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PES 2011 Discussion thread

Jamezinho said:
Not really. The NBA 2K series had highly impressive animations and physics back in the early days of the 360. Then go back further and play NFL 2K5 on last-gen, which is still superior to Madden in pretty much every way.
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No mate longer then that. 2ksports use to be "sega sports"

the first 2K game came out on dreamcast
 
kiev123 said:
2w4kww5.jpg
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I think they did it on purpose to show Ronaldo's kick rotation that totally feinted the goalkeeper. I don't think it's unrealistic. I think i've seen similar goals.
 
mancan said:
Hi guys i have played pes 5 to 2010 today to try and see how its changed. i played 1 hour on each game.
From what i played it seemed pes 6 on xbox 360 best simulated football. pes 5 was very arcadey with things like the stop and go tactic and the shot fake and the lack of individuality between players when it comes to their control and first touch and dribbling ability.Pes 2008 was easily the worst pes game ever but this is because it seems that konami tried to add alot of player individuality and added a whole host on new animations but unfortunately these animations were very poor which meant lots of players moved unrealistically and for some reason with this new animation meant for some reason they had to change the ball physics which are the worst i have ever seen. Between pes 6 and 2008 they must have tried a new animation system or something maybe graphical because the graphical change is huge between these to games and maybe this is why in this new engine the game changed so drastically. Pes 2009 was a good attempt at trying to rectify the worst football game ever. But with that the individuality was again increased greatly this was a big change for me as i could feel the definitive touches between ronaldo and ferdinand. But again this game has poor ai and animations. Finally pes 2010 the animations which didnt actually change much blossomed under the new graphics engine which made them look better than what they are even though they are still really bad. But this game has more player individuality than any over by a long way especially when it comes to first touch and general control every player felt different.
In this small essay i focused on individuality because it is the biggest change i felt when playing through each game.
I want you all to try this and see what you see but from what i have experienced it seems konami tried to input individuality to player movements into the game but their first proper attempt pes 2008 went horrendously badly. But pes 2010 reaped some of those rewards but from playing mlo beta they toned individuality down a bit but have greatly reaped the rewards of their first trial and now pes 2008.1 will be the best pes to date
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Yeah I definitely agree, player individuality has always been a halllmark of the series but it really stands out in 2010.
 
kiev123 said:
2w4kww5.jpg
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Well I think it is very realistic.

Look closer at the keeper:
  1. He walks to his left.
  2. And immidietly jumps because the ball is already to near.

There is no time in between 1 and 2 for standing to check if he is right under the ball.

If there would be a pause in between 1 and 2 I would totally agree with you
 
JimboPL said:
I think they did it on purpose to show Ronaldo's kick rotation that totally feinted the goalkeeper. I don't think it's unrealistic. I think i've seen similar goals.
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I agree

u see the keeper head turning to the left when the balls curvs in
 
joeryan said:
All I ever hesr about their game is the great tech they're using. Yet I never see anything that impressive coming from it, and certainly nothing that makes the game a good representation of football. The only thing that seems to work well is the fluidity of linking animations. The animations themselves aren't even that good.

I'm assuming it's the same tech available to EA Tiburon. Neither game has any level of inertia or footplanting. Look at close ups of what's going on in both Madden and FIFA and there's insane amounts of skating and contant turning on a dime.

I never hear much being said about the tech 2K Sports (Visual Concepts) use, but their games are so much better at representing human movement and physics.
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Thats why i'm such a harsh critic of the game really!
 
Thypari said:
Well I think it is very realistic.

Look closer at the keeper:
  1. He walks to his left.
  2. And immidietly jumps because the ball is already to near.

There is no time in between 1 and 2 for standing to check if he is right under the ball.

If there would be a pause in between 1 and 2 I would totally agree with you
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There just needs to a smoother transition between the movements from the keeper. It is nice how the swerve on the ball fools him and he tries to rectify his body position though.

The only other thing that bothers me is his arms. They're stiff as a board, and it's rare for keepers to dive with two arms stiff as a board.
 
ono5985 said:
There just needs to a smoother transition between the movements from the keeper. It is nice how the swerve on the ball fools him and he tries to rectify his body position though.

The only other thing that bothers me is his arms. They're stiff as a board, and it's rare for keepers to dive with two arms stiff as a board.
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It's not against a power shot, they stiffen their arms to strengthen their wrists for impact. It's a parry block rather than an attempt to collect the ball, in that type of situation. Hence the term 'Strong hands', it's the wrists it refers to. Still not sure thats what he is attempting in the video though.

The bottom line is Ronaldo beat him with the bend. If anything is proves the goalkeeping isnt scripted, and the ball is a free entity.
 
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Jimmy G-Force said:
The bottom line is Ronaldo beat him with the bend. If anything is proves the goalkeeping isnt scripted, and the ball is a free entity.
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Really hope so and that the wobble isn't scripted. If it's not we should be able to see other shoots wobble too and not only freekicks from a chosen few.
 
Thypari said:
Well I think it is very realistic.

Look closer at the keeper:
  1. He walks to his left.
  2. And immidietly jumps because the ball is already to near.

There is no time in between 1 and 2 for standing to check if he is right under the ball.

If there would be a pause in between 1 and 2 I would totally agree with you
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Plus the keeper immediately tries to reach it with his arm, only to realize it's already in. Bear in mind the video is in slow motion here.

Also, Adam confirmed this video (plus music) is the intro in his review code (which means it's probably the final one too).
 
Gab_ said:
Really hope so and that the wobble isn't scripted. If it's not we should be able to see other shoots wobble too and not only freekicks from a chosen few.
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Not really, there is alot to get right with the freekick to get that exact height as well as other variables like correct after-touch. Nobody else in world football strikes the ball in the way, its un-natural, technically it really shouldnt work and it does. It's one of the only footballing techniques I cant get my head around. It's completely unique, I only want to see that from Ronaldo, scripted or not. There will be bend and after-touch on strikes though forsure, just maybe not to that extent. Individuality of the highest order.
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
It's not against a power shot, they stiffen their arms to strengthen their wrists for impact. It's a parry block rather than an attempt to collect the ball, in that type of situation. Hence the term 'Strong hands', it's the wrists it refers to. Still not sure thats what he is attempting in the video though.

The bottom line is Ronaldo beat him with the bend. If anything is proves the goalkeeping isnt scripted, and the ball is a free entity.
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As it happens mate, i'm a keeper. I think that's why i'm a little picky. When stiffening arms for impact for a shot like that, a keeper would normally leaves very little distance between his arms. The keeper in the video leaves a fairly big gap. It's also very common for a keeper to follow the ball into the net with his eyes (by turning his head as the ball goes past him). On PES10 this doesn't really happen. Like i said, i'm nit-picking. :P
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
Not really, there is alot to get right with the freekick to get that exact height as well as other variables like correct after-touch. Nobody else in world football strikes the ball in the way, its un-natural, technically it really shouldnt work and it does. It's one of the only footballing techniques I cant get my head around. It's completely unique, I only want to see that from Ronaldo, scripted or not. There will be bend and after-touch on strikes though forsure, just maybe not to that extent. Individuality of the highest order.
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Wobbly balls happens all the time, it's just more obvious on free kicks. Half the goals in WC was because of that.
 
Jamezinho said:
Not really. The NBA 2K series had highly impressive animations and physics back in the early days of the 360. Then go back further and play NFL 2K5 on last-gen, which is still superior to Madden in pretty much every way.
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That's 2K done; what about PES?

There is nothing wrong with the technology. It's the application of it. FIFA isn't skatey because the tech is wrong but because they haven't made the turning speeds/responsiveness match the limits of a human being. FIFA 08 was a lot closer IIRC but I haven't really analysed a bid to confirm that.

All joeryan really did with the spoilered post was embellish on this. It's one of those things where people just equate failed application to failed tech. It tends to be overlooked that a lot of what PES achieves with ball physics is achieved the hard way, rather than by creating an unscripted system that creates lots of procedurally generated outcomes. One of the things FIFA gets spot on is the ball deflection, where the ball spin and trajectory change is as bang on as you're going to see in a football game this hen. That's because it's a proper physics system.

If Konami had FIFA's animation and ball physics engines licensed so they could tweak all the numbers behind the scenes, you'd have comfortably more realistic animation and physics than you see in it's current application. As I sId though you'd lose the power currently allocated elsewhere.
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
True, the type of ball used ensured that was the case,not really the technique of a strike.
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Yeah that was what I meant, not that people would shoot like him (with the dip and all). Every time you get a shot with very little spin you will have that effect, it might have been slightly more in this WC but it happens with all balls.
 
any news on the teams in other league A? hopefully konami havent replaced them with the copa libertadores teams. there will be alot less editing to do if all the teams from pes 2010 are all present and correct
 
romagnoli said:
That's 2K done; what about PES?

There is nothing wrong with the technology. It's the application of it.
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romagnoli; There's nothing impressive about PES's tech, infact, it's quite disgusting when you find animations that were in the old PS2's generation of PES games. That's why I cringe when people think it's a good idea making PES 6 with HD graphics-- when you combine HD visuals with crappy PS2 era animations then not much good will come out of that...
 
goalgerd said:
any news on the teams in other league A? hopefully konami havent replaced them with the copa libertadores teams. there will be alot less editing to do if all the teams from pes 2010 are all present and correct
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Nah, Copa dos Libertadores is in fact in their own little world, you can't play exhebition matches or have the teams/players on Master League, on the review code.
 
_anderson said:
Nah, Copa dos Libertadores is in fact in their own little world, you can't play exhebition matches or have the teams/players on Master League, on the review code.
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I really cannot see them not being available for exhibition matches, that would be ludicrous. I cant think of any team that is any PES game that you cant or couldnt play with in Exhibition.
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
I really cannot see them not being available for exhibition matches, that would be ludicrous. I cant think of any team that is any PES game that you cant or couldnt play with in Exhibition.
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The fact that they aren't available on Exhibition explains why they aren't available on Master League either.
 
romagnoli said:
FIFA isn't skatey because the tech is wrong but because they haven't made the turning speeds/responsiveness match the limits of a human being.
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I'm assuming you were given a studio tour of some sort where all this EA tech was explained to you.

I've obviously not been afforded this privilege. I have though played the various sports games EA has developed using their tech, and it's funny that the same physics issues crop up in them. Whether that be laziness on their part by taking shortcuts, a lack of knowledge or a problem with the tech. It's no surprise the only top sports title they produce is a hockey game, which is all about skating.

I know 2K are using a pretty old system to make NBA2K, which NBA Live (now Elite) was supposed to wipe the floor with, if EA were to be believed. That obviously hasn't happened, as the EA game suffers from much of those same FIFA/Madden issues, while NBA 2K is arguably the best sports gaming franchise currently in development. Then you look at NFL 2K5 and you have a game from 2004 which demonstrates much better physics than any sports game EA has ever produced. At some point you have to wonder when this highly lauded tech is going to produce a top notch game.
 
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