PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

I am amazed that some of you dont know what im talking about or just dont WANT to know about it. I dont know. I have a friend he plays with PES since 2010 and he dont believe us like you...maybe he needs at least 500 matches more like you. Almost every 2nd weekend me and my brother with some friends play 2 vs 2 matches. Last saturday we played about 20 matches at least with Man City and Barcelona and you wouldnt believe what results we had.
For example
city 5-1 barca
city 4-2 barca
city 0-3 barca
city 3-5 barca
We used the same startegy and we played with the same line up the whole time(i mean the 2vs2 line up). First we can all understand theres no such difference between these teams and i can tell you the force between us was balanced (2vs2 team) ...so tell me how could we have such results then? The Ai/cpu decided it...not our quality or the teams. There were such chances when for example Messi missed the shots and there were no keeper on the goal line but it happend on the otherside too when barca was supported by the Ai/cpu ...because the Ai/cpu decided that City will win that game. First i thought it depends on form, players, line up, how many accurate passes do i have in the firs 20 minutes for example or how i use my chances but NO...its just random. And this is discusting for me, its just a game i wanna enjoy that I/WE beat my friends in the game not the Ai/cpu.
I hope know you understand my problem.
...and yes ofcourse i know its just for to make the game more realistic and more real life like but cmon...its too much if you know whats going on and know that you have 0% to win a match against a lower team with Barca even if you have 75 minutes left...you'll get the chances but all the superstars will miss it...maybe is this the simulation of how they act under pressure? If it is then sucks big time.

Sorry for this but i had to write down my problem somewhere.
 
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Uh, what? So, different results and variables are bad then?
Your attitude that we know nothing and you know everything is getting tiring.
 
I'm on the same page as everyone with regards to CPU assistance, it's what adds that little extra to PES and it's absence is what makes FIFA so lifeless. Complete control makes every player react the same, anticipate the same, be able to pull off the same pass etc. etc., it'd absolutely kill the ML if they removed the differentiation between players. In fact I hope it's even more so in PES 12, which leads me to my next point....

Positioning and player intelligence. This is one aspect of the game that needs a major revamp IMO, and one that I believe has moved backwards from last-gen. Even the most erratic full backs in real life football do not completely ignore opposing wingers and mindlessly stroll into the centre of the pitch. Not to mention the unwillingness of wingers and strikers to make a move. I don't expect them to endlessly bomb forward, but at least offer an option when I've held onto the ball for about an hour with my AM waiting. If they're able to replicate real life player movement this would be another big contributor to individuality, that'd separate the top players from the average. The 'response' stat is already important, but it'd be great to see poachers drift into space more, or world class defenders to drop off at the right moments.

zeemeister said:
The italian defenders seem to perform above the norm regardless of the stats.

If I am looking for CBs in master league and see the following criteria; above 180m, Italian and 19 years of age it is an automatic buy because he already has the x-factor to play in the starting lineup and grow into the defensive leader role.

Surely this isn't all in my head.
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Hah I ain't the only one then! Lucarelli and P.Cannavaro are absolute bosses at the back for me. I always stereotype my positions, Italians at the back, South American No.10s, African wingers and English DM's.
 
gabe.paul.logan said:
I am amazed that some of you dont know what im talking about or just dont WANT to know about it. I dont know. I have a friend he plays with PES since 2010 and he dont believe us like you...maybe he needs at least 500 matches more like you. Almost every 2nd weekend me and my brother with some friends play 2 vs 2 matches. Last saturday we played about 20 matches at least with Man City and Barcelona and you wouldnt believe what results we had.
For example
city 5-1 barca
city 4-2 barca
city 0-3 barca
city 3-5 barca
We used the same startegy and we played with the same line up the whole time(i mean the 2vs2 line up). First we can all understand theres no such difference between these teams and i can tell you the force between us was balanced (2vs2 team) ...so tell me how could we have such results then? The Ai/cpu decided it...not our quality or the teams. There were such chances when Messi missed the shots and there were no keeper on the goal line...because the Ai/cpu decided that City will win that game. First i thought it depends on form, players, line up, how man accurate passed do i have in the firs 20 minutes for example or how i use my chances but NO...its just random. And this is discusting for me, its just a game i wanna enjoy that I/WE beat my friends in the game not the Ai/cpu.
I hope know you understand my problem.
...and yes ofcourse i know its just for to make the game more realistic and more real life like but cmon...its too much if you know whats going on and know that you have 0% to win a match against a lower team with Barca even if you have 75 minutes left...you'll get the chances but all the superstars will miss it...maybe is this the simulation of how they act under pressure? If it is then sucks big time.

Sorry for this but i had to write down my problem somewhere.
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Football isn't a science. Why would you expect matches to be formulaic and predictable?

AI isn't at a level where it can get anywhere close to fully replicating the complex mechanic of 11 players working together in a team. Scripting is therefore necessary to introduce some variables that helps to make every single game feel different from the last. All sports games do it to some degree.

Fifa is often considered a less scripted game of football, but as a consequence it's also often criticised as being dull and boring, with every match playing out the same way.

So what do you prefer?
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
Obviously I've never played Fifa Clubs, but that kind of sums up my pre-conceieved perception. I imagine the typical primary school playground scenario, with every kid chasing the ball like bee's around honey.
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Not every time. The problem is that the game doesn't really try to reward proper team play. It's not the idea of 5 v 5 or 10 v 10 that is wrong, whatsoever. It's the way the game rewards/punishes players that is wrong.

The best moments I've had in a football game, ever, were in Clubs in FIFA 10. That's right. The closest PES has ever come to those spikes for me has been a couple of moments of PES 2+3 magic, with some PES 2011 tactical tweaks worthy of mention too.

The problem is that some of the worst can be traced to 10 v 10 too, particularly if you play the free-for-all public games rather than for a Club. But that's the nature of the beast - the concept of Clubs in a very, very early stage of its life. EA recognise the potential and are rightly proud of their idea, but it is still very raw and needs a lot of nurturing before you get people willingly playing in a sensible manner.

When 3 or 4 different players on the same team gel for a move, one striker pulls wide and the other breaks into the space, or you pull off a great reverse pass that you can tell no-one else saw, or you manage to get a toe onto a ball that would have resulted in a certain goal, you get the sort of feeling you just don't get playing alone or in 1v1. It's a completely new tingle.

I have no doubt that PES will one day make that leap into 10 v 10. When it does, particularly if they manage to nail the issue with people running up and down the pitch in two rugby lines, the series will be all the better for it.
 
MadbaLL said:
everything what pes 6 had, plus some more great things such as ref selection, crowd cheers selection, scoreboard selector, more stadiums (famous ones), etc...

konami totally downgraded pes series :FAIL:
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:CONFUSE:

madball, they are 'little' things.. yes taen out for no reason butt the gameplay come on leaps and bounds
 
romagnoli said:
Not every time. The problem is that the game doesn't really try to reward proper team play. It's not the idea of 5 v 5 or 10 v 10 that is wrong, whatsoever. It's the way the game rewards/punishes players that is wrong.

The best moments I've had in a football game, ever, were in Clubs in FIFA 10. That's right. The closest PES has ever come to those spikes for me has been a couple of moments of PES 2+3 magic, with some PES 2011 tactical tweaks worthy of mention too.

The problem is that some of the worst can be traced to 10 v 10 too, particularly if you play the free-for-all public games rather than for a Club. But that's the nature of the beast - the concept of Clubs in a very, very early stage of its life. EA recognise the potential and are rightly proud of their idea, but it is still very raw and needs a lot of nurturing before you get people willingly playing in a sensible manner.

When 3 or 4 different players on the same team gel for a move, one striker pulls wide and the other breaks into the space, or you pull off a great reverse pass that you can tell no-one else saw, or you manage to get a toe onto a ball that would have resulted in a certain goal, you get the sort of feeling you just don't get playing alone or in 1v1. It's a completely new tingle.

I have no doubt that PES will one day make that leap into 10 v 10. When it does, particularly if they manage to nail the issue with people running up and down the pitch in two rugby lines, the series will be all the better for it.
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well said. i think the people complaining about 10v10 have never played it with a club
 
jonneymendoza said:
well said. i think the people complaining about 10v10 have never played it with a club
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I have (you played in my 360 club occasionally!).

I admit, it had it's moments where awesome football could be played, and be successful, but (a lot) more often than not, a succession of quick forward passes followed by a chip/finesse shot was the way to go.

Even in Clubs, with a lot of people in the same club you're bound to get those who hog the striker positions or never play their fair share at the back.

FIFA Clubs was often rage-inducing... Maybe the same thing done in a better, more realistic football game would work though.
 
Rob92 said:
I have (you played in my 360 club occasionally!).

I admit, it had it's moments where awesome football could be played, and be successful, but (a lot) more often than not, a succession of quick forward passes followed by a chip/finesse shot was the way to go.

Even in Clubs, with a lot of people in the same club you're bound to get those who hog the striker positions or never play their fair share at the back.

FIFA Clubs was often rage-inducing... Maybe the same thing done in a better, more realistic football game would work though.
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This.

I'd be interested to see how it'll work without pressuring. People should - hopefully - defend more. At least, if it is shown to be more successful to do so than not, and people are rewarded with higher match ratings by playing more to their role, then clubs will play more like teams.
 
Is 2v2 in the current game?

Organised 2v2 tournaments in PES6 were absolutely fantastic. I built an almost telepathic understanding with this Mancunian lad, we'd tear apart defences for fun with silky intricate passing triangles. It also amplified the price of fucking up at the back, since you'd be letting down your partner.


I reckon 2v2, and maybe 3v3 at a push is the maximum you can get away with. Any more then that are you're just getting in each others way with too much ball watching IMO.


In fact, christ, actually thinking about it we were doing 2v2 online since the days of WE2002 through an emulator. If it ain't in PES2011 that's some shocking level of regression from Konami.
 
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i just hate these people saying pes is realistic. the amount of ping pong passing in this game is ridiculous. anyone calling pes more realstic than fifa might as well go suck seabass off already.
 
allewet said:
i just hate these people saying pes is realistic. the amount of ping pong passing in this game is ridiculous. anyone calling pes more realstic than fifa might as well go suck seabass off already.
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I just hate these people saying FIFA is realistic. the amount of ping pong passing in this game is ridiculous. anyone calling FIFA more realstic than PES might as well go suck Rutter off already.
 
allewet said:
i just hate these people saying pes is realistic. the amount of ping pong passing in this game is ridiculous. anyone calling pes more realstic than fifa might as well go suck seabass off already.
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It's not hard to stop people ping ponging the ball, even on 10 minute matches where passing and shooting is more accurate due to the short time length compared to 15, 25 or 30 minute games. Just out play him, or set your team up heavy in the midfield with tanks preferably! Or just keep the ball.

This post just sounds as if your just got beaten by a idiot you you should had done better against.

I had one game that sticks out in MLO i was 2-0 up against this guy in the first half. My opponent had a good team with Zlatan upfront and ALL he did was spam balls to him all game, i lost 4-2, Zlatan scored 3 in the end, but it not because of his, spammed passing i lost. it's because my tactics where wrong, i was unorganized and i blamed myself really, being lazy, not adapting.

Not if you thought like that, you wouldn't complain so easily! i mean this isn't fifa where you have no choice but to spam lofted through balls because the game is balanced so horribly wrong! You can attack any way you want, just play to your strengths!
 
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In pes 2011 the defenders can hold the ball 90 minutes. your offensive is useless in this situation. That's something that needs to be removed as well.

Passing should be more difficult. really. more user in put makes the game more realistic. Now all passes go straight in the feet. that's not how it goes in real football.
 
Enlil said:
Passing should be more difficult. really. more user in put makes the game more realistic. Now all passes go straight in the feet. that's not how it goes in real football.
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Would be nice, but I'd like to see it implemented with proper balance, not as something that will be applied to my team only, it has to apply to CPU too, even on top player.
 
Also i read allot of people lag online. I have never had this problem, it's so smooth. i love it. i have encountered only 3 idiots who used cheats. in fifa this was probably 3000.
 
_anderson said:
Uh, what? So, different results and variables are bad then?
Your attitude that we know nothing and you know everything is getting tiring.
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The point was that we beat each other with a mile in almost every matches...so few 0-0 , 1-0 but even with those results you can feel the support.
 
since March i'd say it's not lagging anymore
first months online was laggy as hell, above all in Master League Online
 
kobayashi said:
It's not hard to stop people ping ponging the ball, even on 10 minute matches where passing and shooting is more accurate due to the short time length compared to 15, 25 or 30 minute games. Just out play him, or set your team up heavy in the midfield with tanks preferably! Or just keep the ball.

This post just sounds as if your just got beaten by a idiot you you should had done better against.

I had one game that sticks out in MLO i was 2-0 up against this guy in the first half. My opponent had a good team with Zlatan upfront and ALL he did was spam balls to him all game, i lost 4-2, Zlatan scored 3 in the end, but it not because of his, spammed passing i lost. it's because my tactics where wrong, i was unorganized and i blamed myself really, being lazy, not adapting.

Not if you thought like that, you wouldn't complain so easily! i mean this isn't fifa where you have no choice but to spam lofted through balls because the game is balanced so horribly wrong! You can attack any way you want, just play to your strengths!
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dude you just think i lost to some random asshat and this is why i am complaining? no. i am complaining because ping pong passing is ridiculously easy in this game. you can ping pong for 90 minutes literally. there is no football simulation if you can ping pong pass and god forbid sometimes i can even ping pong shoot. it is by far the most efficient way to play but when i look at my replays, it looks so NOT like football. the way every goal goes is ping pong ping pong ping pong goal with ocassianal collisions and shit.

never said fifa was more realistic either. they are both shit and a disgrace to football gaming. just some nerds who have barely
touch a football in their lives developing games.

time you have in the midfield is also shit. this game is all about posession. every retard that plays barcelona or arsenal thinks pes is so realistic. what about chelsea fans or wolves fans? have you tried to play like stoke city and see if the game rewards you for the way they play in real life? no? thought so.

in the end, as i said before the game REWARDS ping pong passing and posession. the rest of tactics should go fuck themselves, or will be very inefficient at best.
 
allewet said:
dude you just think i lost to some random asshat and this is why i am complaining? no. i am complaining because ping pong passing is ridiculously easy in this game. you can ping pong for 90 minutes literally. there is no football simulation if you can ping pong pass and god forbid sometimes i can even ping pong shoot. it is by far the most efficient way to play but when i look at my replays, it looks so NOT like football. the way every goal goes is ping pong ping pong ping pong goal with ocassianal collisions and shit.
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I simply think it's that you crying. Someone beats you by just spamming passes your just not very good! Pass spamming (ping pong isn't in PES in the way that it's coined in FIFA for 09/10) Spamming passes like you said is what anyone can do but it's very easy to stop, You can pass the ball around for 90 minutes but if your any good you would intercept them or stop them from attack. If you pass the ball around for 90 minutes against a half decent player you get nowhere!

The game does not serve to you needs on a plate, maybe learn a thing or two about the game why don't you.

never said fifa was more realistic either. they are both shit and a disgrace to football gaming. just some nerds who have barely
touch a football in their lives developing games.
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Ohh boo hoo can't win every game because my Stoke hoofball is superior and nobody shall beat me! get off your high horse!

time you have in the midfield is also shit. this game is all about posession.
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Thats because i assume your aren't great with using R2 and can't work space in the midfield! Blame the game for your incompetence why don't you!

every retard that plays barcelona or arsenal thinks pes is so realistic. what about chelsea fans or wolves fans? have you tried to play like stoke city and see if the game rewards you for the way they play in real life? no? thought so.
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Don't tell me that crap, that's a lot of shit and you know it! I was one of the people who enjoys playing hoofball with english teams and me and other 'Olly' in the tactics thread created a long ball tactics for teams like stoke

https://evo-web.co.uk/threads/60966/page-4

I also spent time trying to get Chelsea and United to play properly and they do! In my MLO i try long passes to Carroll upfront and they work. Stop crying, you can play anyway you want in this game and ping pong isn't the most effective.

I played and beat my mates yesterday with Leverkusen and Nuremburg, try ping pong passing with Leverkusen and it get you nowhere like it did with me with their tank like players especially with Derdiyok and Kessling!

Sorry you sound like one of these people who believes games should be played on your teams, you should win eery game and you are some sort of superior god like know it all! It's a freking simulation game, which at the end of the day is a game. Nobody cares if you good or bad! One you realize this maybe you will stop being a douche and spouting rubbish about ping pong passing.

What, so you want a game like FIFA manual which makes it almost impossible to put 3 passes together unless your playing against someone who not using the pressure buttons and is letting you do whatever at will?

in the end, as i said before the game REWARDS ping pong passing and possession. the rest of tactics should go fuck themselves, or will be very inefficient at best.
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So what do you know about he tactics, i bet, nothing because if you did know anything you wouldn't mention ping pong. This game rewards all types of football styles. I've played with so many teams and played so many different types of football. In my Championship PS3 ML the most effective way for my Leeds team to score was HOOFBALL since my players were simply not good enough with their passing stats!

Sorry you get no sympathy from me!
 
Well has anyone tried to play like a REAL football match? In real life, some teams are very patient and barely make it over the halfway line without coming back to work more space. 1 step forward, 2 steps back.

I play against another Aussie and we try to simulate real matches. Walking with the ball and stopping...not always first time passing or running forwards. Switching the play etc. It looks amazing and sometimes I have to check it's not really a match day broadcast.

Yes you can ping pong to an extent and yes you can spam through balls but if you want, PES allows you to play a more realistic game than FIFA, unless it's FIFA manual settings with someone who is also trying to play football. Not that FIFA manual is realistic - it can be more challenging and rewarding and it can co-erce you into playing slower build up football, if you're so inclined.
 
CalcioCalabrese said:
Well has anyone tried to play like a REAL football match? In real life, some teams are very patient and barely make it over the halfway line without coming back to work more space. 1 step forward, 2 steps back.

I play against another Aussie and we try to simulate real matches. Walking with the ball and stopping...not always first time passing or running forwards. Switching the play etc. It looks amazing and sometimes I have to check it's not really a match day broadcast.

Yes you can ping pong to an extent and yes you can spam through balls but if you want, PES allows you to play a more realistic game than FIFA, unless it's FIFA manual settings with someone who is also trying to play football. Not that FIFA manual is realistic - it can be more challenging and rewarding and it can co-erce you into playing slower build up football, if you're so inclined.
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On fifa manual on any game you can spam though balls or play like an idiot, any football game you can do that! it's about what you do to stop it and how the game balances it out! Whih PES 2011 does very well.
 
Not sure if you're agreeing with me or? lolll
You know I was praising PES right? and telling people it's about how they approach the game.
 
kobayashi/klash... I normally agree with your view on the game, but in that post you just sound like an ass!

"Ping-pong passing" isn't quite on FIFA 09/10 levels in PES 2011, but it's definitely too easy to knock the ball around quickly with first time passes, even blind passes go directly to feet.
It's also the "kryptonite" (as Jimmy put it) to the defending system - yes, you can use secondary pressure and use super cancel to cut out through balls, but there are some angles where your player will simply let the ball roll past them, even if they're inches from it and have time to react... Nothing you can do.

Also, if I can do this type of passing myself, it's nothing to do about sucking at defending (the age old football game excuse).

It's well known that the jostling system in PES 2011 sucks, making aerial battles and passed headers unrealistic, so no, Stoke's style doesn't work in this game. Even setting up Stoke City with your tactics, I get more success with them by keeping the ball on the ground playing intricate passing football, completely unrealistic. So is the fact that target men are nearly completely useless as super cancel means you can win headers with just about anybody anyway.
 
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