PES 2009 General Discussion Etc. (STRICTLY NO FIFA TALK OR POLITICAL CHAT)

[goalgerd]

Re: PES 2009 News Discussion & Rumours (STRICTLY NO FIFA DEMO IMPRESSIONS)

theres no oficial confirmation that the CL teams will be licensed just because konami got the CL license...
i think the best cenario we can have is that those teams will be licensed only in the CL mode...but knowing konami i doubt about that...
i think CL license will be a mere gimmic. Wont really help with the club licenses.

i agree,only thing that will be in champions league mode will be ball, adboards, music and cup at the end of it

 

[forbidden]

Re: PES 2009 News Discussion & Rumours (STRICTLY NO FIFA DEMO IMPRESSIONS)

Yes, i think thats why Konami don´t release better and more information about the CL-Mode. It would be great news, also a little punch against FIFA.

 

[brunnoce]

Re: PES 2009 News Discussion & Rumours (STRICTLY NO FIFA DEMO IMPRESSIONS)

i agree,only thing that will be in champions league mode will be ball, adboards, music and cup at the end of it

if we would have any aditional club licensed evan if it was only for the CL mode, im sure konami would have released a picture of arsenal or chelsea with proper kits for instance.
since they didnt do that, i highly doubt they will be licensed for this mode..i think it will be mere mode in the game, nothing more, lets at least hope that the CL is proper represented in the ML

 

[Dr Force]

Re: PES 2009 News Discussion & Rumours (STRICTLY NO FIFA DEMO IMPRESSIONS)

Its not that much of an issue though is it??

just have great fun editing the tems you want in it

 

[Chris Davies]

Re: PES 2009 News Discussion & Rumours (STRICTLY NO FIFA DEMO IMPRESSIONS)

Not all of us find hours upon hours of fixing all the unlicensed stuff fun though Dr (and it's never as accurate as it would be if it was licensed). That's why patches are so popular.

 

[Dr Force]

Re: PES 2009 News Discussion & Rumours (STRICTLY NO FIFA DEMO IMPRESSIONS)

Not all of us find hours upon hours of fixing all the unlicensed stuff fun though Dr (and it's never as accurate as it would be if it was licensed). That's why patches are so popular.

It's a fair point, but due to the total lack of authenticity in any league modes, I was just refering to the CL, which should not take so long to do and will (IMO) be the most popular competition to play.

ML does nothing for me, it never has and never will, but creating authentic tournaments has always been great

 

[brunnoce]

Re: PES 2009 News Discussion & Rumours (STRICTLY NO FIFA DEMO IMPRESSIONS)

Its not that much of an issue though is it??

just have great fun editing the tems you want in it

yeh, i love that too

the only thing that bothers me is to have some unlicensed teams and some licensed...
i wish we could at least 'unlicense' the licensed teams..so i could have a pathern..i hate to play a game that one team has the real kit and all and the other has only the edit mode kits.
i rather have them all from the edit mode if i cant have all real kits(thats why i swicthed to the pc version, kitserver)

 

[goalgerd]

Re: PES 2009 News Discussion & Rumours (STRICTLY NO FIFA DEMO IMPRESSIONS)

yeh, i love that too

the only thing that bothers me is to have some unlicensed teams and some licensed...
i wish we could at least 'unlicense' the licensed teams..so i could have a pathern..i hate to play a game that one team has the real kit and all and the other has only the edit mode kits.
i rather have them all from the edit mode if i cant have all real kits(thats why i swicthed to the pc version, kitserver)

i think in the past pes games the edited kits looked better than the original pes kits,im still playing a fully updated pes6 and the kits look great. saying that il get the pc pes09 and use kitsever for the 1st time

 

[pjft]

Re: PES 2009 News Discussion & Rumours (STRICTLY NO FIFA DEMO IMPRESSIONS)

Well the engine is a port is it not? It's the same as the Ps2 engine that was ported over to the PS3/360. So the same issues will carry over as well. I think we are all excited to see a whole new engine built from scratch come out of Konami...

The fact that the game mechanics are similar as the ones from even the PSOne ones has no bearing whatsoever to the engine per se. That's like saying that Halo3's engine is a port of Halo2's one.

The mechanics have been kept the same because the game worked well with them. It doesn't mean that the engine is a port.

But some issues can be fixed with a more powerful hardware, like that offered by actual consoles like PS3.
I remember back in PS2 days when the fact "we cannot add more teams because the dvd is not so big" was known as a fact. Then BR appears and the fact turned in just an urban legend. Or in 1 word: LIES.

Sure enough, I'm all up for fixing issues - or even going deeper, as I'll go next in my post. Nonetheless, I still don't see what makes it an old-gen engine, instead of a next-gen engine that kept the previous gameplay mechanics because they have worked so far.

Chris' post

Thanks for taking the time and dissecting through my questions. I'll also reply to yours too, because I don't like to leave a dialogue in the middle.

The CPU AI is the main one, which I said in my last post. If you're a striker in the box and the ball falls to you with three defenders around you, press shoot and your reaction is delayed (I have no time for anyone who says otherwise because I see it with my own eyes every time I play PES, whether it's PES5 or PES2008). Also, when you sprint to get near to the box and suddenly your player will do a huge knock-ahead, which he stands no chance of getting, and it rolls to the goalkeeper. Also, routines such as deflections landing perfectly at an AI player's feet, time and time and time again. Also, your team-mates' movement (your wingers don't help you despite fiddling with the arrows).

These were all in effect on the PSone because the console couldn't cope with so many calculations. But they've never been amended because of all the tweaks and additional code that now lies on top of it. It would be easier to start again from scratch - but like I said, not everybody dislikes the game.

I agree that these behaviors might put you off - as well as many others - and I agree that they could be fixed. The AI, as far as I'm concerned, could vastly be improved - and by improved, I'm actually open to parts of it being rewritten from scratch, no problem. But the AI being rewritten - even if it is from scratch (even though I don't see the need for it, since it also has its good spots) - doesn't make a new engine. It doesn't need a new engine. The ball physics, even if it is rewritten, doesn't mean that the game - per se - needs a new engine. The engine is the sum of all parts.

I completely follow the tower of blocks analogy.

I'm just not ready to agree - nor understand - why is everyone so eager to say that we need to demolish the whole tower altogether, because that is what the game needs, instead of considering the chance that the tower is indeed a new, modern tower, whose blocks were made to resemble the previous tower (because they stood up pretty well), and it's now a simple task (well, not simple, but a simpler task than creating a whole new one) to re-do and improve - or re-create - the blocks that are less proper for this use.

Everyone is so eager to say that a new tower is needed because it is not well built and is not capable of supporting much more.

I'm saying that the older tower was made of wood, and this is a replica of it made of steel, and which has much more possibilities of being built upon and parts being replaced and made better.

I'd just like that, asides from the few of you who can actually reason and point out the faults in the game, the rest would try to understand what they are talking about when they say that "the game needs a new engine because this is a last gen engine".

My belief is that this is a next-gen engine, whose parts were made to resemble the last gen parts which actually worked at the time.

Best regards,

Paulo Tavares

 

[YoungGun_UK]

Re: PES 2009 News Discussion & Rumours (STRICTLY NO FIFA DEMO IMPRESSIONS)

pjft, Theres so much PES needs to add that is not supported with the current engine. PES is a game on rails still which isnt acceptable, Im not saying FIFA is 360 movement but its a lot more free than PES, This is due to the game engine that EA have invested in, Manual 360 movement won't work IMO its too much control, EA have nailed it for me with around 32 directions to Pass,Shoot,Cross the ball. This is something which cant be calculated in Konami's engine because when it was created for the PS1 there wasnt enough CPU power to support anything like that.

As CB said the AI in FIFA is a lot more advanced than PES, again its not just about adding more layers onto their current code becuase the basic fundementals of the AI are poor in comparison. Something which im pretty positive can't be added into the PES engine is a Collision system similar to FIFA's its probably one of the main "Next Gen" add ons. Tt adds so much more to the game which a PS1 build game couldnt show visually or calculate.

I think PES does need a new engine because of all these things which I think it needs cannot be added by simply adding more coding ontop, The reason PES hasnt evolved in recent years IMO is to do with the game hitting the ceiling, Theres no were they can go with it and there to afraid to make a new engine as it may lose them some of their fanbase.

PES was for me a great game in its day but technology moves on Konami are still in 2001.

 

[oFifa09o]

Re: PES 2009 News Discussion & Rumours (STRICTLY NO FIFA DEMO IMPRESSIONS)

I'm sorry but the power of the hardware has everything to do with it; what FIFA 09 on PS3/360 does can't be done on PCs, let alone PS2s. Yet PES2008 is not just the same on PS2/PS3, it's actually BETTER on the PS2. Because (in my eyes, this is my opinion and obviously that will differ), the PS2 (and PSP) suits the style of gameplay the best. Fast-paced (I'm trying not to say "arcade" because I know people hate that), and nowhere near as advanced as it should be by now. But again, the current engine is good enough for some people, and that's fair enough.

For further evidence against your point, see the FIFA thread where there's a quote from EA explaining why the game has to be totally different on PC to PS3/360. People are in uproar about it, getting a worse game on PC, but he explains it as simply as possible ( as it relates to FIFA I've spoilered it ).

Put simply; your average PC is one or two cores, the next-gen consoles have six cores, and the players apparently make a thousand decisions a second on next-gen consoles (I say apparently because they still make dumb decisions and EA have been known to exaggerate in the past). It's simply not possible to port that gameplay engine across to anything else, apart from maybe an extremely high-end PC. And before someone says "what about games like Crysis"; look past the graphics. 21 players (that's the human-controlled player excluded) making a thousand decisions a second is a lot more work than you walking around and shooting, with a couple of enemies dotted about.

(And by the way, to anyone who thinks that criticism of PES like this is just "moaning" and the forum can do without it, including Paulo and you Sindii, I apolgise; but you have to bear in mind that if I - or "we" if you include the others who complain about the game - really hated PES, we simply wouldn't talk about it. We would disappear off the forum. I loved PES/WE, it gave me hours upon hours of happiness. We wouldn't complain if we didn't love PES/WE so much a short time ago, and if we didn't want to see it become a game that we love to play once again.)

Try the ulocked ULTRA HIGH post processing and physics settings on Crysis and see which is more demanding...it or FIFA09....Also do u seriously believe this EA PR Bullshit? This CPU wont just walk over FIFA09 code? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115052 cmon...It can run Total War at 30k men calculating: morale, fatigue, attack, defence, block rate, height level, general's proximity on PER MAN BASIS!!!!!

 

[Putuco Malo]

Re: PES 2009 News Discussion & Rumours (STRICTLY NO FIFA DEMO IMPRESSIONS)

There is no way PS3 or X360 is more powerful than a current PC. A bare Quad Core with 2/4Gb Ram can overtake any of those consoles... and lets dont forget the video card...

 

[LOGANiSE]

Re: PES 2009 News Discussion & Rumours (STRICTLY NO FIFA DEMO IMPRESSIONS)

new ?

YouTube - Pes 2009 new!!!!

The fact that some people can't tell the difference between 2008 & 2009 says it all really.

 

[Badgerman]

Re: PES 2009 News Discussion & Rumours (STRICTLY NO FIFA DEMO IMPRESSIONS)

People get duped by patches every year.

Just check Youtube for the millions of fake videos out there.

 

[elrussi]

Re: PES 2009 News Discussion & Rumours (STRICTLY NO FIFA DEMO IMPRESSIONS)

where is the video that cannigia promess today with manchester against real madrid??

 

[elrussi]

Re: PES 2009 News Discussion & Rumours (STRICTLY NO FIFA DEMO IMPRESSIONS)

thomasgoal, here you are.......what can you tell us, about you news?? do you know something about cannigia's vid?? i red that you confirm some things that cannigia told us.

 

[reddevils]

Re: PES 2009 News Discussion & Rumours (STRICTLY NO FIFA DEMO IMPRESSIONS)

Liga clubs under licence

Athletic Club Bilbao
FC Barcelona
Deportivo La Coruna
Espanyol
Real Madrid
Mallorca
Villarreal

WTF!!!! No sevilla, No Valencia!!!!

 

[Lami]

Re: PES 2009 News Discussion & Rumours (STRICTLY NO FIFA DEMO IMPRESSIONS)

big differences between PES2009 and this sh** video patched, but i don't see differences between FIFA08 and 09.

ahahahahahhaha..... I don't know that you work in Konami...

wow saying something like that just makes me not trust anything you say about PES09 because it seems like you are a huge PES fanboy who is wearing PES glasses all the time :|

sure you can not like FIFA 09 but to say its not much different to FIFA 08 is crazy

Please guys, not again.

 

[gerd]

Re: PES 2009 News Discussion & Rumours (STRICTLY NO FIFA DEMO IMPRESSIONS)

Dutch Official Playstation Magazine's Hands on of PES2009:

They played 30 matches with the unfinished version of the game.

Only French, Dutch and Italian competirions are licensed.
More clubs of the other competiotions (for example Zenith and Standard de Liège)

Gameplay:
Compared to PES2008 this is a step back to simulation.
PES2008 was all about offensive play and quick wingers. In PES2009 Konami stimulates players to use the entire team. Defensive passing and slower play are necessary to outmanouever the AI's defense until one of the forwards is in a good position before goal.
There is more bias towards fairplay just like in PES5 but according to the magazine referees are less strict than in PES5.
They are very enthusiasitic about the Be a Legend Mode.
You create your owne player (you can scan a photograph with the Playstation Eye or you can create one with the editor).
Then you determine wether you are right footed or left footed, what are your favourite positions and how you celebrate goals and play your first match as a 17 year old with a nonexistent team. After that match you are discovered by a team that is in PES2009 and will be recruited by them (in this instance by Espanyol Barcelona which isn't licensed).
When you are with your new club you have to prove yourself in matches betwwen the reserves and the first team. If youare doing well, you will play in the first team, but since you can get injured or banned you won't alwyas play. If you are on the bech you can watch the match entirly (which is rather dull according to the magazine) or you can fast forward (4 times the normal speed) until you can come on the pitch or until the match is over.
If you play regularly, your stats will increase and you can be transferred to bigger clubs.
You earn a salary, can win silverware and be asked to play for the national team. Theysay that this mode can really become an addiction and that you can use your created player online.
Their conclusion: PES 2009 is a big step forward but nonetheless more of an evolution than a revolution.

Before all hell breaks loose, these are not my observations, i have translated the hands on of the magazine and have tried to summarize all thepositive and negative points. I don't think that certain things were lost in translation since my English is very good.

 

[sindii]

Re: PES 2009 News Discussion & Rumours (STRICTLY NO FIFA DEMO IMPRESSIONS)

@Chris Bauer
Coming from a programming background i know ea is full of bs when they hype their products. The newer consoles let you do ai faster, render better graphics, do faster physics etc but still, mechanics can be done on older consoles with less going on ie only a few players. The next gen let you do everything together.

Also each player making a 1000 decisions(i know you said it may be exaggarated) a second is just too extreme, why would they need to do that, it's not a chest game where the cpu needs to think hundreds of moves forwards.

I love my pes6 on pc, i play it all the time, you guys can moan about pes2009 if it's suck, if i feel the same way i'll just stick with pes6 for another year :-)

Did anyone see the nba videos ea released regarding foot placement etc syaing it could only be done on nextgen, that too was bs, you could even do it on ps1 only with maybe like 1 or 2 players in the game. Next gen LETS you do logic and mechanics faster, it's the graphics they really excel in.

ps The new pc's total dominate consoles, if you were to fully utilise the pwer of a pc, next gen consoles wouldn't come close. The fact that devs have to code for hundreds/thousands of configs takes away the full power.

 

[Re-arranged]

Re: PES 2009 News Discussion & Rumours (STRICTLY NO FIFA DEMO IMPRESSIONS)

thanks for that review translation, gerd.

 

[sando]

Re: PES 2009 News Discussion & Rumours (STRICTLY NO FIFA DEMO IMPRESSIONS)

Gerd, what do they say about graphics and lag (Off-line) in the PS3 version (and in comparison with the 360)

 

[Professor Nutmeg]

Re: PES 2009 News Discussion & Rumours (STRICTLY NO FIFA DEMO IMPRESSIONS)

Liga clubs under licence

Athletic Club Bilbao
FC Barcelona
Deportivo La Coruna
Espanyol
Real Madrid
Mallorca
Villarreal

Dutch Official Playstation Magazine's Hands on of PES2009:

They played 30 matches with the unfinished version of the game.

After that match you are discovered by a team that is in PES2009 and will be recruited by them (in this instance by Espanyol Barcelona which isn't licensed).

Confusing

 

[evacuate]

Re: PES 2009 News Discussion & Rumours (STRICTLY NO FIFA DEMO IMPRESSIONS)

The Become a Legend sounds great on paper. BUT since I have played PES many times as fixed player I know how bad the AI is and this mode will fail bad to me personally. I guess I could have stand it if I'd never played BAP in FIFA (Awesome AI in BAP/CYC mode) but unless Konami rewrote their entire AI it'll be shit (to me).

 

[gerd]

Re: PES 2009 News Discussion & Rumours (STRICTLY NO FIFA DEMO IMPRESSIONS)

Well Prof, maybe they played and earlier build wer Espanyol wasn't licensed yet...in the hands on they talked about it being possible that Konami would acquire some licenses...that could explain it.

They did not play online, they were very specifical about that in the end verdict.

No talk about the graphics...IMHo that is not so important. For example i prefer PES2008 players models to those from F-game, but that isalmost irrelevant since the F-game's gameplay is better and since i use wide camera...

Edit: i misunderstood your question sando, i thought you asked about online lag...they did not speak about off-line lag...

 

[sando]

Re: PES 2009 News Discussion & Rumours (STRICTLY NO FIFA DEMO IMPRESSIONS)

Edit: i misunderstood your question sando, i thought you asked about online lag...they did not speak about off-line lag...

Gerd, ik bedoel simpel gezegd of er is gesproken of het spel schokt of niet en of de graphics beetje scherp zijn (pes2008 schokte zowel op de ps3 als de 360 offline, maar was op de ps3 gewoon grafisch slechter dan de ps3).

So maybe you can answer it again??! (lol)

 

[Professor Nutmeg]

Re: PES 2009 News Discussion & Rumours (STRICTLY NO FIFA DEMO IMPRESSIONS)

Well Prof, maybe they played and earlier build wer Espanyol wasn't licensed yet...in the hands on they talked about it being possible that Konami would acquire some licenses...that could explain it.

That's what i was thinking.

It's funny. Konami lose the Spanish license (over half the division) and they only add a CL license (the addition that would supposedly "drop a bomb"), not the full official game. The CL is a half effort, from what i can understand.

 

[Cammey]

Re: PES 2009 News Discussion & Rumours (STRICTLY NO FIFA DEMO IMPRESSIONS)

I reckon Seabass got lucky with the original PS1 engine and is scared of trying to create another one in case it fails.

 

[gerd]

Re: PES 2009 News Discussion & Rumours (STRICTLY NO FIFA DEMO IMPRESSIONS)

Sando: the answer is that they did not mention any lag at all (but does this means that there is no lag ???). They simply didn't talk about lag and graphics. This magazine does not only publish reviews and previews (what i translated was not a review), but they also do what they call hands on: playing sessions with versions that are not the final build. Maybe they played it in Leipzig, maybe later...who knows.

Prof: Konami fuck up with lots of rather simple things that would make the game more acceptable. The licensing thing is due to circumstances (EA being more assertive and having the rights for a longer period), but they continu to do things that are weird (like the animal heads, who cares about that, the fact that you cannot play in the ML with the other clubs C, and all kinds of other downright annoying things).
They simply do not listen to their customers...

 

[BillyBoy]

Re: PES 2009 News Discussion & Rumours (STRICTLY NO FIFA DEMO IMPRESSIONS)

I just hope Legends online is against human opponents not computer/AI opponents. We are still waiting for the full online details with less than a month to go to release.