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PES 2018 PlayStation & Xbox Discussion Thread

Chris Davies said:
I trust Dave - we both had very similar opinions of "the other game", especially their decision to make no real changes to the career mode for the last two years and how, since Rutter left, it's a bit of a shambles.

So to read that he thinks shooting is "still predictable" with little variation is a massive concern to me, given that it was such a factor in me giving up 2017.

I really hope it's not too late to improve the shooting model - as I said earlier, it seems utterly basic in the videos compared to everything else (and Dave suggests it feels that way when playing it).

Surely the entire point of football is to score goals - it'd be nice if they weren't all the same (for the second year running)...

(Not just bashing the game - I just know how difficult it is to enjoy a game when the same faults from the previous year are still there...)
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We should wait the new code with contextual shooting. I hope they show it this tour.
 
Response from Dave (tweeted him a message based on his shooting critique):

xDQrns3.jpg
 
The shooting mechanic used in these vids is literally called Basic Shooting. Not Advanced, not Manual, but Basic. You are going to get the most restrictive, stripped back form of shooting the game can muster using Basic Shooting.

I also notice, both in these vids and some of my limited online play on PES2017, that folk rarely use dynamic 1-2 - the best off-the-ball movement mechanic added to a football game in recent memory.
 
curdstar said:
The shooting mechanic used in these vids is literally called Basic Shooting. Not Advanced, not Manual, but Basic. You are going to get the most restrictive, stripped back form of shooting the game can muster using Basic Shooting.
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Sorry, but it was "basic" in the old PS1 days, and there was variation (@Matt10 put a video on Twitter earlier today to demonstrate this). I tend not to reference the old games because - as I've said multiple times - PES 2017 is the best PES they've ever made, in my view, and I don't agree with all the "WE9LE was better" etc. statements. But we had more shot variety, without needing a manual mode.

This is another one of those "well I play on manual so it's your fault assisted passing is broken" moments - sorry but that's not an excuse. If you set up the game by default to use basic shooting, it needs to have enough variety to produce a range of goals.

You've got your advanced shooting and that's great, you don't have a complaint about that. I've got a complaint about basic shooting, and it's valid.

I'm not expecting the earth, here - I just want to see shots that aren't so perfectly hit, that don't tend to go into the top corner. Variety, that's all - and more sense from strikers with higher finishing stats.
 
I'm a little reluctant to call for changes this late in the dev cycle. I know this shouldn't need to be a choice but I'd prefer shooting to be broken like it is now that totally messed up after Konami trying to change it late.

Konami have a history of these botches.
 
Here's a thing, if the simulation community is so huge and needs to be listened too, why don't folk simply get more organised? And by that I mean both regards the game once it is out, as well as in the build up.

I'm sorry, but we don't half come across as an entitled, yet easily distracted bunch at times. Eyes wondering off the goal and heading off at tangents; poor articulation; passive aggressive approach to those involved with the game; a stubborn refusal to give credit where it is due because of personalising everything. It is a recipe for disaster.

The hardcore community should accept that they are elitists, for better and most certainly worse, and instead of continually throwing the toys out the pram should take PES for what it is and work from there, or simply move on.

Sliders sure as shite ain't the answer. Global edits would appear off the table at the moment. No, actually chiselling out genuine ideas and innovation is. No point in bombarding them with a shit-ton at once and from all angles, as it just makes us all look more schizophrenic than we already come across. In amongst all these critiques by folk who allege they want the best for all is a lack of self-awareness as well as product awareness.
 
Chris Davies said:
Sorry, but it was "basic" in the old PS1 days, and there was variation (@Matt10 put a video on Twitter earlier today to demonstrate this). I tend not to reference the old games because - as I've said multiple times - PES 2017 is the best PES they've ever made, in my view, and I don't agree with all the "WE9LE was better" etc. statements. But we had more shot variety, without needing a manual mode.

This is another one of those "well I play on manual so it's your fault assisted passing is broken" moments - sorry but that's not an excuse. If you set up the game by default to use basic shooting, it needs to have enough variety to produce a range of goals.

You've got your advanced shooting and that's great, you don't have a complaint about that. I've got a complaint about basic shooting, and it's valid.

I'm not expecting the earth, here - I just want to see shots that aren't so perfectly hit, that don't tend to go into the top corner. Variety, that's all - and more sense from strikers with higher finishing stats.
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I agree that that Basic should get more love, but the fact is there is a model in the game right now that allows for variety as well as control, with the big plus being that it also challenges the users composure and needs to be learned: surely what sim players would want, no? Advanced Shooting is almost, almost, perfect, so talk of more animations being implemented is music to my ears, because everything else is almost in place with the Advanced Shooting model.

When it was first introduced in PES2014 most of what I read was that it was just those crazy Japanese doing things their own way and not using what simply works. Folk were moaning that that it wasn't FIFA's semi-assisted model.

Advanced Shooting is miles better than semi-assisted in FIFA, and for me is far superior to the Manual model used in either game currently too.
 
From Dave's impressions:
(...)here’s also a much greater depth to locomotion across the player spectrum with Godin and Pique for example, noticeably slower to turn than Neymar and Griezmann. Who by comparison glide effortlessly across the pitch. Those are obvious examples to pick, but the distance between these players in terms of manoeuvrability is larger than in previous games(...)
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And

(...)but PES 2018 makes a great fist of doing so, with flair dribblers (who are finally scary to defend against), countered by all new physicality and contextual shielding which give defenders a very different, but equally powerful toolset to deal with 1v1 situations. I honestly can’t think of a football game which has stuck this balance as well as PES 2018 does, and it’s something that only hands-on experience can really do full justice.
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Great! Exactly what was needed and lacking since the PS2 days!
This just keeps getting better and better.
Looks/sounds/feels exactly like what Adam Bhatti said about us wondering how they achieved all this in just one year.
 
curdstar said:
Look brilliant, like, ridiculously good. Just would like the game to allow me take them from a broadcast camera angle for that "live" vibe...
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wouldnt that make it harder to aim the circle at goal!? maybe an option to choose from would solve the issue. option beeing the regular way and the second one would be: as soon as the player starts it run towards ball (you already pressed power and aimed), the cam pans out to tv cam!
 
curdstar said:
The hardcore community should accept that they are elitists, for better and most certainly worse, and instead of continually throwing the toys out the pram should take PES for what it is and work from there, or simply move on.
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Isn't this what we have tried to do, this year, "work from there," with the petition for defensive positioning?
 
Enjoyed reading the article as well. Of course, it's nothing new, but that wasn't the point. It serves as more validation of what we all know is needed to be high on the priority list. I believe Adam knows that, and shooting animations will improve the shooting physics, because PES 18 is focused on where the ball is relative to the player's positioning. This is why we are seeing such fantastic dribbling and passing animations via the locomotion they've achieved.

Off the ball will still stick out. Look at all the videos, how easy it is for a forward to be sent the ball straight after a defensive stand. There's no DMF because the forward gets in front, and the DMF's teammates are too busy retreating. It is what it is, and I don't think there is any chance of it being looked at...ever. We'll have to manufacture the proper positioning, which is fine, just hope it's not that hard or painful to do so for all teams.
 
PRO_TOO said:
wouldnt that make it harder to aim the circle at goal!? maybe an option to choose from would solve the issue. option being the regular way and the second one would be: as soon as the player starts it run towards ball (you already pressed power and aimed), the cam pans out to tv cam!
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Penalties in football games should be more about drama and tension. The problem I have currently with spot-kicks is the disconnect; the changing camera angles and viewpoints for execution; don't even get me started on EA's bizarrely championed efforts. Frame rate dropped to 30 and all that. Shite.

I would be happy with penalties looking like they do in the video I posted, which I edited and posted after I saw it in an AI v. AI match in PES2017 shortly after release.

The penalty kick in the video looks "live" as the run-up, execution, result and aftermath is all in one take. I have no objections to some broadcast cuts either before or after the phase of play itself, as that would be realistic when considering how it looks on TV. Control could be made simple enough from that angle, in fact the existing control could still work with some minor tweaking.

I know, some broadcasts do go behind the spot-kicker, but I always thought that looked a bit shite when they did that, with the exceptions of replays.

Think of Pirlo's penalty against England in Euro 2012 as being a superb example of what I am talking about.
 
curdstar said:
Here's a thing, if the simulation community is so huge and needs to be listened too, why don't folk simply get more organised? And by that I mean both regards the game once it is out, as well as in the build up.

I'm sorry, but we don't half come across as an entitled, yet easily distracted bunch at times. Eyes wondering off the goal and heading off at tangents; poor articulation; passive aggressive approach to those involved with the game; a stubborn refusal to give credit where it is due because of personalising everything. It is a recipe for disaster.

The hardcore community should accept that they are elitists, for better and most certainly worse, and instead of continually throwing the toys out the pram should take PES for what it is and work from there, or simply move on.

Sliders sure as shite ain't the answer. Global edits would appear off the table at the moment. No, actually chiselling out genuine ideas and innovation is. No point in bombarding them with a shit-ton at once and from all angles, as it just makes us all look more schizophrenic than we already come across. In amongst all these critiques by folk who allege they want the best for all is a lack of self-awareness as well as product awareness.
Click to expand...

curdstar said:
Look brilliant, like, ridiculously good. Just would like the game to allow me take them from a broadcast camera angle for that "live" vibe...
Click to expand...
Ditto. You hit the nail on the head. We really need to prioritise, organise, and coordinate better. Some will say that it is pointless, and I do understand why years of frustration can result in absolute discouragement, but after seeing the massive improvements made I believe a window of opportunity, however small, might have finally opened. I've already explained my view in other posts so I won't drone on about it again here, but I will add this: even though there are no guarantees that campaigning/advocating/providing constructive feedback (whatever you want to call it) will ever accomplish any concrete objective, a revived passion and a renewed hope impel me keep knocking at the door. Those who are too jaded and consider it but a fool's errand—I get you. But I still think it's worth a shot.

Anyway, fully agree with you on all points except for sliders, whose use would not be compulsory, and which I thus fail to regard as so catastrophic an addition as some evidently consider.
 
I'm not reading a single review this time. Not one. They will all glorify it like there's no tomorrow like every year then comes the demo and it's all different. F that shit. Gameplay videos until the online beta should suffice.
 
curdstar said:
Here's a thing, if the simulation community is so huge and needs to be listened too, why don't folk simply get more organised? And by that I mean both regards the game once it is out, as well as in the build up.

I'm sorry, but we don't half come across as an entitled, yet easily distracted bunch at times. Eyes wondering off the goal and heading off at tangents; poor articulation; passive aggressive approach to those involved with the game; a stubborn refusal to give credit where it is due because of personalising everything. It is a recipe for disaster.

The hardcore community should accept that they are elitists, for better and most certainly worse, and instead of continually throwing the toys out the pram should take PES for what it is and work from there, or simply move on.

Sliders sure as shite ain't the answer. Global edits would appear off the table at the moment. No, actually chiselling out genuine ideas and innovation is. No point in bombarding them with a shit-ton at once and from all angles, as it just makes us all look more schizophrenic than we already come across. In amongst all these critiques by folk who allege they want the best for all is a lack of self-awareness as well as product awareness.
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@Lami got organized. He created a thread that stemmed across other forums, got 100 votes of yes, and it still wasn't enough.

It's quantity over quality. It's hopes versus facts.

Until KONAMI allow us to customize the gameplay to our liking, they will fall short of the sim community's expectations.
 
Sami 1999 said:
I like to see Full 90 min option too.

Me and my bro used to play PES 10 with 90 min match time using kit server. Not only the players, but I myself got fatigued for playing so long. It rocks, and will be cool to have 90min natively in game.
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Really? The matches must have taken up to nearly 2 hrs . . .what were the scorelines like?
 
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