PES 2012: The Wish List

I have to agree about a button combo to trigger acrobatic attempts - in real life you decide what you're going to do early, set yourself up for it, then execute.
In PES 2011, the proper volleys look horrible - always rushed with no backswing, because the player is standing perfectly still until a split second before they actually strike the ball...

YouTube - Scholes VS Aston Villa

Look how he sets himself up and starts swinging before the ball arrives, you can't do that on PES.
 
Decent Ref, advantage rule, quick free kicks and no BS replay after every foul would make the game immensively more enjoyble. And a button for highlight (no compulsory long replay).

The game lacks of intensity due to too many breaks and replays.
 
Rob92 said:
I have to agree about a button combo to trigger acrobatic attempts - in real life you decide what you're going to do early, set yourself up for it, then execute.
In PES 2011, the proper volleys look horrible - always rushed with no backswing, because the player is standing perfectly still until a split second before they actually strike the ball...

YouTube - Scholes VS Aston Villa

Look how he sets himself up and starts swinging before the ball arrives, you can't do that on PES.
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But are you not setting up the Bicycle early as your shot of choice by choosing to press shoot before the ball has even began to drop Rob ? I much prefer this system. Having a designated 'Acrobatic' shot reeks of 'Arcade' to me personally.
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
But are you not setting up the Bicycle early as your shot of choice by choosing to press shoot before the ball has even began to drop Rob ?
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Hmm, only if the ball is arriving at an awkward angle/height for a regular volley should the game think you want a bicycle kick.

In real life, you decide that you're going to have a dig at goal as soon as you see the ball come your way, you don't wait until the ball is right at you, then go "shit! I need to hit this!".

There's no setting up or backswing with the current system, and it just looks awful.

Also, if the game wants you to press shoot exactly when you want the ball to be struck, why is the same not applicable to tackling (where just holding a button will run into the ball carrier and tackle them automatically), crossing (where the player runs up to the ball and hits it, rather than stretching/sliding unless he's under pressure) and passing (same as crossing).

Jimmy G-Force said:
I much prefer this system. Having a designated 'Acrobatic' shot reeks of 'Arcade' to me personally.
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True, would be better if the game's logic were just improved, you never saw the shitty scissor-volleys as often in PES5/6 (not that I'm saying those games were better, they weren't).
 
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Thats the biggest change this year though Rob, the timing of the volleys and headers. In days gone by, as soon as you had pressed to whip the ball in from the wings, you could just hold shoot, and when the ball did arrive, voila, perfect connection. That isnt the case anymore, and I'm all for adding this little technical replication, timing is paramount now. It's also the determining factor in deciding whether to volley or Bicycle Kick, or header or diving header.

I think the tackling needs looking at, they need to change it back to the PES 2011 demo system, which is, as you say, timing related. I just fear they changed the tackling on full release to keep the more casual player happy. Or at least thats how I see it. A proper tackling system like the demo makes the game more simulated and therefore hardcore based.

I think the crossing is brilliant on this game, although I have found it easier at times with the R2 tip you mentioned. It still replicates the need for space for a clean cross, and forces the ability to learn to create that yard for a unhindered delivery. Very impressed on how they managed to implement that this year.
 
I like the timing aspect as well, but something has to change.

Maybe you could tap (or hold) the shot button to make your player "prepare" to shoot, and then tap it again to execute the shot? Means you could get your player to take their time when they have time and space, but make them hit a quick snapshot with a double tap ("David Beckham Soccer" on PS1 had a double-tap snapshot, worked well imo).
Probably too complex for the casuals so wouldn't get implemented though.

I like the crossing too, but for most people there's no point in learning the system, as triple-tapping or cutbacking will yield better results anyway...
 
do you like how players shoot bicycle kick when not needed? i don't like that and this button will allow you to shoot normally, this bicycle kicks make game unreal.
and i don't understand why is this problem for you, even when you are given choice to enable or disable button.
 
giorgigiorgi said:
1. there shouldn't be San Siro and Giusppe Meazza stadiums separately, its one stadium Milan and Inter have one stadium that is called San Siro or Giuseppe Meazza, more stadiums.
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There definitely SHOULD be 2 separate San Siro's, if Konami can't create separate adboards for Milan and Inter.

1. Better stadium creation, what we have now is a bad joke - there should be at least 4x more options to choose from, otherwise it has no sense.
2. Create own adboards and asign them to as many teams as we want (as many adboards to as many teams of course).
3. Better moves for players. Now they look like they're made from wood and are unable to move in a human-like way.
4. 360 control. I want to shoot WHERE I WANT, just like in FIFA.
5. More cameras, 2 end-to-end ones - one from behind one goal, the other one reversed.
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
I just fear they changed the tackling on full release to keep the more casual player happy. Or at least thats how I see it.
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Yeah, and it was a terrible mistake because the casual player isn't going to like PES anyway. There's so much to learn before you can play the way you want to, it's just not a game for casuals (not that there's anything wrong with being a game for casuals, just that if you're going to cater to the hardcore sim fan rather than the casual, you have to go the full mile and not mess about trying to please people who won't like the game anyway... or you just dilute the sim aspect).

Imagine how different online play in the lobbies would be if you couldn't just mash pressure buttons to defend. That kind of mindless defending + through balls + low crosses + a bit of luck, and a lousy player can often beat a good player. Shouldn't be this way if the game's supposed to be a sophisticated, technical simulation. Konami should have the courage of their convictions and not do half measures. Casuals are always going to play FIFA, let's face it.
 
defenders are sliding too much, instead of covering free forwards in the box they slide on one player with the ball, none of defenders slide in the box if not extremely necessary, but in pes they do, would be better if defenders blocked or covered forwards more often and slide less.
 
RE: The paul scholes goal kick thing

That's because the shooting is almost instant and designed to literally strike the ball straight away no matter what body position you have. It's a good thing in that it means for normal shots you have to time it when your body position is in a good shooting position so to speak but it definitely hinders volleys and often means we keep seeing those really unnecessary bicycle kicks. Which reminds me, they need to work on physics (which i guess they will) because it just makes no sense how you're able to generate so much power from the aforementioned bicycle kicks.
 
Pere Ubu said:
Yeah, and it was a terrible mistake because the casual player isn't going to like PES anyway. There's so much to learn before you can play the way you want to, it's just not a game for casuals (not that there's anything wrong with being a game for casuals, just that if you're going to cater to the hardcore sim fan rather than the casual, you have to go the full mile and not mess about trying to please people who won't like the game anyway... or you just dilute the sim aspect).

Imagine how different online play in the lobbies would be if you couldn't just mash pressure buttons to defend. That kind of mindless defending + through balls + low crosses + a bit of luck, and a lousy player can often beat a good player. Shouldn't be this way if the game's supposed to be a sophisticated, technical simulation. Konami should have the courage of their convictions and not do half measures. Casuals are always going to play FIFA, let's face it.
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PES online can be a casuals paradise, especially if there's a bit of lag.

World class squad (inc. speed merchants) + quick passing + stupid wide formations + through balls + low crosses = Goals.

Pressure + endless slide tackling = Sometimes, almost impossible to break down.

If you don't care about the intricacies, and want to just win at all costs, PES still allows you to play that way, and succeed at it... I bet the "elite" PES players online, and the ones who win these (pathetic) offline tournament/convention things don't do it with realistic football.

I havn't come across many fellow "footballers" in online PES, most seem to play FIFA-esque bullshit.
 
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Pere Ubu said:
Yeah, and it was a terrible mistake because the casual player isn't going to like PES anyway. There's so much to learn before you can play the way you want to, it's just not a game for casuals (not that there's anything wrong with being a game for casuals, just that if you're going to cater to the hardcore sim fan rather than the casual, you have to go the full mile and not mess about trying to please people who won't like the game anyway... or you just dilute the sim aspect).

Imagine how different online play in the lobbies would be if you couldn't just mash pressure buttons to defend. That kind of mindless defending + through balls + low crosses + a bit of luck, and a lousy player can often beat a good player. Shouldn't be this way if the game's supposed to be a sophisticated, technical simulation. Konami should have the courage of their convictions and not do half measures. Casuals are always going to play FIFA, let's face it.
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I disagree. First of all, myself being a casual player, meaning I'm not as good as gamers in button smashing, I want to enjoy a football simulation and not a video game. This means that even if I'm not the best on the control pad, I still may have a good chance enjoying the game and giving the hardcore gaming crowd a game as long as I have a better footballing mind. Which is why I play PES and not FIFA. What I am trying to say is that you can be a casual gamer and a hardcore sim fan and still enjoy the game. If a lousy player can beat you, then maybe you're not good enough. Or maybe they are lucky. But that's the whole point. Life ain't perfect and the same rule applies to football and thankfully to PES, which I adore because it is much much more random and life-like than other games.
 
Simcut said:
By the way, someone needs to summarise all our viewpoints and send it on to the Konami Europe team. Evo-web is a legendary PES forum and Konami should listen to our feedback :)
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Totally agree.

But for some reason Konami has associated itself with lesser forums which are just full of dross.
 
Designating that you want to try an acrobatic volley is a bad idea if done wrongly. FIFA's of 10 years ago would have this, where yu could choose to head or volley, and I can guarantee from experience that it would screw up online considerably. It would also take away some of the spontaneity of the occasion - the more fiddly you make the controls then the more that the gameplay is about the thing in your hand (leave it) than the action on the screen. FIFA at the moment has so, so many button combinations, and that means that the more realistic actions are made inaccessible to the masses, who instead play in a ridiculous and crude way - and succeed because the game is balanced to be playable for them.

Good gameplay design for a football sim is about making realism at the centre of the game but making it easy to harness. Doing a body feint and pushing the ball diagonally past a challenge by wiggling the left stick to one side and then the other is far easier and more instinctive than holding L2, flicking sideways on the right stick and then waiting that crucial few tenths of a second for the game to accept the input and start the relative animations. Realism should be made simple to control with the depth coming from how you use it, rather than have realism as an option that requires more complicated controls and isnt necessarily enough of an advantage to learn.

I'm happy with keeping things much like the Top Spin, hold and then release at the right time, system that PES has used since the PS2 days. Maybe things like the body stance should be more indicative of what type of shot they would try if you started pressing at that moment, and definitely the logic needs improving to cut down on the scissor kicks - at the very least use other, less agile alternatives dammit! But it should stay as a one button, one press system.
 
The need to fix the ball physics for shooting and shot animations.

Sometimes you'd see a looped volley animation with backspin or a finesse shot across the box have inward curl on it. Actually come to think of it, every shot seems to have backspin on it.
 
K-B-K said:
Actually come to think of it, every shot seems to have backspin on it.
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I have mentioned this a lot of times and finally someone else sees this too. The funny (tragic) truth is that every action adds backspin to the ball, not only shots. It doesn't matter how the ball is hit, they always add backspin. The only exception I have seen is freekicks where you can get a top spin shot.

They need to scrap this weird fake physics they use and implement proper ball physics with Magnus effect (lift). And it's not hard to implement. I've used a game engine myself with standard physics system (gravity and all that) and just hook in all calculations for the Magnus force and together with Reynolds number and you get very realistic football physics. The calculations and all necessary numbers from wind tunnels are already out freely for anyone to use (or in cheap game physics books). Realistic drag is also very easy to implement. There is no excuse at all unless the game breaks if they don't have scripted ball behaviour, and I doubt that is the case.

Really hope they fix the ball physics for PES 2012.
 
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K-B-K said:
The need to fix the ball physics for shooting and shot animations.

Sometimes you'd see a looped volley animation with backspin or a finesse shot across the box have inward curl on it. Actually come to think of it, every shot seems to have backspin on it.
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Big fail by Konami in this department. Shot animations are often too unrealistic. In pes2010 they are Ok but Konami managed to screw it up.
I agree about the horrible ball physics too

I am the only who think BAL has potential to be the best mode? I mean, with a good gameplay, more details and difficulty, it could be very attractive.
 
I do agree with some of the points said by others here though I seem to think differently to many as it seems that alot of fans (here included) seem to focus very much on little gameplay tweaks that they want altered while I'm 'perhaps unrealistically', looking for a real change in the game to make it not only on the pitch more real but try and recreate the genuine experience of being a football player or manager off the pitch too...
Of course much of my time on Pro Evo is focused on the Master League so it does dictate how I want the game to change and remain interesting to me...


The commentary
The commentary needs to be completely overhauled ...it needs to be much more 'real' and adaptive to how the game or tournament progresses. This should be a main feature of the Master League in particular. For example if your club is having Financial difficulties the commentary could refer to it or your in negotions with a big player or have alot of injuries, or you change your normal formation, etc....all should be part of the mix that could be mentioned

Perhaps having various types of Commentaries titled under 'Comedy', 'Evil', 'Female', etc..could work either or have it an added extra..

Celebrations

Why not add a bit more freedom to the celebrations after goal scoring instead of having a choosen celebration or two for each player we control where the player runs to after scoring and depending on the buttons you press we have a choice of numerous celebrations...for instance you could walk or just stand with your head in the air like that famous Cantona pose if you wanted or go completely crazy sprinting and jumping over the barriers...it would make them much more unique

Gameplay in Master League

Surely its time to bring us behind the scenes more??….with Offices, secretary, footie Agents and players to deal with… in other words instead of opening up a page with a scout’s written description we instead get a 3rd or first person part of the game showing something like a knock on the door and our scout wanting to show us some footage of a great kid he’s found.
It could be that as soon as the whistle blows to end a match the camera again changes to a 3rd or first person game and you (the Manager) can complain or shake hands to refs or oposition …we then control him down the tunnel to your team where you have choices on how to react to them after the match…..we should have to deal with the media, stupid players getting themselves into trouble or training daily
Can you imagine to be losing a game at half time and having the oportunity to storm in the dressing room as Manager to give some of the old hairdryer treatment to them lol…..and then the game would adapt to that decision and the players could either play worse or better.

Indoor Football
I do also think that indoor football could be a fun extra feature aswell with five a side matches.....
 
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gameplay is just fine all it needs is some extra content really, i have to update this matter more frequently so we dont go beyond our expectations of pes, im really enjoying pes 2011, theres nothing wrong with the game, the game just grows on you by the day, fingers crossed that there is no dramatic changes in pes 2012, i can't see it happening anyway because the graphic has gone far enough to be run on the pc otherwise the cost of running th game will be higher so no dramas with pes 2012, no drastic changes or winging anymore.
 
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Did you hit a knuckleball shot? The goal compilation I posted the other day on the video thread has a shot from Dempsey where it dips over the keeper from 18 yards out...and I used a normal shot - not a chip shot.

I have played PES on my friend's Xbox and his is not patched - he hit about 3 shots with Messi where the ball looped in. So I have to agree that topspin does exist but it must be infrequent. I actually thought it was good when I saw it on FIFA 11 but then it would happen on every shot! Which is not realistic. It has to be context specific and stat dependent. I thought the manual shooting on FIFA World Cup was perfect. I used to see late swerve and dip.
 
Coop masterleague on line would be awsome.I get bored easily on my own and my mates all live in different places (we are not college students any more...).

90% night games in ML are a game killer, last nite i played 5 games all at night. just plainly wrong.

I am sure they'll nail a masterpiece gameplaywise, it just needs more atmosphere and variety to make the ML as deep and enjoyble as possibile. I kinda feel i am playing almost the same game over and over right now. more stadia, better commentary, real chants, specific club intro and more goal celebrations, more cameras (bring back broadcast from pes 2010) etc.

Offers from other clubs and the possibility to be called up to play some national teams in the world cup would be awsome too!
 
tc811 said:
I hit a curling topspin shot with Xavi today. It can be done.
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CalcioCalabrese said:
Did you hit a knuckleball shot? The goal compilation I posted the other day on the video thread has a shot from Dempsey where it dips over the keeper from 18 yards out...and I used a normal shot - not a chip shot.
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Maybe you're right, but I would love to see replays of it with close up on the ball to see the spin. Because the ball physics is very wonky and they add some fake top spin on the ball sometimes while the ball is spinning backwards. But it's not realistic top spin though (you don't have the calculated lift/pulling in the ball from amount of spin). My remark was about what actually happens with the spin of the ball (which seems completely scripted and not contextual, you can kick UP on the ball and it still spins backward).

FIFA 09 added the Magnus effect and it made a huge difference. Problem with EA is that they seemed to mess up the values so they ended up with floaty ball physics. But I've heard it's pretty good in FIFA 11.
 
I quite like the idea of bringing new meaning to celebrations. Not exactly like Fifa's do your own but if there was a more cinematic/broadcast style and much more variety instead of the players running like they're going to scream their heads off but getting to the ground and standing there merely raising their arm in celebration for 3 seconds before walking off. I do like the way you have to watch them in Fifa. In multiplayer modes it gets you riled when the opposition score but you know that's football for you.

Personally i think celebrations should be have a more prominent role in the game rather than being shrugged off as an after thought. Everybody skips most of them because they suck and there's no reason to watch them at the moment. If they put effort into them it'd raise the atmosphere in the game greatly because let's face it atmosphere in PES is pretty lame as it stands (commentary, crowd, SFX etc). Similar to my FIFA example I wouldn't even mind having to watch them, or at least having a real option not to be able skip them (besides self-control).

The ability to see the cam run over to your player and him holla into the camera a la Booney could prove to be interesting.
 
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I think the great thing that could be done with celebrations is to make them avenues for realism. Like if Torres scored for Chelsea (one day he might) then he shouldn't celebrate as a mark of respect.
Or if the goal was cheap, the AI should make it a more subdued celebration but if it was a cracker, they should run around like Vinnie Montella or Tardelli in the 82 World Cup haha.
 
Gab_ said:
Maybe you're right, but I would love to see replays of it with close up on the ball to see the spin. Because the ball physics is very wonky and they add some fake top spin on the ball sometimes while the ball is spinning backwards. But it's not realistic top spin though (you don't have the calculated lift/pulling in the ball from amount of spin). My remark was about what actually happens with the spin of the ball (which seems completely scripted and not contextual, you can kick UP on the ball and it still spins backward).

FIFA 09 added the Magnus effect and it made a huge difference. Problem with EA is that they seemed to mess up the values so they ended up with floaty ball physics. But I've heard it's pretty good in FIFA 11.
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I know what you're saying. Would be interesting to know if they implemented properly. I think FIFA 11 is off the mark with shooting. World Cup and FIFA 10 were good. You could hit some crackers and the ball was less floaty than FIFA 09.
 
I think some people mistake gravity for topspin... If you give the ball enough air time, it will obviously begin to drop before it reaches the goal.

I saw a YouTube clip of a "dipping" shot and it turned out to be a scuffed shot under pressure that looped over the keeper.

I'm afraid I don't believe that top spin shots exist in PES 2011 (except for freekicks), until I actually see it anyway (even then, why so rare?).
 
Rob92 said:
I think some people mistake gravity for topspin... If you give the ball enough air time, it will obviously begin to drop before it reaches the goal.

I saw a YouTube clip of a "dipping" shot and it turned out to be a scuffed shot under pressure that looped over the keeper.

I'm afraid I don't believe that top spin shots exist in PES 2011 (except for freekicks), until I actually see it anyway (even then, why so rare?).
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Well i think the knuckleball shot can make it dip and swerve. Otherwise outside of free kicks, most players dont make it dip very often if at all. In that regard, I think PES is realistic lol.
 
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