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PES 2012: The Wish List

Top spin shots happens all the time in real life, it is certainly not a rare thing. Same with passes, kick up on the ball and it's top spin. Backspin shots might be even more rare actually since you have to kick down on the ball, most people do sweeping motion and not stabbing motion.
 
Well are you wanting the "animation" to change or the ball physics? Because the only way to get a ball to dip with any kind of consistency is to stab at it. Ala Cristiano Ronaldo. Most players do not sweep over the ball like a tennis forehand. That's the way to generate topspin and get the ball to dip. A long pass is generally where you lean back or slice through the ball and shooting like most players do I think is represented well.
When you say top spin shots happen all the time - what do you mean? Do you mean a flat rocket from 20 yards that flies top corner has top spin on the ball? And going back to my first question - do you just want the ball animation to change on such a shot so that it looks to be topspinning instead of backspinning? Or do you actually want the ball to dip?

Not having a go at anyone but if we're going to put forward suggestions that will make a difference, I think it's good to thrash out the ideas here so we can be clear for Konami.
 
i am sorry but have to say that, i don't enjoy playing pes after pes 2009, everything has been changed.
in previous i enjoyed football, it was more like a football, now it's not.
i think that if pes 2006 had only graphics from pes 2011 pes 6 would better to play, i mean playing football match, not ML or BAL just playing match.
 
I would like real weather effects, meaning that major statiums should be connected with accuweather or yahoo weather bringing you live weather effects in ROME , AMSTERDAM or where ever the stadium the game is played.

Imagine living in Barcelona, playing with barcelona and i rains outside as it will be raining in the game it self. I hope i make sense.
 
CalcioCalabrese said:
Well are you wanting the "animation" to change or the ball physics? Because the only way to get a ball to dip with any kind of consistency is to stab at it. Ala Cristiano Ronaldo. Most players do not sweep over the ball like a tennis forehand. That's the way to generate topspin and get the ball to dip. A long pass is generally where you lean back or slice through the ball and shooting like most players do I think is represented well.
When you say top spin shots happen all the time - what do you mean? Do you mean a flat rocket from 20 yards that flies top corner has top spin on the ball? And going back to my first question - do you just want the ball animation to change on such a shot so that it looks to be topspinning instead of backspinning? Or do you actually want the ball to dip?

Not having a go at anyone but if we're going to put forward suggestions that will make a difference, I think it's good to thrash out the ideas here so we can be clear for Konami.
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Why would I want top spin on a rocket ala steve gerrard shot? You seem to think of top spin as one type of CRonaldo shot, I'm talking about realistic ball physics, not a certain type of shot. If you kick up on the ball it will spin forward, that's all that I am saying. It doesn't matter if it is a weak shot placed side of the keeper, as long as you hit it on the way up and not slicing the ball, it will spin forward... can't believe I have to write this out.

A ball moves different in the air (and bounce different) depending on the actual spin on the ball (this is why the Magnus effect is so important). Your Cronaldo examples actually are pretty much no spin at all (If you mean the wobbly ones). I'm pretty sure these kind of shots in PES are completely scripted and have nothing to do with the actual spin on the ball.

I watched a bunch of goal compilations and highlights and passes, crosses and shots often have top spin. I just don't like fake ball physics that PES have.
 
Well now I understand what you're asking. No offence but just asking for topsin could have implied purely from an animation perspective. Now you have clarified that you actually want the Magnus effect properly implemented so that topspin effects on a ball will make the ball move realistically.
You might think I'm being a prick about it but like I said before, if we're going to get changes implemented exactly as we want them, we must be clear with suggestions to Konami dont you think? Im not being difficult but I've seen FIFA forums where people complain and make a suggestion that gets implemented but its not really the issue that needed to be fixed. And yes you're right about the CR shots. Most don't have spin. They just float around.
I mean the movement of players and animations is still not as seamless as it could be. I think the game needs some polish and better integration to make it look smoother rather than any wholesale changes.
 
It woul´d be great, to see the substitutions player in the bench during the game, or the warming of these players. And it would be amazing to see the emotions of the players and the coach in the bench, after a goal etc.
 
CalcioCalabrese said:
Well now I understand what you're asking. No offence but just asking for topsin could have implied purely from an animation perspective. Now you have clarified that you actually want the Magnus effect properly implemented so that topspin effects on a ball will make the ball move realistically.
You might think I'm being a prick about it but like I said before, if we're going to get changes implemented exactly as we want them, we must be clear with suggestions to Konami dont you think? Im not being difficult but I've seen FIFA forums where people complain and make a suggestion that gets implemented but its not really the issue that needed to be fixed. And yes you're right about the CR shots. Most don't have spin. They just float around.
I mean the movement of players and animations is still not as seamless as it could be. I think the game needs some polish and better integration to make it look smoother rather than any wholesale changes.
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I've mentioned the Magnus effect from the start. I doubt Konami reads this boards anyway. I have sent messages about Magnus effect to Jon Murphy's twitter before, so with any luck he has seen it. But even if that's the case he probably didn't care.

One important thing for PES 2012 is that the player with the ball is aware of opponents close by. Currently they don't try to shield the ball at all. It looks pretty silly when the AI just keep running in to each other at tight spaces instead of shielding and get away with the ball. Looks very much like when you watch young children play football.

Another thing I have noticed is that the AI get updated far to seldom in who "has" the ball. It seems to only update when someone actually physically touches the ball, even if it is obvious that this person will take it. So you have a team doing a counter attack and loses the ball, but everyone in the team keeps running forward until the opponent actually take the loose ball. This is especially a problem in the penalty box where the defenders can just stand around watching the action because they don't "get" that the ball will roll up to an opponent. I'm explaining pretty bad, but maybe someone knows what I'm talking about.
 
Gab_ said:
I've mentioned the Magnus effect from the start. I doubt Konami reads this boards anyway. I have sent messages about Magnus effect to Jon Murphy's twitter before, so with any luck he has seen it. But even if that's the case he probably didn't care.

One important thing for PES 2012 is that the player with the ball is aware of opponents close by. Currently they don't try to shield the ball at all. It looks pretty silly when the AI just keep running in to each other at tight spaces instead of shielding and get away with the ball. Looks very much like when you watch young children play football.

Another thing I have noticed is that the AI get updated far to seldom in who "has" the ball. It seems to only update when someone actually physically touches the ball, even if it is obvious that this person will take it. So you have a team doing a counter attack and loses the ball, but everyone in the team keeps running forward until the opponent actually take the loose ball. This is especially a problem in the penalty box where the defenders can just stand around watching the action because they don't "get" that the ball will roll up to an opponent. I'm explaining pretty bad, but maybe someone knows what I'm talking about.
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I know what you mean.

For example, if your centre-back takes a very heavy first touch, which a striker is 100% going to intercept, instead of covering the space in behind, your other defenders spread out and run forward, like they're still expecting a pass, leaving the opposing striker a clear path to goal.

Sometimes happens on intercepted manual passes too, your whole team will run forward as if you're still comfortably in possession, right up until the opponent controls the ball, leaving you open to counter attacks.

Ball physics - I just don't get why Konami fail, PES 2011's physics are still in the PS2 era...
 
Improve Player team AI: I'm controlling a team of athletes not babies, they should be able to hold their relatively well without me having to constantly micro-manage.

Player Switching: The issue above wouldn't be such a problem if they would buckle down and fix the bloody switching system. Do they not understand that it is a vital part of the game?

Defensive AI: The Defensive AI in PES 11 depends way too much on animation glitches and inconsistency of the game mechanics to do a good job. On a tactical level the positioning is mostly great though.

Tackling System: Konami needs to stick to their guns for PES 2012. Tackling in the demo was a much better experience than in the final game. It is too inconsistent now and needs to be addressed.

I really don't care about graphics and all that other stuff. Fix the gameplay experience, as that's what i'll be doing for 100+ hours.
 
Rob92 said:
Ball physics - I just don't get why Konami fail, PES 2011's physics are still in the PS2 era...
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It is even worse now that I now how easy it is to implement realistic ball physics. What's needed is basically gravity, drag, magnus effect (lift and angular drag), normal friction and rolling friction. That's pretty much it I think. A standard physics engine usually gives you pretty much everything except Magnus force and rolling friction. And rolling friction on a flat surface like a football pitch is super simple.

Konami don't seem to use proper rolling friction either, because the ball behaves like it is using sliding friction like a sliding box. When you do, it will slow down quickly like it does in PES 2012. Not sure though, because Yair managed to fix this, so it might be that Konami just messed up their values.

Maybe they don't think ball physics needs to be more accurate? I don't know. Since the ball is in the focus all the time, you'd think they would like to nail its behaviour. In the PS2 days you might have had to cheat, but these consoles obviously have enough CPU power to add a couple of more calculations each CPU cycle.


I'm putting a vote on player switching too. When you play 2 players on the same team, the cursor can change in the middle of when one player have the ball. It just switches cursors randomly and you never get to be the one you need to be. Usually on crosses it switches the cursor to someone else just when you are going to get the ball. It's madness.
 
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Gab - sorry but I did see you talk about Magnus effect early on but I had only read the last couple of points about topspin. Now I know they're related ;) You work in the physics field? Send your points to Konami or whoever this Yair guy is. I assume he's patched the PC version?

If there's people in the community picking up obvious errors that can be pinpointed, half of Konami's work is done. They just have to fix it...

I agree with the reaction times though. It often feels like they're like trucks with bad brakes...they just keep moving in the same direction for a couple of steps - by then it's too late. I do like the positioning and defensive positions taken up though. It's just the slow reaction times that kills it.
 
Re: my suggestions for pes 2012

I am not even going to start. How many threads like this did we have in the past and only 1% got implimented. Poor us the consumer.
 
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It would be nice if one-twos had to be timed and aimed more carefully. As it is, people can just one-two up the pitch far too easily, and it's a cheap way to take a defender out of the game - because as soon as the first ball is played the AI forces the defender to sprint towards the man in possession (even if it's obvious that this is not a good idea because there's a runner getting in behind him), so the man in possession can just tap it forward to the runner and leave the defender completely stranded. And usually, none of the rest of your defence seem to notice what's happening, so there's no cover. You don't get proper control of any defender at any point, so you just have to sit and watch the whole defence split open like schoolboys and let the opposition striker through on goal.
 
I think being able to use the right stick to quickly select the player you want would help greatly and Konami would have to speed up the reaction time of player when you switch to them. If you can take control of the player YOU want at the time YOU want, the defending aspect will improve in my opinion.
 
Pere Ubu said:
It would be nice if one-twos had to be timed and aimed more carefully. As it is, people can just one-two up the pitch far too easily, and it's a cheap way to take a defender out of the game - because as soon as the first ball is played the AI forces the defender to sprint towards the man in possession (even if it's obvious that this is not a good idea because there's a runner getting in behind him), so the man in possession can just tap it forward to the runner and leave the defender completely stranded. And usually, none of the rest of your defence seem to notice what's happening, so there's no cover. You don't get proper control of any defender at any point, so you just have to sit and watch the whole defence split open like schoolboys and let the opposition striker through on goal.
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imo, that's the worst problem about PES 2011, defending against a real player is disgusting
try to play online with somebody that has a player with speed merchant card, and you will have a hard time, not to mention that one-twos also make the game a bit easier if you attack, and a lot harder if you defend

ball physics need a little touch too, and that silly scissors kick that happens 3 times every match, referees are kind of lame too, but that's how they are in real life LOL
 
Id like to import time (graphic) like this:
When match start with Day/Fine during match,shadows etc move,as time on match going,so that game finish in Day/Afternoon.
Or start match Day/Afternoon and finish with night.It would be nice to see that :D :P
 
I'd like to be able to edit players directly from the Master League, e.g change boots etc.

I know you can do this from the main edit menu but if you buy a young player they can be sometimes impossible to find in the main edit list,it would be handy to do this directly.

It would also be cool to mirror real life fan reactions, e.g you sign a big name player to your club and when you play his old club away the home fans boo him every time he touches the ball!
 
I only ever play MLO so for me this is where i want to see an improvement (im not saying other area's shouldn't be improved).


Either make it fantasy football style (start with X amount of money and can only afford 1-2 stars).

Stick with the same principal they have but improve how the divisions works ..Example of some kind of tier system and a larger difference in rating required to move up into the next division.

DIV 5 = only allowed players with a maximum rating of 70,
Div 4 = only allowed players with a maximum rating of 75
Div 3 = only allowed players with a maximum rating of 80 (possibly 85)
Div 2 = only allowed players with a maximum rating of 85 (possibly 90)
Div 1 = No restriction of what players can be purchased

If you move from div 5 upward the money you have stored can be then spent to improve your side but if you fail to stay in div 4 you must then sell these players so you meet the requirements to play in div 5 again (in real life you wouldn't see Ronaldo, Messi etc playing in DIV 5 so it should be attempted to show some realism in game).

The amount of star teams sitting in div 5 for tbh an easy time is shocking and makes the game no fun at all (i couldn't even imagine how a new starter would feel).
 
it is very easy now to score free kicks.
own goals - players can't stop the ball and it makes many stupid own goals. one more thing, when opponent repels the ball and it goes out for throw in, your player runs for the ball and touches it and opponent gets the throw in, it needs to be fixed.
more control on players and more realistic free kicks not easy or difficult.
 
giorgigiorgi said:
it is very easy now to score free kicks.
own goals - players can't stop the ball and it makes many stupid own goals. one more thing, when opponent repels the ball and it goes out for throw in, your player runs for the ball and touches it and opponent gets the throw in, it needs to be fixed.
more control on players and more realistic free kicks not easy or difficult.
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You can use super cancel to stop your player most of the time. I do it to stop players chasing balls that they can't catch. Save their energy levels lol

When you say free kicks are too easy now...maybe you've got good at them. Doesn't mean they have to make it harder for everyone. I get a lot on target but don't score that many and don't concede that many. I think the success rate is pretty realistic.
 
when i am losing match and it is last minutes of the game, after my attack they win throw in and when they are to pass from throw in all of my players are going back and opponents are free to pass from throw in. they should stay front not go back.
 
I don't score many free kicks myself...

I've played against people who do these shitty unrealistic weak free kicks which go in nearly every time... Two in one game the other day.

I think I've only conceded 3 really good free kicks that have been struck well, probably scored about 20 in total (in a lot of games), I wouldn't want them to become more difficult.
 
When you play against the AI they score 90% of the freekicks on highest difficulty. But all you have to do is cut down freekick attribute about 30% for every player and it's more realistic. They still do these silly weak freekicks though.
 
Gab_ said:
When you play against the AI they score 90% of the freekicks on highest difficulty. But all you have to do is cut down freekick attribute about 30% for every player and it's more realistic. They still do these silly weak freekicks though.
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When the AI get a free kick, I add a couple of players to the wall, then get control of the keeper (L1+R3) and run him to the other side of the goal (near corner)...

The AI never scores free kicks now :P.
 
Rob92 said:
When the AI get a free kick, I add a couple of players to the wall, then get control of the keeper (L1+R3) and run him to the other side of the goal (near corner)...

The AI never scores free kicks now :P.
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I never thought about taking control of the keeper, nice one.
 
my biggest wish is that i hope in 2012 the game is restored to it's original state in terms of gameplay, if i was to elaborate i mean i want more control over the player and i want to perform more easier skill moves and dribbling, and fix the player switching issue where players just wait, i don't want konami to introduce new robotics on the animations but rather small alterations that are more pes, and finally that the system requirements are not beyond average pc's.
 
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R2 doesn't work when a player has a speed merchant i mean when player should kick the ball ahead and run for it it doesn't work when player has special ability "speed merchant" Ronaldo has it and he can not do this, i think all of players should have ability to kick ball ahead and then run for it, also players can not do this when running straight you should change direction of player while running and press R2 if you want a player to do this action so i think that it should be able in any case all of player should have ability to kick ball ahead and run for it then it depends on how high speed player has it should be possible even if player has "speed merchant".
 
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