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PES 2011 Discussion thread
- Thread starter NightWish
- Start date
Jimmy G-Force
Resident PES Fanman
Thats not the type of angles I mean bud. Fifa has 360 passing as far as I'm aware, with alot more angles of passing in that regard. Or so Rom tells me, and I have no reason to dis-believe him. But those extra angles are not made up from relevant posture. Not on assisted or manual for obvious reasons. I'm talking angles from a technical standpoint. The fundementals of passing in real life are all based on your body posture, body angle, preferred foot. In order to try and replicate the real 'feel' of passing in a video game, you have to make 'wrong posture' have a detrimental effect, so that 'correct posture' gives you the technical reproduction you would feel on the pitch in real life. PES does this, Fifa doesnt.
For example, a simple turn with a poor first touch will leave the ball in a position/angle that isnt best suited to complete the most accurate pass. Only great players with excellent technique will still be able to complete this pass, lesser players will have less consistency. This is what I mean by angles. The variables are massive, because each following touch has percentage equation to the accuracy of what follows. If every player has the same touch, the ball is always the same distance from his body to the next, then this whole system falls down from a realism reproduction. What PES does very very well, is follow the basic fundementals. If you play in the way you would expect in real life, it replicates it. The same goes for shooting, heading, passing, everything.
It only falls down to an extent when you have people abusing the statistics of players, leaving lesser room for posture error by spamming the likes of Messi and Ronaldo. Double-edged sword the statistic world. Thats why PES will always be at its best with lesser teams. More room for error, more realistic. The biggest plus point of PES 2011 is the increase of the ability to have more variation to the players limbs, this creates even more angles, more opportunity. Or with Messi, too many angles.
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Jimmy G-Force
Resident PES Fanman
romagnoli
Misses Retri
- 7 August 2004
It always used to be Thursday but for some reason they changed it. I didn't know it had happened at all - presumably it coincided with the PSN Plus launch.
Blame Jamez, I took his Thursday demo day as gospel.
Sorry meant Tuesday for Plus demos.
Is it Thursdays for 360?
_anderson
Retired Fanboy
360 can update at any day.
On the FIFA vs PES video, my only gripe with FIFA are the animations. They are great, but players seem to be "ice-skating", there's no apparent depth on the field and players, everything is kinda "floaty", everything turns out to be too smooth. And tbh, although I think the guys playing FIFA suck big time at it and I'm probably not being fair on saying this, but it looks very much like FIFA 10
Jimmy G-Force
Resident PES Fanman
What is this ? And how do I get it Rom ?
Yes, irritatingly even though the 360 can update any day they've decided to do it Wednesday rather than Tuesday, presumably because it means that most FIFA fans (Europeans) will get it on the same day for PS/3/60.
That reminds me, Bioshock DLC came out today...
@Jimmy; PSN Plus is a premium service which gives you early stuff, and free stuff:
http://uk.playstation.com/playstationplus/
That reminds me, Bioshock DLC came out today...
@Jimmy; PSN Plus is a premium service which gives you early stuff, and free stuff:
http://uk.playstation.com/playstationplus/
romagnoli
Misses Retri
- 7 August 2004
The videos of FIFA are odd - it didn't look at all like it does in the gamescom videos, for speed or lightness of players. It was the first thing I noticed when I got to the Emirates and watched a match.
That said, I agree with the consensus on it anyway - the brand new contextual error on passes is minimal and it means there's no real reason to turn and face before passing. Similarly the first touch error EA said they were putting in seems to have vanished too. I disagree with comments about the ball looking like it doesn't interact with the pitch - the fact that the ball can be hit flat along the surface and that the turf doesnt seem to be inches thick as it does in PES 2011 is a strong point. But the fact that every single pass is identically weighted (which it wasn't in Guildford) and the players can control the ball so tightly means that the ball never seems to stop moving or seem out of control - hence it looks on rails and generally unnatural.
There's no reason why 360 dribbling as opposed to 16/32 way movement should make it impossible to represent player momentum or differences in agility; again it's a case of updating the method of representing these aspects of football accordingly.
That said, I agree with the consensus on it anyway - the brand new contextual error on passes is minimal and it means there's no real reason to turn and face before passing. Similarly the first touch error EA said they were putting in seems to have vanished too. I disagree with comments about the ball looking like it doesn't interact with the pitch - the fact that the ball can be hit flat along the surface and that the turf doesnt seem to be inches thick as it does in PES 2011 is a strong point. But the fact that every single pass is identically weighted (which it wasn't in Guildford) and the players can control the ball so tightly means that the ball never seems to stop moving or seem out of control - hence it looks on rails and generally unnatural.
There's no reason why 360 dribbling as opposed to 16/32 way movement should make it impossible to represent player momentum or differences in agility; again it's a case of updating the method of representing these aspects of football accordingly.
Jimmy G-Force
Resident PES Fanman
Thanks Rod, I'll check it out. If I can get the demo a day earlier, I'll be a happy man. A sad man based upon my obsession, but nontheless happy and content.
Yes Jimmy, you can find it in the PSN store as well, right at the top.
EDIT: About the demo coming out earlier on PS plus, that's not for every demo, it's only a select few. It ain't guaranteed that every demo comes out a day earlier for Plus users. Depends on Konami and Sony I guess.
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Jamezinho
Golden Boot Winner
Yeah, sorry it definitely always used to be Thursdays on the 360 but my gold subscription ran out earlier this year so not been on that console much. Didn't it always used to be Thursdays for PS3 as well?
Anyway no complaints, if the demo comes this Wednesday all the better.
@ Jimmy: PSN+ costs £39.99 for a year or £11.99 for 90 days. It depends if you're willing to pay that to get the demo a day early. Not to go off topic but I'm struggling to see the benefits of PSN+.
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I guess the primary reason is that FIFA really has two turning circles. It has the sprinting one, where you have the maximum 22.5 degree turn, and the jogging one, which allows you to turn near enough as you like. At jogging pace EA don't really deem it necessary to apply momentum/inertia type stuff, and at sprinting, the way they show it is by fundamentally limiting your turning angle. Neither make a huge amount of sense really.
All the momentum based stuff comes down to a limitation of turning angle, and that's really the issue. It should be a case of being able to turn as you like and live with contextual consequences, as opposed to Messi having to jog to do the same turn as (think of clumsy dribbler here).
Slowly EA are making more things contextual - touch/turn/control is surely the last one of these which really needs to be done (though the other parts could be done better).
The whole way pace, control and touch is done seems backwards relative to the 360 degree dribbling. I kinda think that analog sprint should be the first step towards undoing that, not sure it is though.
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Jimmy G-Force
Resident PES Fanman
Yeah that seems a little expensive, more so the fact the only game that resides in my PS3 is PES, and UFC occasionally. I may have to give that a miss, then again, if it's there, and I see it, I know I'll buy a 90 day pass, I just know it. I'm a mug like that.
Where's Murphy with these Tweets FFS, he cant keep us in limbo like this after removing MLO.
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Wasn't that Microsoft ( LIVE ) and Sony (PSN ) always put demo's through some kind of certifying procedure? From Microsoft I am pretty sure. This might cost a week or so. That's why I do not expect the demo before medium september.
_anderson
Retired Fanboy
It's pretty clear, from Jon's Tweets and a specific Adam post, that that certifying procedure as already taken place.
Jimmy G-Force
Resident PES Fanman
What they need to do Rod is implement this first, it's the base for everything that follows. It has to be the first port of call.
Jamezinho
Golden Boot Winner
Yes I'm sure that's the case, but maybe the demo has already been through certification? Then again if it's based on retail code I think it's still too early for a demo. Like you I was predicting a demo to surface on about the 15th.
Jimmy G-Force
Resident PES Fanman
True. It's ready to go live now from everything I've read. Will someone just press the fricking button.
_anderson
Retired Fanboy
There was a pseudo-final code on Gamescom already, on closed doors. And review code is already "out there".
Jamezinho
Golden Boot Winner
How can you certify the demo that is not finished?
Konami has promised to make a demo from the 100% version.
At best today the game is finished ( going gold because it is 1 month before the release ) so at best they can today offer the game to certify.
EDIT: To me a 'pseudo final code ' is not a final code...
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dmxdex2020
Premier League
i think it will be next week or the week after.
Seems most had their two cents on the comparison video, so here's my brief reaction:
Someone mentioned this earlier, you watch FIFA and you have zero interest in the outcome of the match, whereas PES videos you actually watch the football with interest. FIFA doesn't move like football. It's still the same game, the back and forth from one end to the other with each defence pushing up to the middle of the pitch.
PES has taken some stick for animations, especially the Baywatch running in the past. I would always tell people that FIFA's were just as bad in their own way. That is now becoming clear to more people. The running and dribbling animations in that game are awful. The players take too many touches dribbling and just run around like apes.
FIFA has no foot planting and no sense of player weight, and awful floaty ball physics. It's just looks like a system trying to produce animations on the fly with players skating all over the place. If you look at a video or screenshot of it close up, the studs are always visible because the player's feet aren't in the turf.
PES may still be some way off the game we want, but at least it has a solid base, something too many people claimed FIFA had. I think some need a bit of a schooling on football itself.
Someone mentioned this earlier, you watch FIFA and you have zero interest in the outcome of the match, whereas PES videos you actually watch the football with interest. FIFA doesn't move like football. It's still the same game, the back and forth from one end to the other with each defence pushing up to the middle of the pitch.
PES has taken some stick for animations, especially the Baywatch running in the past. I would always tell people that FIFA's were just as bad in their own way. That is now becoming clear to more people. The running and dribbling animations in that game are awful. The players take too many touches dribbling and just run around like apes.
FIFA has no foot planting and no sense of player weight, and awful floaty ball physics. It's just looks like a system trying to produce animations on the fly with players skating all over the place. If you look at a video or screenshot of it close up, the studs are always visible because the player's feet aren't in the turf.
PES may still be some way off the game we want, but at least it has a solid base, something too many people claimed FIFA had. I think some need a bit of a schooling on football itself.
_anderson
Retired Fanboy
I know why you're saying this, it's because of the MLO beta. We're supposed to get a 100% code in terms of "in-game", that's why it's a demo, otherwise they could be shipping the full game now then lol.
I'm just saying, many things point out to this week. I could be terribly wrong, but I hope not
kamy100
Premier League
- 9 June 2003
Exacly, Jon said in the WENB podcast that people will have to wait for a demo because they want it to be from the final code so that it is truly representative of the game. If it is going to be based on Final Code then there is little or no chance that it will come out this week. If it is going to be based on slightly earlier code then it could be out this week.
Jimmy G-Force
Resident PES Fanman
That's a little too late in the day I think. Being the eternal optimist, and based on what has happened in the run-up, I do expect it imminently.
1. They want it out as soon as possible, they have been shouting from the rooftops about his game, and with good cause.
2. It's already later than last years demo, in relation to the release date.
3. Murphy said as soon as the Beta has finished he will let us know, expect next week. That was last week.
4. I want it now, and the God's usually smile favourably on me.
I know why you're saying this, it's because of the MLO beta. We're supposed to get a 100% code in terms of "in-game", that's why it's a demo, otherwise they could be shipping the full game now then lol.
I'm just saying, many things point out to this week. I could be terribly wrong, but I hope not
No, I do not count the ML Beta. I expect Konami to rectify bugs etc. from the ML online demo with a patch on the release-date.
I mean it the way I putted it in this post:
Jamezinho
Golden Boot Winner
Was it not "expect news next week"?
_anderson
Retired Fanboy
What makes you think that the things that matter, for a demo, aren't "100%" already for a few weeks now?
One more thing In favor of this week (or next), for the past few years, the demo came out almost at the same time that the first review code reports started to show up. Some journos have review code since last week already.