PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

Jamezinho said:
The first couple of hints have emerged from Adam at WENB:

Sounds good to me.
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That sounds pretty good to me, I don't want a revolution at all BUT I do want a leap in quality, as comparison the leap between FIFA 08 and Euro 08. just make it a much better experience because the fundamentals are their but 2011 wasn't a very good multi player game.
 
Jamezinho said:
After reading that article I don't see what the fuss is about. Consider the following:

1. When has PES ever outsold Fifa?

Only once as far as I'm aware, yet until recently PES was always the far stronger game. Sales don't represent quality. As the article says, PES is successful on it's own terms i.e. smaller budget, smaller sales.

2. When has there ever been a real revolution in the history of PES?

Never in my opinion. You could use PES3 and PES2011 as examples of increased change, but there was nothing revolutionary about them. It's called Pro Evolution Soccer for a reason. Some years the game evolves more than others.

All this talk of three year cycles is rubbish. In that case PES2009 should have been the big one on this gen in the same way PES3 was on the PS2. There's no formula to it, Konami have simply struggled on this gen. More importantly, I've been playing Konami football games for long enough to know that sweeping changes are not their style.

So expect PES2012 to tidy-up many of PES2011's faults, add some new animations, a few new stadia, add some licences (and lose some others). That's how it goes each year.
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Amen.

People who think there are 2 PES's they are fooling them selfs. it's the same game they build on each here. Why invest time, money and people in 2 different games.
 
Enlil said:
Amen.

People who think there are 2 PES's they are fooling them selfs. it's the same game they build on each here. Why invest time, money and people in 2 different games.
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Uh? Companies from all the genres have been doing that since... for ever. Big companies at least. It's about giving the next step first. Konami have failed in doing so.
 
_anderson said:
Uh? Companies from all the genres have been doing that since... for ever. Big companies at least. It's about giving the next step first. Konami have failed in doing so.
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Konami aren't really a big company any more, though. The real big players are EA, Activision, Ubisoft etc.....

The truth is that, traditionally, PES has always been developed with smaller resources, and as a result complete overhauls or revolutions just aren't possible. All Seabass can do is evolve the game each year with the staff and budget he has at his disposal.

It's more likely the case that Konami has always had the resources to pump into the development of PES but have been reluctant to do so because the series has always made a decent return for them. Until now.

I think Konami have finally realised that they need to put something back into PES, the cash-cow that has treated them so well for over a decade. But as with all things Konami it's taking a few years to see the results of this.
 
Lea said:
PES 2008 was amazing,
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xzibit_meme-7219.jpg
 
Jamezinho said:
Konami aren't really a big company any more, though. The real big players are EA, Activision, Ubisoft etc.....

The truth is that, traditionally, PES has always been developed with smaller resources, and as a result complete overhauls or revolutions just aren't possible. All Seabass can do is evolve the game each year with the staff and budget he has at his disposal.

It's more likely the case that Konami has always had the resources to pump into the development of PES but have been reluctant to do so because the series has always made a decent return for them. Until now.

I think Konami have finally realised that they need to put something back into PES, the cash-cow that has treated them so well for over a decade. But as with all things Konami it's taking a few years to see the results of this.
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That's why I said big companies, not KONAMI :p They've only tried to start something similar a couple of years ago. Seems like they're taking that process serious from now on. It's pretty evident KONAMI, as a whole, is huge these days, as a company and specially on resources. If there's a focus on making PES big again, they'll have to spend those resources with the PES team. And again, it sounds like they did.
 
Jamezinho said:
Konami aren't really a big company any more, though. The real big players are EA, Activision, Ubisoft etc.....

The truth is that, traditionally, PES has always been developed with smaller resources, and as a result complete overhauls or revolutions just aren't possible. All Seabass can do is evolve the game each year with the staff and budget he has at his disposal.

It's more likely the case that Konami has always had the resources to pump into the development of PES but have been reluctant to do so because the series has always made a decent return for them. Until now.

I think Konami have finally realised that they need to put something back into PES, the cash-cow that has treated them so well for over a decade. But as with all things Konami it's taking a few years to see the results of this.
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Hmmm, well in Japan they are very much an institution and one of the nations 'darling' companies really. Sponsor nearly everything.

I said this last year, in terms of the issue with them falling behind in tech it's because the company in general (not just Seabass's team) Had not invested in new next generation ready engines like EA did back in 2005. So, yes they aren't a huge company (tiny compared to EA) and probably didn't see it worthwhile financially.

EA Sports, a whole line of sports titles, they all got this new engine to build from in 2005. Remember that demo EA released of that guy who was looking around the screen, could look around naturally compared to it's PS2 previous gen counterpart? That!

Where as Konami, look at their titles now even, only about 3-4 of them (Castlevania, MGS, PES and Silent Hill) Are next gen ready. Also PES is their only big sports title compared to what EA have a huge range of sports titles.

They should of prepared better for the Jump to next gen, the shit state fifa was in and the growing number of people wanting PES to keep being arcadey didn't help but I'd say overall i think it was only inevitable PES would be left behind EA in terms of tech really, whats a joke is how with less tech Konami's game still far represents football better than EA FIFA monster!

Konami should keep developing PES on this generation and hold off making any big tech investments until the PS4/XBOX 720 comes about etc.. Then when it becomes available to create games for those consoles, expand it's operations to Europe etc..

Also for the PS4, Konami please, you can keep the same ideology, but well, start from scratch! Take the game apart completely and use as much of the new tech as possible :)
 
kobayashi said:
Also PES is their only big sports title compared to what EA have a huge range of sports titles.
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Not quite true. Konami have their baseball game. I forget what it's called but it's supposedly very impressive. I remember there was an article about it two years ago (I think) describing how it featured animations, graphics and presentation far superior to PES at the time, and how Konami could tech share to help improve PES. Whether this ever happened or not - who knows.

The game was only for the Japanese market so I guess you're right in saying PES is their only big (as in global) sports series.
 
you dont have to wait for for next xbox or ps4 to come out for konami to start developing and testing a new engine.

They could develope a new next gen engine and test it on PC's. PC's are sooooo far ahead of consoles, its embarrassing really. Battlefield 3 will show you this.
 
Jamezinho said:
Not quite true. Konami have their baseball game. I forget what it's called but it's supposedly very impressive. I remember there was an article about it two years ago (I think) describing how it featured animations, graphics and presentation far superior to PES at the time, and how Konami could tech share to help improve PES. Whether this ever happened or not - who knows.

The game was only for the Japanese market so I guess you're right in saying PES is their only big (as in global) sports series.
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here it is: YouTube - Pro Yakyuu Spirits 2010 PS3 Gameplay Free Game

Thing is baseball games i think is a lot easier to create than football games. it looks good though. My point is that having two sports games isn't enough to warrant investing in a whole new general engine



jonneymendoza said:
you dont have to wait for for next xbox or ps4 to come out for konami to start developing and testing a new engine.

They could develope a new next gen engine and test it on PC's. PC's are sooooo far ahead of consoles, its embarrassing really. Battlefield 3 will show you this.
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In graphics yes! Absolutley

In general AI, well, no! I mean there's isn't a game in terms of it's AI on the PC the Xbox and PS3 can't handle!

That's why i think it's taking so long to release another console because there's no really ground breaking AI available yet!
 
Enlil said:
Amen.

People who think there are 2 PES's they are fooling them selfs. it's the same game they build on each year. Why invest time, money and people in 2 different games.
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I'm not sure on the issue, but how do you explain the random removal of good features throughout the series? My friend points out that this indicates a 2 year cycle thing.

There are loads of examples, but for instance this year how replay camera went from total freedom to restricted to ground level. Surely, this would not happen if they were simply building on last year's iteration.


EDIT: lol konami's baseball game above seems to have more exciting commentary than PES! Scandalous
 
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Musy said:
I'm not sure on the issue, but how do you explain the random removal of good features throughout the series? My friend points out that this indicates a 2 year cycle thing.

There are loads of examples, but for instance this year how replay camera went from total freedom to restricted to ground level. Surely, this would not happen if they were simply building on last year's iteration.


EDIT: lol konami's baseball game above seems to have more exciting commentary than PES! Scandalous
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Every year decent features or content disappear in the 'Konami triangle' for no apparent reason. It's been happening for so long now. It's as if Konami cannot bear to make the game bigger. For everything new something old must make way.

Take PES2011 for instance. Of the top of my head the new stuff included:

- Copa Libertadores
- 5 or 6 new fictional stadia
- Stadium editor

But we lost:

- Fully free replay camera.
- Stade de France, Anfield (are Konami no longer allowed to make 'fake' real-life stadia?)
- Loads of 'Other Leagues A' European teams. And I mean loads. Go back to PES2010 and see for yourselves.

Please stop doing this Konami. Add to your game!
 
Musy said:
I'm not sure on the issue, but how do you explain the random removal of good features throughout the series? My friend points out that this indicates a 2 year cycle thing.

There are loads of examples, but for instance this year how replay camera went from total freedom to restricted to ground level. Surely, this would not happen if they were simply building on last year's iteration.


EDIT: lol konami's baseball game above seems to have more exciting commentary than PES! Scandalous
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probably because they want to improve their code or engine or whatever its called. when konami puts their game on a disk they continue their work with the things they have. if they want to improve they might losss some,but to be honest i thinks its because they are lazy. a game like metal gear solid can take up to 5 years and be a awesome game. how come konami needs 4 years to built a decent pes? what if konami didn't release 2008, 09 and 10? it would have taken them the same amount of time, because they are working on the same game. pes is just an update every year. nothing more.
 
Enlil said:
probably because they want to improve their code or engine or whatever its called. when konami puts their game on a disk they continue their work with the things they have. if they want to improve they might losss some,but to be honest i thinks its because they are lazy. a game like metal gear solid can take up to 5 years and be a awesome game. how come konami needs 4 years to built a decent pes? what if konami didn't release 2008, 09 and 10? it would have taken them the same amount of time, because they are working on the same game. pes is just an update every year. nothing more.
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I would highly doubt it's a disk space issue if that's the point you are trying to make. I doubt PES gets anywhere near filling a DVD so there's no need to remove content/features.
 
Jamezinho said:
I would highly doubt it's a disk space issue if that's the point you are trying to make. I doubt PES gets anywhere near filling a DVD so there's no need to remove content/features.
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no i meant the fact they releasing the game. so when it's finished.
 
Jamezinho said:
I would highly doubt it's a disk space issue if that's the point you are trying to make. I doubt PES gets anywhere near filling a DVD so there's no need to remove content/features.
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Considering there're games with 3 times the size of PES2011, yeah, it's not about that. They just overlook stuff.
 
Jamezinho said:
Every year decent features or content disappear in the 'Konami triangle' for no apparent reason. It's been happening for so long now. It's as if Konami cannot bear to make the game bigger. For everything new something old must make way.

Take PES2011 for instance. Of the top of my head the new stuff included:

- Copa Libertadores
- 5 or 6 new fictional stadia
- Stadium editor

But we lost:

- Fully free replay camera.
- Stade de France, Anfield (are Konami no longer allowed to make 'fake' real-life stadia?)
- Loads of 'Other Leagues A' European teams. And I mean loads. Go back to PES2010 and see for yourselves.

Please stop doing this Konami. Add to your game!
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lol 'Konami triangle'

Someone somewhere in Konami HQ lost the floppy disks which had the code for all these features.
Seabass was like shit y'all we'll redo a botched up replay camera and hope everyone forgets.

It's funny how they manage to lose floppy disks every year tho
 
Jamezinho said:
I understand. Still odd that they do this though.
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i sometimes think they hire and fire people. it's no surprise to me when they got rid of some people who were working on some parts of the game. When they put more time in other things they might have forgotten about it.

I do believe pes 2012 will be an awesome game. It's because more people work on the game now. And KONAMI knows it's there moneymaking machine.

I also hope they give the edit people more space slots. I mean how hard is it to add more slots? KONAMI must be doing something wrong or not listen to the fans.
 
Enlil said:
I also hope they give the edit people more space slots. I mean how hard is it to add more slots? KONAMI must be doing something wrong or not listen to the fans.
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Totally agree, it's been a problem for a long time, going back to PES5. Such a simple thing to put right and would please so many fans. I don't think Konami understand how much of an annoyance this is.

The only limit on the number of editing slots should be the size of the hard-drive. Why do Konami not appreciate this? Infinite edit slots would allow for whole leagues to be created and some truly awesome option files.

It's been one of the most common requests in feedback threads for years now, so I will be annoyed if nothing has changed for PES2012.:RANT:

I also want to see the edit mode opened up so shorts and socks can be fully edited, and custom fonts can be added. The edit mode is still rather limited, and again I don't think Konami realise how important it is to the community.

The stadium editor needs to be massively improved. I was really surprised and excited to hear of it's inclusion last year but that quickly turned to disappointment when I realised how limited it was. Perhaps it was a last minute addition and hence was rushed?
 
Jamezinho said:
Have they even got the 1 vs 1 play right yet?

Never played PES2011 online myself apart from the beta last August.
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yes 1v1 works great, better then fifa 1v1. master league online is a awsome game mode and you create a proper league and tournament for online play unlike fifa which doesnt create a proper league and tournament structure/rules

Rob92 said:
No.
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why?
 
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