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PES 2012 PC Demo talk

aitk3n said:
i don't understand why people are complaining, i don't want this game to turn into a complete speed fest where all u need is fast players to win games or beat a player, which in reality its not the case, i think the dribbling and pace is spot on and wouldn't change it at all
Click to expand...

Absolutely agree. I think Konami managed to find the right balance between the speed and playable game. IMHO!:BYE:
 
pes2012gonbegood said:
I made a vid to show 2 frustrating things from the demo, I left out obvious things like goalkeepers and shooting because most agree on that, but on this some people don't see a problem, so this vid obviously shows what can't be denied.

YouTube - PES2012flaws.wmv
Click to expand...

Players at this level are all greats. The diference is that there are few (Messi, Ronaldo, Xavi, Sjneider) that are more dificult to catch. What do you want? That a highly professional player that plys for a huge big club had bricks on their feets? If that happen, what would it be with players of small teams that aren't in the demo? They are all human beeings, professional players and they trainning hard everyday of their lives, so i think they all know how to keep a ball in their feets!
 
ProEvoSoccer said:
Players at this level are all greats. The diference is that there are few (Messi, Ronaldo, Xavi, Sjneider) that are more dificult to catch. What do you want? That a highly professional player that plys for a huge big club had bricks on their feets? If that happen, what would it be with players of small teams that aren't in the demo? They are all human beeings, professional players and they trainning hard everyday of their lives, so i think they all know how to keep a ball in their feets!
Click to expand...

Are you serious? Someone with 70 ball control ( which is what Vidic has, well actually he has 69 ) means that when he sprints at full speed he keeps the ball 20cm away from his foot at all times, how the hell can you claim thats realistic?? do you even watch soccer?
 
pes2012gonbegood said:
Are you serious? Someone with 70 ball control ( which is what Vidic has, well actually he has 69 ) means that when he sprints at full speed he keeps the ball 20cm away from his foot at all times, how the hell can you claim thats realistic?? do you even watch soccer?
Click to expand...


Just cool it, hes just as much entitled to an opinion as You are.
Dont get carried away mate.
 
He's also implying renowned dribblers never make mistakes too.

The current dribbling system is incredibly basic. I find it odd. Somebody posted a video yesterday and i've been mulling that over and it's clear that dribbling needs work. Watch the video it's hardly clear which foot the dribbler uses in wide cam and it looks almost like he's just running into the ball, if you look closer you'll see he pushes the ball in the same way each time and it moves in the exact same direction with the exact same amount of speed each time.

What we're seeing concerning these attackers (like Robinho) is all of the above but with the added annoyance of incredibly overly perfect ball control (even when under pressure) that Konami have decided to implement perhaps in order to clearly differentiate between average defenders who are now good at dribbling and some attackers who are now god-like at it.
 
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My impressions from the demo so far can be accessed and discussed here: http://tikitakatoom.blogspot.com/

The Good

  • PES 2011 was engineered for freedom and this year Konami have not only stuck to the slogan, the freedom available in the game is more pronounced and more accessible than before. In a sentence, play it your way. Target man, possession, counter attack, down the wings, down the middle. It is all about getting the best out of the players you got.
  • Stumbling animation is gone.
  • Switching system is a simple yet vital addition. Although it still works quite bad on Assisted.
  • Fewer loading times have lead to a more seamless gameplay.
  • Player response is very very good, but not in an unrealistic FIFA way i.e. ball sticking to the players feet. The momentum is still there, just much faster response time and therefore...
  • ...Dribbling has improved significantly. And my god, isn't it so much fun. In this category, it is the best football game to date in my opinion. However, there are currently too many players that can dribble past others quite easily despite not being good dribblers or controllers of the ball. Reminds me of PES 2009 a little, unfortunately.
  • Ball physic is also improved in passing, shooting and crossing. It feels right.
  • Referees are improved as well as collision detection. This was certainly needed as this year PES is also more physical and therefore in need of a decent refereeing system.
  • Player awareness is improved in defence and offence. Awareness of defensive positioning as well as attacking moves are improved significantly.
  • Training mode is not only a way to learn to play the game, it helps in understanding the way Konami have implemented different features of the game and overall is a blast and a truly welcome re-addition.

The Bad

  • While the stumbling behaviour is gone, I sometimes feel the players are too good at getting back on their feet. Almost too aware of the situation while they are stumbling.
  • Player switching in general is still not satisfactory.
  • Players still seem to be walking on a fixed rail in certain situations and you can't change their direction.
  • The CPU sometimes decides to play the pass to a wrong receiver, especially when the two players are slightly aligned with the pass direction.
  • Game feels a little too fast on 0 (zero). This can discourage midfield play.
  • Advantage rule could be implemented better, although it has improved since 2011.
  • Dribbling (as stated in The Good)
  • Not a big fan of the new lighting system. It looks quite dark and gives PES an slight spooky/zombie feel, especially when you see Fletcher shouting.
  • In the sound department, PES is still lacking a lot. The sound effects, for example the ball hitting the bar, are quite bad. Also quality of sounds and effects are not as good the competitors. And what's up with Italian/Brazilian fans roaring 'Yeaaaah!' when their team scores?!
  • Ball physics can still be problematic where it has unrealistic rebounds (off the crossbar for example) or on long balls have too much spin on them and therefore take ages to travel.



The Ugly

  • Player personality is not as pronounced as previous titles. While I was not a fan of elephant touches or the lacklustre shooting system in PES 2011, the majority of players are now too good at ball control, passing and shooting. These abilities and actions should be exclusive to special players with high ratings in the respective stats.
  • Passing is just too good. This was a major concern for me in 2011, and unfortunately you can still see FIFA 10-esque ping-pong passing. It might get better in longer matches, but that should not be used as an excuse since online matches aren't that long anyway. Flair passing also exists in abundance. This should be exclusive to certain players only.
  • Shooting is also a bit too good to be true. Maybe I am too used to 2011's system which was quite hard and took a long time to get the hang of the body shape and the floating ball physics, which by no means I think they were realistic or fun, but I at the same time 2012's shooting system is way too easy to pull off. You can almost shoot from any situation with a lot of them ending up at least on target, regardless of your balance, being pressured or surrounded by opposition defenders. Add this to terrible goalkeeping and I'm already seeing basketball-like scorelines.
  • Defender awareness could be improved a lot. It was quite a big deal in 2011 and unfortunately it is still there despite some improvements. I have witnessed there are still times where the defender fails to intercept or clear a ball just a yard away when he would have in real life, or at times the awareness of the player of the ball going out of play (throw-in, corner, goal kick and even goal-line) is still pretty much non existent, or the defender failing to track balls (especially chipped through balls) by suddenly stopping for no reason. I have lost count of the number of own goals conceded and scored already in the demo. On the other hand, I have seen some defenders trying to intercept balls that they really can't touch by sliding, therefore opening up space for the attackers and before the defender can get up it is already too late
  • Another problem with defending is lack of a physicality when stopping attackers. It can be said as of now, that the attackers can run through the defender at ease where in real life there would be a collision or an interception. I would like an improved jockeying/jostling system where by going into jockeying mode the defender can cover a larger radius in order to stop dribbles or to block shots or crosses.
  • Goalkeepers are in a very bad state right now, however Konami have promised to improve them big time until release so hopefully this won't be a major concern.
  • Unfortunately still a lot of weird, absurd, loose and ugly animations. Also need more variety in animations as they are currently very limited and for example, don't give you a good impression how a ball is hit at all. What happened to those PES 2010 mocaps?
Click to expand...
 
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I agree with mostly all ur points dany. One of the main things that you bring up many times is too little difference between a player with 60~ stat vs a player with 90~ stat, be it dribbling, passing etc.. Hopefully they fix this.
 
Yea, post them. Especially the problem of players being on rails. It completely blows when you make a pass and you can't move the receiving player towards the ball ...or even let the ball go across you.

As soon as the pass is made I should have control over the player the pass was aimed at. I shouldn't have to wait and let the computer decide for me how I am to receive the pass.

This is one of the most important things to sort out imo.
 
Weatherley said:
Yea, post them. Especially the problem of players being on rails. It completely blows when you make a pass and you can't move the receiving player towards the ball ...or even let the ball go across you.

As soon as the pass is made I should have control over the player the pass was aimed at. I shouldn't have to wait and let the computer decide for me how I am to receive the pass.

This is one of the most important things to sort out imo.
Click to expand...

Just press R1+R2 and you have controll over the player.
I installed a community-patch and played against a weak team with barcelona.
There you can see, that the agility is not overrated for all players.
 
Two more gripes.

Sometimes when you rush your keeper out he doesn't seem to know where the ball is or AI drags back and score everytime.

AI freekicks they seem to score 80% of them. only 1 person in a 4 man wall jumps? keeper no chance hope this gets fixed.
 
Its the first next gen demo of Pes that i have played more than 100 games in my ps3,from 08 till 11 i only needed one game and then never look back...and that means something for me.I think that with some adjustments in the final version maybe we have a great and fun game in our hands...i just fear that if they dont change some obvious problems or mistakes the game will be a little frustrating and a kill joy and it will be a shame this year.
My biggest problems are:

* Game speed dosnt feel right,0 speed is arcade fast,i play in -1 but it feels wrong sometimes
* Featherweight players feeling with obvious ice skating sometimes and really floaty player control
* Even players with low stats can turn unhuman fast
* Keepers are non existant for a 2012 game
* Headers,especially in defense are totally wrong in every way,animation,feeling etc...When the ball is in the air and u wait to receive the ball game feels so static and slugish
* Crossing in the box : It seems that i cant place the ball right when crossing because i find that crosses are way too strong and my players in the box most off the times dont want to receive it so they can score.It just feels wrong my Ai movement in the box when i cross the ball most of the times
* Bugged passes and player switching must be sort out
* Ball physics need work too,a hit and miss for me

I hope some things from the above can be sorted out so i can return to a Pes game after 5 years
 
seppovich said:
There you can see, that the agility is not overrated for all players.
Click to expand...

kinda suxx doesnt it?
barca whores are welcome again...
i thought this response increase is gonna help smaller teams to play more technically, how u think about this?

o S i V a 2 1 o said:
* Game speed dosnt feel right,0 speed is arcade fast,i play in -1 but it feels wrong sometimes
* Featherweight players feeling with obvious ice skating sometimes and really floaty player control
* Even players with low stats can turn unhuman fast
Click to expand...

exactly, im worried about this, i want my pes feeling back during control of the players..
 
after playing a lot more games, I've arrived at a rather more balanced overview. these are the major things that bother me the most:

- Super Dribblers; most AI attackers are super dribblers, they can get past just about anyone when in the mood! this is worrying and should be fixed. I'm not expecting an easy opponent, but I expect them to be dangerous in a real way. The famous Maradona(Messi) goal happens too many times.

- Ability Contrast; as many people have said, it's an issue and should be recognized as one from Konami's side. I'm not that radical to say that Vidic and let's say Nani are the same, but from the moderate ability level (the likes of Park) to the highly capable players; you can't see the desired contrast.

- Running; it doesn't seem right to me. sometimes too fast and sometimes too slow, from unexpected players and it's not because of the stamina.

- Ball Control; sometimes, especially when not facing the opposition goal in the box, it's too quick and unbelievable. only very very few players in the world can do that, not every single attacker.

- Shooting; from my experience it's targeted to the center most of the times, even though I have directed it properly.

- Keepers; no need to explain this one!


Minor things that bother me:

- The suspension when a player goes to have a quick free kick. the player touches the ball with his hand, waits a little bit, nothing happens and then a normal freekick, it's been there since two years ago and still haven't been fixed.

- The goal celebration delay. it's a shame it's still there, such a minor programming fix.

- The cut in between animations, it happens sometimes but of course much better than last year.

- There's too many fouls IMO. there should be more than 11, but not too frequently.
 
I'd like to have more control over lofted passes.

Eg.

-Press B for a normal floated high ball (for a target man to head, for instance)

-Press B + R2 for a lower trajectory long ball (for instance, to switch the ball out wide quickly)

ATM all we have is the floated kind. Sometimes you want to fire the ball into the chest of a striker or switch the ball out wide over the head of opposition players but in this demo you can't really.

Maybe it's in but i haven't noticed it in the command list.
 
MJ_Mohsen said:
after playing a lot more games, I've arrived at a rather more balanced overview. these are the major things that bother me the most:

- Super Dribblers; most AI attackers are super dribblers, they can get past just about anyone when in the mood! this is worrying and should be fixed. I'm not expecting an easy opponent, but I expect them to be dangerous in a real way. The famous Maradona(Messi) goal happens too many times.

- Ability Contrast; as many people have said, it's an issue and should be recognized as one from Konami's side. I'm not that radical to say that Vidic and let's say Nani are the same, but from the moderate ability level (the likes of Park) to the highly capable players; you can't see the desired contrast.

- Running; it doesn't seem right to me. sometimes too fast and sometimes too slow, from unexpected players and it's not because of the stamina.

- Ball Control; sometimes, especially when not facing the opposition goal in the box, it's too quick and unbelievable. only very very few players in the world can do that, not every single attacker.

- Shooting; from my experience it's targeted to the center most of the times, even though I have directed it properly.

- Keepers; no need to explain this one!


Minor things that bother me:

- The suspension when a player goes to have a quick free kick. the player touches the ball with his hand, waits a little bit, nothing happens and then a normal freekick, it's been there since two years ago and still haven't been fixed.

- The goal celebration delay. it's a shame it's still there, such a minor programming fix.

- The cut in between animations, it happens sometimes but of course much better than last year.

- There's too many fouls IMO. there should be more than 11, but not too frequently.
Click to expand...


+1

And I heard this demo is 90% finished code.....very very bad news.
 
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Oh I really hope they at least annouce something on what are the changes for the next Demo, because this release is pretty imbalanced.
 
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