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PES 2018 PlayStation & Xbox Discussion Thread

The thing that bothers me that I still see is how players change position off the ball. It doesn't look natural. They don't ever walk they run most of the time to look for position and it looks off putting.
 
Adding to Chris' post above, I believe we already know the reason they haven't and won't implement sliders. Just to be clear, I would never tweet this to Adam or Asim, as it may come across as offensive and disrespectful.

So what I mean is that we've heard numerous times from people like Nesa, who, along with Juce, has been modding the game since forever, that most of the game's code is a total mess. Basically, if you tinker with something too much, 5 other things would get broken. Adam also said that the reason they cannot tweak the shooting as much as we want, is that there are so many variables and other things which would get screwed up (which imo is reinforcing the hypothesis of the badly written code).

Like it or not, I don't think we'll get sliders in the near future.
 
gerd said:
IMO there are some hardcore fans who expect too much from companies like Konami or EA.
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banbenbin said:
Agreed, but what is the right amount to demand/expect?
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The right amount to expect is the amount that Konami have already given us. If you've played PES 2017, you know the level of authenticity you're getting from PES 2018 (i.e. plenty, but with sacrifices to realism to ensure something actually happens in each match, and fantasy elements such as retired players being reincarnated for your youth squad - that's not a coding mistake, that's a conscious decision on their part).

As for the right amount to demand... They're not claiming to be creating a simulation, so what grounds do we have (even when purchasing the game) to claim that it isn't fair?

banbenbin said:
For me, I set the standard at NBA 2k games for gameplay and FM for immersion. If they can reach those levels of realism and please so much of their audience, then why can't football games have that?
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I'm sure they could, but no big developer is making that game at the moment.

My absolute dream is PES mixed with Football Manager. But it's not what Konami are aiming for. They want something to sell to the FIFA guys, and the hardcore guys, with a (company-wide) focus on microtransactions. They aren't building a simulator, and I've stopped hoping for it, because it's like hoping an apple will turn into an orange.

Speaking of comparing apples to oranges (as in, I'm about to do that!) - NBA2k and FM are good examples of pretty sim-ish games that sell well, but what about the ones that don't? The Golf Club 2 is a good example of something aimed at the hardcore - I love it. But it's got 3,000 likes on Facebook. EA's golf game has 380,000. (Not sales figures, but you catch my drift, i.e. make a game for casual players and it'll sell, especially if it's purdy to look at.)

When I win the lottery*, I'm going to found a studio, hire the best and most enthusiastic developers out there, and put something together for ME. Attribute dependency, ball freedom, tactical importance, decent AI, and lots of people dedicated to creating a career mode with hundreds of features (I'd like to talk to a player who's uncomfortable in the role I'm playing him in, for example).

*I don't play the lottery, this will never happen and it breaks my heart.
 
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Chris Davies said:
The right amount to expect is the amount that Konami have already given us. If you've played PES 2017, you know the level of authenticity you're getting from PES 2018 (i.e. plenty, but with sacrifices to realism to ensure something actually happens in each match, and fantasy elements such as retired players being reincarnated for your youth squad - that's not a coding mistake, that's a conscious decision on their part).

As for the right amount to demand... They're not claiming to be creating a simulation, so what grounds do we have (even when purchasing the game) to claim that it isn't fair?


I'm sure they could, but no big developer is making that game at the moment.

My absolute dream is PES mixed with Football Manager. But it's not what Konami are aiming for. They want something to sell to the FIFA guys, and the hardcore guys, with a (company-wide) focus on microtransactions. They aren't building a simulator, and I've stopped hoping for it, because it's like hoping an apple will turn into an orange.

Speaking of comparing apples to oranges (as in, I'm about to do that!) - NBA2k and FM are good examples of pretty sim-ish games that sell well, but what about the ones that don't? The Golf Club 2 is a good example of something aimed at the hardcore - I love it. But it's got 3,000 likes on Facebook. EA's golf game has 380,000. (Not sales figures, but you catch my drift, i.e. make a game for casual players and it'll sell, especially if it's purdy to look at.)

When I win the lottery*, I'm going to found a studio, hire the best and most enthusiastic developers out there, and put something together for ME. Attribute dependency, ball freedom, tactical importance, decent AI, and lots of people dedicated to creating a career mode with hundreds of features (I'd like to talk to a player who's uncomfortable in the role I'm playing him in, for example).

*I don't play the lottery, this will never happen and it breaks my heart.
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Good post Chris.
 
Topaz said:
I think the only bad practice from Konami with PES is that they don't allow much customize able. There are no sliders so you can't tweak your gameplay preference like you can with FIFA. And I think that is that way due to laziness. There are no cons to allow players to adjust their own gameplay preference for single-player(which will fix all the uproar by the hardcore players).
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Agree up to a point: however, no amount of slider tuning will fix the horrible CPU AI buildup in FIFA. Which is why I did not give them my money this year, and won't until they fix it.

Sorry if this is off topic, but the discussions intersect badly.
 
James Beaver said:
Agree up to a point: however, no amount of slider tuning will fix the horrible CPU AI buildup in FIFA. Which is why I did not give them my money this year, and won't until they fix it.

Sorry if this is off topic, but the discussions intersect badly.
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Did you try CTTS? They fixed them this year, so krebstar from OS actually made a website on them: projec10.org
 
Matt10 said:
Did you try CTTS? They fixed them this year, so krebstar from OS actually made a website on them: projec10.org
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Sorry for being offtopic but does custom team tactics actually have influence on the team?(Like teams player long ball instead of tiki taka if you set it like that). For me, it stopped working after FIFA 14.
 
Topaz said:
Sorry for being offtopic but does custom team tactics actually have influence on the team?(Like teams player long ball instead of tiki taka if you set it like that). For me, it stopped working after FIFA 14.
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Yes it does. They have been broke since 15, and fixed in 17. A second controller or keyboard allows you to make these changes for the AI before the kick off as well.
 
i don t mean to be trolling im saying this for superleeds, but i have said something that i don t want to see in pes 2018, which is the laser guided passing and that passing speed should be reduced, this is what ruined the experience for me and i think i am entitled to give my opinion about something very very bad in the game
 
ramgamer said:
i don t mean to be trolling im saying this for superleeds, but i have said something that i don t want to see in pes 2018, which is the laser guided passing and that passing speed should be reduced, this is what ruined the experience for me and i think i am entitled to give my opinion about something very very bad in the game
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Yes, I think they've addressed that by lowering the pass speed.
 
Chris Davies said:
The right amount to expect is the amount that Konami have already given us. If you've played PES 2017, you know the level of authenticity you're getting from PES 2018 (i.e. plenty, but with sacrifices to realism to ensure something actually happens in each match, and fantasy elements such as retired players being reincarnated for your youth squad - that's not a coding mistake, that's a conscious decision on their part).

As for the right amount to demand... They're not claiming to be creating a simulation, so what grounds do we have (even when purchasing the game) to claim that it isn't fair?


I'm sure they could, but no big developer is making that game at the moment.

My absolute dream is PES mixed with Football Manager. But it's not what Konami are aiming for. They want something to sell to the FIFA guys, and the hardcore guys, with a (company-wide) focus on microtransactions. They aren't building a simulator, and I've stopped hoping for it, because it's like hoping an apple will turn into an orange.

Speaking of comparing apples to oranges (as in, I'm about to do that!) - NBA2k and FM are good examples of pretty sim-ish games that sell well, but what about the ones that don't? The Golf Club 2 is a good example of something aimed at the hardcore - I love it. But it's got 3,000 likes on Facebook. EA's golf game has 380,000. (Not sales figures, but you catch my drift, i.e. make a game for casual players and it'll sell, especially if it's purdy to look at.)

When I win the lottery*, I'm going to found a studio, hire the best and most enthusiastic developers out there, and put something together for ME. Attribute dependency, ball freedom, tactical importance, decent AI, and lots of people dedicated to creating a career mode with hundreds of features (I'd like to talk to a player who's uncomfortable in the role I'm playing him in, for example).

*I don't play the lottery, this will never happen and it breaks my heart.
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What a tease. "When I win the lottery..." followed by ... "I don't play the lottery..."

I was hoping for a job as a developer...blast. Crushed my dream.
 
Ameppe said:
That's not the point. You say KONAMI is not able to reproduce a realistic ball movement, saying "well, maybe by 2022 they will understand that". How is that not a troll post?
Besides the flaws you are noticing with the Pes games (and from these videos) seem extremely important to you, so i can't understand how you can play a game that is so flawed.

I wish people would be more positive towards developers, Adam,Asim, etc. Posting sarcastic and troll messages is not going to help them make the game better it will just make discussion on forums toxic.

I like the way @Matt10 , @Chris Davies , @romagnoli talk about the game flaws. Always being respectful and trying to expose their worries without being overly cynical.
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so, just sugar coat it? OK...
 
I said any off topic posts would be removed and they have, anyone think I am exaggerating that?
Hell, we have threads here for everything at Evo Web,every game,off topic,club threads,and people selfishly want to destroy the flow of PES 2018 thread.

Its an infraction for next deliberate off topic post.


Try it.
 
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spektarm said:
Adding to Chris' post above, I believe we already know the reason they haven't and won't implement sliders. Just to be clear, I would never tweet this to Adam or Asim, as it may come across as offensive and disrespectful.

So what I mean is that we've heard numerous times from people like Nesa, who, along with Juce, has been modding the game since forever, that most of the game's code is a total mess. Basically, if you tinker with something too much, 5 other things would get broken. Adam also said that the reason they cannot tweak the shooting as much as we want, is that there are so many variables and other things which would get screwed up (which imo is reinforcing the hypothesis of the badly written code).

Like it or not, I don't think we'll get sliders in the near future.
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I imagine the budget would also be limited here. That's the reality of what I'm starting to face. EA can have their base engine design customization, but with PES it may be already locked in.

Anyway, I already have a feeling it will be another year of modifying things, however I do also believe that the BASE of what's there, is much better than PES 17 - and that says a lot because after PES 16, PES 17 was a great improvement.
 
Matt10 said:
And that is why FIFA will always get my money. FIFA lets me customize my experience, so if I don't fall within Joe Public's demands, I'm within my own. Sure the base is flawed, but at least the customization is there ten-fold.

What I would love is KONAMI/PES guys to admit that they've designed an open-ended game, and not combat me on playing the game or giving other excuses. It's open-ended because that's the design - not because of this, this and the other "tactic".

That is what frustrates me more. Being told it's a gameplay masterclass, then seeing nothing within basic/tactical/advanced fundamentals achieved.

What it does mean, as pushing for a realistic game is always a curse, is it will be another year of modifying the multiple chefs in the kitchen (tactics, adv instructions, roles, player styles) to achieve the very basic of fundamentals.
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which by doing this differs from what a football game really is, a DEFENSIVE sport. It's funny some say open game with easy goals is more fun. Then why do i enjoy Winning Eleven 7 more than today's PES? Hogwash i say......
 
With all due respect to all opinions, Which are all valid points for sure. Football is the greatest and most popular game in the world. If you're gonna hog the licenses for decades then you better deliver otherwise there should be a strong alternative. How can they get away with these products and not worry about taking a hit on sales, Or bother to provide documentation in how stuff actually works in the game?

The aim isn't to get my own individual way, I'm in my mid thirties and I probably will reach a point where I'll reject anything new and revolutionary (that's life). But we try to provide some input sometimes aggressively to get the point across. Which is that there should be standards for a proper football game carrying this great title.

The Master league, AI, Keepers, Edit mode should be in constant development and evolution. It went downhill and we lost track and most of the community around 2014. We stuck together and got it to a good place now, We shouldn't allow any regression and give excuses because we've been there before.

NBA2k took over NBA live and football manager destroyed any competition just by listeneing to their fans and getting the fundamentals right. A game with no fouls, Weird keepers, Pathetic master league or an inferior edit mode is not tolerated at this point.
 
Turns out the discussion can get even more barmy and hateful. Everyday a school day, I guess.
 
About sliders. Yes, some variables affect gameplay in a way that intoducing a slider for them would raise a fair amount of problem....but that's not the case for many other values.

fouls
shoots percentage
cross percentage
first touch error
shoot precision
pass precision
match speed

just this list would be great and i'm pretty positive it wouldn't be difficult. I can explain you for every value in the list why it would not create any problem and how to implement it.
 
Football is a defensive sport? I'm not sure i agree.
Some clubs play defensive, other master the art of defending (Juventus for example, but i wouldn't call that a defensive team).

Spurs have the best defense in the EPL. Are they a defensive team? As a fan i've seen all their matches, they are definitely not a defensive team.

A couple of years ago Four FourTwo made a ranking of the most influential teams ever. Johan Cruijff's Ajax was the number 1 team in that ranking. That was a very, very offensive team.
 
bukowski said:
About sliders. Yes, some variables affect gameplay in a way that intoducing a slider for them would raise a fair amount of problem....but that's not the case for many other values. [...] just this list would be great and i'm pretty positive it wouldn't be difficult. I can explain you for every value in the list why it would not create any problem and how to implement it.
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The ones I'm not agreeing with are 'shoot percentage' and 'cross percentage'. They should not be defined by sliders but by tactics.
Global sliders for the other values would be met with extreme joy (and, if you think about it, we already have the 'match speed' one).
 
shez said:
NBA2k took over NBA live and football manager destroyed any competition just by listening to their fans and getting the fundamentals right. A game with no fouls, Weird keepers, Pathetic master league or an inferior edit mode is not tolerated at this point.
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NBA2k and Football manager? I haven't played either in over a decade and nowhere near as much as I play PES.

I still question why so many people here even bother hanging around in this thread everyday because they have clearly written off PES 2018 ..its fucking weird. Are you picketing?

yair25 said:
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damn this video is bonkers. So many new animations in faces and player body movements. I need the beta already !
 
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zeemeister said:
NBA2k and Football manager? I haven't played either in over a decade and nowhere near as much as I play PES.

I still question why so many people here even bother hanging around in this thread everyday because they have clearly written off PES 2018 ..its fucking weird. Are you picketing?


damn this video is bonkers. So many new animations in faces and player body movements. I need the beta already !
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im still waiting to see if they will improve the keepers aggression by coming out and diving aggressively when one on one, havent seen that yet, thats what im waiting to see to get a lil optimistic towards pes18
 
Please be July 20th soon! I check this forum on a daily basis, some really great posts most of the time (sure, a bit negative at times but I find it miles better than the WENB- forum...) But I know that when the beta hits people will PICK IT APART and ruin my enjoyment of it. I'm gonna read stuff I haven't experienced myself (good and bad) and start to notice them, I want to discover them myself. I'm the same when people post great goals, I never watch them, it takes away some of the fun (for me) to see these goals, it's like I'm watching someone unlock hidden treasures in a Zelda game or something :D.

So, I'm staying far away from forums around July 20th! :)
 
Jimi_Zuko said:
im still waiting to see if they will improve the keepers aggression by coming out and diving aggressively when one on one, havent seen that yet, thats what im waiting to see to get a lil optimistic towards pes18
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Yep. It's not apparent on the videos we have seen.

I know on PES 2017 it's related to the Offensive/defensive keeper attribute. What I don't get is if a keeper has neither what is his default?

I THINK that since they made shooting on basic settings so accurate that if you attemted to chip the keeper, you have a greater success rate and their quick fix was to keep the keeper rooted to the goal line. This is just my deduction so not sure if it's correct but I do recall one of the years that this was an issue and since then keepers rushing off the line have been nerfed.

I wish there was a team at KONAMI dedicated to just fixing the known glaring issues but as someone mentioned that the build is such that if you amend one thing the whole deck of cards come tumbling down.
 
@fregen
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