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PES 2018 PlayStation & Xbox Discussion Thread

@Matt10 I understand where your coming from in regards to cutting passing lanes, but at the same time from the football I seen and watching football most of my life, not all sides are capable of cutting lanes as that to me comes to having a football brain, would you be happy if Konami created a stat called positioning, obviously higher the number, player cuts lanes and holds position, that way you can tailor your tactics based on that stat, would also take the transfer system to another level, and would also have that variety between teams
 
ianni said:
So only hardcore fans accomplished that PES 2018 got feedback heard?

Being driven by nostalgia isn't always good, because it can blind ourselves. Also, people don't question hardcore fan's feedback, but the way that feedback is being shown to KONAMI. It is understandable that we are burned, but time has prove that if we feedback while being rude, nothing can be accomplished.
Click to expand...

Great post!
 
RAMAXWY said:
FIFA doesn't do a thing and yet they get praised for it, KONAMI started listening to the fans more and gets crucified. no wonder they wanna go the FIFA route.
if you mean literally "hurt a soul" then i guess not but it hurt the gameplay pretty much. the old games like you said are a testament that they had it figured out before they started listening to all the critics.
i just wished they'd go back to doing things the old way, their way, instead of trying to please everyone (which is impossible)and loosing their fan base.
before all this crap started.
they should really do it FIFA STYLE.
goodness knows, we really deserve that, cause if effort is being treated this way...............

can you blame Adam for reacting the way he often does? don't think so...
loyal fans...............not much seem to be left
Click to expand...

I think the old games are just that, it's pop culture, it's in the past. You can still learn from it to find solutions. The scope of this specific industry is changing, and the demographic to make the big $$ is changing. They (KONAMI) have to pull on all threads. I hate that they had to find FIFA FUT youtubers to do so, but if it means we get more $$ to license more teams/players/stadiums, etc, then it's for the good of the game.

They will always do things their way for a bit, but when has that ever worked for any company? Times have changed, and everything is instant. Twitter is your lead source versus actually inviting beta testers to the headquarters. That's just how it is, and that's not negative or positive thing...it is what it is.

No matter what industry you are in, you will be subject for abuse by idiots. That's the law of the numbers, 10 people click thumbs up to like your product, 3 people hate it and thumbs down, and 1 person states their opinion.

There are plenty of loyal fans left. Some aren't vocal at all, and some are. Some say what KONAMI wants to hear, and some say what KONAMI do not want to hear. It should not matter - it's being heard is what does. I think PES 18 is in a good place with Adam/Asim, these guy are hardcore and fans of the series. Like I've said, they are in an extremely tight spot because the PES fan is the toughest critic.

Jimi_Zuko said:
@Matt10 I understand where your coming from in regards to cutting passing lanes, but at the same time from the football I seen and watching football most of my life, not all sides are capable of cutting lanes as that to me comes to having a football brain, would you be happy if Konami created a stat called positioning, obviously higher the number, player cuts lanes and holds position, that way you can tailor your tactics based on that stat, would also take the transfer system to another level, and would also have that variety between teams
Click to expand...

Absolutely. In previous PES, that stat was called Tenacity. Look at my work in PES 13 with adjusting tenacity. Made so much of a difference. I would love a Positioning stat. Currently it's just Attack/Defense Prowess and then Ball Winning. I'd rather not have key aspects of a player be consolidated into the general stats like that.
 
I
Matt10 said:
I think the old games are just that, it's pop culture, it's in the past. You can still learn from it to find solutions. The scope of this specific industry is changing, and the demographic to make the big $$ is changing. They (KONAMI) have to pull on all threads. I hate that they had to find FIFA FUT youtubers to do so, but if it means we get more $$ to license more teams/players/stadiums, etc, then it's for the good of the game.

They will always do things their way for a bit, but when has that ever worked for any company? Times have changed, and everything is instant. Twitter is your lead source versus actually inviting beta testers to the headquarters. That's just how it is, and that's not negative or positive thing...it is what it is.

No matter what industry you are in, you will be subject for abuse by idiots. That's the law of the numbers, 10 people click thumbs up to like your product, 3 people hate it and thumbs down, and 1 person states their opinion.

There are plenty of loyal fans left. Some aren't vocal at all, and some are. Some say what KONAMI wants to hear, and some say what KONAMI do not want to hear. It should not matter - it's being heard is what does. I think PES 18 is in a good place with Adam/Asim, these guy are hardcore and fans of the series. Like I've said, they are in an extremely tight spot because the PES fan is the toughest critic.



Absolutely. In previous PES, that stat was called Tenacity. Look at my work in PES 13 with adjusting tenacity. Made so much of a difference. I would love a Positioning stat. Currently it's just Attack/Defense Prowess and then Ball Winning. I'd rather not have key aspects of a player be consolidated into the general stats like that.
Click to expand...
im sure adam and co would welcome a stat like that, which I do agree i believe is a very important stat to have and would create limitless amount of shaping different types of formations, if not in PES18 hope to see it next year
 
what if we have a good idea thread opened, and only good ideas can go there. this thread has plenty but they are 40 pages apart and get lost. A thread that you can't post in and it just has short to the point good ideas. To show Konami.
 
Bond!JamesBond! said:
what if we have a good idea thread opened, and only good ideas can go there. this thread has plenty but they are 40 pages apart and get lost. A thread that you can't post in and it just has short to the point good ideas. To show Konami.
Click to expand...
This itself is a good idea, but... Who decides if an idea is good or not? We would need a dedicate 'voting' section also.
  • Everyone of us who has an idea opens a poll for it in the 'voting' section, explaining it in the opening post and adding just two options: 'yes' or 'no'.
  • Everyone of us (even the ones not interested in that very idea) votes 'yes' or 'no'. People could vote and suggest improvements to the idea (and it would be up to the thread opener to decide whether to add those improvements in the opening post or not).
  • If the idea gets many 'yes' votes compared to the 'no' ones, it could be forwarded by a mod in the "official ideas and suggestion" thread.
It could work, but in order to keep it clean it must be a little overcomplicated in my opinion.
 
*aLe said:
This itself is a good idea, but... Who decides if an idea is good or not? We would need a dedicate 'voting' section also.
  • Everyone of us who has an idea opens a poll for it in the 'voting' section, explaining it in the opening post and adding just two options: 'yes' or 'no'.
  • Everyone of us (even the ones not interested in that very idea) votes 'yes' or 'no'. People could vote and suggest improvements to the idea (and it would be up to the thread opener to decide whether to add those improvements in the opening post or not).
  • If the idea gets many 'yes' votes compared to the 'no' ones, it could be forwarded by a mod in the "official ideas and suggestion" thread.
It could work, but in order to keep it clean it must be a little overcomplicated in my opinion.
Click to expand...
The voting section would be the best, that way adam and co can see what the majority want from this group, Wenb, operation sports should do something similar as well
 
*aLe said:
This itself is a good idea, but... Who decides if an idea is good or not? We would need a dedicate 'voting' section also.
  • Everyone of us who has an idea opens a poll for it in the 'voting' section, explaining it in the opening post and adding just two options: 'yes' or 'no'.
  • Everyone of us (even the ones not interested in that very idea) votes 'yes' or 'no'. People could vote and suggest improvements to the idea (and it would be up to the thread opener to decide whether to add those improvements in the opening post or not).
  • If the idea gets many 'yes' votes compared to the 'no' ones, it could be forwarded by a mod in the "official ideas and suggestion" thread.
It could work, but in order to keep it clean it must be a little overcomplicated in my opinion.
Click to expand...
yeah short and sweet ideas, and voted for best idea, than send to konami.
this way most important get sent.
 
I get the feeling sometimes that some people in here don't want the new game to succeed. . . focussing on the negatives and ignoring the positives. . . comparing old Pes games to the vids we've seen and pointing out why the old games were better all the time. . .control issues could be coming into play here. .. . as in play the game the way I want you to play it. .. there could be improvements in shooting from what we are hearing. ..remember last year they brought back att/def levels but suddenly they became the problem? It's too late now to change this years game . . .don't turn it into a situation where everything is nitpicked and negative. . .it ruins the game for people who actually enjoy it . ..remember even though Pes 2017 was slated on the forums constantly. .. .a lot of people have admitted that they have played it longer than most other Pes titles.
 
Deco said:
comparing old Pes games to the vids we've seen and pointing out why the old games were better all the time.
Click to expand...
It's the usual nostalgia that we all have with everything, people think music was better back in the 80's but can't remember the absolute torrent of shite music that also existed then too.

Outside of PES, everyone used to love Call of Duty games from around COD2 to MW2 and everyone talks about the glory days of COD4 and that, no-one remembers 3x frag grenades, last stand, martyrdom or in MW2 One Man Army Danger Close Grenade launchers. I always say that League of Legends was better in season 3 but actually it probably wasn't, the game is at it's best point currently in terms of visuals, breadth of strategy and items and having the better players right at the top.

It happens in everything - I can't remember anything bad about PES5 or PES3 because I've chosen not to, I only cherish the good memories and not the bad. I guarantee in 10 years time there'll be a post on this forum that starts with "Well, PES 2028 looks good but nothing compares to the amount of fun I have on PES 2017, that was PES at it's peak".
 
People are overanalysing the video's.
They pick on thing they would never see when they play the game and are immersed in it.
Somebdy said that in the WENB podcast and i totally agree with that.

IMO it's not intelligent to want a tactically perfect game (that is false realism, because irl tactical perfection rarely is achieved and it leads to extremely boring football). Mistakes and imperfections are an integral and important part of football.

This said and idea thread would be a...ahum...good idea.
 
hitmanuk said:
^^ also people didn't talk about how bad it was all day on the internet. I am convinced if there was no twitter / constant negativity we would all enjoy both PES and FIFA..we spend so much time convincing each other how bad the other one is we end up convincing ourselves
Click to expand...

I think there's a lot to be said for the fact there wasn't really an alternative, too. FIFA didn't do anything better than PES that I can remember until 08. When people disliked PES 5 to begin with, they couldn't just piss off to FIFA or point out all the things it did better and find enjoyment in that. They HAD to give PES the hours if they wanted to enjoy a football game for the rest of the year. Instead it was like "well, fouls are annoying but what choice do i have?"

It also helped that everyone's mates played PES, now everyone's mates play FIFA (or at least mine do). Again, if you wanted to do well in tournaments, you needed to play a lot of the game.

Regardless of what anyone's opinion of FIFA is now, it is a viable alternative which does some things brilliantly in its own right. it's now not just a choice for licenses but people can find other things they prefer in the game, too. From what i've seen in the videos, PES is starting to once again do plenty of things better. They've actually recognised that visuals are alos a huge factor in getting people playing. at first glance, if a game looks stunning, a lot of people will give it a chance, simply because they love aesthetically pleasing games.
 
Jimi_Zuko said:
@Matt10 I understand where your coming from in regards to cutting passing lanes, but at the same time from the football I seen and watching football most of my life, not all sides are capable of cutting lanes as that to me comes to having a football brain, would you be happy if Konami created a stat called positioning, obviously higher the number, player cuts lanes and holds position, that way you can tailor your tactics based on that stat, would also take the transfer system to another level, and would also have that variety between teams
Click to expand...
Shouldn't that be the defensive awareness stat we already have?
 
ianni said:
So only hardcore fans accomplished that PES 2018 got feedback heard?

Being driven by nostalgia isn't always good, because it can blind ourselves. Also, people don't question hardcore fan's feedback, but the way that feedback is being shown to KONAMI. It is understandable that we are burned, but time has prove that if we feedback while being rude, nothing can be accomplished.
Click to expand...
I couldn't have been any nicer for many years when giving feedback, yet I was always ignored in favor of the masses preferences from hair to boots to tattoos and all that bullshit. Like Adam said, we are VERY low on the priority list. They're a business and they want to sell this game to the masses, that's their direction. I wish it was a niche for the niche, only then we'd be heard extensively.

tomj said:
It's the usual nostalgia that we all have with everything, people think music was better back in the 80's but can't remember the absolute torrent of shite music that also existed then too.

Outside of PES, everyone used to love Call of Duty games from around COD2 to MW2 and everyone talks about the glory days of COD4 and that, no-one remembers 3x frag grenades, last stand, martyrdom or in MW2 One Man Army Danger Close Grenade launchers. I always say that League of Legends was better in season 3 but actually it probably wasn't, the game is at it's best point currently in terms of visuals, breadth of strategy and items and having the better players right at the top.

It happens in everything - I can't remember anything bad about PES5 or PES3 because I've chosen not to, I only cherish the good memories and not the bad. I guarantee in 10 years time there'll be a post on this forum that starts with "Well, PES 2028 looks good but nothing compares to the amount of fun I have on PES 2017, that was PES at it's peak".
Click to expand...
You know what was 100% better back then? KFC.
 
I think a stat like "Positioning", "Tactical Awareness" or "Tenacity" will bring a good balance between good team vs bad teams. Teams like Sunderland aren't as organized in real life like they are in PES which is extremely irritating considering you have more chances to lose against a weaker team than a bigger team in PES 2017. That's the only reason I play old-gen PES and even PES like 2013 and 2010.
 
gerd said:
My kids (14 and 17) laugh with me when i play PES...
Click to expand...

My Kids are the same. They are young, they ask if i'm playing an old soccer game :-) The say put Zelda or Mario Kart on.

Also whatever it's worth, Offline PES on the field is for more immersive than FIFA. FIFA may have licenses and stadiums, but it doesn't feel like i'm going through the emotions of a league season; Where I need to get players that will change it up, alter tactics, etc.
 
Chris Davies said:
I think it would make a world of difference to these guys if there was an "option file hub" within the game itself, where you could easily (and without a PC) download and apply option files. Perhaps there are legal issues there, but if they don't actually host the material, and the game lets you make teams appear to be licensed when they're not, I don't see how it's any different doing it on the console as opposed to the PC.

That's a question I'd love to ask to the Konami guys.
Click to expand...

Great idea. Being a baseball player i buy MLB the show every year. They have online "vaults" to download sliders and rosters. There are a lot of classic rosters which enable you to pretty much play any season from history that you want.
And somehow there are no license issues (and USA are normally pretty strict about these things).
So an option file hub sounds amazing!
 
Now i see people being self critical about being too negative on pretty much everything Pes.

What happened? Some reasonable posts too.

As for myself i always tried to not be overly critic, i know there are some big issues with the game and game development, but i try to use twitter to make my voice heard (the guy talking Adam about fouls, that's me) or surveys. It's completely useless to repeat the same things over and over on boards. The fact some of you act like KONAMI owes them something it's ridicolous in my opinion.

KONAMI developes Pes as they want, they try to take feedback on board, but can't please everyone, so the entitled hardcore fan are angry. People saying KONAMI (or every other developer) is lazy are so far from the truth. Do you really believe they want to release an incomplete game?

Besides if you really dislike what Pes has become make your voice heard not buying the game. Insulting Adam and Asim that are just doing their job is not fair. Their job includes overhyping the game, you should know that.
 
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Matt10 said:
I think the old games are just that, it's pop culture, it's in the past. You can still learn from it to find solutions. The scope of this specific industry is changing, and the demographic to make the big $$ is changing. They (KONAMI) have to pull on all threads. I hate that they had to find FIFA FUT youtubers to do so, but if it means we get more $$ to license more teams/players/stadiums, etc, then it's for the good of the game.

They will always do things their way for a bit, but when has that ever worked for any company? Times have changed, and everything is instant. Twitter is your lead source versus actually inviting beta testers to the headquarters. That's just how it is, and that's not negative or positive thing...it is what it is.

No matter what industry you are in, you will be subject for abuse by idiots. That's the law of the numbers, 10 people click thumbs up to like your product, 3 people hate it and thumbs down, and 1 person states their opinion.

There are plenty of loyal fans left. Some aren't vocal at all, and some are. Some say what KONAMI wants to hear, and some say what KONAMI do not want to hear. It should not matter - it's being heard is what does. I think PES 18 is in a good place with Adam/Asim, these guy are hardcore and fans of the series. Like I've said, they are in an extremely tight spot because the PES fan is the toughest critic.



Absolutely. In previous PES, that stat was called Tenacity. Look at my work in PES 13 with adjusting tenacity. Made so much of a difference. I would love a Positioning stat. Currently it's just Attack/Defense Prowess and then Ball Winning. I'd rather not have key aspects of a player be consolidated into the general stats like that.
Click to expand...

the sales don't reflect it though and that is our biggest problem. that's why they are changing the priorities.
 
Bond!JamesBond! said:
what if we have a good idea thread opened, and only good ideas can go there. this thread has plenty but they are 40 pages apart and get lost. A thread that you can't post in and it just has short to the point good ideas. To show Konami.
Click to expand...
great idea.
 
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Deco said:
I get the feeling sometimes that some people in here don't want the new game to succeed. . . focussing on the negatives and ignoring the positives. . .
Click to expand...
Just to respond to this quickly (I don't think it was aimed at me but I could be wrong, the shoe does fit ;))):

I do ignore the positives and call out the negatives - guilty as charged - but it really isn't for the reason you say, I promise you.

It's 100% because of fear that 2018 will be immensely improved except in the areas that have stopped me playing 2017 (which you have done too), which means I'll stop playing 2018 even sooner.

Did you stop playing 2017 because the dribbling wasn't natural? Or because players weren't unique enough? Or because you didn't have enough options from corners?

No - and it's great that they've improved that stuff (miraculously so, it would seem)! It will improve the game tremendously - but...

The game could be twice as good in most areas, but* if the AI can still trip you up with impunity**, string 20 psychic first-time passes together with not even a hint of deviation from perfection, and all shots are thunderbolts - then what the hell will all of the improvements matter?

What's the point in buying new front tyres for your car when it's the back tyres that are flat? (Yes, I know we're talking about PES, not Gran Turismo...)

(That's not to mention the ML stuff that could potentially spoil it for me, such as 40-year-old legends joining my "youth" team.)

I don't want to play the game and think: "Oh wow, the dribbling is amazing, it's so natural This is a- er, did that AI player just throw my player onto the floor? I've not seen them give away a free kick yet - er, hang on, are they ever going to let me have the ball back now? This is exactly what was happening last year. I was sick of it then and I'm sick of it now. I'm absolutely gutted, how do I enjoy the new stuff now."

*The "but" IS JUST A "BUT" - I've not played the game! BUT rather than "shutting up" until the game is released, surely we should at least TRY to get this fear through to the devs. Even if none of it applies to 2018. All they can say is "we've worked on that so stop worrying you big sillyheads"... Right?

**I've been looking out for this in the videos and I've seen absolutely tons of terrible tackles ignored by the referee. Now that they've introduced this barge/shove thing, I fear it's going to be an even bigger problem. See below...

nicetoknwyou said:
Click to expand...
Chris Davies said:
Loads of obvious fouls are being ignored by the referee. At 4:34, that's a definite foul (and a weird animation). 8:14 is assault! The ball isn't bloody involved, he just barges the Liverpool player out of the way!
Click to expand...
 
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elfie said:
Great idea. Being a baseball player i buy MLB the show every year. They have online "vaults" to download sliders and rosters. There are a lot of classic rosters which enable you to pretty much play any season from history that you want.
And somehow there are no license issues (and USA are normally pretty strict about these things).
So an option file hub sounds amazing!
Click to expand...
I kind of overlooked that post from Chris, this is a great idea, really great...
 
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