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PES 2011 Discussion thread

Expander said:
It doesnt quite work like that goalgerd,you can only assign one trick to the link combo at a time,not,four of the same tricks plus its four separate pushes in four different directions on the right stick or you would have to go through all the tricks to do the first,and you have to have space and time.You dont just press the direction once and the player does four tricks automatically in tandem.

Your making quite a big deal of this when its clear this system does have a context within the game and that most people will use it how its designed to be used.Youve had your five minutes of fame on youtube and do you not think konami have a team of testers to pick these things up.

The MLO beta is to test the online stability and see how different internet connections work and there various speeds.

With all due respect your making a mockery of what the MLO beta is intended to test,if konami wanted to publicly beta test the gameplay they would have done.Alot of people who didnt get choosen would have used there time more wisely not spread hysteria across the community with cheap exploits that betas always throw up.

You could do a rainbow flick with any player in ISS on the n64 and one after the other,but the novelty soon wore off and a good player would put your player on his arse with a shoulder barge or a well timed tackle.Just because your getting away with it in the beta doesnt mean you will in the final game.
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do you not think if i said nothing and the game went ahead as is and a couple of weeks down the road people started spamming the tricks system online konami would have looked like fools? at least now they are aware of the possible problems before the full game is released and still have time to fix or change the trick mechanism . as for looking for 5mins of fame you are barking up the wrong tree, im already quite famous on all pes game sites with my option files over the last 4 years getting a half million hits,try goalgerd in google youll see;)
 
goalgerd said:
do you not think if i said nothing and the game went ahead as is and a couple of weeks down the road people started spamming the tricks system online konami would have looked like fools? at least now they are aware of the possible problems before the full game is released and still have time to fix or change the trick mechanism . as for looking for 5mins of fame you are barking up the wrong tree, im already quite famous on all pes game sites with my option files over the last 4 years getting a half million hits,try goalgerd in google youll see;)
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I wasnt getting personel,your just not in possession of all the facts and im not sure you quite understand what a BETA is and how it pales in comparison to a final product and how the beta stage is the point in the developement process thats intended to pick these issues up and how this would of been done months ago.There not idiots pes productions as they have some of the most talented coders and testers on this planet,and would have gone through the causes and effects of the trick system with a fine tooth comb.

Pes2011 has already gone gold so its a bit late to make changes,although i do understand your setiments.

Ive been programming games for 15 years and have games on my cv that in terms of sales exceed your option file hit count,but thats another story.

In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king:))
 
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That's good. I've sent him that clip goalgerd made when he posted it here. It's so wrong I had to twitter Jon about it asap. Also noticed wasn't the only one complaining :) Surely all this pressure got him to immediately report it to Japan.

I hope something is done about it..
 
Expander said:
I wasnt getting personel,your just not in possession of all the facts and im not sure you quite understand what a BETA is and how it pales in comparison to a final product and how the beta stage is the point in the developement process thats intended to pick these issues up and how this would of been done months ago.There not idiots pes productions as they have some of the most talented coders and testers on this planet,and would have gone through the causes and effects of the trick system with a fine tooth comb.

Pes2011 has already gone gold so its a bit late to make changes,although i do understand your setiments.

Ive been programming games for 15 years and have games on my cv that in terms of sales exceed your option file hit count,but thats another story.

In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king:))
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fair points made , maybe ive gone about it the wrong way but i suppose the ends justify the means. you know what youre talking about so i cant argue with the facts youve presented :))
 
Expander said:
Nothing wrong with a bit of healthy discussion,we are all grown men.
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Stop making it sound so patronising then. It's not the first time you've tried to belittle another poster by brandishing your as yet completely unproven history of games development. We all know what a beta for; at the same time it's utterly pivotal that we give as much feedback as possible in as many areas as possible. Whether Konami need to heed that feedback, or they've already made changes in this area, is irrelevant. Sitting on your hands doing nothing about what would be a gamebreaking flaw as opposed to just waxing lyrical about what the game seems like it could be would be utterly stupid. We all have feedback on MLO itself; but it's not as if you have covered your ears to the positive stuff just because it isn't a gameplay beta, is it?
 
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goalgerd said:
fair points made , maybe ive gone about it the wrong way but i suppose the ends justify the means. you know what youre talking about so i cant argue with the facts youve presented :))
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Fairplay,but wait until the demo or final game before making conclusions about tricks when the betas the same code i sampled back in june at e3.

You wont be the only one spittting feathers if theres not a system in place to counter trick whores,it has its place but the beta doesnt give you the tools to remedy this which would curtail the spammers and force people to use tricks at the right time and in the right context of the game.Im confident shoulder barges and other defensive nuances have been added to give the defensive side of the game the same balance as attack.

The nature of developing a new control interface for a football game often means that things are assigned to every player in the early part of the development process,its not a oversight its just the way things work,although im pretty confident much like the card system only certain players will be able to do certain tricks.

The beta seems to be missing some serious key components and the defensive ai doesnt seem to be as tuned as i imagine it is in the final version.
 
romagnoli said:
Stop making it sound so patronising then. It's not the first time you've tried to belittle another poster by brandishing your as yet completely unproven history of games development. We all know what a beta for; at the same time it's utterly pivotal that we give as much feedback as possible in as many areas as possible. Whether Konami need to heed that feedback, or they've already made changes in this area, is irrelevant. Sitting on your hands doing nothing about what would be a gamebreaking flaw as opposed to just waxing lyrical about what the game seems like it could be would be utterly stupid. We all have feedback on MLO itself; but it's not as if you have covered your ears to the positive stuff just because it isn't a gameplay beta, is it?
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But your kind of missing the point rom,its not a gameplay beta otherwise it would of been released months ago,what difference is a questionare going to make on the 26th of august when the games already complete.

Its not like you dont patronise people and i have no intent to patronise,i just dont see the point in worrying about issues in a game that were probably ironed out over the course of the last 2 months or fueling the fire of the negative all over the net whos perceptions of pes are already tarnished who believe this MLO beta is a true indication of the final product when its the same as the e3 code that i did sample.Look back at my posts i wasnt wrong was i.Lets wait for the demo before we can make a more concrete judgement.

I have only mentioned im a game developer once on this forum and that was when discussing the nuances of ISS with you,which you lambasted as being arcady because i stated that fifa10 had cloned alot of its facets.

Ive never boasted about the games i have helped create or worked on,just stating a fact and im entitled to a opinion as much as the next man.
 
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Whether it's too late for PES2011 or not, any issues should be discussed and reported to Konami so that, at the very least, they can be rectified during the development of PES2012. And who knows, small issues can be fixed with a patch after the game has been released. It's never too late.

I agree that the MLO beta was not intended for gameplay feedback, but Konami must have known what they were letting themselves in for.
 
Jamezinho said:
Whether it's too late for PES2011 or not, any issues should be discussed and reported to Konami so that, at the very least, they can be rectified during the development of PES2012. And who knows, small issues can be fixed with a patch after the game has been released. It's never too late.

I agree that the MLO beta was not intended for gameplay feedback, but Konami must have known what they were letting themselves in for.
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Good point,but lets wait for the demo or final game first,no one knows if these issues are still issues,which is kind of my point.

Pes has become a victim of its own success and the last three years has convinced most people that pes productions cant make a high quality product any more regardless of the previous 17 years of excellence and attention to detail.Every negative point within the game is higlighted more then the positives with most people happy to jump on the bandwagon and critique it at every point of developement.

Maybe konami are naive or maybe they were just expecting the loyal fans like yourself to register for the MLO beta who would embrace the improvements but not post every bug or glitch in the game on youtube which is hardly conductive of a fan or someone who wants the game to be a success imo.

There was a very clever base laid in pes2010 that wasnt quite the full ticket and was very undercooked requiring a lot more layering of the animations and a freed up control interface but they where never going to do it in a year or will pes2011 be faultless.

Were talking about a dev team thats one fifth the size of fifas dev team that produces miracles in a year which is nothing in developement terms without selling out or choosing the easy option of just catering for a different market or cashing in.
 
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Expander said:
Good point,but lets wait for the demo or final game first,no one knows if these issues are still issues,which is kind of my point.
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It will be too late by the time the demo hits. That is unless Konami can patch gameplay changes into the game. We don't know what's been fixed so it's best to highlight every issue.
 
Jamezinho said:
Whether it's too late for PES2011 or not, any issues should be discussed and reported to Konami so that, at the very least, they can be rectified during the development of PES2012. And who knows, small issues can be fixed with a patch after the game has been released. It's never too late.

I agree that the MLO beta was not intended for gameplay feedback, but Konami must have known what they were letting themselves in for.
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^

EDIT: I've had to edit and delete a few posts. Please keep this on-topic and take your personal stuff somewhere else.
 
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Not played the game, but by judging from the videos, the 360 movement seems to have the same problems the last game had. It snaps to one of the 8 directions, and you need to force it not to move in them. Shame.
 
Even if it's too late for repairing this ridiculous rainbow flip, they will probably release a patch when the game comes out. It's not a big problem i think. Good that you reported this to Jon Murphy.
 
@ Expander - And the truth is we dont know if it is fixed or if they will fix it as Jon said that he has passed it on for them to address.

That means it isnt on his current "cheat sheet" of answers to pass on to the community like how he has easily said "keepers have been fixed since the beta".
 
Slobber said:
Not played the game, but by judging from the videos, the 360 movement seems to have the same problems the last game had. It snaps to one of the 8 directions, and you need to force it not to move in them. Shame.
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Maybe an assumption yes, but you just can't make a judgement like that from videos mate. It is better than 2010 imo. Why I'm saying this because I couldn't feel at perfectly at home using the stick in 2010. Whereas in 2011 it feels just fine :)

The demo should give you the judgement you're looking for.
 
Lami said:
^

EDIT: I've had to edit and delete a few posts. Please keep this on-topic and take your personal stuff somewhere else.
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That's fine. It was a bit petty. I was also pointing out inconsistencies in the reasoning - if we can't talk about the negatives then we can't talk about positives either - but I guess the fundamental point that all feedback will always be worth sending whether used or not (and this is being sent on after all) has been made firmly enough.
 
master_smurf said:
@ Expander - And the truth is we dont know if it is fixed or if they will fix it as Jon said that he has passed it on for them to address.

That means it isnt on his current "cheat sheet" of answers to pass on to the community like how he has easily said "keepers have been fixed since the beta".
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Cool,but how can it be judged when you have a beta without the tracking and covering system or a complete and implemented way of countering it in the beta.Even john murphys not going to know how effective the covering sytem is until the real skilled players play and give feedback on the final code,although im sure the dev team do.Hes a marketing man not a coder and will say what needs to be said to quite the storm whether thats stating its been passed on or not.Naturally if you have a trick sytem that allows you to push the right stick in one direction to pull off a trick your going to be able to do that trick again and again but surely you must be able to get a foot in or press that player out of the game its stands to reason,no developer in there right mind is not going to pick up on that its basic.


If people are worried about every player doing it then thats fine and valid although i dont have a issue with it because ISS had it and IMO it was a novelty and easily countered,rarely did you have a 100% success rate if you tryed to pull it off against good opposition because the game was balanced properly and you could allow the ball carrier some space but not enough to pull it off and skin your man.

If they go down the route of it works everytime regardless then its a gamebreaker and peoples concerns are valid.

Maybe goalgerds got the reflexes of a superhuman.
 
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Expander riddle me this, why do you think that konami won't allow us to mix kits as they did in WE10, same thing with Fifa, and how hard is it to add dirt to kits and pitch wear & tear?
 
pepper63 said:
Expander riddle me this, why do you think that konami won't allow us to mix kits as they did in WE10, same thing with Fifa, and how hard is it to add dirt to kits and pitch wear & tear?
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Im not the oracle,but its probably down to the limited dev time and finetuning the gameplay which for me is more important then cosmetics currently.I miss these touches to but there fruitless if the gameplays naff.

Your not going to be buying the game if the gameplays shit but the nets look pretty,the shirts get wet/dirty and the pitches degrade,there the icing on the cake not the cake.
 
Expander said:
Cool,but how can it be judged when you have a beta without the tracking and covering system or a complete and implemented way of countering it in the beta.Even john murphys not going to know how effective the covering sytem is until the real skilled players play and give feedback on the final code,although im sure the dev team do.Hes a marketing man not a coder and will say what needs to be said to quite the storm whether thats stating its been passed on or not.Naturally if you have a trick sytem that allows you to push the right stick in one direction to pull off a trick your going to be able to do that trick again and again but surely you must be able to get a foot in or press that player out of the game its stands to reason,no developer in there right mind is not going to pick up on that its basic.


If people are worried about every player doing it then thats fine and valid although i dont have a issue with it because ISS had it and IMO it was a novelty and easily countered,rarely did you have a 100% success rate if you tryed to pull it off against good opposition because the game was balanced properly and you could allow the ball carrier some space but not enough to pull it off and skin your man.

If they go down the route of it works everytime regardless then its a gamebreaker and peoples concerns are valid.

Maybe goalgerds got the reflexes of a superhuman.
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I know we've already read that things have been ironed out and fixed etc, but we beta testers can only comment and feedback on what we see. I'd rather feedback all the negatives I've witnessed and make sure they got it rather than just hope they have them already noted and fixed, or on their to-do list.

If they were already ironed out, then Konami, or Jon Murphy, surely will respond telling us that :)
 
pepper63 said:
Expander riddle me this, why do you think that konami won't allow us to mix kits as they did in WE10, same thing with Fifa, and how hard is it to add dirt to kits and pitch wear & tear?
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Konami said it was some sort of license issue, which seemed strange, but the only valid answer really, it cant take 2 minutes to add that back in so I dont see it as time.
 
Stalscu said:
What means freedom when i give a ball in free space and my winger can't run on full speed (but his legs are still moving fast)?

Still the same engine. It is a lot better then previous installments, but this game will be full of cheats again.
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Another year with Gameplay cheats
 
Everyone bitching about the beta. Need you be reminded you are playing a beta. The gamescom videos i have seen look miles better than that of the beta.
 
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