PES 2018 PlayStation & Xbox Discussion Thread

ramgamer said:

just an example of the no foul being barged on in 2017 which happened more often then not, in the other game this is a clear penalty, still referee is sleeping or whstever blind here, just to say that in the beta 2018 this still happens, seriously F*** this game or the referee i don t know which one i have to say...
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seriously, i don't know what that is. He takes it of chest and just falls. Looks funny though.
 
Im almost to afraid to say that I am really hyped for this game and I'm looking really forward to this. I have been enjoying the past PES games more and more and every year seems like a bigger leap forward to me.
Took a break from PES2008 to PES2014 (Only played become a legend in some of these games) But I love the passion they give on the game nowadays. We get so much more then in the past.

But again.. im almost afraid to show my opinion here because its a huge im gonna slam you down fest over here.
 
curdstar said:
16 first-time shots in total were attempted across those four matches. That averages four per game; two per half. We are talking about first-time efforts on goal struck with the foot, from anywhere on the pitch, here. We aren't talking about bicycle kicks or heeled volleys - just a shot at goal without taking a first touch.
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And?
Just because 16 were attempted, doesn't mean a lot more couldn't have been tried. The question is, if you see every shot on goal from some distance in every video, first time or otherwise, they are mostly contained to a pretty narrow set of pre-defined outcomes - hard, straight, no dip, on target, narrowly wide, or straight at the keeper. You get the odd deviation from that but it's rare. Stance, ability, technique, angle, stats - all of it is bypassed to some extent in favour of the outcomes I just mentioned.

You can analyse all the videos you want, the shooting mechanics overall are half-baked and severely detrimental to the game in my opinion.
 
stupidusername said:
@curdstar Brevity is the soul of wit. I mean I see you still talking about goals per match ratios and other metrics you've made up that don't really address the point that the perception of these shots (not just first time shots, but difficult or ambitious shots in general) being too easy to pull off persists, mainly because there isn't a wide enough "spectrum" of outcomes, and I already conceded that we should be precise and not overstate the case.

The other big issue I have with PES 2018 is how easy it is to pull off "skill passes", backheels and stuff. I think it's more of an animation issue, i.e. the amount of times the game selects fancy trick passes makes it look really arcadey. It's super noticeable in the video DuduBR9 just posted. I'd love to be proven wrong on that one! :LOL:
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Fair enough if you are looking to widen the debate, but I'm picking up on one claim (that first time shots are too easy, too frequent, or whatever) and addressing that for the time being. Plenty time for me to look at other aspects of the game should I care to.

I actually hope they do ramp up the spectrum of possibilities and error, but only so as I can likely read people whine about how they don't feel like they have control over shots any longer. I'd bet good money that would happen.

In closing, I'll just say it is rather odd seeing all these folk talk about stats being boring and not important, but they are often the same people who say they want stats to drive everything in the game, and for there to be error EVERYWHERE, all while using Basic Heavily Assisted Shooting. Now that is funny.
 
curdstar said:
In closing, I'll just say it is rather odd seeing all these folk talk about stats being boring and not important, but they are often the same people who say they want stats to drive everything in the game, and for there to be error EVERYWHERE, all while using Basic Heavily Assisted Shooting. Now that is funny.
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But I think "these folks" (which is how you're referring to them) talk about a perception or a feeling they get when they play the game or watch videos, more than actual statistics or numbers.

And there are two things I don't understand about all this debate:
A)Why do they keep bothering watching videos and coming here posting about the things they don't like over and over again instead of just waiting until the Demo, or furthermore, the full game, play the hell out of it and then come to a definitive conclusion. Post it, debate it, and move on (to play it or not to, but stop commenting the same things time and time again).
B)Your need to debunk or make them feel sorry for what they think/feel/perceive about the game, like it was a Forum Rule to come up with evidence for everything we talk about in here. Would you feel better if one of them said "Oh... now that you explained it to me like that, and showed me the videos again, I suddenly stopped perceiving the first time shots are rather too accurate. I'm sorry for my previous claims!". IS THAT IT? Is that what it takes for your to cut it short?.

Don't get me wrong, I too find it annoying that some members of these boards like to come here and complain about the very same things every single day, it's like hearing a broken record. But hey, I choose to skip those posts when I'm not in the mood.
 
bluewomble88 said:
And?
Just because 16 were attempted, doesn't mean a lot more couldn't have been tried.
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And a whole lot less could've been tried too. And?

Of the 16 you mention, from a total of four matches, 12 were attempted in one match alone, so more were tried and with great frequency in one of the matches. Number of goals after that onslaught of easy first-time shots at goal in that match? 2. One a tap-in, the other a totally believable strike from Mane from inside the area after the keeper was off in his positioning.

16% success rate. 16%. For these easy, super accurate first-time shots in that match.

If you went to a roulette wheel and were told in advance that no matter what colour you pick you have a 26% chance of success as opposed to 50%, would you play? Same rule applies here in that based on current evidence if you decide to "play" first-time strikes at goal with the foot you have a 26% chance of success.

bluewomble88 said:
The question is, if you see every shot on goal from some distance in every video, first time or otherwise, they are mostly contained to a pretty narrow set of pre-defined outcomes - hard, straight, no dip, on target, narrowly wide, or straight at the keeper. You get the odd deviation from that but it's rare. Stance, ability, technique, angle, stats - all of it is bypassed to some extent in favour of the outcomes I just mentioned.
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Success rate of first-time shots struck with the foot from outside the area in the now 6 matches (that is over an hour of PES 2018) I have watched: 0%

You are trying to debate something else which does not currently have my attention. Super accurate and easy first-time shots at goal are what I am all about researching at the moment, following the claim made against them. 26% of the time they work 100% of the time, dude.

bluewomble88 said:
You can analyse all the videos you want
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Thank you, I will.
 
curdstar said:
Fair enough if you are looking to widen the debate, but I'm picking up on one claim (that first time shots are too easy, too frequent, or whatever) and addressing that for the time being. Plenty time for me to look at other aspects of the game should I care to.

I actually hope they do ramp up the spectrum of possibilities and error, but only so as I can likely read people whine about how they don't feel like they have control over shots any longer. I'd bet good money that would happen.

In closing, I'll just say it is rather odd seeing all these folk talk about stats being boring and not important, but they are often the same people who say they want stats to drive everything in the game, and for there to be error EVERYWHERE, all while using Basic Heavily Assisted Shooting. Now that is funny.
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i am seeing white flags. are they giving up? they finally found someone that challenges all their false claims and the room has gone quiet.
Oeps nope they started with a few other false claims.
these guys must be lawyers or prosecutors in real life and must be damn good at their jobs too.
as long as everyone here knows that there is a thing called "reasonable doubt" so do not take every claim as fact. most of them have already been proven to be false.
 
To be fair to @stupidusername I think you make some good points as to how we go about analysing. I guess I'm just looking to see if a certain claim made against the game can be debunked so as it can maybe be put in the background, for now.
 
RAMAXWY said:
i am seeing white flags. are they giving up? they finally found someone that challenges all their false claims and the room has gone quiet.
Oeps nope they started with a few other false claims.
these guys must be lawyers or prosecutors in real life and must be damn good at their jobs too.
as long as everyone here knows that there is a thing called "reasonable doubt" so do not take every claim as fact. most of them have already been proven to be false.
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i just posted a vid that simply explains how broken the foul system is in the game , pes 2016 and 2017, and most probably 2018 aswell, go watch the vid of the no penalty given, or lack of animation or whatever that is..
 
ramgamer said:
i just posted a vid that simply explains how broken the foul system is in the game , pes 2016 and 2017, and most probably 2018 aswell, go watch the vid of the no penalty given, or lack of animation or whatever that is..
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*Insert walls of text proving that Fouls aren't important*

:D
 
curdstar said:
And a whole lot less could've been tried too. And?

Of the 16 you mention, from a total of four matches, 12 were attempted in one match alone, so more were tried and with great frequency in one of the matches. Number of goals after that onslaught of easy first-time shots at goal in that match? 2. One a tap-in, the other a totally believable strike from Mane from inside the area after the keeper was off in his positioning.

16% success rate. 16%. For these easy, super accurate first-time shots in that match.

If you went to a roulette wheel and were told in advance that no matter what colour you pick you have a 26% chance of success as opposed to 50%, would you play? Same rule applies here in that based on current evidence if you decide to "play" first-time strikes at goal with the foot you have a 26% chance of success.



Success rate of first-time shots struck with the foot from outside the area in the now 6 matches (that is over an hour of PES 2018) I have watched: 0%

You are trying to debate something else which does not currently have my attention. Super accurate and easy first-time shots at goal are what I am all about researching at the moment, following the claim made against them. 26% of the time they work 100% of the time, dude.



Thank you, I will.
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I'm not talking about success rate ffs. For someone that clearly prides himself as one that pays attention to details, you are ignoring my point entirely. I don't care if 100% of 29 shots go wide or all go in, I'm talking about the animation not matching the expected outcomes of each shot. The angle, speed, stats, ball movement - all of it feels totally disconnected to the animation and user input. Previous classic titles had that feeling of elation when you craft a late winner, or they made you take a sharp intake of breath when you hit the post, desperately reaching for the replay feature. The floaty keepers just make a bad situation worse. For all it's faults, Fifa 16 has shooting mechanics that play out consistently to user input - swerve, dip, lifelike output depending on player ability and ball contact etc., and keepers that don't hang in the air.
 
shez said:
So where or when does the three years cycle exactly starts?

Most of the stuff promised haven't been delivered yet, And we're actually losing some features since PES 2013. If you look at the tone of Konami prior the beta they were pretty specific about some improvements (shooting,ML) but now have been relatively quiet and offish when quizzed about things like fouls and AI behaviour

I personnally feel excited this year about the modding possiblities for PC,The game speed, bringing back the superior set piece system, No catchup bug and hopefully a better AI.

Oh and what does "best quality product in a decade" actually mean?
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yeah, Adam said shooting is still being worked on. "So let's see it Adam" When people playing beta said it was the same as 2017. Not enough variety, lack of shooting animations, shots being overpowered and to often on target even first timers. If body positioning, shooting animations not matching power of shots, strong or weak foot meaning something, don't effect the outcome properly (like real life) it's a unfinished broken system = to easy to score = boring = delete game after 6 months hoping 2019 is better.
 
Bond!JamesBond! said:
yeah, Adam said shooting is still being worked on. "So let's see it Adam" When people playing beta said it was the same as 2017. Not enough variety, lack of shooting animations, shots being overpowered and to often on target even first timers. If body positioning, shooting animations not matching power of shots, strong or weak foot meaning something, don't effect the outcome properly (like real life) it's a unfinished broken system = to easy to score = boring = delete game after 6 months hoping 2019 is better.
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yeah its the lack of animations, thats the problem, and u know shooting is not important, at all, let s play a broken shooting system game, why not,shot variety should not be there, u know its not part of the game at all, the shooting fix it....fix adam bahtti.....fix th shooting once and for all..
 
bluewomble88 said:
I'm not talking about success rate ffs. For someone that clearly prides himself as one that pays attention to details, you are ignoring my point entirely. I don't care if 100% of 29 shots go wide or all go in, I'm talking about the animation not matching the expected outcomes of each shot. The angle, speed, stats, ball movement - all of it feels totally disconnected to the animation and user input. Previous classic titles had that feeling of elation when you craft a late winner, or they made you take a sharp intake of breath when you hit the post, desperately reaching for the replay feature. The floaty keepers just make a bad situation worse. For all it's faults, Fifa 16 has shooting mechanics that play out consistently to user input - swerve, dip, lifelike output depending on player ability and ball contact etc., and keepers that don't hang in the air.
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i like the way u elaborate it
 
Bond!JamesBond! said:
too often on target even first timers.
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Under 50% being on target is too often? Them currently proving to carry around a 22% chance of a goal (0% from outside the box, currently) based on my analysis is too often? Really? Any first-time strike at goal with a foot? Just hitting the ball first-time with a foot towards goal? That, in isolation, succeeding around 22% of the time is too frequent?

Do you know what a first-time shot is? I'm being serious.

How many goals do think were scored due to a player hitting the ball first-time when it came to him in all the fixtures from the top three European leagues last weekend? That is 30 fixtures. Do you think it was like 2 or something? Do you think the number of first-time strikes simply on target was 12? What are you basing your claim on?
 
Bond!JamesBond! said:
yeah, Adam said shooting is still being worked on. "So let's see it Adam" When people playing beta said it was the same as 2017. Not enough variety, lack of shooting animations, shots being overpowered and to often on target even first timers. If body positioning, shooting animations not matching power of shots, strong or weak foot meaning something, don't effect the outcome properly (like real life) it's a unfinished broken system = to easy to score = boring = delete game after 6 months hoping 2019 is better.
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Bang on.
No 1 concern for me. Until shooting is like you described pes is a no go for me :(
 
ramgamer said:
haha yeah fouls are not important u know xd, fouls are not part of football u know xd
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Penalties are horrible in 17,or lack of them.
But free kicks and fouls outside the box?
No way,I'm drawing plenty of free kick,have been since day one.
The problem with penalties is the CPU being to good in those situations and never hits you over the leg properly,that needs changing
 
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I like how shez ramgamer bond James bond and bluewomble flat out ignore Curdstars facts that he puts forward. Then they go so far as to post 2017 videos to complain about the lack of fouls.

Think this thread is in need of a bit of a mop up now and in all honesty those that aren't interested in PES need to move on.

PS I hear wenb is quite the place these days. They completely overun by anti pes people
 
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