PES 2012 PC Demo talk

amier said:
If you were a pro at PES2011 then i can understand it, otherwise i can't :)
Because, i'm sure my passing was way better on assisted than on full manual as well as defending and all round play in general. The AI really helps if you play assisted.

I for one didn't play PES2011 extensively so i'm behind when it comes to the 'learning curve' of this game-engine. That could explain it...

Shooting is still incosistent yes, i agree.
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I didn't play 2011 at all actually but I've played FIFA the past couple of years and there the full manual setting still feels a lot more manual than when you move the pass assistance slider all the way to 0. I'm not sure about the LT/L2 manual pass trigger, haven't tried it so no idea how that works...
 
kevano22 said:
to anyone using an xbox pad on the pc - can you press two buttons at once? I can't change the FK set up, can't dive but can seem to super cancel. This makes me think that i'm missing a lot of options, especially with defence. The players are getting rinsed every time, no matter how good my timing is...
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Try to set "XInput" instead of "DirectInput" in settings.
 
I find it extremely annoying how fast players in real life are not any faster than any players on the game.
For example: Neymar and Robinho. Perfect examples of fast, light players that are slow and heavy on PES 2012.
It's a game breaker for me.

You manage to send a great through ball from Ganso to Neymar and whilst the 'catch up' bug is no longer present, your player is still slow enough for any defender to catch him.

I hope Messi, Cristiano Ronaldo, Aguero, and many other players are more lifelike. Right now this is making it unplayable for me, really frustrating. The rest is pretty great though.

The worst part is, I'm sure it will be the same on the final version.
 
F D B said:
I find it extremely annoying how fast players in real life are not any faster than any players on the game.
For example: Neymar and Robinho. Perfect examples of fast, light players that are slow and heavy on PES 2012.
It's a game breaker for me.

You manage to send a great through ball from Ganso to Neymar and whilst the 'catch up' bug is no longer present, your player is still slow enough for any defender to catch him.

I hope Messi, Cristiano Ronaldo, Aguero, and many other players are more lifelike. Right now this is making it unplayable for me, really frustrating. The rest is pretty great though.

The worst part is, I'm sure it will be the same on the final version.
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As I said, theres is LITTLE to NO difference in speed, someone with 90 top speed or someone with 80 top speed will be almost the same.

When infact the guy with 90 should KILL the guy with 80, gain a substantial advantage if they race for the ball or something.... its really really annoying and its been in PES forever now...


Oh and amier, if you feel Nani is too agile why don't you try lavezzi and see how he turns with speed merchant... holy ... its just crazy lol.
 
techguyatny said:
for those of you complaining about GK's, you do realize the best keeper in the demo (abbiati) is only rated about 82-84 or so. if you're expecting the likes of abbiati, de gea, de sanctis, helton, etc. to make acrobatic world class saves, what do you think casillas, buffon, cesar will be like in the actual game? let's wait till some sort of data editor comes out for the demo so we can mod some keeper to be rated 92 or something. then we'll be able to see the full extent of keeper AI in pes 2012

but with the limited keepers we can choose from in the demo as of now, we cant really judge the GK AI yet

even in PES 2011, keepers rated in the high 70s are expected/prone to make the same handling mistakes
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I've been playing with a 94 rated Schmeichel and he's making howlers like everyone else...The closing down is obviously better when one-on-one, but tricklers bobbling along the ground from 30 yards are still ending up in the net or being flapped straight out into the danger zone.

Anyway, it's been said that keepers are gonna be improved so let's hope it's to a good extent. Because at the moment they are awful.
 
F D B said:
I find it extremely annoying how fast players in real life are not any faster than any players on the game.
For example: Neymar and Robinho. Perfect examples of fast, light players that are slow and heavy on PES 2012.
It's a game breaker for me.

You manage to send a great through ball from Ganso to Neymar and whilst the 'catch up' bug is no longer present, your player is still slow enough for any defender to catch him.

I hope Messi, Cristiano Ronaldo, Aguero, and many other players are more lifelike. Right now this is making it unplayable for me, really frustrating. The rest is pretty great though.

The worst part is, I'm sure it will be the same on the final version.
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I m afraid I have to say that... The 'catch up' bug gave balance to the play . Now... im afraid , the faster players means , that if they running alone straight to the keeper , noone will be able to reach them ...
Well sorry... but this sux , And it is for kiddies .
If Konami CANT fix the defences with these HUGE holes , then just dont remove catch up.
I m afraid Pes 6 ... again.
 
As for catch up bug and speed of players

If you think about real life players run at different speeds with and without ball.

If a player 80 speed is chasing a player 90 speed who is dribbling surely IRL the player 80 would be as fast or faster unless the dribbler was doing the long tap and run not close dribbles.

I have no idea off my statement regards to this game just saying that that is something that should be implemented? If it is I dont know? I havent paid much attention but I did notice I could easily beat players and dribble and do monster runs with Neymar and Robinho etc...perosanlly
 
pes4lyfe said:
If you think about real life players run at different speeds with and without ball.

If a player 80 speed is chasing a player 90 speed who is dribbling surely IRL the player 80 would be as fast or faster unless the dribbler was doing the long tap and run not close dribbles.
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Indeed, and it seems like in PES 2012 if a player with 95 speed is chasing a player with 80 speed it still seems that hes barely catching up... and the 80 speed one is dribbling the ball, its very poorly implemented.
Speed stat barely means anything, at least in this demo... really hope KONAMI mans up and actually makes speed MATTER, were waiting for so long now... why do I like to have walcott on my team and use him? because he will MURDER slow defenders for pace wherever he runs... in PES 2012 he won't because everyone is about the same, even players with 80 top speed might be a bit slower but not noticably..
 
Boateng dribling like a real Messi!!! This is a big suck that Konami did!!

In general the game is much better than others of new-gen era. However, the colision system seems to be the same of Pes09, that is, poor. The tackles are slow and ridiculous. The tackles animations, or better, the "short kick on the ball" animation denotes a game without balance between defense and offense... and more: to this problem be more harmful, Pes2012 improved the dribbling system; good players, but not good driblers, like Cavani and Boateng, are almost unstoppable (imagine Messi and CR when the full version arrives!).
The better colision and tackle system that i remember is the one from We9LE (or Pes5). But, in that time, we-lovers complained that the number of fouls per game was much higher. What Konami did in Pes6??? Drew back the more real colision and tackle system in a game ever. The higher number of fouls, in Pes5, was due to the poor referee judge and advantage system, not only due to the tackles and colisions. In my opinion, Konami needs to fix this problem, because if i want to tackle my opponent, the "tackle button" needs to do this, and furthermore, do this with more energy and precision than occurs in Pes2012 Demo
 
Rivas_10 said:
Boateng dribling like a real Messi!!! This is a big suck that Konami did!!
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Its because they improved ball control which would be fine if they didn't :

-Remove Acceleration

And did:

-Improve Speed to matter more, now theres no difference between 80 and 90 top speed or very very little

This way pretty much all players feel as fast, meaning with the better control of the ball they have and responsiveness they can all be very effective at dribbling which is not realistic at all, thats why speed should mean alot more and I have no idea why they would remove acceleration thats like one of the most important things why Messi can skip past his man in real life.
 
MokilokD said:
I m afraid I have to say that... The 'catch up' bug gave balance to the play . Now... im afraid , the faster players means , that if they running alone straight to the keeper , noone will be able to reach them ...
Well sorry... but this sux , And it is for kiddies .
If Konami CANT fix the defences with these HUGE holes , then just dont remove catch up.
I m afraid Pes 6 ... again.
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Both of them are bugs, period.
Catch up bug rendered the game unplayable most of the times. But this "over-balanced" new bug is making it unplayable too. I mean, you cannot exploit the great (fast and light) players like Neymar. You cannot exploit the spaces you've created. You cannot exploit counter attacks! Basically, counter-atacking won't be possible without ping-pong passing.
 
What now, I'm not sure if people are saying fast players aren't fast or that they're too fast?

I don't exactly get what people are complaining about lol. Fast players are deffo faster and you can get tones of distance from slow defenders, and compared to slower players you can do much less with the ball... The masters of dribbling are supposed to be hard to catch. You should feel like you can do anything with the ball, but that doesn't mean the defense should allow you to.
 
i don't understand why people are complaining, i don't want this game to turn into a complete speed fest where all u need is fast players to win games or beat a player, which in reality its not the case, i think the dribbling and pace is spot on and wouldn't change it at all
 
If you're given the space, fast players will be fast, faster players will feel faster. Period. The problem is, against the CPU in a top difficulty, defense will give you almost no chances for you to find space on the back of the defenders for you to run into, because while you're attacking they're defending as a block.

Surely there will be some teams that will have their defense block higher on the field and you'll chances to break through with fast players.
 
aitk3n said:
i don't understand why people are complaining, i don't want this game to turn into a complete speed fest where all u need is fast players to win games or beat a player, which in reality its not the case, i think the dribbling and pace is spot on and wouldn't change it at all
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Well the solution to not turn it into a speedfest surely can't be that all players are as fast as it seems like most of the time? Plus like it's been pointed out there is almost no acceleration present on any players.
 
_anderson said:
The problem is, against the CPU in a top difficulty
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Exactly!.
I have the feeling that, when playing against the CPU on one of the two higher difficulties your players get slew down and their players get faster.

For example, if I'm playing as Santos against Milan on top difficulty, Neymar isn't as fast as when the CPU plays as Santos and Neymar gets the ball.

I enjoy playing the demo so far, but I would love it even more if fast/light players would actually make the difference and if one felt THAT difference as soon as you pass the ball onto one of those chosen few.
 
:CONFUSE: How's there no acceleration if players are constantly "bursting" after they beat players on 1 on 1's?

If you want to play an unbalanced game of football, there's PES 2009.
 
To me what you're experiencing is the game's different pace and difficulty level. I had a similar feeling at the beginning, was playing it like I used in PES 2011, tapping R1 to sprint and stuff, I realized the game was different, in aspects like dribbling and sprinting, the actual mechanics of it are different.
 
_anderson said:
:CONFUSE: How's there no acceleration if players are constantly "bursting" after they beat players on 1 on 1's?

If you want to play an unbalanced game of football, there's PES 2009.
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No bro, I want simulation.
Do I need to post a million different videos from youtube so you see how fast players are still fast WHILE on the ball and they are hard to catch for defenders?. Forget about Messi, which is the best and easiest examples. Take Walcott, Eto'o, Chicharito, Saviola, Aguero, C.Ronaldo, etc, etc, etc.

I don't want an unbalanced game but I don't want and over-balanced one either. I want fast&light players in the real world to behave (and give you the feeling) to be fast&light players in the game, and I'm not getting that from this demo.
Neymar is as fast as any defender on this game. Try it. Pass the ball onto him over the sideline, with space, and try to beat a defender by accelerating.... see if you don't get dispossessed.

_anderson said:
To me what you're experiencing is the game's different pace and difficulty level. I had a similar feeling at the beginning, was playing it like I used in PES 2011, tapping R1 to sprint and stuff, I realized the game was different, in aspects like dribbling and sprinting, the actual mechanics of it are different.
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Hmmm I don't think so, homie.
I'm not a "sprinting fan", I'm not one of those guys that keep the sprinting button pressed down forever. I like to sprint just when it's necessary, to exploit empty spaces or to create some.

FIFA got: *speed/acceleration, *balance and *feeling you get from a light or a heavy player, spot on last year. There were just a few players on the whole game who would give you the feeling that you could get past a defender by accelerating and then take a shot, or lob the ball, or whatever.
 
_anderson said:
:CONFUSE: How's there no acceleration if players are constantly "bursting" after they beat players on 1 on 1's?
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Bursting? Once a player reacts towards 1 way he starts running but he runs at top speed pretty much, he doesn't gain speed in the first few steps.

_anderson said:
If you're given the space, fast players will be fast, faster players will feel faster. Period. The problem is, against the CPU in a top difficulty, defense will give you almost no chances for you to find space on the back of the defenders for you to run into, because while you're attacking they're defending as a block.
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BS.

Ive had countless of situations, all different.

Someone really fast like Pato or Robinho alone on the break and defender catching up, someone slow like Ibra on the break and defender catching up..

On the other side my slow defenders catching up, fast players like Pato etc catching up..

And from these situations I learned that the speed difference from all these players is barely noticable. In all those situations the defender trying to catch up and the attacker feelt similar in speed, no difference no matter which players and how slow/fast were involved.

If it was more noticable it couldn't possibly be exploited if there was no space, only if there was alot of it and thats how it should be period.

If you have walcott on the wing and ur on a break and you pass a trough ball, and the ball traveling there means that walcott and another defender need to run like 30 metres to get it and are in the same line more or less, what would happen in real life? Yea walcott would so murder him that he would have 10 metres of advantage, in PES? walcott might barely get the ball before the defender, not realistic sorry.
 
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I've said this many times before, and this is the same problem in older PES as well.

The key reason why speed feels off in the game is because Konami continuously fail to capture the turning speed and acceleration of players from stand still with or without the ball.

When players beat defenders and use speed to create space, there are two general cases.

1) The defender is beaten facing away from his own goal.
2) The defender is beaten facing towards his own goal (or partly).

In case 1, and you see this happen in real like such as Ronaldo on a break away. When the defender is not running towards his own goal and he is beaten, the amount of time it takes for him to turn and then accelerate from a stand still is multiple times longer than case 2.

This is why you see defenders turn and start running towards his own goal, so if he is beaten by pace of the attacking ball carrier, he can accelerate much quicker since he is already traveling in the same direction as the ball carrier.

In PES games, player acceleration does not the direction of the player into account, this is why even if you beat a defender, he can accelerate as if he is already facing the same direction as the ball carrier, so even with fast players, you can not create the amount of space that is possible in real life.

But this problem is compounded by the still poor defensive AI in the game. When teams play tight, it is hard for the ball carrier to use pace because in order to run fast, you must kick the ball further out. In a tight zonal defense, doing so will result in another defender kicking the ball away. PES defensive AI is a very simplified and unfaithful version of this system, where instead of defenders creating "funnels" to force the ball carrier, its the closest defender running forward to do a 1v1 against the ball carrier, thus breaking the shape, and failing to achieve what it was designed to do.


It's as if Konami thinks that adjusting speed of the players running speed will make the game more true to life, when what they need to do is to rework the Team AI as a whole, and as player individuals, both on the offensive and defensive side.
 
Ah BS, all you're feeling is the CPU difficulty level getting in the way lol...

Play it multiplayer and you'll actually wish some players weren't so fast and lethal..
 
Has anybody played the demo with friends yet? I did tonight. We're all kind of new to it obviously but there were a lot of goals where a player cut inside and dribbled round people. It looked like the two people i was watching were struggling to defend and there were a few goals because of this. Robinho seemed to get the better of everyone and despite me having hours worth of experience i was honestly struggling to defend against his mazy runs let alone the other two who were completely new to the game. That's something the CPU isn't going to do but something that could well be an issue when playing against real people. I have come to the conclusion there needs to be more advantage for defenders when it comes to defending otherwise i fear it'll be too much like PES 6. No way should it be that easy for any winger to ghost past defenders of Ferdinand and Vidic's caliber. I put it down to attackers having too much ball control and not really struggling to get the ball under control when closed down and pressured by numerous defenders.

I've scored two 35/40 yard goals (one with Evra) in two days because the ball simply floats over the goalkeeper. Physics do need tweaking in this area, either that or make it so the keeper actually tracks back to position himself for a save rather than stands still and dives aimlessly at the ball.

Is shooting outside the box too easy? I seem to score so many goals from 20 yards which curl into the corner. It's easy to say it's a goalkeeping issue but i'm not sure. It seems to be overly easy to place the shot in the corner every time from that far out.

The game sure is fun local multiplayer though. Much more than PES 2011 was. It reminds me of PES 6 which is going to be good for some of you but bad for others (klashman). It did get tiring though seeing people annoyed at conceding goals simply because of keeper ineptitude.
 
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_anderson said:
Ah BS, all you're feeling is the CPU difficulty level getting in the way lol...

Play it multiplayer and you'll actually wish some players weren't so fast and lethal..
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Again I will respectfully disagree here.

A common mistake that players make playing against each other is they defend like the CPU AI, where instead of keeping shape, you grab the closest guy and challenge the ball carrier.

What I will agree with you, is that against a real player, you can not predict what he will do, while CPU AI can react with inhumane speed.

This is why if you sit back, keep the shape, let the guy come to you, defending is much much easier, and it is harder for your human opponent to break through your defense.

Again, this is what teams do in real life, and why this defensive system is developed in the first place.
 
techguyatny said:
for those of you complaining about GK's, you do realize the best keeper in the demo (abbiati) is only rated about 82-84 or so. if you're expecting the likes of abbiati, de gea, de sanctis, helton, etc. to make acrobatic world class saves, what do you think casillas, buffon, cesar will be like in the actual game? let's wait till some sort of data editor comes out for the demo so we can mod some keeper to be rated 92 or something. then we'll be able to see the full extent of keeper AI in pes 2012

but with the limited keepers we can choose from in the demo as of now, we cant really judge the GK AI yet

even in PES 2011, keepers rated in the high 70s are expected/prone to make the same handling mistakes
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Ridiculous post. There is no way you can attribute the kind of blunders and basic keeper problems (i.e no concept of positioning and constant parrys back into the box from rudimentry saves) to the fact that they aren't the best keepers in the game, they're modelled on decent professionals after all even if they aren't rated 90+. Is anybody really complaining that they aren't making world class saves or are they in fact complaining that they seem to be inept at making normal saves. To me goalkeepers should be some of the most similar types of players on the game with the great ones (i.e the 90+ ones you mentioned) having the ability to pull off better reaction saves sometimes and perhaps assert themselves more at crosses etc. Worse keepers should make mistakes obviously. A few spills here and there but nowhere near as often as the keepers do in the demo.
 
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Northzzz said:
Ridiculous post. There is no way you can attribute the kind of blunders and basic keeper problems (i.e no concept of positioning and constant parrys back into the box from rudimentry saves) to the fact that they aren't the best keepers in the game, they're modelled on professionals after all even if they aren't rated 90+. Is anybody really complaining that they aren't making world class saves or are they in fact complaining that they seem to be inept at making normal saves. To me goalkeepers should be some of the most similar types of players on the game with the great ones (i.e the 90+ ones you mentioned) having the ability to pull off better reaction saves sometimes and perhaps assert themselves more at crosses etc. Worse keepers should make mistakes obviously. A few spills here and there but nowhere near as often as the keepers do in the demo.
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so medium keepers like de sanctis, de gea, and etc. never make blunders? you've never seen de gea flap the ball into his own net? you mean you've never seen a top division keeper parry the ball directly into the opposition? yes goalkeepers should have some basic skills, but everybody still makes mistakes. just because they're professional keepers, doesn't mean they don't make errors. i would hate it if keepers in video game are faultless

seriously, do you even watch football?
 
F D B said:
I find it extremely annoying how fast players in real life are not any faster than any players on the game.
For example: Neymar and Robinho. Perfect examples of fast, light players that are slow and heavy on PES 2012.
It's a game breaker for me.

You manage to send a great through ball from Ganso to Neymar and whilst the 'catch up' bug is no longer present, your player is still slow enough for any defender to catch him.

I hope Messi, Cristiano Ronaldo, Aguero, and many other players are more lifelike. Right now this is making it unplayable for me, really frustrating. The rest is pretty great though.

The worst part is, I'm sure it will be the same on the final version.
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What i find weird about sprinting is when you attempt to get players to run for a loose ball they end up looking like they're doing a half assed jog.

I do know what you mean with your point too, sometimes there does appear to be a lack of speed. They keep the ball very close to their feet when you hold the sprint button and it means that they don't tend to run very quickly with the ball. It's more like a faster controlled dribble at times. You can try tapping the run button for them to push the ball i guess. I've scored a couple of break away goals this way but i can't say for a moment that it felt like i was accelerating away. In fact i feared that i would be caught up by the defenders despite my advantage of 10 or so yards (this was with Rooney).
 
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Northzzz said:
Has anybody played the demo with friends yet? I did tonight. We're all kind of new to it obviously but there were a lot of goals where a player cut inside and dribbled round people. It looked like the two people i was watching were struggling to defend and there were a few goals. Robinho seemed to get the better of everyone and despite me having hours worth of experience i was honestly struggling to defend against his mazy runs let alone the other two who were completely new to the game. That's something the CPU isn't going to do but something that could well be an issue when playing against real people. I have come to the conclusion there needs to be more advantage for defenders when it comes to defending otherwise i fear it'll be too much like PES 6. No way should it be that easy for any winger to ghost past defenders of Ferdinand and Vidic's caliber. I put it down to attackers having too much ball control.

I've scored two 35/40 yard goals (one with Evra) in two days because the ball simply floats over the goalkeeper. Physics do need tweaking in this area, either that or make it so the keeper actually tracks back to position himself for a save rather than stands still and dives aimlessly at the ball.

Is shooting outside the box too easy? I seem to score so many goals from 20 yards which curl into the corner. It's easy to say it's a goalkeeping issue but i'm not sure. It seems to be overly easy to place the shot in the corner every time from that far out.

The game sure is fun local multiplayer though. Much more than PES 2011 was. It reminds me of PES 6 which is going to be good for some of you but bad for others (klashman). It did get tiring though seeing people annoyed at conceding goals simply because of keeper ineptitude.
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I agree, just like PES 6, they've given the advantage too much to attacking play than defending, it's gone to the other extreme from this demo. Hope it is more balanced out in the second demo.
 
Northzzz said:
Has anybody played the demo with friends yet? I did tonight. We're all kind of new to it obviously but there were a lot of goals where a player cut inside and dribbled round people. It looked like the two people i was watching were struggling to defend and there were a few goals. Robinho seemed to get the better of everyone and despite me having hours worth of experience i was honestly struggling to defend against his mazy runs let alone the other two who were completely new to the game. That's something the CPU isn't going to do but something that could well be an issue when playing against real people. I have come to the conclusion there needs to be more advantage for defenders when it comes to defending otherwise i fear it'll be too much like PES 6. No way should it be that easy for any winger to ghost past defenders of Ferdinand and Vidic's caliber. I put it down to attackers having too much ball control.
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The CPU does that a few times and it is quite hard to defend it.
 
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