PES 2014 Discussion Thread

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Matty_17 said:
not buying it. teamplay variation in pes 2013 is horrible. every team tackles > long pass > 1v1. no variation.

barca plays nothing like barca, no team has a distinct style.
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Its not about buying into a placebo effect, tactics affect the game massively if you look into them.

This has been affect CPU how they play since 2011.

teamplay variation in pes 2013 is horrible. every team tackles > long pass > 1v1.
Click to expand...

That is the tactic called 'Long ball' Which is a bad translation of Counter attack. and surprise surprise this is by far the most used formation on default konami settings given to teams.

Most teams in all the leagues across the games are set to use this, so most teams will sit back in numbers and look to counter.

Dont wait for a video, try it out for yourself.

Play a 15 minute, possibly longer game, you can set up teams like this:
http://forums.evo-web.co.uk/showthread.php?t=68909
http://www.pesgaming.com/showthread.php?t=91140

xavi2009 said:
I support Matty's argument.
In terms of real, organic gameplay awareness, PES currently involves two players (attacker and defender) while the rest adapt by a quite basic positional script. In addition, the engine constantly messes the teams defensive lines in order to create space, which intends to create the illusion of and organic, adaptative situation going on at times.
This leads to a quite repetitive scheme of play.
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Its you again. Mr Negative:

Here, having issues with CPU playing the same way or tactics: Here:
http://forums.evo-web.co.uk/showthread.php?t=68909
http://www.pesgaming.com/showthread.php?t=91140

There, i not having this shit people saying PES has no tactical awareness :) Its not even some placebo, its there we been testing this for ages, us within the community. Haters are just going to hate.
 
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Barca_Fan13 said:
Makes sense. Though it seems like it would take the player to play realistically aswell to achieve a "realistic" match. We know that in real life, players do not constantly sprint due to stamina. If PES 2014 were to have a realistic stamina system, that would force the player to play realistically, non-sprinting constantly, and making better plays.

Thankfully the AI in 2014 looks better so far, passing back when under pressure, not always going for goal, slow build-up play, passing than trying to deke an opponent(s) (though not all the time, just in real life).
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See people, here, a discussion, no big arrogance "If i don't like it nobody likes it!"

Discussion, i explain in full how things work, no nonsense, just discussion.
 
I'm familiar with your work, Klashman; we all know how good and extensive it is, with a lot of knowledge involved and attetion to detail. But we have to acknowledge that the sliders only adjust distances between teammates given an X situation, with no real gameplan involved, in terms of philosophy, that is.
Therefore, I conclude that current PES lacks real team/manager ID.

Please don't reduce my knowledge of the game to «hating». Thanks.
 
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Hm Klashman69. I am trying PES 2013 1.04. unmodded, unpatched right now.

No modifications made, set Option.bin file to read-only.

Playing CL competition with Bayern and... I am enjoying it. Having to fight hard for a win, goalkeepers make decent saves, AI seems to play better too. Bizarre.

:P

But still... Can't wait for PES 2014 demo. WRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!
 
The Doctor76 said:
Thanks for that.

Can they be added and implemented into Master League though? They're not much use to me standalone. :)
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Short answer - no, they can't.

Longer answer - well, with Jenkey's tools you could add almost as many leagues as you want in exhibition mode, but when it comes to master league, number of playable leagues in 2013 is hardcoded and those additional leagues do not exist in ML. There may have been an option in his tool to select ONE of those league to replace the usual Div 2, but that's about it.
 
Barca_Fan13 said:
That impression is a nice little read. Its good to hear that physical size will work in accordance with stats to create realistic tackles and jostling for the ball. Hopefully, this will makes games such as Barca vs. Madrid much more realistic, with one team being more physical and the other more nimble and speedy.

A note on the FK system (i would think that corner kicks are also effected), anyone notice its pretty much the system used in Football Kingdom?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_jzUjo3eT8

Skip to 2:15 to see what I mean.
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That looks like a really good game!
 
klashman69 said:
Its not about buying into a placebo effect, tactics affect the game massively if you look into them.

This has been affect CPU how they play since 2011.



That is the tactic called 'Long ball' Which is a bad translation of Counter attack. and surprise surprise this is by far the most used formation on default konami settings given to teams.

Most teams in all the leagues across the games are set to use this, so most teams will sit back in numbers and look to counter.

Dont wait for a video, try it out for yourself.

Play a 15 minute, possibly longer game, you can set up teams like this:
http://forums.evo-web.co.uk/showthread.php?t=68909
http://www.pesgaming.com/showthread.php?t=91140



Its you again. Mr Negative:

Here, having issues with CPU playing the same way or tactics: Here:
http://forums.evo-web.co.uk/showthread.php?t=68909
http://www.pesgaming.com/showthread.php?t=91140

There, i not having this shit people saying PES has no tactical awareness :) Its not even some placebo, its there we been testing this for ages, us within the community. Haters are just going to hate.
Click to expand...

Perhaps they should make the tactical sliders variation more extreme. I'd be delighted if Spain or Barcelona kept the ball so well that they force me into parking the bus and counter attacking! While both teams are arguably the most difficult in the game, they are still too direct for my liking even with modified tactics.
 
xavi2009 said:
I'm familiar with your work, Klashman; we all know how good and extensive it is, with a lot of knowledge involved and attetion to detail. But we have to acknowledge that the sliders only adjust distances between teammates given an X situation, with no real gameplan involved,
Click to expand...

Just focus on using what you have at your disposal. I don't look at what i want it to do in my fantasy or what i learned from this man or whatever. I look at what i have on the table. How are you sure what you want is 100% possible to program?

I was playing PES 2 last week, back then, and i knew this back playing ISS on the PSx, it was still highly tactical, even more so, but there was no AI variety like we see now. The game is very basic compared to now.

You see what the game is capable of and set a strategy to suit what you know, what you have in your individuals, who your playing against.

One big difference is you used to be able to set any player to an offensive or defensive mindset, its changed now to bring out more individuality, so instead of arrows, you move your icons in a more deliberate fashion, complied with the individuality, Marking is more basic compared to yesteryear, its going back to being advanced again. Then again there is so much more movement compared to previous games off the ball.

the engine constantly messes the teams defensive lines in order to create space, which intends to create the illusion of and organic, adaptative situation going on at times.
Click to expand...

How defending works in PES 2013, in a nutshell about following the tactic you give yourself.

The first and most important thing is positioning, don't even worry about tackling the ball carrier, just get your men organized.

If you set your defense deep, and pressing low, make sure you never rush in and vice versa. Usually my most important man is the defensive midfielder, and my midfield in general, my first instinct to now get them into solid positions so the AI don't have space to work with.

This is very heavy again on individuality, for example if in Master League you buy a lot of players, your going to concede and have players not following orders at times because of teamwork.

Sven Bender is fantastic on this game, but for Arsenal career he messes up my defense lines and plays people onside, the other defenders don't do this. despite his great attribute his bad teamwork stats means this happens sometimes, but he is that good he makes up for it. My back four work well together by the way.

There is cheating, as you expect, since we are dealing with primate computers which are just programs responding to commends, a computer is never going to give you a game like human and its almost stupid to expect it to. We will be here for another 30 years and cheating will still happen.

All i all, if its not there, why are you worrying about it so much and is it even possible in the first place to do? Has it even been seen in a game?
 
zlac said:
Short answer - no, they can't.

Longer answer - well, with Jenkey's tools you could add almost as many leagues as you want in exhibition mode, but when it comes to master league, number of playable leagues in 2013 is hardcoded and those additional leagues do not exist in ML. There may have been an option in his tool to select ONE of those league to replace the usual Div 2, but that's about it.
Click to expand...

Oh well; thanks for your answer anyway. I have read that ML is having a complete overhaul though, so let's see what happens.
 
b0m83dd said:
Perhaps they should make the tactical sliders variation more extreme. I'd be delighted if Spain or Barcelona kept the ball so well that they force me into parking the bus and counter attacking! While both teams are arguably the most difficult in the game, they are still too direct for my liking even with modified tactics.
Click to expand...

All top teams have this aura of directness about them even with my tactics, usually on 15 minutes or less, not they pump the ball forward 24/7, just they have high ratings and they know they can attack.

Smaller teams even on 10 minutes when given strategies to play short passing always take their time, because they aren't capable of those hollywood passes.

When i play vs Barca i usually park the bus since i usually use a small team against them and trying to take them on has left me destroyed many times.
 
klashman69 said:
Just focus on using what you have at your disposal. I don't look at what i want it to do in my fantasy or what i learned from this man or whatever. I look at what i have on the table. How are you sure what you want is 100% possible to program?

I was playing PES 2 last week, back then, and i knew this back playing ISS on the PSx, it was still highly tactical, even more so, but there was no AI variety like we see now. The game is very basic compared to now.

You see what the game is capable of and set a strategy to suit what you know, what you have in your individuals, who your playing against.

One big difference is you used to be able to set any player to an offensive or defensive mindset, its changed now to bring out more individuality, so instead of arrows, you move your icons in a more deliberate fashion, complied with the individuality, Marking is more basic compared to yesteryear, its going back to being advanced again. Then again there is so much more movement compared to previous games off the ball.



How defending works in PES 2013, in a nutshell about following the tactic you give yourself.

The first and most important thing is positioning, don't even worry about tackling the ball carrier, just get your men organized.

If you set your defense deep, and pressing low, make sure you never rush in and vice versa. Usually my most important man is the defensive midfielder, and my midfield in general, my first instinct to now get them into solid positions so the AI don't have space to work with.

This is very heavy again on individuality, for example if in Master League you buy a lot of players, your going to concede and have players not following orders at times because of teamwork.

Sven Bender is fantastic on this game, but for Arsenal career he messes up my defense lines and plays people onside, the other defenders don't do this. despite his great attribute his bad teamwork stats means this happens sometimes, but he is that good he makes up for it. My back four work well together by the way.

There is cheating, as you expect, since we are dealing with primate computers which are just programs responding to commends, a computer is never going to give you a game like human and its almost stupid to expect it to. We will be here for another 30 years and cheating will still happen.

All i all, if its not there, why are you worrying about it so much and is it even possible in the first place to do? Has it even been seen in a game?
Click to expand...

This is true. I think too many people play the game as if it were FIFA where you can press for 90 minutes and not expect the CPU to exploit it.
 
I've also noticed this: If I play an intricate possession based tiki taka passing game, the CPU also begins to pass more.
 
klashman69 said:
All top teams have this aura of directness about them even with my tactics, usually on 15 minutes or less, not they pump the ball forward 24/7, just they have high ratings and they know they can attack.

Smaller teams even on 10 minutes when given strategies to play short passing always take their time, because they aren't capable of those hollywood passes.

When i play vs Barca i usually park the bus since i usually use a small team against them and trying to take them on has left me destroyed many times.
Click to expand...

I feel that the CPU emulates long ball teams really well. For example when playing against england the CPU will often play a long ball to the wings, or aim for the striker's head.
 
info0 said:
Hm Klashman69. I am trying PES 2013 1.04. unmodded, unpatched right now.

No modifications made, set Option.bin file to read-only.

Playing CL competition with Bayern and... I am enjoying it. Having to fight hard for a win, goalkeepers make decent saves, AI seems to play better too. Bizarre.

:P

But still... Can't wait for PES 2014 demo. WRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!
Click to expand...

Read only option file cuts out most of the cheating. it disables teamvision :) I haven't tried 1.04 at all yet, sounds good.
 
b0m83dd said:
This is true. I think too many people play the game as if it were FIFA where you can press for 90 minutes and not expect the CPU to exploit it.
Click to expand...

Nah, I don't think everyone does that.

I think what people do is try to close down the ball carrier or contain and only worry about only the ball carrier and not try to organize his team when he loses the all.

The best way to tackle is to organize your team so you close off all the passing lanes. The CPU will fuck up themselves with the difficultly of building the attack.

Another thing, I think many people don't fully 100% understand all the tactics functions there because there is no guide, we have just learned it through trial, error and experience. it is completely undersold by Konami.

If Konami provided a proper guide, people would be happier.

The common mistake i make when i lose is not follow or changing the tactic to how i want to play, that is what happens usually when i struggle. I'll back off too much when my pressing is set to 10 or 12/13, things like that, or i won't adapt to the how the CPU are playing.
 
klashman69 said:
How defending works in PES 2013, in a nutshell about following the tactic you give yourself.

The first and most important thing is positioning, don't even worry about tackling the ball carrier, just get your men organized.

If you set your defense deep, and pressing low, make sure you never rush in and vice versa. Usually my most important man is the defensive midfielder, and my midfield in general, my first instinct to now get them into solid positions so the AI don't have space to work with.

This is very heavy again on individuality, for example if in Master League you buy a lot of players, your going to concede and have players not following orders at times because of teamwork.

Sven Bender is fantastic on this game, but for Arsenal career he messes up my defense lines and plays people onside, the other defenders don't do this. despite his great attribute his bad teamwork stats means this happens sometimes, but he is that good he makes up for it. My back four work well together by the way.

There is cheating, as you expect, since we are dealing with primate computers which are just programs responding to commends, a computer is never going to give you a game like human and its almost stupid to expect it to. We will be here for another 30 years and cheating will still happen.

All i all, if its not there, why are you worrying about it so much and is it even possible in the first place to do? Has it even been seen in a game?
Click to expand...

@Klash

There is a gameplay trade-off when Konami introduce pro-active ai, thus we get this type of zonal marking most of the time.

I give an example of its downside :

whenever a cpu takes the possesion and counter attack.. my defensive line, in most cases is too close to cpu's attacker (read :zonal marking) even if i set "deep" defensive line in the gameplan. :RANT: This why we often see through ball from cpu.

And yes, i know that containing them will prevent them to bomb forward and my midfield can easily go back to support. That's the only way i could think of to cope with this situation.

You know, i just miss normal "zonal defense" style of play, like in PES 2011. I just can throw my midfielder and attacker upfront, and leave my DM in the center of the field and my backs stays deep. Hence, when cpu ai try counter attack, i have my backs already in deep defensive line and let the midfield coming back as fast as possible.

Anyway, i'd love to see tactic slider to just 5 bar at maximum. Easier to grasp :))
 
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I see it as PES 2013 with added physics engine (finally!). Physics engine is a big addition, (based on what i saw on E3 videos, it looks better than Fifa engine, where players act sometimes like crash test dummies, especially when falling),
but it's not enough to make a great game. I already saw some idiotic AI behaviour (on that Kei Masuda gameplay), like AI player kicking the ball into his teammate, or players not aware where the ball is (typical latest PES issue).
Animations seem much improved (but it's hard to really judge from these videos).I hope there is enough variety of animations, so they are not too repetitive. Otherwise it can get very annoying after 2-3 months.
We must wait at least for the demo to tell if the King has the opportunity to be back ;)
And i hope we will get rid of that rainbow under playrer's feet. Back to normal HUD (or at least have an option to choose).
 
Thespeedster84 said:
@Klash

There is a gameplay trade-off when Konami introduce pro-active ai, thus we get this type of zonal marking most of the time.

I give an example of its downside :

whenever a cpu takes the possesion and counter attack.. my defensive line, in most cases is too close to cpu's attacker (read :zonal marking) even if i set "deep" defensive line in the gameplan. :RANT: This why we often see through ball from cpu.

And yes, i know that containing them will prevent them to bomb forward and my midfield can easily go back to support. That's the only way i could think of to cope with this situation.

You know, i just miss normal "zonal defense" style of play, like in PES 2011. I just can throw my midfielder and attacker upfront, and leave my DM in the center of the field and my backs stays deep. Hence, when cpu ai try counter attack, i have my backs already in deep defensive line and let the midfield coming back as fast as possible.

Anyway, i'd love to see tactic slider to just 5 bar at maximum. Easier to grasp :))
Click to expand...

Well, you just said it, why not just defend deep? no need to complain even.
 
i just watched a gamespot video about FIFA 14 next gen.
all the things that are mentioned as new features in FIFA 14 next gen have been in PES for ages.
how the hell do FIFA fans look at themselves in the mirror knowing they fooled themselves al these years that they were playing a superior football game.
turning while trapping the ball,close controle footwork, glancing headers, side foot passes and curling shots.
no wonder i never got of of my seat while scoring a goal in FIFA.
 
Well, I finished the alternate ingame HUD, after hours of work :D

Narrowed the boxes a bit and redone the player cursors.

Here's in Widescreen 16:9

vCmzWgg.jpg

And a Standard 4:3 version

O8ARDgx.jpg

Also completed the scoreboard.

9nIfSLu.png
 
Thanks!

The font is the known Futura, an awesome typeface. I chose it because it represents the complete overhaul PES 2014 will be. It's both elegant and readable. Konami already used its condensed version (which also appears in Skyrim) in PES 2008.
 
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I too would love the option to have the names at the bottom of the screen. Maybe they can add it for 2015.
 
joeryan said:
They could add it for this year if they wanted. It's a simple fix.
Click to expand...

Usually in big software development like this you would lock down all features and set up sprints for development. It's not that it's impossible to add it, it's about the strict methodology used for minimizing missing deadlines that makes it very unlikely to be added. Much more likely to be added in an update.
 
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