually standing up and moving around while gaming instead of controlling skill based players isn't really my cup of tea), but aside from that, I think what developers should focus on is provide a true offline (separate from online) experience, more player personality, management details, CPU behavior, and lesser known leagues as well. My two cents. :)
 
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Yeah, VR is not that a video game experience for me. I found it cool when it's an accessory like for Racing games, but i don't want it more than visual. LIke you said, not moving etc. people plays video games because it's plug'n'play and immersive without effort. I'd rather prefers to punch a bag than play a VR games with gloves as controllers.
@millossobek says all i wanted to say : there could be little things here and there improved, not especially revamped. What we already got now but, and it's something more related to creation than console power, something more deep, where situation changes with X more factors etc.
Agree also about the World league experience, like we already said in another thread we need an international clause for it regarding exclusive licensing and price etc., of course you need the permission to use for example Djokovic as he's like a brand and it's not ethic to put anyone in your game.

Now like Chris said, devs got their hands and creativity tied due related to exclusivity and licensing, we (devs + gamers) got enough of it as it restrain way too much a game developpement and representation from everywhere. Even an awful mobile game can stole an AAA licence game, and in football it's a particularly big, big problem. You won't see some new, fresh, football passionate and talented team of devs trying to create something due to all their restrictions.
 
Yeah but developers could already create a game with highly accurate ball physics, inertia, collision detection, advanced AI etc, they don't want to and never will, that was my point. So that can't be the future of football games, as that will make less money they they make now. So it would have to be based around online play.

And where VR isn't everyone's cup of tea, isn't mine, right now. I am imagining 10 years in the future, when VR is NOT a heavy annoying headset, but a thin light device and a much more advanced and comfortable experience.

And in future you could have gameplay that has such advanced AI, that perhaps you will not even be able to detect if it is human or AI.
 
For me it's not only the bulkiness and heaviness of the headset, but the first person perspective and the physicality of moving around which isn't too appealing (instead of an open, zoomed out view). I personally prefer third person games most of the time (aside from Classic Doom and some Racing games :LOL:). Anyway, something about the TV-perspective of playing the matches appeals to me more I suppose. :)

Still, I do get your point. It's a bit sad that having the tools to do it, developers (at least Konami) won't take the route of evolving offline gaming. It's more of a wishful thinking than the actual state of affairs, IMO. In anycase, at the TOP of my wishlist for football gaming would be worldwide licensing, in that case it would truly be a global game. That would be incredible.. CPU intelligence improvements could also go a long way like you mentioned.. I guess I remain hopeful, though. :)
 
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We never said the opposite @Pagi84 , they can do what you did but we didn't say they will. For things we already talked.
It's just a "What if", but we knows that it won't happen at least now, with all the laws, pursuits, pressure and all.

You can start with joy a football game with your mind full of idea, you will quickly loose your passion when you will encounter all the devs meet from issues.
And finally, if i was them, for not throwing work and money with the trash, the only way will be to do a game with very fews teams or no teams at all like UFL.
But i'm not them, i don't have the talent for creating a football game at all but i know what to do to counter the supremacy of EA licencing : with an incredible Edit mode where you can even download kits or teams like on Tennis Elbow or boxers like in Undisputed.
 
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