Edmundo 22
League 1
- 11 November 2003
Sorry to hear some of you not enjoying PES 2016.
Ive clocked 298 hours so far, Im in love.
Ive clocked 298 hours so far, Im in love.
PES 2016 News & Discussion Thread
- Thread starter zeemeister
- Start date
Ameppe
International
- 23 December 2007
- SSC Napoli
We would have positive feedback for sure. Even if there are negatives they would be told by KONAMI they are still working on it, being a beta and so on.
I think every year we have mostly positive feedback at previews events because this game played against other people (not online) is really fun. Then there is the exciting feeling to play a new Pes game before everyone else.
But imo the real first feeling of the game will be the demo and even then it can be misleading.
In other words just wait for the final game to have a complete idea about how Pes 2017 will be.
Elja
How's it guys?
- 11 October 2015
chiefrocka4real
Champions League
God....that one shared by officialpes is a big OUCH!
Probably the biggest among all the other ouches...
Can´t understand how to promote that one, as it was something positive
gabe.paul.logan
Retired Footballer
God....that one shared by officialpes is a big OUCH!
Probably the biggest among all the other ouches...
Can´t understand how to promote that one, as it was something positive
Seems like the one whos managing the account never played PES or any football game for instance ...or barely knows anything about football.
I thought tbh Asim took over that role as online & social media manager but i guess he works for Konami in general.
- Thread starter
- #9,607
zeemeister
foxy engine
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I always got the impression that Asim is more of a Fifa fan than Pes, he seems to be happy about the road Pes is taking since Pes 2015 but that's just my opinion. It looks like Pes is lost in a vacuum between fifa and itself but Fifa has double crossed us and turned into old Pes and more sim-like. Rock and a hard place. . .let's see them wriggle out of this one for 2017.
iv been a pes fan for a very long time and just recently gave fifa a proper go, as much as we hate EA cos of the past and a long list of very disappointing fifa games, this year to me it seems the made more of an effort to try replicate football on the pitch, whereas pes has simplified football to cater for the casuals to make more money, what il be expecting to hear from pes this year is, look the AI takes long high shots as if to say its the new feature in pes, or they'll bring back community mode and say we listened to the fans, which to me they shouldnt of gotten rid of it in the first place, which tells me they are taking the piss out of the fans by taking good parts of the game out and then putting them in again to say its new or to make them look good as if to say there listening to us, maybe its a tactic there using to sugar coat the problems there having with gameplay cos they dont have the manpower or treat it as a proper project, and worst of all we are paying full price for an incomplete game. Also fifa does have issues, still needs work on tactics, pattern of AI attacking, but im seeing a variety of individuality in alot of areas for the very first which is why im actually enjoying it alot and will keep me busy till the new games come out.
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gabe.paul.logan
Retired Footballer
Guys, how many special faces do we have in P2016 up to this point?
I might be joining you in playing Fifa's next edition. I'm still playing Pes in Serie A and you get the odd great match but the negatives far outweigh the positives, just as I feel my team tactics are spot on the scripting throws it up in the air. there's so much to fix with Pes between the lack of shooting variation, the free run through the middle .. the keeper staying on the line when the forward is in the box, the shite refereeing, the lack of stadiums.. . licences . . the rubbish heading.. .the superfast perfect passing . .ah I'd better stop. I can't take much more shoddy crap from Konami.
Ameppe
International
- 23 December 2007
- SSC Napoli
Recently Asim was the one tweeting from officialpes account. It must be him. It shows he doesn't even know what is wrong with the game.
The goal itself it's not wrong. It's wrong the fact that it's a bug in Pes since Pes 2014. You can do that without an inch of skill. Wasn't Pes a game that rewarded skill upon cheap goals?
gabe.paul.logan
Retired Footballer
Maybe this isnt a bad thing. No one praises the goal on twitter. Maybe a wake up call for them, there is still time.
Great. He sees nothing wrong with it. Light hearted my bum.
I generally love PES approach to the game. To be honest I don't know why some see the game that bad this year. I play full manual with broadcast cam. The game is so challenging and to me it's the right approach to real life football. I have Fifa too and i think it's a good effort but not sure why I just keep playing PES
klashman69
Fight the Power!
- 28 November 2007
PES right now is similar to FIFA 09/10 its at that crossroads stage where the engine is great but its how they build on it now, because whats there is clearly not good enough they just keep tweaking it, it needs significant but with the right vision it has everything to be great.
Its technically destroys EA & FIFA in terms of the two engines. The fox engine is making a mockery of EA in the same fashion EA made a mockery of PES when they hit the 360/PS3 generation.
This is best shown here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aA6zXHtHC5w
Two proper players playing the game in a pure way.
PES is the game now, casual people are paying PES over FIFA because its getting the simple things nailed on and moving them up a level. Even in Canada i seeing more people talk about PES here than FIFA which shocks me! This is obviously a worry in regard to Konami favoring these fans over the hardcore, although it shows there is a clear future for the franchise which now needs to define itself and what its really about.
vialli82
International
- 4 September 2005
- Juventus
Totally agree with your post, the basis physical engine blows away Fifa engine, which is pratically a copy/paste of the PS360 engine with more memory to add algorithms on the "old" physical engine, tweaked at his maximum. While the Fox seems only at his beginning with PES 2016.
The problem remains in "what Konami will deal with it" that's the big question. And for the issues we all know, it takes 2-3 years to make what EA can do in one.
Ignite seems to focus more on details, graphical, than the physics in general (inertia, contacts, weight shifting etc.) and that wasn't too hard to switch all that Fifa have from PS360 to PSXO
The problem remains in "what Konami will deal with it" that's the big question. And for the issues we all know, it takes 2-3 years to make what EA can do in one.
Ignite seems to focus more on details, graphical, than the physics in general (inertia, contacts, weight shifting etc.) and that wasn't too hard to switch all that Fifa have from PS360 to PSXO
After I watched that the flaws of pes really stand out..most of the time perfect 1 touch passing, instant control off every player, same dribbling styles regardless of position...and that first goal were the keeper spills it would of infuriated me and it was mostly end to end (probably because of instant control / touch/pass were if there was more error would break the game up
vialli82
International
- 4 September 2005
- Juventus
Fifa is far from perfect in all that you have mentionned... Especially one touch passing on assisted, and first touch.
Too easy to make turns with the ball, to overlap a player, to shoot in an instant on a lose ball and score whatever the player's body position is etc.
Fifa give me the feeling of a "too much tweaked" games to be a bit balanced, and it's not simulation at all if the physics aren't respected at least a bit. For me it doesn't gives me a good feeling of physical reality at all, and that's what i hate about Ignite: the non-existent feeling of weight and "emergency" teleporting animations to compensate who defies physical laws.
So without carying of the body position in offense and defense, weight-shifting, gravity-center that's making few actions and movements a bit ugly and accelerated. Not giving a natural feeling while controlling, to be brief.
Too easy to make turns with the ball, to overlap a player, to shoot in an instant on a lose ball and score whatever the player's body position is etc.
Fifa give me the feeling of a "too much tweaked" games to be a bit balanced, and it's not simulation at all if the physics aren't respected at least a bit. For me it doesn't gives me a good feeling of physical reality at all, and that's what i hate about Ignite: the non-existent feeling of weight and "emergency" teleporting animations to compensate who defies physical laws.
So without carying of the body position in offense and defense, weight-shifting, gravity-center that's making few actions and movements a bit ugly and accelerated. Not giving a natural feeling while controlling, to be brief.
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Ameppe
International
- 23 December 2007
- SSC Napoli
I have to disagree Pes 2016 nails the simple things. Shooting is absolutely overpowered and that first goal shows that.
A 40 meters rocket launched from Podolski, without the need to adjust the player body. It simply shots (it's not even at full power) and the ball has no physics variation at all, the trajectory is just a stright line to the goal.
Ball travels during passing as a steel ball, not as a football. No ball little jumps between passing, just simple strings of passing betweet one player and another.
That is obviously played on assisted, but the problem is even on assisted Fifa doesn't show these ugly passing and shooting.
Fifa 16 is now the game where even assisted you have to care about player position, you can't simply shoot to launch a rocket shot. Ball bounces more in Fifa 16 and it gives the game a more organic and realistic feeling.
Look, for example, at the passing at 2:12, do you see how unrealistically fast and styraight that pass is? That's one example, but i could point several others in just this match.
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not for shooting it isn't, still far too easy to score and get on target, also as there is next to no first touch error once you get the hang of passing it becomes easy..plus manual doesn't sort out all those issues for the AI who knock it about perfectly.
I also don't understand this weight comparison to FIFA that's been stated. FIFA has lots of weight to it, lots of fighting for balls when the ball is loose. Defenders regularly knock lighter players off the ball
vialli82
International
- 4 September 2005
- Juventus
@Ameppe:
That shooting part is an algorithm who can be added later, but looks like a bad gameplay choice too from Konami
We doesn't have that with PES 2014 same engine, even if long shots was always intercepted too easy by the gk
Like he say (you didn't read well) PES Fox engine is at his first steps even if he got 3 years old, it's not exploited in the gameplay algorithms and still basic and restrictive like the PS360 Fifa engine was in Fifa 09 era.
Many features needs to be implanted to give it much more variety, but we talk about the basis engine of football represention at least physics and animations
That shooting part is an algorithm who can be added later, but looks like a bad gameplay choice too from Konami
We doesn't have that with PES 2014 same engine, even if long shots was always intercepted too easy by the gk
Like he say (you didn't read well) PES Fox engine is at his first steps even if he got 3 years old, it's not exploited in the gameplay algorithms and still basic and restrictive like the PS360 Fifa engine was in Fifa 09 era.
Many features needs to be implanted to give it much more variety, but we talk about the basis engine of football represention at least physics and animations
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klashman69
Fight the Power!
- 28 November 2007
See whats interesting about what you mention is your found three areas which ruin you defined 'sim' elements, also you mentioned the 'end to end' nature of the game.
Konami made no effort to update the international teams tactics are they really are all so so horribly setup you have numbers in defence set to few. When the tactics are setup properly you get a balanced match, goals like the first one are avoided when you set you defensive midfielders up. Due to the nature of assisted passing being very easy you see a lot of quick counter goals and there are no distinct dribbling styles because there is no gradient between dribbling and full speed sprinting.
Now, I'm not excusing Konami's incompetence here instead i'm showing an example how we see a lot of the same flaws in the game it just depends what you look for to enjoy the game. The issues spoken of here show a game which is still very basic and needs improving, FIFA's issues for example are the precise opposite:
- while PES's passing is too easy, FIFA's passing is broken, just flat out broken in it's design conception all the way to how it's implemented. It's been heavily broken since FIFA 10 and the 'war' against ping pong passing has lead towards just ruining passing more and more every year.
This comes from EA never implementing passing stats properly way back when the engine was in its early conceptions so they need to break the passing to stop the easy ping pong.
To show the failure in the design of FIFA's passing model, you have this ghastly and poorly made 'driven pass' with R1? So instead of just holding the pass or lob button longer to hit a hard, fast ball, you need to hold R1 to do it? What makes it worse is the standard pass mechanics are deliberately slowed down regardless how long you hold the button for and regardless the player, not to mention how poor the sensitivity is.
I could go on but what we are discussing here isn't which is the greater simulation for everyone, we are talking about the technical implementation of functions and how well the engine produces them. In many areas PES is technically far superior now and is running on an engine which is really just getting started. EA like i've said need a whole new engine which TTB has sia should be coming soon hopefully.
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klashman69
Fight the Power!
- 28 November 2007
Ameppe, what i say about the simple things again is the technical implementation, not that the system is designed to give a full simulation output.
Ameppe
International
- 23 December 2007
- SSC Napoli
But Pes 2015 had better passing and shooting was not so overpowered, so can't understand how can you say they are really at a basic level because they are now just starting with Fox Engine. They used to be better last year but they decided to cater the casual crowd so they simplified shooting and passing, they have gone backwards. Assisted passing last year at 1 bar was good, this year is like there is no variation between passing at level 1 and level 3. So, i think in Pes 2016 passing assistance is definitely broken and not because of the engine, but because of KONAMI's will to sell as many copies as possible by attracting the casual Fifa player.
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gabe.paul.logan
Retired Footballer
Shooting is better this year, far from i would play the game better but at least controlled shots can go wide 2/10 times and the Long Ranger ability can be turned off to make this number higher if u want. Last year it was 0. The assisetd passing bar is bugged tho and they couldnt fix it simply i guess.
klashman69
Fight the Power!
- 28 November 2007
Yes, in terms of the gameplay it being realistically balanced PES 2015 was much better. This again was never my argument in the first place however.
We however are talking purely in programming, we are talking in terms of just go to training mode and try shooting on manual, basic etc and you can see the programming of the shooting is very well done! The mechanics are the best in any football by a long way, the flaw and issue gmes from the basic movement.
Its 'overpowered' because you are rarely off balance when shooting or passing in the first place. this again relates to the 'tron running', 'lack of movement gradients' points i say over and over. Remember PES 2011-2013 the shooting was all about finding balance before the shot, the where so many more variables in movement in those game. On PES 2016 is sadly never even an issue hence why scoring is so easy.
Ameppe i gave up with PES 2016 being a sim last year, i just play it for what it is.
vialli82
International
- 4 September 2005
- Juventus
That's totally the problem, "tron running" like you mention it, players needed an attribute who considers that.
Few pages from this with the online editor pictures, i've seen "Body Control" as a new physical attribute, and i think this would resolve the problem.
If a player have a low "Body Control", he normally will have some difficulties to pass/shoot in a bad position, even more if the Finishing/Passing attribute is related.
PES needed that kind of attribute i think, related to the "Barycenter" (from those who remember the explanation of PES 2014 new engine)
I hope it's not just the old "agility" renamed and separated from acceleration, but i don't think so.
I think it will be more about the flexibility of the player, something different.
Not related to how the player's turning is quick/fast, but like the name said how he can control his body shifting.
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