PES 2018 PlayStation & Xbox Discussion Thread

[Bond!JamesBond!]

1:15
look how much open space to pass, why is Borussia Dortmund defender so close to middle field.

 

[Deco]

1:15
look how much open space to pass, why is Borussia Dortmund defender so close to middle field.

Space . . .the final frontier.

 

[Topaz]

1:15
look how much open space to pass, why is Borussia Dortmund defender so close to middle field.

So that you can easily make passes that can split open defense(well defense is already split open even without making the pass)

 

[Matt10]

Surprised nobody is discussing this - video of human v superstar AI has been released by Next Gen Blog.

It's my favourite video so far, though A) it's weird how the AI keeps backing off (though it could be the tactics), and B)...

3:05 OUTRAGES me. Several times beforehand you see the power bar appear above the human player's head, trying to perform a pass, and the AI manages to throw a last-ditch block in. 3:05, the shoot button is pressed, and it's ignored so that the defender can recover the ball - you can say "he needs to get his body in position to shoot", but he's running free towards the goal. In reality he's getting a shot off 100 times out of 100. Tons of similar instances too.

Apart from that, I think it looks brilliant (genuinely)... Much more human-feeling AI.

Finally, we disagree on something . I hated this video. Spaces aren't being occupied at all, no sense of pressure to perform. Play the ball wide, no closing down rate. I could go on. It's defensive 3rd to defensive 3rd. No midfield play whatsoever. Granted you could blame the P1 in their long driven pass attempts, but the AI is doing the same thing. There is no actual build up from either team.

I'm still hopeful, boy I sound like a broken record though, but I hope they somewhat consider looking at the lack of passing lanes being cut off. The reason a ball should go side to side is because there are passing lanes being cut off. It seems back to being wore down versus broken down.

I'm holding out hope for the sheer fact that this is an early build and guys couldn't play longer than 10 min matches.

****

Thanks everyone for watching my PES 3 stream. It's amazing what a positional difference it was. Yes there is space, but it's not so end-to-end because the 1) passing lanes are attempted to be covered and 2) the close down rate is exceptional, which puts pressure to perform to the nth degree!

Las

 

[curdstar]

I watched some of Matt's PES3 gameplay and while I have no doubt if I went to back to play it again I would have fun, there would equally be no doubt, at all, that I would appreciate just how much has progressed in the genre in the 15 years since 2003.

The best PS2 PES' are still good games, but there are very much products of their time, and I feel that every time I have had a go of them. I'm also happy enough to admit that nostalgia washes over me when I do play them and that contributes massively to my enjoyment of them all these years later. If I played them without that feeling of nostalgia, without my muscle memory of them, I reckon that I would find the games to be hot steaming piss.

You want to know why I think these games endure to some extent? Why I think people think they are more realistic? Camera angle. That simple. The camera is tighter in the PS2 games and is in 4:3 aspect ratio too; simply put, it is a case of less being more. Thing us, I can do the same/similar with PES2015, PES2016, PES2017 and will also be able to do so in PES2018, to a degree that I actually can get a better tighter view of the action.

Serious question: how many folk here actually go and watch professional football with any regularity? If you do, why do you find yourself screaming out instructions to your players throughout the match, or bemoan their decision making? I'll tell you why, it is because of your perspective.

I do go to football matches fairly regularly at a number of levels in the professional sport as I have the luxury of having a mate who is player agent, so he gets complimentary tickets by players on his books, and it is the same everywhere I go. I love watching the game, and also know that if I or others in attendance make a comment on the action or a players decision making we do so from a disconnected perspective. We see space everywhere, regardless of the level the sport is being played. I am often elevated, looking over the action. I simply need to move my head left or right in order to see space, while a player out there on the field doesn't have that advantage. The dynamic/wide-cams used in these games give a player far too much of an advantage. IN fact, they are often positioned higher than that found in most broadcasts from stadiums the world over, so you get to see even more than what you would from broadcasts, never mind actually being at the match.

Another serious question(s): how many players set the camera to be more representative of how the game looked in the PS2 days? How many zoom it in a fair amount, or lower the height so as the 16:9 ratio, while still giving some benefits/improvement, isn't giving you a massive advantage?

I have played PES2017 more frequently than I have played any football from the last 10 years, and the reason I keep coming back to it is that playing from a tighter perspective and also me being able to adjust settings so as just a wee bit more is demanded of me (Advanced Shooting) sees the gameplay at its absolute best for me. It is not perfect, but it more than scratches an itch.

So all that above is exactly why I pay very little attention to comments about positioning and alike regards these videos. Not only are these comments based on watching and seeing space, much like it is when I go to watch a match, but the simple fact is that the space we can clearly see is something we can totally home in on, and not see it as we would when playing the game, where it is more in our peripheral vision, but again the further the camera sits up and out from the action the easier the game will be to play, and that isn't exclusive to PES2018, but more or less every single football game from the 16:9 HD era.

I don't envy the developers of either game when it comes to what they need to try do, year in, year out; trying to balance out and offer a challenge to a user when the viewpoint is such that it allows them to get a best of both worlds in that they can see/sense more of the space available to them, and actually can look to exploit it.

The videos from the last 24/48 hours have been excellent. The more videos I see the more satisfied I find myself, all while knowing that the first thing I do when I get my hands on the game is change the camera from the dynamic wide one, and select Advanced Shooting, so my experience will be even more unrelatable to the videos I have watched thus far for a game I, obviously, haven't actually played.

You could code these games to be more stats driven; code in near flawless positional awareness; so long as that camera sits high and wide you will always see/sense the space and always be able to take advantage of it. If you are a football fan, you will be hard wired to do exactly that, and that is why I, personally, find dynamic wide camera play annoying. Bring that camera in so as there is less information that can be seen on the screen, then you are, as best as a game can possibly do currently, getting closer to that claustrophobic feeling you can sometimes feel when actually playing the sport

 

[sando]

thx

 

[ianni]

I watched some of Matt's PES3 gameplay and while I have no doubt if I went to back to play it again I would have fun, there would equally be no doubt, at all, that I would appreciate just how much has progressed in the genre in the 15 years since 2003.

The best PS2 PES' are still good games, but there are very much products of their time, and I feel that every time I have had a go of them. I'm also happy enough to admit that nostalgia washes over me when I do play them and that contributes massively to my enjoyment of them all these years later. If I played them without that feeling of nostalgia, without my muscle memory of them, I reckon that I would find the games to be hot steaming piss.

You want to know why I think these games endure to some extent? Why I think people think they are more realistic? Camera angle. That simple. The camera is tighter in the PS2 games and is in 4:3 aspect ratio too; simply put, it is a case of less being more. Thing us, I can do the same/similar with PES2015, PES2016, PES2017 and will also be able to do so in PES2018, to a degree that I actually can get a better tighter view of the action.

Serious question: how many folk here actually go and watch professional football with any regularity? If you do, why do you find yourself screaming out instructions to your players throughout the match, or bemoan their decision making? I'll tell you why, it is because of your perspective.

I do go to football matches fairly regularly at a number of levels in the professional sport as I have the luxury of having a mate who is player agent, so he gets complimentary tickets by players on his books, and it is the same everywhere I go. I love watching the game, and also know that if I or others in attendance make a comment on the action or a players decision making we do so from a disconnected perspective. We see space everywhere, regardless of the level the sport is being played. I am often elevated, looking over the action. I simply need to move my head left or right in order to see space, while a player out there on the field doesn't have that advantage. The dynamic/wide-cams used in these games give a player far too much of an advantage. IN fact, they are often positioned higher than that found in most broadcasts from stadiums the world over, so you get to see even more than what you would from broadcasts, never mind actually being at the match.

Another serious question(s): how many players set the camera to be more representative of how the game looked in the PS2 days? How many zoom it in a fair amount, or lower the height so as the 16:9 ratio, while still giving some benefits/improvement, isn't giving you a massive advantage?

I have played PES2017 more frequently than I have played any football from the last 10 years, and the reason I keep coming back to it is that playing from a tighter perspective and also me being able to adjust settings so as just a wee bit more is demanded of me (Advanced Shooting) sees the gameplay at its absolute best for me. It is not perfect, but it more than scratches an itch.

So all that above is exactly why I pay very little attention to comments about positioning and alike regards these videos. Not only are these comments based on watching and seeing space, much like it is when I go to watch a match, but the simple fact is that the space we can clearly see is something we can totally home in on, and not see it as we would when playing the game, where it is more in our peripheral vision, but again the further the camera sits up and out from the action the easier the game will be to play, and that isn't exclusive to PES2018, but more or less every single football game from the 16:9 HD era.

I don't envy the developers of either game when it comes to what they need to try do, year in, year out; trying to balance out and offer a challenge to a user when the viewpoint is such that it allows them to get a best of both worlds in that they can see/sense more of the space available to them, and actually can look to exploit it.

The videos from the last 24/48 hours have been excellent. The more videos I see the more satisfied I find myself, all while knowing that the first thing I do when I get my hands on the game is change the camera from the dynamic wide one, and select Advanced Shooting, so my experience will be even more unrelatable to the videos I have watched thus far for a game I, obviously, haven't actually played.

You could code these games to be more stars driven; code in near flawless positional awareness; so long as that camera sits high and wide you will always see/sense the space and always be able to take advantage of it. If you are a football fan, you will be hard wired to do exactly that, and that is why I, personally, find dynamic wide camera play annoying. Bring that camera in so as there is less information that can be seen on the screen, then you are, as best as a game can possibly do currently, getting closer to that claustrophobic feeling you can sometimes feel when actually playing the sport

I love you. What settings do you use for the camera? I hope I can set it up on my PES 2017 PC and get that claustrophobic feeling ^^. Thanks!!!

 

[spektarm]

You want to know why I think these games endure to some extent? Why I think people think they are more realistic? Camera angle. That simple. The camera is tighter in the PS2 games and is in 4:3 aspect ratio too; simply put, it is a case of less being more. Thing us, I can do the same/similar with PES2015, PES2016, PES2017 and will also be able to do so in PES2018, to a degree that I actually can get a better tighter view of the action.

Another serious question(s): how many players set the camera to be more representative of how the game looked in the PS2 days? How many zoom it in a fair amount, or lower the height so as the 16:9 ratio, while still giving some benefits/improvement, isn't giving you a massive advantage?

Positioning has nothing to do with perspective.

First, look at the screenshot a few posts above yours. If that happens in any match at a professional level, it's a goal 9 out of 10 times - be it Barca or Aston Villa having that space. It doesn't matter if you're a fan looking from the stands, from a TV screen, or a player actually performing on the pitch - the spaces we see on quite a lot of those videos from PES are going to be exploited regardless.

Another thing is, your statement about the older PES games is incorrect. There are camera mods which can zoom out the camera and do what you want with it, basically, so you can have any perspective you want. The fact of the matter is, there just isn't this much space available. Don't know how they did it back then, but it's baffling to me how games like PES 3 and WE9LE had proper midfield lines, proper covering, etc. Furthermore, there is also so much space to be exploited in PES 2017 even when I've played in the Player camera. So it's not that, believe me.

My guess is that they refuse to address the positioning issues, because a game where it's too difficult to score won't sell. Simple as that.
Imagine the horror when a certain kind of player can't score because the teams are set up properly, and they aren't one to think when they play, nor do they have the footballing knowledge or thinking to break a team down... /s

 

[curdstar]

I love you. What settings do you use for the camera? I hope I can set it up on my PES 2017 PC and get that claustrophobic feeling ^^. Thanks!!!

I select pitchside camera and then select 3,0,10 at the moment. Yes, I can still see the apace on the wings, but I see less of the space behind the player and the low height means I don't see as much space in the central areas of the field.

 

[Ameppe]

I'm still hopeful, boy I sound like a broken record though, but I hope they somewhat consider looking at the lack of passing lanes being cut off. The reason a ball should go side to side is because there are passing lanes being cut off. It seems back to being wore down versus broken down.

Las

Could you make a video example (even from a real match) because i feel like i don't understand what you are saying about the lack of passing lanes being cut off. I know you have more experience than me having edited gameplay for years, in Fifa and Pes.

It's always great to learn new things.

 

[Topaz]

1:15
look how much open space to pass, why is Borussia Dortmund defender so close to middle field.

 

[curdstar]

Positioning has nothing to do with perspective.

First, look at the screenshot a few posts above yours. If that happens in any match at a professional level, it's a goal 9 out of 10 times - be it Barca or Aston Villa having that space. It doesn't matter if you're a fan looking from the stands, from a TV screen, or a player actually performing on the pitch - the spaces we see on quite a lot of those videos from PES are going to be exploited regardless.

Another thing is, your statement about the older PES games is incorrect. There are camera mods which can zoom out the camera and do what you want with it, basically, so you can have any perspective you want. The fact of the matter is, there just isn't this much space available. Don't know how they did it back then, but it's baffling to me how games like PES 3 and WE9LE had proper midfield lines, proper covering, etc. Furthermore, there is also so much space to be exploited in PES 2017 even when I've played in the Player camera. So it's not that, believe me.

My guess is that they refuse to address the positioning issues, because a difficult game won't sell. Simple as that.
Imagine the horror when a certain kind of player can't score because the teams are set up properly, and they aren't one to think when they play, nor do they have the footballing knowledge or thinking to break a team down... /s

9/10 it would be a goal in the real sport? Nonsense! Complete and utter hyperbole. Why? Because I see similar situations like that all the time in football, across every level. Players don't see the space the way I see it because of perspective, plain and simple.

I'm completely done talking about positioning in videos though, because it is pointless. I'm done with it as much as I am done with playing PES3, PES5, PES6, FIFA09, World Cup 2010 or PES2013. I'll happily discuss positioning and alike after playing the game, but so far as discussing it now goes, it would be just like me sitting high and central in the main stand when attending a match. I need to experience how any positioning strengths/weaknesses manifest playing the game, and playing it using my own settings. That space is less obvious when my focus is on control. It actually needs to be, or they won't be "simulating" very well.

PS - everything that is demanded mentally of a player to be exceptional in control, decision making and execution in the real sport is not entirely dissimilar to that which is required to excel at an arcade game. Arcade can be simulation, in other words. Only saying this to illustrate how completely redundant the words "arcade" and "simulation" are in these discussions, or should be.

 

[Deco]

I select pitchside camera and then select 3,0,10 at the moment. Yes, I can still see the apace on the wings, but I see less of the space behind the player and the low height means I don't see as much space in the central areas of the field.

Curdstar I get what you're saying .. .the footage from your matches I have used myself. . .do you think that using a wider camera angle is giving the user an advantage when playing? An advantage over what exactly? We're not playing the game from a one player on the pitch perspective .. .I actually like to see where the other players on the pitch are . . are we not using a lot of assumptions as to where the rest of the team could or should be if we use a close camera?... How can you see a forward making a run as in hitting a runner with a long ball.? . .I wouldn't consider a wide camera angle as an advantage.

 

[geeeeee]

I watched some of Matt's PES3 gameplay and while I have no doubt if I went to back to play it again I would have fun, there would equally be no doubt, at all, that I would appreciate just how much has progressed in the genre in the 15 years since 2003.

The best PS2 PES' are still good games, but there are very much products of their time, and I feel that every time I have had a go of them. I'm also happy enough to admit that nostalgia washes over me when I do play them and that contributes massively to my enjoyment of them all these years later. If I played them without that feeling of nostalgia, without my muscle memory of them, I reckon that I would find the games to be hot steaming piss.

You want to know why I think these games endure to some extent? Why I think people think they are more realistic? Camera angle. That simple. The camera is tighter in the PS2 games and is in 4:3 aspect ratio too; simply put, it is a case of less being more. Thing us, I can do the same/similar with PES2015, PES2016, PES2017 and will also be able to do so in PES2018, to a degree that I actually can get a better tighter view of the action.

Serious question: how many folk here actually go and watch professional football with any regularity? If you do, why do you find yourself screaming out instructions to your players throughout the match, or bemoan their decision making? I'll tell you why, it is because of your perspective.

I do go to football matches fairly regularly at a number of levels in the professional sport as I have the luxury of having a mate who is player agent, so he gets complimentary tickets by players on his books, and it is the same everywhere I go. I love watching the game, and also know that if I or others in attendance make a comment on the action or a players decision making we do so from a disconnected perspective. We see space everywhere, regardless of the level the sport is being played. I am often elevated, looking over the action. I simply need to move my head left or right in order to see space, while a player out there on the field doesn't have that advantage. The dynamic/wide-cams used in these games give a player far too much of an advantage. IN fact, they are often positioned higher than that found in most broadcasts from stadiums the world over, so you get to see even more than what you would from broadcasts, never mind actually being at the match.

Another serious question(s): how many players set the camera to be more representative of how the game looked in the PS2 days? How many zoom it in a fair amount, or lower the height so as the 16:9 ratio, while still giving some benefits/improvement, isn't giving you a massive advantage?

I have played PES2017 more frequently than I have played any football from the last 10 years, and the reason I keep coming back to it is that playing from a tighter perspective and also me being able to adjust settings so as just a wee bit more is demanded of me (Advanced Shooting) sees the gameplay at its absolute best for me. It is not perfect, but it more than scratches an itch.

So all that above is exactly why I pay very little attention to comments about positioning and alike regards these videos. Not only are these comments based on watching and seeing space, much like it is when I go to watch a match, but the simple fact is that the space we can clearly see is something we can totally home in on, and not see it as we would when playing the game, where it is more in our peripheral vision, but again the further the camera sits up and out from the action the easier the game will be to play, and that isn't exclusive to PES2018, but more or less every single football game from the 16:9 HD era.

I don't envy the developers of either game when it comes to what they need to try do, year in, year out; trying to balance out and offer a challenge to a user when the viewpoint is such that it allows them to get a best of both worlds in that they can see/sense more of the space available to them, and actually can look to exploit it.

The videos from the last 24/48 hours have been excellent. The more videos I see the more satisfied I find myself, all while knowing that the first thing I do when I get my hands on the game is change the camera from the dynamic wide one, and select Advanced Shooting, so my experience will be even more unrelatable to the videos I have watched thus far for a game I, obviously, haven't actually played.

You could code these games to be more stats driven; code in near flawless positional awareness; so long as that camera sits high and wide you will always see/sense the space and always be able to take advantage of it. If you are a football fan, you will be hard wired to do exactly that, and that is why I, personally, find dynamic wide camera play annoying. Bring that camera in so as there is less information that can be seen on the screen, then you are, as best as a game can possibly do currently, getting closer to that claustrophobic feeling you can sometimes feel when actually playing the sport

Good post

Ive used your settings on PES2017 and it has improved the game.

But at the moment i am using similar settings on PES2014 and i am really enjoying it!

Thanks

 

[curdstar]

Curdstar I get what you're saying .. .the footage from your matches I have used myself. . .do you think that using a wider camera angle is giving the user an advantage when playing? An advantage over what exactly? We're not playing the game from a one player on the pitch perspective .. .I actually like to see where the other players on the pitch are . . are we not using a lot of assumptions as to where the rest of the team could or should be if we use a close camera?... How can you see a forward making a run as in hitting a runner with a long ball.? . .I wouldn't consider a wide camera angle as an advantage.

A few seasons ago (2013) my mate gave me his ticket for the Celtic v. Barcelona match. It was on the halfway line and at the front of the second tier. Everyone around me was getting more and more frustrated due to decision making, all because they could see what I could see. Space everywhere. What looked like viable passing options everywhere.

But as you and I know it simply isn't like that when you are in amongst it, so what I want from a camera and a football videogame in general is something that gets the balance just right. In order to do that I need it to be a little more restrictive in order to get that more claustrophobic feeling the player in possession can have, while it also doing a decent job of "looking like tele" for me.

So when I watch videos from a high and wide camera setting I just see that space everywhere, regardless of the game, and can look to exploit it far more easily than I can if I am setting it lower and more tight, when I actually play it. When I have it lower and tighter, I am actually having to make assumptions, but the more I play and get to know my team and its players the more that muscle memory kicks in; the more it feels like playing as part of a well oiled machine of a team. You hear it all the time in commentary and can see it yourself when watching the sport: players knocking about blindly and into spaces that they know their teammate will be, or should be occupying or moving into.

The other benefit, the other thing that I find replicates being on the ball with the settings I currently use, is not being able to see directly behind me that easily when on the ball, as when in possession the camera shifts to show you more of what lies in front of the player, towards the opposition goal, than what it shows behind them. It isn't perfect, but it is currently proving the best solution for me.

 

[Deco]

Finally, we disagree on something . I hated this video. Spaces aren't being occupied at all, no sense of pressure to perform. Play the ball wide, no closing down rate. I could go on. It's defensive 3rd to defensive 3rd. No midfield play whatsoever. Granted you could blame the P1 in their long driven pass attempts, but the AI is doing the same thing. There is no actual build up from either team.

I'm still hopeful, boy I sound like a broken record though, but I hope they somewhat consider looking at the lack of passing lanes being cut off. The reason a ball should go side to side is because there are passing lanes being cut off. It seems back to being wore down versus broken down.

I'm holding out hope for the sheer fact that this is an early build and guys couldn't play longer than 10 min matches.

****

Thanks everyone for watching my PES 3 stream. It's amazing what a positional difference it was. Yes there is space, but it's not so end-to-end because the 1) passing lanes are attempted to be covered and 2) the close down rate is exceptional, which puts pressure to perform to the nth degree!

Las

Matt I'm not trying to be a smartass with you but obviously you and your mate Isureaper like to play a certain style of football. . I've watched enough of both of your videos. .. .the two of you play quite similar with a pass around slow build up which never changes .. . I like to vary the way that I approach a match and play it and adapt accordingly. . . it's very one dimensional the way that you both play. .why do you subscribe to this rigid type of football? There's no adventure in it. . .I couldn't stick to the same formula the way that you two do .. .every match looks and plays the same .. .if it suits yourselves fair enough .. .but personally I like playing a bit more creative and unpredictable.

 

[ianni]

I just finished a ML match on Superstar, Advanced Shooting and curdstar's camera settings. Whoah. Looks like a different game. I like to play Guardiola style with Real Madrid and just played versus Basel and, oh boy, just until min 73 I couldn't score 2 goals xD. You just need to be more careful when making passes and all that, because of the camera.

 

[Deco]

A few seasons ago (2013) my mate gave me his ticket for the Celtic v. Barcelona match. It was on the halfway line and at the front of the second tier. Everyone around me was getting more and more frustrated due to decision making, all because they could see what I could see. Space everywhere. What looked like viable passing options everywhere.

But as you and I know it simply isn't like that when you are in amongst it, so what I want from a camera and a football videogame in general is something that gets the balance just right. In order to do that I need it to be a little more restrictive in order to get that more claustrophobic feeling the player in possession can have, while it also doing a decent job of "looking like tele" for me.

So when I watch videos from a high and wide camera setting I just see that space everywhere, regardless of the game, and can look to exploit it far more easily than I can if I am setting it lower and more tight, when I actually play it. When I have it lower and tighter, I am actually having to make assumptions, but the more I play and get to know my team and its players the more that muscle memory kicks in; the more it feels like playing as part of a well oiled machine of a team. You hear it all the time in commentary and can see it yourself when watching the sport: players knocking about blindly and into spaces that they know their teammate will be, or should be occupying or moving into.

The other benefit, the other thing that I find replicates being on the ball with the settings I currently use, is not being able to see directly behind me that easily when on the ball, as when in possession the camera shifts to show you more of what lies in front of the player, towards the opposition goal, than what it shows behind them. It isn't perfect, but it is currently proving the best solution for me.

That's fair enough Curdstar but I don't agree with the blindly hitting a ball into empty space especially using manual. . . .I actually think it can be more unpredictable and encourages creativity as you have more options but a short time to choose an option of which pass to choose. . whereas when you are in a small controlled space there are only a couple of obvious options to use which I feel is safer . .less chance of making a mess of things. . but each to their own .. .I certainly don't subscribe to having the best team and the best players to win a match which I don't believe you do either. .. but seeing where the players are on the pitch has to be done as I am trying to control the whole team and open up the defence of a far superior team most of the time.

 

[Matt10]

Matt I'm not trying to be a smartass with you but obviously you and your mate Isureaper like to play a certain style of football. . I've watched enough of both of your videos. .. .the two of you play quite similar with a pass around slow build up which never changes .. . I like to vary the way that I approach a match and play it and adapt accordingly. . . it's very one dimensional the way that you both play. .why do you subscribe to this rigid type of football? There's no adventure in it. . .I couldn't stick to the same formula the way that you two do .. .every match looks and plays the same .. .if it suits yourselves fair enough .. .but personally I like playing a bit more creative and unpredictable.

Uhhh...where did this come from? There is no comment on how I play? I don't think that should matter when I'm concerned about positioning.

 

[Deco]

Uhhh...where did this come from? There is no comment on how I play? I don't think that should matter when I'm concerned about positioning.

Matt I'm not trying to start an argument with you buddy.. .I'm just commenting on an observation about your style of play. . which is based on the positioning which you always point out. .I'm not criticising the way that you play. . but it seems to be the way that you enjoy football to be played, no?

 

[curdstar]

I am going to post up a goal I scored on myClub a couple of nights ago. You can all dissect it to your heart's content and I appreciate the irony that I am using the dynamic wide cam, but myClub/online play unfortunately feels like it demands me to use it to find myself on a more even footing with my opponent. Lag, however slight, is going to be a factor too. I would love to be able to customise the camera to how I set it offline in online play, and maybe for a league to be set-up among like-minded players.

PA1 passing and advanced shooting used.

The thing I want you all to think about, while taking the goal, the positioning or whatever completely apart piece by piece, is how I felt at the time after scoring it, along with where my focus was in creating it. Just how much do you think I was getting concerned about player positioning? If there are issues, does that mean everything I felt about the goal is completely invalidated?


I watch that and know it is mine; know where my focus was and just how in tune I was feeling with my players thanks to me...well, y'know, actually participating and not simply watching.

 

[Matt10]

One real quick comment, and sorry should have said this earlier. Analyzing these 5-10 minute matches are not ideal, so that's a huge reason I am not holding completely firm on anything. I'm just merely commenting on what I see that looks out of sorts. I think/hope it's by design relative to the chosen minutes of match time. That's my biggest hope right now.

 

[Matt10]

Matt I'm not trying to start an argument with you buddy.. .I'm just commenting on an observation about your style of play. . which is based on the positioning which you always point out. .I'm not criticising the way that you play. . but it seems to be the way that you enjoy football to be played, no?

Oh sure, I just didn't see how it was relevant. I think I tend to mix it up quite a bit. I don't stream or show full matches often, most of the time, a blessing and curse, I'm looking at the positioning. As a result, I move the ball to see what their defensive shape looks like.

My issues are the ones, like I said, out of sight and out of mind. If they aren't pointed out, you'd never see them.

 

[Deco]

One real quick comment, and sorry should have said this earlier. Analyzing these 5-10 minute matches are not ideal, so that's a huge reason I am not holding completely firm on anything. I'm just merely commenting on what I see that looks out of sorts. I think/hope it's by design relative to the chosen minutes of match time. That's my biggest hope right now.

You're perfectly right about positioning Matt. . .we all back you on that one.

 

[curdstar]

That's fair enough Curdstar but I don't agree with the blindly hitting a ball into empty space especially using manual. . . .I actually think it can be more unpredictable and encourages creativity as you have more options but a short time to choose an option of which pass to choose. . whereas when you are in a small controlled space there are only a couple of obvious options to use which I feel is safer . .less chance of making a mess of things. . but each to their own .. .I certainly don't subscribe to having the best team and the best players to win a match which I don't believe you do either. .. but seeing where the players are on the pitch has to be done as I am trying to control the whole team and open up the defence of a far superior team most of the time.

Fair comments and my hope is that PES (preferably) eventually gets itself in a position where any camera will offer a consistency in challenge to all. You do use manual passing, so I can fully empathise with your take here, mate. That is a very different ball game playing manual, and respect and admire every single player who opts to use it for their passing game. If the PES2017 bug I have at the moment continues, I might very well try a Manual Passing/Advanced Shooting combo for my ML until the online beta of PES2018.

One thing that hasn't been touched upon enough when considering PES2018: just how much the enhancements to movement/flow might further enhance manual play. Who knows? It could end up offering the definitive experience and see those who are manual skeptics completely re-assess their take on manual control.

PS - That Coutinho gif linked up by John earlier looks absolutely wonderful. Otherwordly, in fact, when considering football videogames. I've never seen anything quite like it and there are other little moments littered throughout these videos that don't just look simply fresh for PES, but the genre as a whole.

 

[Deco]

Oh sure, I just didn't see how it was relevant. I think I tend to mix it up quite a bit. I don't stream or show full matches often, most of the time, a blessing and curse, I'm looking at the positioning. As a result, I move the ball to see what their defensive shape looks like.

My issues are the ones, like I said, out of sight and out of mind. If they aren't pointed out, you'd never see them.

You're right I wouldn't see them normally .. I'm obviously not as bright as you are when it comes to the nitty gritty of the mechanics .. . but I am aware of it now as you so rightly pointed out .. .. but I still think that the video that Chris put up was great and the best one that has been shown so far and showed an awareness in the AI defence which wasn't there before.

 

[Matt10]

You're right I wouldn't see them normally .. I'm obviously not as bright as you are when it comes to the nitty gritty of the mechanics .. . but I am aware of it now as you so rightly pointed out .. .. but I still think that the video that Chris put up was great and the best one that has been shown so far and showed an awareness in the AI defence which wasn't there before.

For the match time, I will agree. How else can a 90 minute match be compressed into 5-10 minutes other than opening up space and making it easier to get into the defensive third.

 

[Deco]

I am going to post up a goal I scored on myClub a couple of nights ago. You can all dissect it to your heart's content and I appreciate the irony that I am using the dynamic wide cam, but myClub/online play unfortunately feels like it demands me to use it to find myself on a more even footing with my opponent. Lag, however slight, is going to be a factor too. I would love to be able to customise the camera to how I set it offline in online play, and maybe for a league to be set-up among like-minded players.

PA1 passing and advanced shooting used.

The thing I want you all to think about, while taking the goal, the positioning or whatever completely apart piece by piece, is how I felt at the time after scoring it, along with where my focus was in creating it. Just how much do you think I was getting concerned about player positioning? If there are issues, does that mean everything I felt about the goal is completely invalidated?


I watch that and know it is mine; know where my focus was and just how in tune I was feeling with my players thanks to me...well, y'know, actually participating and not simply watching.

Lovely goal . . now tell me is advanced shooting a form of manual or assisted? I can't figure out how it's different from the other two.

 

[Deco]

For the match time, I will agree. How else can a 90 minute match be compressed into 5-10 minutes other than opening up space and making it easier to get into the defensive third.

Yes I see your point . . if you saw a 20 min match like this without frantic attacking how would you feel about it?

 

[curdstar]

Lovely goal . . now tell me is advanced shooting a form of manual or assisted? I can't figure out how it's different from the other two.

Honestly, I think it sits right between the two, but then at the same time I think it is very much its own thing. Put it this way: it is never a sure thing with Advanced Shooting, as you may remember when watching that key game in my Benevento Calcio Serie B campaign all those months ago. Remember the sitter I missed from just over six yards out in that game? Entirely down to me not composing myself and instinctively pointing towards the goal, instead of pushing away from it when powering up and keeping the effort down. Sounds simple enough when you break it down like that, but I love how Advanced can punish you in much the same way Manual can. It's realistic. All the stats driven stuff in the world would have seen that effort go in no bother using Basic Shooting.