PES 2011 Discussion thread

[klashman69]

he probably just judged the game on it's smoothness and animations so.. well! MEH!

 

[WishMaster 23]

It's the classic case of what do you expect from the engine ? If your looking for top level AI and tactical prowess, then you wont find it there. I really dont think it's anywhere near as complex as what Konami use, that's where it falls down for me personally. An engine that is capable of calculating all the individual factors of a players make-up, statistics, form, condition and delivering infinite eventualities is what I find fantastic, for me thats the clever stuff. Fifa has an amazing animation and ball physics engine, and although that's highly impressive, it doesnt impress me personally as much as what Konami's does. But, in saying that,I honestly believe what EA aims to achieve with Fifa, and the end result,is as good as what Konami aims to achieve with PES. They both look to replicate football from differing angles. And they both do it amazingly well in their own right. The problems only arise when both games are judged on equal merit, you cant that, it's two seperate philosophies. What Konami does well I dont see EA Sports ever matching it, and vice versa.

I personally think you either buy into one or the other. When you start to mix philosophies, thats when the confusion seems set in. I'm more than aware that on Evo-Web, we have PES only players, Fifa only players, and then those that dabble with both. It's no coincidence that the most content members, are the one's that follow one game or the other exclusively. It really doesnt matter which, as both really are fantastic games in their own right, and I genuinely mean that hand on heart. It's like I have always said, it's whatever you prefer.



I think thats very harsh. I can understand why people felt PES 2010 could look and play ugly, but underneath those messy layers, was the base for what PES 2011 currently is. The Ai, the tactical element, the increased player individuality, and the new ML has all been brought from PES 2010. And anybody that bought into PES 2010 will testify to that. What people are seeing now isnt just 12 months work, this has been a progression of the last 3 years. If you have never played the Master League in PES 2010, which is what PES 2011 will be, then your in for a real big treat.

As for the Winning Eleven demo, I have played it back-to-back with the PES demo for the last week, and I struggle to see any major, noticable differences. It certainly isnt the second coming of Christ.

What a great POST...absolutely what I think...massive understanding of the FIFA and PES philosophy.

I'm just proud of sharing this forum with persons who see this competition between games like this.

In the end we have to choose and adapt to one of the sides, for me it's impossible to play both at the same time. They are so different and in a sort of distorted way complete each other. But to evolve and master one or the other we have to choose one style and PES to me wins this year around.

 

[Expander]

It's the classic case of what do you expect from the engine ? If your looking for top level AI and tactical prowess, then you wont find it there. I really dont think it's anywhere near as complex as what Konami use, that's where it falls down for me personally. An engine that is capable of calculating all the individual factors of a players make-up, statistics, form, condition and delivering infinite eventualities is what I find fantastic, for me thats the clever stuff. Fifa has an amazing animation and ball physics engine, and although that's highly impressive, it doesnt impress me personally as much as what Konami's does. But, in saying that,I honestly believe what EA aims to achieve with Fifa, and the end result,is as good as what Konami aims to achieve with PES. They both look to replicate football from differing angles. And they both do it amazingly well in their own right. The problems only arise when both games are judged on equal merit, you cant that, it's two seperate philosophies. What Konami does well I dont see EA Sports ever matching it, and vice versa.

I personally think you either buy into one or the other. When you start to mix philosophies, thats when the confusion seems set in. I'm more than aware that on Evo-Web, we have PES only players, Fifa only players, and then those that dabble with both. It's no coincidence that the most content members, are the one's that follow one game or the other exclusively. It really doesnt matter which, as both really are fantastic games in their own right, and I genuinely mean that hand on heart. It's like I have always said, it's whatever you prefer.



I think thats very harsh. I can understand why people felt PES 2010 could look and play ugly, but underneath those messy layers, was the base for what PES 2011 currently is. The Ai, the tactical element, the increased player individuality, and the new ML has all been brought from PES 2010. And anybody that bought into PES 2010 will testify to that. What people are seeing now isnt just 12 months work, this has been a progression of the last 3 years. If you have never played the Master League in PES 2010, which is what PES 2011 will be, then your in for a real big treat.

As for the Winning Eleven demo, I have played it back-to-back with the PES demo for the last week, and I struggle to see any major, noticable differences. It certainly isnt the second coming of Christ.

Have to disagree jimmy on the two demos,its night and day the differences IMO,but then again you where very reluctant to see the flaws in pes2010 so i would hardly judge you as someone who can see the little details(no offence intended).

Each to there own i guess.I admire your new both games have there merits approach jimmy,but for me fifa11 is a long way short of the holy grial of football when pes2011 is,which i feel is reflected perfectly in euro gamers review of fifa11.

As for the psm3,i expected this,PES2011 isnt pes as we know it,it re-engineers alot of ISS and perfect strikers concepts on the n64 which was a completely different control philosophy to pes on the ps2 and is more a meeting of the two geniuses that are Seabass and Mr Katsuya Nagae who pioneered true analog control and freedom of control on a 360 degree plain and football games as we know them.

Great to finally see these two great minds collide in one game even if katsuya nagae has passed,his legasy lifes on though in pes2011 which is a good thing for all pes and konami fans of all ages.

I get it and am hot because of theses games already,i think in hindsight 6 months from now that reviewer might regret his short sightedness,basing his views on a game thats not designed to be understood completely in weeks,for me pes2011 is over engineered,you dont appreciate the subtlelty and depth of shooting or its other dynamics in weeks.

Just a classic case of people covering there arses because there not completely sure and still approaching pes2011 with that old automated 8 directions mindset.I guess for the old guard like me reared on the delights of ISS on the n64 and its analog 360 degree control interface we are already in nirvana,i know i am.

 

[DagsJT]

Has ML changed at all since 2010? I can't remember seeing a feature list of changes for 2011.

 

[WishMaster 23]

Has ML changed at all since 2010? I can't remember seeing a feature list of changes for 2011.

Is that good or bad? I didn't spend much time with PES 2010...

 

[valroy]

*Genuine*
Hi guy's, I've just got a promo copy of PES 2011 for the xbox (perk at work) that I want to sell, so anyone who is interested in playing the game more than a week early, PM me!

 

[klashman69]

Dunno, the menu looks sexy! Transfer activity can be altered, that's about it from what i've seen, rest seems the same.

Thing is PES 2010 ML was absolutely brilliant!

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

Is that good or bad? I didn't spend much time with PES 2010...

I have no doubt that the ML in PES 2011 will be identical to PES 2010. The reason for this is that it simply didnt need addressing, the ML revamp took place in PES 2010, and it really is quite incredible. Add it to PES 2011 and you truly have the most immersive career experience ever. Subject to you liking PES 2011 of course.

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

Have to disagree jimmy on the two demos,its night and day the differences IMO.

I honestly dont know where you get that from. The PES 2011 demo compared to the MLO Beta is what I would class as night and day. I did find the difference between the PES 2010 demo and the WE 2010 quite noticable, but I dont see it this year to be honest.

 

[tobi]

I hope the player expectations have been adjusted in the latest ML.

In 2010 I promoted a 17 year old from my youth team and a few weeks later he was upset because he wasn't a playing a lot. He had decent stats and I was easing him into the team, a few sub appearances and starting some cup games. Unrealistic expectations.

Apart from that very little needs to be changed.

 

[fishball]

I have no doubt that the ML in PES 2011 will be identical to PES 2010. The reason for this is that it simply didnt need addressing, the ML revamp took place in PES 2010, and it really is quite incredible. Add it to PES 2011 and you truly have the most immersive career experience ever. Subject to you liking PES 2011 of course.

player trading option should be brought back

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

player trading option should be brought back

Yeah good point, forgot about that.

Tobi, there is nothing wrong with a young kid itching to get a start, I can totally relate to that. I kind of love their cheek, it's endearing.

Edit- And that young Leonard Nimoy, for some reason, spooks the shit outta me.

 

[PATe.Arminia]

Dunno, the menu looks sexy! Transfer activity can be altered, that's about it from what i've seen, rest seems the same.

Thing is PES 2010 ML was absolutely brilliant!

yes, apart negotiations, as it took way too long to see wether a player would be interested in coming or not. Did this change?

 

[Steekbal]

Didn't they revamp Be A Legend mode this year? Anyways my mate stuck with PES all these years and he says PES 2010 ML was brilliant already and I completely trust his judgement on that one, having enjoyed so many co-op ML's in PES 5 and 6.

People who've played 2010 on here seem positive as well so I'm not worried, plus online ML should be brilliant. It simply can't be worse than the buggy mess that was FIFA 10 MM or it's stripped down cousin in FIFA 11.

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

yes, apart negotiations, as it took way too long to see wether a player would be interested in coming or not. Did this change?

I dont think it did take too long. That's where the different levels of Scout that you hired comes into play. I dont think I could ever afford a Scout higher than Level 4. I dont think 4 weeks is an excessive time to wait for a decision. I really like the way the higher level of Scout brought the information back quicker and also was more indepth with his assessment. Unless you had a Level 5 Scout, you couldnt see the prospective player's Player Cards and traits. I like that, it demonstrates a difference in the Scout's abilities. The same goes for the Scout having a better influence on your transfer targets decision.

Edit- Here is last years Master League Thread.....It will contain the answers to pretty much every question you may have.

http://forums.evo-web.co.uk/showthread.php?t=55028

 

[napo_rz]

Have to disagree jimmy on the two demos,its night and day the differences IMO

I laughed after that sentence, seriously his exaggeration is hilarious, night and day differences? that's when you are talking about FIFA vs PES, not for slightly different demos intended for different regions but still the exact same game from the exact same engine.

 

[Han]

Any news about release dates in Belgium/ Netherlands?

In Holland it is 7-10, not sure about Belgium, maybe the French version for you

 

[embraceuk1]

The Japanese game is always better then the uk version but the demos are identical its just ppl trying to see what isn't there.
You cant even download a Japanese version on the Xbox if u have the UK version as its the same game its just lest you play it its even called.
Pes2011/WE2011

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

Have to disagree jimmy on the two demos,its night and day the differences IMO,but then again you where very reluctant to see the flaws in pes2010 so i would hardly judge you as someone who can see the little details(no offence intended).

Each to there own i guess.I admire your new both games have there merits approach jimmy,but for me fifa11 is a long way short of the holy grial of football when pes2011 is,which i feel is reflected perfectly in euro gamers review of fifa11.

As for the psm3,i expected this,PES2011 isnt pes as we know it,it re-engineers alot of ISS and perfect strikers concepts on the n64 which was a completely different control philosophy to pes on the ps2 and is more a meeting of the two geniuses that are Seabass and Mr Katsuya Nagae who pioneered true analog control and freedom of control on a 360 degree plain and football games as we know them.

Great to finally see these two great minds collide in one game even if katsuya nagae has passed,his legasy lifes on though in pes2011 which is a good thing for all pes and konami fans of all ages.

I get it and am hot because of theses games already,i think in hindsight 6 months from now that reviewer might regret his short sightedness,basing his views on a game thats not designed to be understood completely in weeks,for me pes2011 is over engineered,you dont appreciate the subtlelty and depth of shooting or its other dynamics in weeks.

Just a classic case of people covering there arses because there not completely sure and still approaching pes2011 with that old automated 8 directions mindset.I guess for the old guard like me reared on the delights of ISS on the n64 and its analog 360 degree control interface we are already in nirvana,i know i am.

I wish you would stop editing your posts long after they have been written.

Anyway, to answer your edited, then re-edited, then re-edited again post, of course I was able to see the flaws in PES 2010, the mis-directed passing has always bugged me, you just learn to play around it. Just because I was keen to speak of what PES 2010 did well, when all around were highlighting what they felt it did bad, doesnt mean I dont see flaws. I'm pretty confident I see all the small things, I know what I'm looking for, dont you worry about that.

You on the other hand have based your recent arguments on claiming that the Winning Eleven demo is the basically the Holy Grail, that there is this new after-touch spin ability, that it has this perfect Ai, etc, etc. It's not true, it's all in your mind. There is very little difference to the PES 2011 demo, whether you want to believe it or not.

 

[Rob92]

After-touch spin definitely doesn't exist in PES 2011 or WE 2011.

It's been a myth of PES for years... I remember people thinking it was in PES4, 5 and 6 - obviously it wasn't.

It would look ridiculous if you could spin the ball while it's in the air, it's trajectory wouldn't match the animation. I think deliberate swerve can only be implemented in football video games by having modifiers, but then there's no room on the controller for more modifiers...

 

[mr_man]

Well no going back, pre-ordered the game after I realized I was actually having fun and not letting any of the technical BS bother me. I'll probably regret not waiting on how good online is but hey..

The individuality has won it for me.

 

[embraceuk1]

PES needs a new game engine its as simple as that.
EVERY GAME from every Genre on the PS3 or Xbox 360 that was on the PS2 or Xbox has a new engine to allow functionality with the latest hardware, Graphics and Audio.

Anyone on here who says it doesn't hasn't played PES before PES 3 even if they say they did.
The changes when they introduced PES3 with the new game engine were amazing compared to the first 2 games released on the PS2.
Compare Fifa 08 to Fifa 06/07 with its new game engine.

You have to also understand you will still have PES 2011 so don't be scared lol.
But it will look and play so much better and will allow the game to be worked on for years ahead to improve to the heights of PES 5 like PES3 did.
It wont be a PES2011 that is at the limits of the hardware and being stretched where continually remove functions so they can add etc.

Its whats best for the game and for us don't be scared especially if you haven't seen a new game engine introduced to PES before.

 

[Kaiser]

I really hope they added a little point to the BAL mode where after 6-7 seasons your are quite the player and have signed for a new club that don't chuck you into the reserves or bench you for the first 6 games...especially after you have been named European player of the year!

I never got that.

 

[Fitiello]

http://multiplayer.it/articoli/8102...-pes-2011-pes-world-finals-2010-mallorca.html

 

[Expander]

I wish you would stop editing your posts long after they have been written.

Anyway, to answer your edited, then re-edited, then re-edited again post, of course I was able to see the flaws in PES 2010, the mis-directed passing has always bugged me, you just learn to play around it. Just because I was keen to speak of what PES 2010 did well, when all around were highlighting what they felt it did bad, doesnt mean I dont see flaws. I'm pretty confident I see all the small things, I know what I'm looking for, dont you worry about that.

You on the other hand have based your recent arguments on claiming that the Winning Eleven demo is the basically the Holy Grail, that there is this new after-touch spin ability, that it has this perfect Ai, etc, etc. It's not true, it's all in your mind. There is very little difference to the PES 2011 demo, whether you want to believe it or not.

Now your trying to discredit me and thats low,just because your used to the d-pad and havent fully discovered the spin system in pes2011 or the subtleties of the analog stick,dont try and make me out to be imagining things.

You can add spin be it back,side or top and i whole heartedly disagree that the pes2011/demo we2011demo is the same or its some trick of the mind,i find that statement deeply insulting and a reflection that im bad at my job.Im the tester jimmy not you.

Theres just something not right hear jimmy,almost like your towing the line or deliberatly trying to get me to snap.

I wont mention my credentials,but if you really knew.....your not the authority on all things pes nor am i but im not a fool or am i a FANTACIST.

 

[mr_man]

Now your trying to discredit me and thats low,just because your used to the d-pad and havent fully discovered the spin system in pes2011 or the subtleties of the analog stick,dont try and make me out to be imagining things.

You can add spin be it back,side or top and i whole heartedly disagree that the pes2011 we2011 demo is the same or its some trick of the mind.

Theres just something not right hear jimmy,almost like your towing the line or deliberatly trying to get me to snap.

I wont mention my credentials,but if you really knew.....your not the authority on all things pes nor am i but im not a fool or am i a FANTACIST.

Are these 2 for real?

 

[mr_man]

PES needs a new game engine its as simple as that.
EVERY GAME from every Genre on the PS3 or Xbox 360 that was on the PS2 or Xbox has a new engine to allow functionality with the latest hardware, Graphics and Audio.

Anyone on here who says it doesn't hasn't played PES before PES 3 even if they say they did.
The changes when they introduced PES3 with the new game engine were amazing compared to the first 2 games released on the PS2.
Compare Fifa 08 to Fifa 06/07 with its new game engine.

You have to also understand you will still have PES 2011 so don't be scared lol.
But it will look and play so much better and will allow the game to be worked on for years ahead to improve to the heights of PES 5 like PES3 did.
It wont be a PES2011 that is at the limits of the hardware and being stretched where continually remove functions so they can add etc.

Its whats best for the game and for us don't be scared especially if you haven't seen a new game engine introduced to PES before.

I agree, but nonetheless, considering the amount of modern tech they've been able to squeeze on the old engine, it's pretty damn impressive.

 

[embraceuk1]

Good Point but we need to go back to the Evolution

 

[embraceuk1]

From PESFAN
Q&A With Seabass

This weekend at the PES World Finals, PESFan had the opportunity to be involved in a Q&A session with Seabass and members of the team. Here are a few of the questions and answers from that session.

Q: Last year you were not totally satisfied with PES 2010, how do you feel now with PES 2011?

A: I am confident we have done what we wanted to do and also feel that we have created what will prove to be a good base for future development. I am waiting to hear what the fans think in anticipation.

Q: Are there more plans for MLO in the future, such as player growth, and what did you learn from the Beta?

A: With MLO I wanted to give opportunities for users to play with their own teams online. When we made ML 8 years ago, one of the core points was to collect the best players to build a superstar team. With MLO we have kept this core point but this is just the first version; in future we will look to develop this further. With the Beta we were looking at the balance of the player prices and we have made some adjustments accordingly.

Q: Do you think the CPU AI should be more difficult or should there be higher difficulty settings? Can you clear up the difference in the 6th star difficulty in Winning Eleven compared to PES?

A: Yes, I think the difficulty should be higher and I will work on this to make options to be even more difficult. The 6th Star in Winning Eleven is exactly the same as the top setting in PES; it is only a different name. Winning Eleven and PES are exactly the same in AI difficulty - there has never been any difference.

Q: There are still questions over goal keeper ability. They used to be much better: why are they still not good enough?

A: In older versions of PES the goal keepers had super-human type reflexes that were not realistic. We tried to reduce this and make them more life like and make the same mistakes that goal keepers make in real life. I am happy that the keepers are much better in 2011.

Q: Would you consider adding a button to make nearby off the ball players like a winger make a run?

A: I would like the AI to do this automatically and will concentrate on trying to make this work. If I cannot get this to work via the AI then I will investigate other methods to achieve this.

Several other journalists had more questions but these were related to 2011 itself, for which all the answers have already been covered in the various previews. There were also various other sessions of Q&A so other sites may have different feedback.

 

[Rob92]

Now your trying to discredit me and thats low,just because your used to the d-pad and havent fully discovered the spin system in pes2011 or the subtleties of the analog stick,dont try and make me out to be imagining things.

You can add spin be it back,side or top and i whole heartedly disagree that the pes2011/demo we2011demo is the same or its some trick of the mind,i find that statement deeply insulting and a reflection that im bad at my job.Im the tester jimmy not you.

Theres just something not right hear jimmy,almost like your towing the line or deliberatly trying to get me to snap.

I wont mention my credentials,but if you really knew.....your not the authority on all things pes nor am i but im not a fool or am i a FANTACIST.

THERE IS NO AFTER-TOUCH SPIN IN PES 2011/WE 2011!

Don't you think it would be on the command list, or that other people here would be talking about it?