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PES 2018 PlayStation & Xbox Discussion Thread

Chris Davies said:
The thing is, though - "masses" don't buy the game.

I don't mean that in a bitchy way - but when we talk about the game catering to the "masses", the only people buying PES, if we're honest, are guys 30 years old and up who remember the glory days
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I'm only 23 :( hahaha. I agree: they are searching for newer market more than the old fans. I think it's logical but very difficult to satisfy both of these fanbases: the old and the new.

EDIT: I just read everything from 2 pages 'till here. Yeah, I said something that everyone said before, sorry :P
 
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Yeah I end myself tweeting to that programmer from the PES Team and @officialpes since they actually respond. If it's anything about gameplay, tweet to twitter.com/tayan.
 
Never understand where people are coming from when they say any of the PS2 games were more sim or sim in any way.

At the time, they had far more depth than FIFA and that's about it. Yes, stats played a huge part but that's far easier when the whole thing is on rails. Those games are super fun and a great mix of frantically paced action with depth created by stats influence. They were well balanced too.

To suggest a game with 8 (was it?) directions, passes totally decided by the CPU, cut back goals, OP players like Adriano etc is sim is laughable. There are so many other things that if in now, would be slated.

Konami have struggled to capture what made those games great whilst trying to satisfy this idea of sim. Making the game more free and having less determined outcomes has been very difficult and you can see that with the keepers and how tied in they are to shooting.

The games we had will NEVER return. It's a different game and a different landscape.

Note, this doesn't mean I don't agree with lots of the feedback on here regarding 2018.
 
Here's some thought, NBA 2K sells about as good as it can being a single league. It's geared towards a more realistic than a unrealistic game design. MLB The Show is too, but that market isn't as big for baseball. FIFA is more realistic know than ten years ago. PES 2018 looks to be more realistic than 2017 and years ago. My whole point is as technology advances major sports titles will become more realistic. So all will be well.

EXAMPLE : PES 2018 has more realistic animations, player models, lighting, ball physics and shielding. Moving into a more realistic game.

Don't forget, there's more to a realistic game than just game-play. Visuals, sounds, ect: ect:
As technology advances, major sports titles will be forced to become more realistic.
 
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scholes1 said:
Never understand where people are coming from when they say any of the PS2 games were more sim or sim in any way.

At the time, they had far more depth than FIFA and that's about it. Yes, stats played a huge part but that's far easier when the whole thing is on rails. Those games are super fun and a great mix of frantically paced action with depth created by stats influence. They were well balanced too.

To suggest a game with 8 (was it?) directions, passes totally decided by the CPU, cut back goals, OP players like Adriano etc is sim is laughable. There are so many other things that if in now, would be slated.

Konami have struggled to capture what made those games great whilst trying to satisfy this idea of sim. Making the game more free and having less determined outcomes has been very difficult and you can see that with the keepers and how tied in they are to shooting.

The games we had will NEVER return. It's a different game and a different landscape.

Note, this doesn't mean I don't agree with lots of the feedback on here regarding 2018.
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but you should also take this into account, if they made a 4k HDR version of PES6 or PES5 it would probably outsell the current football games on consoles.
you can still find updated patches and files for these games even today.
downloaded a updated ps2 option file for PES 6 a month ago and i am really enjoying it.
what is the lifespan of football games nowadays?
PES5 and PES6 are still way up there.
Unbelievable!!
 
RAMAXWY said:
but you should also take this into account, if they made a 4k HDR version of PES6 or PES5 it would probably outsell the current football games on consoles.
you can still find updated patches and files for these games even today.
downloaded a updated ps2 option file for PES 6 a month ago and i am really enjoying it.
what is the lifespan of football games nowadays?
PES5 and PES6 are still way up there.
Unbelievable!!
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they should make a updated PES 5 with today's graphics, physics and call it PES 2018 Classic Addition. It would sell.
 
RAMAXWY said:
but you should also take this into account, if they made a 4k HDR version of PES6 or PES5 it would probably outsell the current football games on consoles.
you can still find updated patches and files for these games even today.
downloaded a updated ps2 option file for PES 6 a month ago and i am really enjoying it.
what is the lifespan of football games nowadays?
PES5 and PES6 are still way up there.
Unbelievable!!
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If it was released as a full game at full retail and sold to people without prior knowledge of the original games it would get PANNED. Released as a £25 PSN game marketed as a fun arcade title it'd do very well.

Remember just launching crosses to vieri who was never beaten in the air and scored headers for fun?

The way certain traits and stats were exaggerated made these things stand out and it WAS great until things moved forward.

I've tried playing the games since (I know lots of you do still) but the whole thing felt dated and restricted. Too many things from newer games I miss. The problem is nobody gets the feeling they did from PES 6, from next gen PES or FIFA. Whilst I'd argue they're better games, they're not pushing boundaries like PS2 PES did so the feeling is far less.
 
scholes1 said:
Never understand where people are coming from when they say any of the PS2 games were more sim or sim in any way.

At the time, they had far more depth than FIFA and that's about it. Yes, stats played a huge part but that's far easier when the whole thing is on rails. Those games are super fun and a great mix of frantically paced action with depth created by stats influence. They were well balanced too.

To suggest a game with 8 (was it?) directions, passes totally decided by the CPU, cut back goals, OP players like Adriano etc is sim is laughable. There are so many other things that if in now, would be slated.

Konami have struggled to capture what made those games great whilst trying to satisfy this idea of sim. Making the game more free and having less determined outcomes has been very difficult and you can see that with the keepers and how tied in they are to shooting.

The games we had will NEVER return. It's a different game and a different landscape.

Note, this doesn't mean I don't agree with lots of the feedback on here regarding 2018.
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I agree. I think it must be said though that the games that had limited directions, were actually easier to code and thus easier to accomplish the goal at hand.

While newer games have more directions, I think that just introduces more variables to more problems. More directions = more problems.
 
Matt10 said:
I agree. I think it must be said though that the games that had limited directions, were actually easier to code and thus easier to accomplish the goal at hand.

While newer games have more directions, I think that just introduces more variables to more problems. More directions = more problems.
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Absolutely, it's just futile comparing today's games with PS2 iterations. They're totally different beasts.
 
My PES story:),
I never played PES until 2010 i thought it was ok but not great so i played 11,12. Then switched to FIFA 12,13,14. Then back to PES 15,16,17.

Two years ago i tried PES 5,6. I understand why now PES is popular. They nailed the perfect recipe back then. Game developers were genius. But today Konami doesn't have genius developers. That intelligent level isn't there, hopefully it comes back.:PRAY:

So for somebody who's new to old PES, take my story as you wish.
 
Matt is right. 8 ways direction movement gave the game more simulation hence freedom. Sounds silly as it is but it was like a check game the pitch and u had to use ur players on the rails with certain abilities very well to move forward, pass, score. It was also easier to defend.

Nowdays the 360 degrees dribbling gives too much freedom, have too much animation, so no room for simulation but much more for error. Developers have much harder time to code today.
 
Podcast up. Couldn't get to all questions on there from you so will answer in forums. Podcast was just running too long its over 3 hrs!
 
scholes1 said:
Absolutely, it's just futile comparing today's games with PS2 iterations. They're totally different beasts.
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true, but comparing the level of development isn't. This is all that matters game developer talent. That 2005 level isn't seen today because PES 2017 will be deleted when 2018 comes. Most likely.

Even with less money very intelligent game developers make great games.
 
gabe.paul.logan said:
Matt is right. 8 ways direction movement gave the game more simulation hence freedom. Sounds silly as it is but it was like a check game the pitch and u had to use ur players on the rails with certain abilities very well to move forward, pass, score. It was also easier to defend.

Nowdays the 360 degrees dribbling gives too much freedom, have too much animation, so no room for simulation but much more for error. Developers have much harder time to code today.
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true but they also have better tools today. I see great development today with NBA 2K. Again it's all about the developers. Are they smarter than a bear or genius level like Hideo Kojima is.

They are the ones who decide if improved first touch is more important than improved faces.
 
scholes1 said:
If it was released as a full game at full retail and sold to people without prior knowledge of the original games it would get PANNED. Released as a £25 PSN game marketed as a fun arcade title it'd do very well.

Remember just launching crosses to vieri who was never beaten in the air and scored headers for fun?

The way certain traits and stats were exaggerated made these things stand out and it WAS great until things moved forward.

I've tried playing the games since (I know lots of you do still) but the whole thing felt dated and restricted. Too many things from newer games I miss. The problem is nobody gets the feeling they did from PES 6, from next gen PES or FIFA. Whilst I'd argue they're better games, they're not pushing boundaries like PS2 PES did so the feeling is far less.
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It may feel dated and restricted, But it still had balanced fouls, great tactical options,Better career modes,Varied gameplay and even better goalkeeprs than the last 3 PES iterations.

We are in 2017 and we're still unsure if we'll see fouls, Proper career mode or even One on ones with penalties committed by goalies who are glued to their lines!!...What's the excuse?

This thread is talking about faces and stadiums when the game is basically a glorified ipad game that cannot even get close to basic features we had 20 years ago!

Wake up people!!
 
PES 2017 is it bad keepers or bad defenders ?
From what i see my keeper (example Arsenal ) gets stops and some good ones, but my defenders differ to make a challenge turn back and move out of the way of shoots. I think the AI defending is worse than the goalies. Just from what iv'e seen.
 
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gabe.paul.logan said:
Matt is right. 8 ways direction movement gave the game more simulation hence freedom. Sounds silly as it is but it was like a check game the pitch and u had to use ur players on the rails with certain abilities very well to move forward, pass, score. It was also easier to defend.

Nowdays the 360 degrees dribbling gives too much freedom, have too much animation, so no room for simulation but much more for error. Developers have much harder time to code today.
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It was but it meant it was harder to attack and scoring carried more weight. I'd love to see Konami go down that route again because the challenge was the fun part.
 
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Matt10 said:
I agree. I think it must be said though that the games that had limited directions, were actually easier to code and thus easier to accomplish the goal at hand.

While newer games have more directions, I think that just introduces more variables to more problems. More directions = more problems.
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yep.. ability to go full manual = more potential problems.. so much more in terms of variables and difficulty coding.
What is amazing though, is that when I go back to pes 5 (actually we9LE) and pes6, I still really enjoy playing this game regardless of the auto passing and shooting. Both games have a tremendous BALANCE to them, particularly between the ability to defend compared to ability to attack. Defending was much easier often meaning closer results, and individuality was so extreme particularly in pes6, which really made it a joy to play.
Despite some of its short comings, pes2017 was the game that finally stopped me going back to pes5 and 6. Being a full manual player, I truly believe we are now at the stage where things will only get better.. I'm still very optimistic re pes2018 in terms of realism, regardless of the e3 movie clips we have seen. Hoping there is a new code to see during this world tour which starts tomorrow, and hoping it not only feels realistic to those who get a chance to play it, BUT ALSO LOOKS REALISTIC (IN TERMS OF GAMEPLAY AND PLAYER POSITIONING) to those observing the movie streams.

Can I say, going back to pes2014 on ps3, I had a few hours last night... lacks response yeah, but honestly the most sim-like version of pes I reckon... still enjoy it :)
 
I've already said that both the evolution to manual and to online gaming have killed the game.
There is something i don't understand (and having studied Japanese and Japan, i think it's typical for Japanese people) there is a certain stuborness in the development team of PES.

Much of the problems that annoy us could be solved by more customization, NBA2K is the best example of what a game can achieve with customization. I like basketball but i will never be a hardcore fan of the sport. NBA2K like it is out of the box is too difficult to me. So the first thing i do is customize the game with the sliders and in the end i have a fun game that is realistic enough for me. I'm pretty sure that some hardcore basketball freaks like drekkard and the guys who are in the game's thread constantly would not like the way i play it, but they change less and it's a pretty ok game for them too (although i'm well aware that they are complaining too).

This is not only the case for gameplay, but also for the game modes.

Why can't Konami do this?
Gameplaywise: you should be able to customise the degree of manual play. I would like to see return the real one bar pass, i.e. almost manual but not full manual. In PES217 there was no difference between one bar and the other pass settings...

In the set-up of the modes: allow people more choice in things like transfer frequency for CPU teams, playing with regens or not (this ruïns ML for lots of people).

If Konami would learn from NBA2K, on customisation, then i'm sure lots of people who are complaining now would be more happy.

About Adam Bhatti and his reactions on Tweets (and i'm absolutely not talking about his reaction to PES Russia), frankly i can understand him. Some people now are longing for Seabass, they want him back. After the game after PES6 (was it PES2008), there were literally people on this forum who wrote that they wished he should get cancer... Bhatti claims he already got death threats. Some people say he exagerates, but to be honest, i believe him. The way some "fans" react...
 
DCuf8YhXUAA0bxL.jpg:large

Player models are so much better
 
scholes1 said:
Never understand where people are coming from when they say any of the PS2 games were more sim or sim in any way. [...] The games we had will NEVER return. It's a different game and a different landscape.
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Yeah, I fell for it too. Back in the day I would define PES 6 and (to a greater extent) PES 5 as realistic games. They were so, to some extent, because they used to realistically recreate the emotions of a football match.
Joy suddenly turning into pain when London FC's Drogba (oh wait, Chelsea was licensed back then) would shatter your glory dreams in the stoppage time with a screamer, or the excitement when Vieri would win that aerial challenge you was desperately trying to achieve and smash it past the keeper (keepers which, by the way, were great for the time but would feel a little outdated now).

Given the tech available at the time, I see why they couldn't be also realistic in terms of movement/freedom though.
At least, definitely not "realistic" as we mean it now (a game in which players run in 8 directions, 16 when dashing, cannot be realistic by definition), but realistic enough in terms of capturing the feelings of a football match to have all of us hooked I presume.
The most recent PES games made huge leaps forward towards realism (PES 2014 anyone?) but somehow lack that 'magic' that kept us hooked, that's why we all miss the PS2-era games.

scholes1 said:
I've tried playing the games since (I know lots of you do still) but the whole thing felt dated and restricted. Too many things from newer games I miss. The problem is nobody gets the feeling they did from PES 6, from next gen PES or FIFA.
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Absolutely spot-on. Even the acclaimed goalkeepers of PES 5 and 6 feel a little dated now compared to the PES 2017 ones, and by no means I would go back to 8-way movement in a 2017 game. I still play PES 5 and PES 6 (and also PES 4 sometimes) just to feel that 'magic' once again, but I know they're now utterly dated.

aussiepesfan said:
What is amazing though, is that when I go back to pes 5 (actually we9LE) and pes6, I still really enjoy playing this game regardless of the auto passing and shooting. Both games have a tremendous BALANCE to them, particularly between the ability to defend compared to ability to attack. Defending was much easier often meaning closer results, and individuality was so extreme particularly in pes6, which really made it a joy to play.
[...] Can I say, going back to pes2014 on ps3, I had a few hours last night... lacks response yeah, but honestly the most sim-like version of pes I reckon... still enjoy it :)
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I agree about PES 2014 being the most simulative one, thus probably the least fun to play for the majority of the people. And I also agree about PES 5 and 6: they were pretty balanced and, despite the technical limitations of that time, they were sheer fun to play with. This doesn't mean they were simulations though (I repeat it: a game in which players can only run in 8 directions and dash in 16 isn't really a 'sim' in my eyes. It was just the closest to a 'sim' we could get back then probably).
 
Yea this is how I see it:

It's not about PES going the sim route that hurts their sales. It's that they don't do Sim WELL.

There isn't a more sim or in-depth game than 2k. Shoot, their offline modes are as indepth as their "ultimate team" and theyve also found a way to incooporate monetary profits for their offline modes through VC. The Show has to market freakin baseball and they still sell copies and have the most fanbase who thoroughly enjoy each game. Madden has been struggling to regain respect after their best and likely most in-depth game in 05. They're finally picking up that momentum. Why? Because Madden's becoming a good-ass, realistic game again. Penalties, inaccurate qb's, etc.

Pes' lack of licenses will always hurt sales, but a easy edit mode and miles better gameplay would attract many. Fifa's fanbase is always annoyed with perceived halfassed efforts in recent years. They're willing to try something new, Pes just has to shock them, like when 2k overtook NBA Live.
 
..btw, Adam did mentioned on twitter that the world tour will be using the e3 code. Apparently, only recently (few days ago) Adam did mention that the newer code he tried, did have more varied shooting.. more contextual, I think his words were. I was under the impression this was a more updated code than e3. Not sure???

Also, Adam did mention a few hours ago, that he spoke with one of the main programmers at Konami, who mentioned this years version will be more simulation, and a slower paced version of pes. This kinda talk really gets me excited.

Again, I apologise to some for rambling on about pes2014, but I do think this game was the most simulated version of football ever... I just couldn't play full manual properly due to the poor response times.. had to play automatic on level 1 setting... which wasn't nearly as ultra assisted as it is today. The animations were great (love those little steps when you let go of the direction stick as you approach a defender), hardly any skating, and the ball physics were truly amazing...and of course there were great midfield battles. Sorta what we missed big time in pes2017. Yes, low response and things like catch-up bug did fk things up for pes14, but still it is very playable particularly winning eleven 2014 aoki samurai no chousen (slight improvement in response). Also, I actually still have that leaked pes2014 demo version on ps3... which I think was the best version ever.

Back to pes2018, although I'm pretty sure that pes2018's animations wont be as simlike in transition and pace as pes14 (judging by e3 footage), i am pretty optimistic that pes18 may be the closest thing to sim in regards to playing full manual and having a good response time. Hearing about the slower pace, and stories of more contextual first touch/trapping shooting errors would turn this into an absolute beast of a game. Its what pes14 (despite its simlike qualities) was missing....

Absolutely cannot wait for the upcoming days, and for the true sim fans giving the ai a go, and giving feedback on how this beast plays...
 
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