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Manchester United Thread

Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

DagsJT said:
It seems crazy that Hernandez isn't starting considering he's proven he can score goals and handle himself more than enough, especially when Rooney hasn't offered much. Maybe Rooney just needs a rest or something, but then wasn't he off his game during the World Cup as well?
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Sadly Rooney has been off his game for the best part of a calendar year now. Flashes aside, there's been no evidence of the that made him discussed in the same breath as Messi and Ronaldo after the round of 16 in the CL last year.

I'm not sure it can all be confidence. Something has just broken in his head. Really is sad to see. I was never his biggest fan (still pissed off when he tried to cut Ronaldo in half while at Everton ;)) but his brutally honest, hard working approach to the game was refreshing in the modern game. And some of his goals (Newcastle volley, two stunners against boro in the FA cup, chip at Portsmouth) were true beauties. No sign of any of that now. I just want him to start shooting from outside the box again. He can clearly leather a ball, but always tries cute curlers or chips.

Anyway, apologies, just makes me really sad that such a talent has effectively disappeared.
 
Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

I think he's been moved about and had his role changed so often that it's really taking effect on him, not only that but his diet and off the field problems just add to it.

He seems to lack the skill and close control in tight spaces uptop at times which was so easy for him 3-4 years back. Will be interesting to see who plays uptop in the game against Marsielle .
 
Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

He might be saturating a bit. Remember when Raul was scoring for fun when he was young? Then when he reached about 24/25, he became slower, scored far less goals and lost his quick technique - and people began to say he was vastly overrated? Especially when they made him Spain captain? Then he sort of picked it up again towards the end of his 20s.
 
Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

But Raul was extremely consistent for 6-7 years prior to that, Wayne's only really had 2 or 3 good seasons but I can see your point.
 
Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

beachryan said:
Aw, schnukums. Isn't that cute?

Probably was a penalty. Almost identical to the one Ronaldo didn't get that knocked us out of the FA cup two years ago. But that's not swings and roundabouts, that's corruption baby.

Were you even alive the last time your lot won the league?
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Mate i could argue you to death on football matters, in fact i probably know more about your team than you do yourself having lived in Liverpool and the North West since birth.

Also to answer your question, yes i was around, and yes i actually attended games in championship winning seasons, but then football was football and not the business it is today.

I came on here last night because im sick and tired of watching the game fall in to ruin. And whether you like it or not, your manager holds far too much sway in this country, and it's not good for the game. I mean your mighty Manchester United, you should be beating teams like Blackpool and Stoke and West Brom, but why should you get a helping hand when you arnt performing? It renders competition useless. Last night Peter Walton came out in a completely different frame of mind. He actually reffed the first half pretty well, but was terribly biased the second.

Man Utd dont NEED that kind of influence.

And thats what it is. You've got a good team and an excellent manager, i dont like him but he is an excellent manager BUT he's manipulated things to best suit Manchester United at a win at all costs mentality. Even last night his comments about Charlie Adam and his 'value' were pathetic - just another example of his graceless demeanour and to attempt to push up a price on a player we are interested in. He'll go down in history as a great, but not one of THE greats, he has no humilty or grace.
 
Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

Dryzer said:
Mate i could argue you to death on football matters, in fact i probably know more about your team than you do yourself having lived in Liverpool and the North West since birth.

Also to answer your question, yes i was around, and yes i actually attended games in championship winning seasons, but then football was football and not the business it is today.

I came on here last night because im sick and tired of watching the game fall in to ruin. And whether you like it or not, your manager holds far too much sway in this country, and it's not good for the game. I mean your mighty Manchester United, you should be beating teams like Blackpool and Stoke and West Brom, but why should you get a helping hand when you arnt performing? It renders competition useless. Last night Peter Walton came out in a completely different frame of mind. He actually reffed the first half pretty well, but was terribly biased the second.

Man Utd dont NEED that kind of influence.

And thats what it is. You've got a good team and an excellent manager, i dont like him but he is an excellent manager BUT he's manipulated things to best suit Manchester United at a win at all costs mentality. Even last night his comments about Charlie Adam and his 'value' were pathetic - just another example of his graceless demeanour and to attempt to push up a price on a player we are interested in. He'll go down in history as a great, but not one of THE greats, he has no humilty or grace.
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Listen, I apologise for the knee-jerk reaction to your first post – I was pretty hyped up from what was a wonderfully entertaining match and a bit annoyed that anyone would go out of their way to try and ruin a 3 goal comeback for another team’s fans.

I see your point on SAF and if I’m honest, he embarrasses me at times. The German thing last year was a particular low point. I don’t have a massive problem with him yelling and screaming during a match, but when he says things afterwards that are uncalled for, you’re right, it’s unbecoming of someone so experienced.

But, in much the same way that my boss doesn’t pay me to make friends with clients, he pays me to make deals with them, it’s not Fergie’s job to be respected for manner. It’s his job to bring trophies to our cabinet. Sports today isn’t about gentlemanly conduct and mutual respect – especially not football. If anything, I’d argue football is the most duplicitous, mean-spirited sport in the world. In what other professional leagues is cheating not only common, but seemingly encouraged? And so of course, to succeed at the very highest level, you have people who are willing to do those things.

All of that aside, this newly restoked view of the world that United are only succeeding because of referees is utter, utter horsesh*t. It’s easy, especially for fans of other teams that don’t watch matches – they just read the reports and watch highlights – to fall into this mindset. Because you know what? The media sell more papers writing negativity about United than any other sports team in the world. And that’s where people get their information. And so, an incorrectly non-award of a penalty against Gary Neville is not only highlighted, it becomes a frame of reference for every subsequent discussion about United for months to come. “Oh, Zigic climbed on a defender and handled it to enable Birmingham to equalise? Yeah, but what about Gary Neville, swings and roundabouts!”

So of course, in your view (and, again 90% of football fans in the country) had Peter Walton correctly given a penalty against Rafael, United would have lost. And there is your headline, for 90% of readers. ‘United win game because of dodgy penalty decision – AGAIN!’ There’s no mention of the 3 goal comeback. Of United having 13 attempts to Blackpools 1 in the second half. Of Adams breaking Evra’s face with a slyly disguised elbow. Of the 10 minutes of added time given to Blackpool to equalise. No, because it’s easier for the lazy public to just assume that United don’t win because of their own merit, they win because of officials.

And I will not subscribe to this new, ‘moderate’ view that ‘come on admit it, you guys get the rub of the green most of the time’. It’s not true. In any given match, we’ll get a decision that is wrong, and benefits us. This decision will be featured in photographs, videos and stories all over the world. In the next match, when we have a goal ruled out incorrectly for offside, or a clear penalty not given – it won’t even make the long written report.

And I know that this is the price to pay for success, but it’s still frustrating as hell. Personally I don’t think we’re going to win the league this year because our team isn’t good enough, and because we’ve spent less net than almost every club in the top flight over the past 4 seasons. But if we do it’s going to be down sheer determination, not referees. They’re not corrupt. They’re often wrong, but not in any teams favour.
 
Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

Have to agree, the comments by Ferguson about Adam's price pissed me off. Got no reason to comment.
 
Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

Christ, football fans and their sense of humour these days! I thought his comment about Adam was tongue-in-cheek more than anything else, unless you seriously believe he's worth £10m on his corners alone.
 
Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

Nope, it's Ferguson attempting to drive Adam's price up with his "mind games" again. He'll know full well that Blackpool will be using that comment as further leverage to try and get more money for Adam.
 
Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

beachryan said:
Listen, I apologise for the knee-jerk reaction to your first post – I was pretty hyped up from what was a wonderfully entertaining match and a bit annoyed that anyone would go out of their way to try and ruin a 3 goal comeback for another team’s fans.

I see your point on SAF and if I’m honest, he embarrasses me at times. The German thing last year was a particular low point. I don’t have a massive problem with him yelling and screaming during a match, but when he says things afterwards that are uncalled for, you’re right, it’s unbecoming of someone so experienced.

But, in much the same way that my boss doesn’t pay me to make friends with clients, he pays me to make deals with them, it’s not Fergie’s job to be respected for manner. It’s his job to bring trophies to our cabinet. Sports today isn’t about gentlemanly conduct and mutual respect – especially not football. If anything, I’d argue football is the most duplicitous, mean-spirited sport in the world. In what other professional leagues is cheating not only common, but seemingly encouraged? And so of course, to succeed at the very highest level, you have people who are willing to do those things.

All of that aside, this newly restoked view of the world that United are only succeeding because of referees is utter, utter horsesh*t. It’s easy, especially for fans of other teams that don’t watch matches – they just read the reports and watch highlights – to fall into this mindset. Because you know what? The media sell more papers writing negativity about United than any other sports team in the world. And that’s where people get their information. And so, an incorrectly non-award of a penalty against Gary Neville is not only highlighted, it becomes a frame of reference for every subsequent discussion about United for months to come. “Oh, Zigic climbed on a defender and handled it to enable Birmingham to equalise? Yeah, but what about Gary Neville, swings and roundabouts!”

So of course, in your view (and, again 90% of football fans in the country) had Peter Walton correctly given a penalty against Rafael, United would have lost. And there is your headline, for 90% of readers. ‘United win game because of dodgy penalty decision – AGAIN!’ There’s no mention of the 3 goal comeback. Of United having 13 attempts to Blackpools 1 in the second half. Of Adams breaking Evra’s face with a slyly disguised elbow. Of the 10 minutes of added time given to Blackpool to equalise. No, because it’s easier for the lazy public to just assume that United don’t win because of their own merit, they win because of officials.

And I will not subscribe to this new, ‘moderate’ view that ‘come on admit it, you guys get the rub of the green most of the time’. It’s not true. In any given match, we’ll get a decision that is wrong, and benefits us. This decision will be featured in photographs, videos and stories all over the world. In the next match, when we have a goal ruled out incorrectly for offside, or a clear penalty not given – it won’t even make the long written report.

And I know that this is the price to pay for success, but it’s still frustrating as hell. Personally I don’t think we’re going to win the league this year because our team isn’t good enough, and because we’ve spent less net than almost every club in the top flight over the past 4 seasons. But if we do it’s going to be down sheer determination, not referees. They’re not corrupt. They’re often wrong, but not in any teams favour.
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Beachryan,

No one is saying United dont get sinned against because they do - case in point being Birmingham, i watched that game and yeah you were robbed at the end. The point is you get preferential treatment and the KEY decisions more than most. KEY is the main word here, those game swinging major decisions that tip the balance. Yes you get sinned against - but lets be honest its very few and far between. How many decisions have turned a game against United this season for example? I can only think of Birmingham to be fair - but theres loads i could list in favour of United.

Its all about balance. Your manager is a knight of this country, its given him more power than he should. Authorities on the whole are lenient with him, referees over respect him. Managers over respect him. Pulis for example - pulling his players from loan from Preston because Ferguson did after his son was fired, a real old boys act but totally pathetic. its not healthy.
 
Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

Dryzer said:
Beachryan,

No one is saying United dont get sinned against because they do - case in point being Birmingham, i watched that game and yeah you were robbed at the end. The point is you get preferential treatment and the KEY decisions more than most. KEY is the main word here, those game swinging major decisions that tip the balance. Yes you get sinned against - but lets be honest its very few and far between. How many decisions have turned a game against United this season for example? I can only think of Birmingham to be fair - but theres loads i could list in favour of United.

Its all about balance. Your manager is a knight of this country, its given him more power than he should. Authorities on the whole are lenient with him, referees over respect him. Managers over respect him. Pulis for example - pulling his players from loan from Preston because Ferguson did after his son was fired, a real old boys act but totally pathetic. its not healthy.
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Think for a second. United haven't lost this season. Therefore, how many decisions can have been made that cost them the match? This is the point I'm trying to get at.

We've been denied literally dozens of penalties over the past few seasons that were terrible decisions by the ref - but we go on to win 85% of matches. So again, no media attention, no replays, no analysis, no press.

Against West Brom, in the infamous 'Gary Neville commits worst foul in history and escapes because SAF pays ref' match, in about the 75th minute Thomas blocks a cross by sticking out an arm, deliberately and successfully knocking the ball away. Directly in front of the linesman. No call. No press, because United went on to win.

In the United v Liverpool FA Cup match - we've had literally hours of footage of Berbatov maybe being clipped and maybe going to ground too easily. No a minute on the two much stronger penalty shouts in the second half.

You say we get the 'KEY' decisions, but one of the reasons that United are so successful is because there is no one 'KEY' decision that determines a match. If we get lucky, great, we play on and try to win. If get unlucky, great, we go on and try to win. And because the press never talk about the penalty that wasn't given to the winning team, it looks biased. It's not.

Wait a couple years until Liverpool start winning week in/ week out, and see how often the press talk about decisions going in their favour. Won't get a sentence.
 
Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

This section of the forum is becoming far too RAWK like. Extremely sensitive Liverpool fans and Fergie is the evil emperor

tin-foil-hat.jpg
 
Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

DagsJT said:
Nope, it's Ferguson attempting to drive Adam's price up with his "mind games" again. He'll know full well that Blackpool will be using that comment as further leverage to try and get more money for Adam.
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:LOL: You don't think that's just a little bit farfetched, Dags?
 
Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

Nope. Ferguson can't help discuss or comment about Liverpool whenever he gets a chance (sounds familiar).
 
Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

He's barely mentioned Liverpool this season apart from when we've played you.

I still think the Adam comment was made in jest, sure he may very well end up driving up the price because of it, but do you really think he cares how much you or anyone else pays for another player?
 
Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

beachryan said:
Think for a second. United haven't lost this season. Therefore, how many decisions can have been made that cost them the match? This is the point I'm trying to get at.

We've been denied literally dozens of penalties over the past few seasons that were terrible decisions by the ref - but we go on to win 85% of matches. So again, no media attention, no replays, no analysis, no press.

Against West Brom, in the infamous 'Gary Neville commits worst foul in history and escapes because SAF pays ref' match, in about the 75th minute Thomas blocks a cross by sticking out an arm, deliberately and successfully knocking the ball away. Directly in front of the linesman. No call. No press, because United went on to win.

In the United v Liverpool FA Cup match - we've had literally hours of footage of Berbatov maybe being clipped and maybe going to ground too easily. No a minute on the two much stronger penalty shouts in the second half.

You say we get the 'KEY' decisions, but one of the reasons that United are so successful is because there is no one 'KEY' decision that determines a match. If we get lucky, great, we play on and try to win. If get unlucky, great, we go on and try to win. And because the press never talk about the penalty that wasn't given to the winning team, it looks biased. It's not.

Wait a couple years until Liverpool start winning week in/ week out, and see how often the press talk about decisions going in their favour. Won't get a sentence.
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So... Gary Neville not being dismissed at Stoke and West Brom not key? Thats 10 men for over half of the game and in West Broms case a pen.

Vidic after scoring at Villa doesnt get booked when celebrating with the crowd which would have seen him off, United down to ten men and a suspension. The villa player that scored and celebrated with the crowd got booked.

The penalty at Blackpool. More than likely be 3-0 and very hard to come back from, obviously harder than 2 goals, decision goes your way.

The FA cup tie, Rafael goes in two footed on Merieles, no booking or red, Gerrard does the same, red card and 10 men at 1-0 down to a poor penalty decision. If two feet off the ground tackle is automatic red then whether you dive in or do it standing its red.

And those are just recently.

All those are match swinging events. No one is saying you may not have still won those games or collected the points you did, but it would have been TOUGHER to do so. And lets be honest compared to previous years you havent been brilliant this season.

Anyway i've said my piece. i dont expect supporters of United to agree like, but some balance would be good.
 
Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

There's a simple answer to all of it really:

We're Man United, and we'll do what we want!
 
Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

Dryzer said:
So... Gary Neville not being dismissed at Stoke and West Brom not key? Thats 10 men for over half of the game and in West Broms case a pen.

Vidic after scoring at Villa doesnt get booked when celebrating with the crowd which would have seen him off, United down to ten men and a suspension. The villa player that scored and celebrated with the crowd got booked.

The penalty at Blackpool. More than likely be 3-0 and very hard to come back from, obviously harder than 2 goals, decision goes your way.

The FA cup tie, Rafael goes in two footed on Merieles, no booking or red, Gerrard does the same, red card and 10 men at 1-0 down to a poor penalty decision. If two feet off the ground tackle is automatic red then whether you dive in or do it standing its red.

And those are just recently.

All those are match swinging events. No one is saying you may not have still won those games or collected the points you did, but it would have been TOUGHER to do so. And lets be honest compared to previous years you havent been brilliant this season.

Anyway i've said my piece. i dont expect supporters of United to agree like, but some balance would be good.
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So just to be clear, you think the Rafael challenge on Meireles is a red card, and that Vidic should have been sent off for celebrating - a situation that has happened, by my count, once in the past 2 years of premiership football? Would you really comfortably state that every time a Liverpool player has celebrated with fans they've been booked? How about Van Persie when he scored his wonder shin volley, he actually left the field, climbed up some weird steps thing about 15 feet into the fans? Maybe Arsenal buy the league too!

Would you like a longer straw to cling on to?

The Gary Neville Stoke incident is exactly what I'm talking about. Media galore about not getting his second yellow for what was very much a yellow card offence. Not a whisper that he didn't actually touch the player or commit a foul for his FIRST yellow. Thanks for the example, I'd forgotten that one. So ref wrongly award yellow - no mention. Ref wrongly doesn't award second yellow (maybe balancing out his wrong decision? hrm?) media scrutiny!

The Neville incident and the Blackpool penalty were both wrong decisions. I'll give you those. But having watched all of these matches for the full 90, I could just as easily give you twice as many 'match changing' decisions that didn't go our way.

What I do think is interesting is that the media has done such a good job this year of highlighting these decisions. So much so that even an opposition fan can reel them off at will. So go media.

No United haven't been great this year. Does that mean the league is corrupt?

And further, think about it - why on Earth would the FA want United to win? They're the most despised team in the country, the most predictably successful, the least interesting and now don't even play good football. They're also piss poor, so couldn't use bribes. If anything the FA want Chelsea (London based) or City (new, exciting, super rich) or Arsenal (London based, players of the most beautiful football in history ever) to win the league. The FA continually punish United with harsher sentences than other teams (recent Rafael decision aside).

Now for a more interesting debate, why do Liverpool ex-players go into punditry, while ex-United players go into coaching?
 
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Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

DagsJT said:
Nope. Ferguson can't help discuss or comment about Liverpool whenever he gets a chance (sounds familiar).
Click to expand...
That's funny because he's commented about Arsenal, Chelsea, Barcelona and Real Madrid amongst others far more often than Liverpool the past few seasons. Unless you've been keeping track of his press conferences, interviews and other media commitments better than I have.
 
Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

I just think Mutd are mentally stronger then all the other teams imo dont think there`s anything sinister :LOL: Wenger doesn`t see anything but will attack fletcher game plan leaving fergie pissed for cheap shot tactics. No doubt it`s part of the game .
 
Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

Doesn't get anywhere near as many chances as O'Shea and Gibson but was alot more effective on the wing.
 
Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

I honestly believe that the team and formation we put out in the first half was the worst United team in about 18 years. Even Scholes was helpless to string two passes together.

Have to blame Fergie for whatever the hell he was trying. But I'm genuinely baffled by it. Owen as a deep-lying playmaker? Obertan as a forward? Gibson and O'Shea as footballers? A completely changed back 5?

At times I felt huge sympathy for Chicarito, who must have been looking back at the other players thinking what the hell is this mess?

This whole 'a win's a win' line is all well and good, but surely the whole world can see that team was rubbish.

And where the hell did Fabio go?
 
Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

I think in a way, Fergie is trying his best to give certain players a chance before he can safely say 'you've had enough' and then offloads them.

Gibson and Obertan surely can't be here very long after more than a few performances like they pulled out last night.

Interesting it wasn't just the fact that Giggs came on, but the fact we switched to a more natural 4-4-2 and put Owen up with Hernandez and we looked fine again. That said I honestly thought Owen did alright in his role, he linked play fairly well when he got the ball and did his best, didn't complain. Then when he finally gets the chance he needs he puts it away.

Same with Hernandez, he barely had a sniff but when he did he scored. It's such a shame Chico is a lesbian and not a straight woman. Serious amount of love for the little Mexican at the minute.

Felt sorry for Scholes, so many times he'd be looking up and had absolutely noone to pass to, he must've been wondering what he'd done to be put in a midfield like that, though I suppose he was thinking that when we had Liam Miller and the two Djembas.
 
Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

He really does look like a girl, doesn't he? His facial features are so delicate! :LOL: Such a pretty boy hahha
What a player though! Love this guy!
 
Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

It's amazing how quickly he's adapted to the English game. For all the clichés surrounding the blood and thunder of the English game and how unaccustomed foreign, particularly those from a latin descent, players are supposed to be, he's done it on a freezing day down at Stoke, as well on cold nights at Blackpool and Southampton.

And most importantly, he overtook Guillermo Franco as the highest scoring Mexican in the Premiership's history! :P
 
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