Manchester United Thread

[bebo]

Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

I think it`s funny ..how the EPL teams are full of traffickers yet only clubs who spend are endangered

 

[RuneEdge]

Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

This is why we feel they're just threatened by the English dominance in Europe. Can you blame us? The EPL really has taken a blow this year.

 

[Jumbo_]

Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

To be fair we did nick that lad from Fiorentina, legally binding contract or not, just the same as with Macheda and probably with Pogba and the kid from Empoli.

Ethically what we have done here is wrong (we get a 16 year old potential star for free and the club who invested in developing him gets nothing) but if we did it within the laws of the game then they can't punish us.

 

[lo zio]

Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

Ethically what we have done here is wrong (we get a 16 year old potential star for free and the club who invested in developing him gets nothing) but if we did it within the laws of the game then they can't punish us.

the thing is there's a law system conflict here.
a Fifa directive establishes that youth team players should stay at their "home club" until their club can offer them a contract (of course if, once u reach 18 years old your home club doesn't offer u a contract, then u're free to go wherever u want).
this is a very reasonable rule, but being just a "directive", it isn't supported by a specific sanction (in case of infraction).... this was silly mistake by fifa.... wich costed loads of millions to many italian clubs.

but there's another law system, the EU, wich provides a "code of rules" aimed to protect the family units, wich gives the kid the right to move to another club (in another country) if his parents get a job abroad.

there's an evident conflict between theese rules... and this conflict created an opening that was used by (mostly) english clubs to get promising youngsters (who already got a football education for years by their "home clubs" at their expenses) almost for free.

man utd, chelsea, newcastle, arsenal were sued dozens of times by italian clubs (lazio, roma, atalanta, reggina, empoli, parma) in the last 5 years, but there was nothing they could do, as, obviously, EU laws prevail on fifa rules.
Lillo Foti (reggina chairman) hired guards last year to keep away "wenger's and ferguson's jackals" (his words... he was referring to arsenal and man utd scouts, who find more convenient to steal other clubs youngsters, rather then producing or searching their owns). and apparently so far it worked.
parma chairman tried to get a restraining order... but that must be a personal measure, so it couldn't be used against a general figure (as "english clubs scouts"), so he didn't get it.

and i have to say it's funny how no one here seems to know theese facts.... i guess english media found it more convenient not to write about this.... but i'm sure this situation makes page 1 in every english sport newspaper now "u see they hate us, they feel threatened by our dominance" and other bullshits like theese.

however even if there isn't a specific infraction in theese cases (because every time british clubs used the EU rules to elude fifa rules and get away with it), u could still be punished for elusion.

basic law concept:
law evasion = u break the rule and, of course, face the consequences.
law elusion = u take advantage of a law conflict to get the same result u would get by breaking the law, without officially breaking it. u're operating within the law, but with a fraudolent intent.... and law systems usually punish this with the same sanction provided for breaking the law.

anyway i don't think they'll go too heavy on u guys.... because fifa is guilty as much as u. fifa was supposed to stop u many years ago... so now they can't just pretend they just noticed theese dirty cheats.
i think they're just trying to send a message: we have quite enough of this attitude, so stop it now or consequences will follow
at least that's my opinion.

 

[YoungGun_UK]

Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

Agree and to be fair we've probably gained from it more than most, Just look at the promising players we have now due to this. I think Le Havre didn't really have a case and we had all our angles covered but with more clubs coming out I think its inevitable we face something similar to Chelsea (Which will be a January Ban will the appeal).

 

[Jumbo_]

Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

Thanks for the insight Ben.

I dont think United find it more convenient to steal foreign teenagers, especially not compared to the other clubs. Our youth team has consistenly produced British players for years that have made it in the top 2 or 3 divisions in England, if not at United.

Currently only Macheda, Petrucci, Eikrem and Zieler are kids that have come from foreign youth teams and I don't think there was any problems with the latter 2 when they signed. Recently I admit we have been bad, with the two new Italian guys and Pogba.

When Kenyon joined Chelsea and between him and Ambramovic they decided they wanted to 'break even' by 2010 this is when they began poaching foreign teenagers and to date, none have actually cracked the first team bar the odd appearance or two. The last British player Chelsea produced was John Terry I think who is now approaching his peak, which says it all. In our current team we've got Brown, Neville, Evans, Gibson, Scholes, Giggs, Fletcher, O'Shea and more who are all regulars.

Liverpool used to produce a fair amount of young British talent but since Benitez joined their reserve and under 18 teams are just full of foreign players although I think they've actually reached agreements for most if not all of them and some of their English players are doing ok.

Arsenal 'stole' Fabregas and Merida from Barca and everybody knows Wengers policy regarding youth etc.

I agree FIFA has been negligent in this and they need to make sure the rules are uniform across all the different countries so it is fair for all.

 

[lo zio]

Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

I dont think United find it more convenient to steal foreign teenagers,

don't get me wrong mate. those are not "my words" . i just mentioned what Reggina's president said last year.

also parma president got mad a few years ago. he asked man utd how much they wanted for rossi and they replied 10 millions euros.
so Ghirardi (parma chairman) said "u really expect us to pay 10 millions for the kid u stole us just a few years ago?!?"

it must have been quite frustrating indeed.

 

[RuneEdge]

Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

and i have to say it's funny how no one here seems to know theese facts.... i guess english media found it more convenient not to write about this.... but i'm sure this situation makes page 1 in every english sport newspaper now "u see they hate us, they feel threatened by our dominance" and other bullshits like theese.

I'm not saying the English are right. My point is, why is it being dealt with nowand not sooner? Why are only the English being targetted? And why only the top teams?
This could have been sorted out a long time ago but I just feel like they let it build up for a much bigger fall. And its not just this but little things over the years that have been biased against the English, eg. Its ok for Madrid to spend so much but not for Man City, People say Chelsea is bad for football but the same people have probably never said a word about Hoffenheim.

I'm not saying we're right, I just saying we're not the only ones who are wrong.

 

[Jumbo_]

Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

don't get me wrong mate. those are not "my words" . i just mentioned what Reggina's president said last year.

also parma president got mad a few years ago. he asked man utd how much they wanted for rossi and they replied 10 millions euros.
so Ghirardi (parma chairman) said "u really expect us to pay 10 millions for the kid u stole us just a few years ago?!?"

it must have been quite frustrating indeed.

Ah yeah I forgot about Giuseppe! I agree that is bad. It's like now if Barcelona pay €30m for Fabregas in the summer, they've basically loaned him to Arsenal for 5 years and paid them that huge amount to further his development by giving him first team football for a few years and allowing him to mature as a person and player.

Anyway, personally I think something needs to be done, it's not fair on smaller clubs for their talents to be taken away for nothing.

 

[lo zio]

Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

I'm not saying the English are right. My point is, why is it being dealt with nowand not sooner? Why are only the English being targetted? And why only the top teams?

u're right, fifa is reacting extremely late to this issue... but still, better late than never. and however it's not like they were trying to "build a big case against u", as u won't get a cumulative sanction for all the past "dirty transfers" (wich is what should happen if that was their hidden agenda).

why only english clubs? because, to be honest, english clubs were the only ones who applied this "strategy" (at least against italian clubs). why only the top clubs? again, because they were the ones who did it. the only "non-top club" who did it in the last few years was newcastle (with that kid, zamblera, who just came back to italy).

as for all those "little things" that in the last few years gave u the feeling the world holds a grudge against england, u got to realise that u heard about all those "little things" from a very specific angle "the british media angle".
it's all about perspectives.

for example, if i were a parma fan, i could reply "and u think fifa wants to destroy u? i'd say quite the opposite, given what u got away with in the last few years!.... give us rossi back or pay us what u should have payed those days, and then we will talk about what's fair and what's not"

i wrote it in another thread a few days ago... it's quite a weird situation... coz people in england thinks fifa has some sort of a masterplan to destroy them (why they should have such an intent, that's a mistery )... while lots of people in italy and france thinks fifa has been way too soft on england in the last few years.

Anyway, personally I think something needs to be done, it's not fair on smaller clubs for their talents to be taken away for nothing.

yep something had to be done. the worst consequence is that many little clubs who have some of the greatests academies in the world (like atalanta, roma, lazio, fiorentina, lecce and parma) are starting to reconsider their investments in youth football schools
"why should we invest millions every year to produce good football players, if then, once they start shining, someone else comes and just grabs them. we can't afford waste those money as our incomes are not comparable to english top clubs incomes" . that's what Ghirardi said in an interview 2 seasons ago.
u just can't not feel for them

 

[RuneEdge]

Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

u're right, fifa is reacting extremely late to this issue... but still, better late than never. and however it's not like they were trying to "build a big case against u", as u won't get a cumulative sanction for all the past "dirty transfers" (wich is what should happen if that was their hidden agenda).

Its not that. What I mean is that the timing of the whole issue was brought up just when the English were doing so well for themselves. And then all of a sudden, "the rug was pulled from under them" as the saying goes. From my point of view, it seems like FIFA might have originally thought "the English are crap anyway, so why bother making a case against them?" and then when we started succeeding, the damage was done. To me thats like letting a theif get away with robbing a bank and giving them a false sense of security, but then sending them to prison once he starts spending the money.

 

[Ogami]

Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

Rooney's top scorer of the WC qualification round with 9 goals at the moment. Nice to see the lad doing so well for both club and country.

 

[matherto]

Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

His link-up play today was fantastic, but he was lucky to get a goal really, he spend far too much time playing deep or wide trying to get the ball (albeit that wasn't all his fault).

 

[beachryan]

Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

@ Lo Zio - Very interesting, thanks for the inisghts!

My question, which no one has really seemed to address - I agree that it's the UK clubs taking advantage of EU labour laws to land some of these youngsters, but why isn't this a global thing? Time and time again French and Spanish club poach (almost) infants from South America and Africa but these seem not to be highlighted at all. It all seems to be between relatively large (compared to the above) European clubs being pissed about having UK clubs offer contracts at a younger age.

I think it's a fad, hopefully FIFA will just implement a rule that you can't be traded until you're 18, and that'll be that.

 

[beachryan]

Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

Oh and we're buggered for Saturday. Not a bold prediction at all, but we're definitely going to get spanked at Spurs. Couldn't come at a worse time for us. Evans is half fit, Rio isn't playing, O'Shea is out and Brown isn't fully back. Carrick and Anderson could be fresh, but will they play? Fletcher, Rooney, Berbatov, Valencia (at altitude in Boliviva!), Park (who knows where), all played very intense matches, and will barely even be back in Manchester in time to recouperate.

Plus with Lennon's form and Evra's seeming inability to control him...am scared...very scared!

(that said should be a cracker for the neutral!)

 

[Ogami]

Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

Looking forward to the Lennon/Evra clash. I'm confident he can handle him (more or less) as he's been really good lately. But then again, so has Lennon. It'll be interesting to see what happens.

I don't really see why United would get spanked. Sure it'll be tough, but we wouldn't want it to be too easy, would we?

I hope Rooney will partner Berbatov updfront. Hell, I wouldn't mind seeing Owen playing along with him while Rooney would be coming off the bench. You know, just to surprise them.

 

[Jamesy]

Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

I wouldn't be suprised to see Owen start with Rooney on Saturday. Last night Wayne dropped deep after he scored, maybe that was to have a bit of a rest and let Defoe have the runaround? Saying that, Berbatov might be motivated (don't laugh!) to put in a performance against his old club...

I can see us getting out muscled in midfield, but our attacking play should counter that. Unless we can get a goal or 2 early on, as I can't see us keeping a clean sheet, I can see it being a score draw...

 

[lo zio]

Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

Its not that. What I mean is that the timing of the whole issue was brought up just when the English were doing so well for themselves. And then all of a sudden, "the rug was pulled from under them" as the saying goes. From my point of view, it seems like FIFA might have originally thought "the English are crap anyway, so why bother making a case against them?" and then when we started succeeding, the damage was done. To me thats like letting a theif get away with robbing a bank and giving them a false sense of security, but then sending them to prison once he starts spending the money.

ok, mate, let's assume your feeling is right; that they're acting now coz they wanna disturb your progresses and interrupt or decrease your hegemony over the footballing world....
first question that comes into my mind is: why??? why would they have such an intent?... what possible benefit could fifa get from hitting the epl?
that's your main problem guys.... u don't ask why (don't wanna sound pretentious here, but i don't know how to say that without sounding pretentious). u (i don't mean "all of u" of course) just buy everything the martin samuels or the lawrensons out there try to sell you without thinking "does this make sense?" "does fifa has a reason to disturb our hegemony?" "isn't our hegemony bringing hundreds of millions to fifa?" "so whay should they feel threatened by this?" U just hear the media telling u "they hate us, they feel threatened by our success, they envy us. there's nothing wrong with us. it's the others who are just biased and jealous".... [as if we were talking about kids or silly football fans (who are actually effected by bias)... and not adults managers trying to make millions. ] and u buy it without second guessing anything.

look, i was born in italy, and, as any other italian, i have a natural, innate tendency to see conspiracies everywhere.... it's in my dna.... And everytime i get the feeling someone has an hidden agenda, the first thing i do is to look for a purpose.
if someone has a purpose, a reason to do something he shouldn't do (and that he doesn't seem to be doing) then it might be worth digging deeper on the matter, to see if there's something more behind the curtains.
if there's no reason, no possible benefit, no purpose, then there is no conspiracy. is that simple.

FIFA is a federation wich encompasses other regional (uefa, commebol, etc...) and national (FA, Federcalcio, etc..) federations; so it's a confederation (even though it looks much more like a company). this world-wide federation makes hundreds of millions every year... but it doesn't make them on its own.... the national federations are the ones who make undreds of millions for fifa... without em, fifa would be nothing.... fifa has no "core assets"; their "core activity" is to spend and invest the money the national federations allow them to do.
so each league represent a valuable asset for fifa.... and the epl is by far the most important asset of the lot. it's the richest league (at least if we don't consider the overdrafts), the most followed, the one who generates more incomes, the one who has the highests growth margins. and it's also the easiest to export in many levels (the game is based on pace and phisyque rhater than tactics, so the rhythm has no breaks and the game is much more simple to read, wich means that it's naturally more entertaining for those who don't understand much about football; it is the most multicultural league in the world, as the 70% of the players come from other countries and almost every country is somehow represented; it comes with a "ready to export package" as the commentators, the tv shows and the related media are in english, wich is the 2nd most common language in the world, so u can export it anywhere around the globe without even creating a translation/dubbing crew).

the epl is fifa's golden goose. and the english federation is the one who makes most money for fifa..... so why for god's sake would they want to destroy their most profitable asset????
for some sort of an "anti-english attitude"? for bias? don't be that naive. this is business, there's no room for bias.... u think managers at fifa give a damn about rivalries or preconceptions or those other nationalist bullishits? do u think they even care about england? or italy or spain?
the only thing they care about is to keep the organization running. wich means avoid any sort of international or domestic controversy inside the national federations, so they can keep organizing their competitions, signing richest contracts with sponsors and tv broadcasters and make millions.

every domestic issue turns into a problem for fifa and uefa, so their aim is to avoid issues, to hide em under the carpet. they certainly don't wanna "pull that rug from under u", because that would damage them aswell.... they too stand on that rug.

when the calciopoli scandal blew in italy, fifa lost dozens of millions, precisely because of serie a's loss of appeal. our tragedy became soon their tragedy..... lucky them, with an amazing timing, some other leagues were gettting better each and every year (epl most of all) so they eventually didn't suffer the consequences of italy's fall that much....

and now u think they would do something to hurt their golden goose? no way. quite the opposite actually. they'll do everything to hide epl's issues as long as they can. that's what they're doing with your financial issues, that's what they're doing with your lack of an FA associated-clubs-auditor.... and that's what they wanted to do with the "kids stealing issue".... but in this case other media, clubs and federations in europe were putting pressure on fifa to react to those dirty tricks.
italian football media and the serie a organization don't give a damn if some english clubs are running towards a potential deadly financial crack.... but they do care about them stealing italian youngsters of course....
so, after years of pressure, fifa eventually took care of the situation..... that's why they're reacting so late. not cos they wanted to build a case against u, but because they were hoping u guys would have eventualy stopped using this tricks, so they didn't have to interfere and disturb their golden goose.

and that's not trying to picture something (as english media usually does). u don't have to "believe" to what i said.... because it's logic. u just have to think about it, to ask youselves why, and u'll realise everything i wrote is pretty much undeyable.
u don't have to "trust me", just think. ask yourselves if that makes sense.... and ask yourselves if the anti england conspiracy theories make sense.

@ Lo Zio - Very interesting, thanks for the inisghts!

My question, which no one has really seemed to address - I agree that it's the UK clubs taking advantage of EU labour laws to land some of these youngsters, but why isn't this a global thing? Time and time again French and Spanish club poach (almost) infants from South America and Africa but these seem not to be highlighted at all. It all seems to be between relatively large (compared to the above) European clubs being pissed about having UK clubs offer contracts at a younger age.

I think it's a fad, hopefully FIFA will just implement a rule that you can't be traded until you're 18, and that'll be that.

you're wellcome mate
as for your question, it doesn't really goes like that. u see french clubs do a lot of scouting work in africa, and french, italian and spanish do it in south america.

but they do some real scouting activity. they look for talents in the football schools not in the club's academies... and even when they go looking for youth clubs and academies players (wich is more easy as those are talented kids who already got a football education by their hom clubs), they always reach an agreement with the home club. look at what milan did with pato and thiago silva for instance. they reached an agreeement with the club when they were 17 (even though they still didn't have a professional contract, as u can't sign a professional contract until u're 18 in brazil), they payed em serious money (pato came for about 20 millions euros) and then they waited until they were 18 to offer them a professional contract (wich is why both pato and thiago silva didn't play a single match for their first 6 months at milano. they couldn't sign a pro contract yet).
udinese did the same with sanchez, the chilean huge talent they bought a few years ago. they bought him in 2006 (when he was 16) but they payed him (they didn't grab him for free, they reached an agreement with the home club) and they left him in south america for 2 years, to let him grow at home.

however it doesn't happen very often that italian, spanish and french clubs look for academy players. academy players are already "discovered talents", who already got a football education..
so they usually do some real scouting activity, wich means go looking for talents no one noticed yet.
example: there's a great football school in palermo. actually it's not even a school as u don't even pay for it, however they teach u to play football.... and they must be pretty good at that as many promising youngsters come out of that kids school. well, there are always scouts from roma, lazio, sevilla, udinese wandering around that school, looking for some interesting kid. those kids aren't "discovered" yet. no other club already got em, no other club already gave em a football education in their own academies... no other club already invested money on them. this is scouting.


what we are talking about here instead is different from what spanish, french and italian clubs do. what we are talking about here is "scouting a la wenger". why wasting time, money and energies looking for talents in football schools. let's just head for other clubs academies. there u'll find plenty of talented 15/16/17 years old guys who already got 5\6\7 years of football education from those clubs academies. and they're all free and ready to get as they can't be bounded by a contract to those academies. we bring them in england, in our youth clubs and then 1, 2, 3 years after, we act as we raised em... as if they are products of our own academy.

as u can see, there's a big difference.

 

[beachryan]

Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

@ Lo Zio - Fair enough, that's a good explanation. I have to imagine that it depends on your definition of football 'school' - in that the players getting picked up from S. America are clearly also being trained formally, but I understand it's not as rigid an academy concept as in Europe. Probably why United have built a whole school in Brasil!

I'd like to see more players playing where they start, as I believe it's a good leveller of the field. I often feel that way with a certain Wayne Rooney, who (obviously) I'm thrilled to have at United, but do wonder if it would have been nice to see a truly world-calss player at his boyhood club. Then again, I see the argument of playing against European competition regularly for truly top players.

Either way, hopefully we'll get some consistency from FIFA following this. I don't doubt that Chelsea didn't realise they were breaking rules, or that they really were 'rules'.

 

[bebo]

Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

IMO all this FIFA stuff is political and like politic it has it`s shifts, whether it`s anti English or not the result is like women pads it will slow down the blood ,but it won`t stop it. Seeing how City, Madrid ,Chels and Pool spends while MUTD is only at 6+ mil while Arsenal had a profit of 27mil +. Clubs are hiding their youth like if it`s the holy grail and rightly so because in the Business side it`s pouching time if I can be frank. Italy should kiss Utd for the work they did w/ de rossi ffs!and Spain for Pique (grain of salt....jibes)

MUTD according to Forbes is the Richest in the World and those cxxxs won the lot! Arsenal 7th under RM and last time they won I was in my 20`s Serie A is unfortnately had their spell of FIFA attacks rightly so their nowhere around the list. My point if there was one that was valid is football brings in too much money.In a time like this, where even the government`s new tax laws are taxing foriegn players should be the talk . Where`s fifa in that? FIFA is the United Nations bunch of muppets

 

[lo zio]

Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

Italy should kiss Utd for the work they did w/ de rossi ffs!and Spain for Pique (grain of salt....jibes)

that's exactly that kind of distorted logic i was referrring to earlier...

everyone in europe knew rossi was about to become something special. the kid had an amazing growth during his 4 years in parma's academy. man utd offered him a contract, hold him for 2 years (2 years he wasted in man utd's youth team, while in parma he would have stepped up in this first squad in less than 1 season).... and then, after those 2 years, people believes man utd should be given credit for rossi's growth. that's just ridiculous.

yeah sure. he spent 2 years in man utd youth team (while he spent 4 years in parma's academy).... during those 2 years he played 5 matches with the first squad, while during his 6 months loan experience back in parma he played 19 matches with the first squad (4 times more matches in 1\4 of the time).

so which club should be given credit for rossi's development? man utd, of course
the kid left parma's academy, wich is universally considered, along with barcelona, atalanta, sporting lisboa, roma, clairefontaine and tolouse, as the best youth academy in the world, to reach man utd (wich has one hell of an academy, but, to be honest, nowhere as good as parma's one and the ones i mentioned above). he spent in manchester half of the time he spent in parma.... he played 1\4 of the matches he played for parma.....
and yet he's considered a product of man utd academy....
that's that "wenger's philosophy" i was talking about.

 

[bebo]

Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

I wanted to give Giuseppe Rossi creditenial to the New Jersey city League no worries Parma could have the best academy good for them on their development. I like what Wenger says

Look at the alternative. If you ban players from moving before the age of 18, you know what will happen? The player will be sold anyway," he said.

"To whom? To agents. At what age? At 13, 14. Where will they go? Not to top-level clubs with top-level education.

"They will go to clubs who have been bought by business people, of a very low level, and will stay there until the age of 18 waiting to be sold. The money will go out of the game.

that one way of looking at it I personally rather have my son playing among the best. The question is do club get compensate for having a 14 yrs old playing at their academy I w`d agree give clubs chicken feed for their troubles.BTW the de rossi was having a go really () innit.

 

[lo zio]

Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

if wenger really said that he's either stupid or hypocrite. we're not talking about forcing players to stay at their clubs until they're 18. we're talking about offering them professional contracts and get them without negotiating with their home clubs.

players move between clubs in italy even before they're 18. inter bought balotelli from lumezzane when he was 16. but they asked lumezzane how much they wanted for balotelli (they didn't just get him) and they offered him just a youth team contract (wich is a particular kind of contract that doesn't bound the player to the club). last season, when he reached 18, balotelli signed his first professional contract......
it's not about rules, it's about ethics. u don't need a rule to act properly. u can do it on your own (as most of the clubs around the globe do)...

oh and btw last season 2 months before balotelli's 18th birthday, mr. wenger contacted balotelli's family to "invite em" to join arsenal, offering a professional contract.... did he try to negotiate with inter? no, of course... if u can get something for free with some slick tricks, why pay for it?

it's kinda funny actually. as far as i can tell, it seems that every man utd fan in this thread realise this is not a fair and correct way to operate on the players market, while arsene wenger, who claims to be a fervent advocate of fair play, still hide himself behind theese ridiculous excuses..... at least sir alex has the decency not to talk about this situation.

on a different note, i heard man utd fans don't like people to refer to their club using the word "Manu". i assume there must be a specific reason for it..wich is it??

 

[Aboutreika18]

Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

It's strange because we did negotitate a proper deal with Flumenise for Rafael and Fabio, where they stayed at Flum for another year before joining us, we've done this with Ljajic as well.

 

[Aboutreika18]

Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

on a different note, i heard man utd fans don't like people to refer to their club using the word "Manu". i assume there must be a specific reason for it..wich is it??

The term 'Man U' has often been used freely, by the media, fans and even United players themselves.

But according to some, there is a negative connotation to 'Man U'.

United fan Wilson Sim, 26, thinks that the origins of the term is a dark one, which is why he wrote in to The New Paper.

He wrote: It seems like the 'U' means 'you', and it started from a tasteless song that rival fans sang about the Munich Disaster.

It goes like this: 'Man U, Man U went on a plane. Man U, Man U never came back again.'

There is also another line that goes: 'Man U never intended coming home'.

If one would combine the first letter of each word, you would get the word 'Munich'.

At least, Sim took The New Paper to task for using 'Man U' references in our stories all these years.

In 1958, British European Airways Flight 609 crashed during take-off, killing 23 out of 44 passengers onboard, including United players and officials.

The club had chartered the plane to fly them home from a European Cup fixture against Yugoslavian side Red Star Belgrade (the game ended 3-3).

Sim, who learnt about the origins of the term last year on an Internet forum, said: 'I have been a United fan for more than half my lifetime and I see it as a personal responsibility to correct misinformed youths, who might proclaim to be a United fan, but who know nothing of their club's history.'

It's a pity so many of our "fans" don't know about this.

 

[Jumbo_]

Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

at least sir alex has the decency not to talk about this situation.

Ben, he has said a few things on the subject earlier...

"They [other clubs] are always going to bring Manchester United into it because we are the biggest club, but they do it without any foundation, or knowledge about the situation whatsoever,"

"There are a lot of people jumping on the bandwagon, but I can assure you that Manchester United behave absolutely correctly in all their dealings with young players and their parents.

"There has never ever been a case of us paying parents. It would be crazy to contemplate that because it would be the biggest headache you could ever have. We behave impeccably – what other clubs do is obviously subject to a lot of controversy and speculation, but I'm confident about our own club."

As for the moral issue of taking a young boy from abroad, Federico Macheda being one example after moving to England from Rome at the age of 16, Ferguson said: "The EU allows players to move. That's a fact. You can't stop a boy, once he has left school, moving from his country. So, that's not an issue. We are well within the regulations."

A lot of the problems, according to Ferguson, originate from the Football Association's 90-minute rule, which limits the choice of young English players depending on where they live.

"There is a weakness in the academy system as far as Manchester United are concerned. We can't scout a boy on the south coast of England, or the north-east, or anywhere in the east of England. Yet we can bring in a boy from Brazil. It seems ludicrous. We have said from the day the system started there is no doubt there is a weakness in that respect.

"We would never have got David Beckham under the present situation and you have to ask what would a boy's best chance be of getting to the top. Would it be at Torquay, or somewhere like that, or at big clubs like Arsenal, Manchester United, Chelsea, all the big clubs, historically?"

So I guess he is just saying we've acted lawfully, but maybe not ethically, which is a shame.

 

[bebo]

Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

oh and btw last season 2 months before balotelli's 18th birthday, mr. wenger contacted balotelli's family to "invite em" to join arsenal, offering a professional contract.... did he try to negotiate with inter? no, of course... if u can get something for free with some slick tricks, why pay for it?

it's kinda funny actually. as far as i can tell, it seems that every man utd fan in this thread realise this is not a fair and correct way to operate on the players market, while arsene wenger, who claims to be a fervent advocate of fair play, still hide himself behind theese ridiculous excuses..... at least sir alex has the decency not to talk about this situation.

I tell ya what he w`d be better off at Arsenal then at Inter, and you know this How is he really being used at Inter Wenger a genuis w/ a young fire cracker like balotelli. Wenger already tip him to be the best. When I saw Macheda I was amazed how well he looked he was reading the game anticipating the ball before striking. I credit that to his new surroundings and Italy will benefit from that soon.Just out of curiosity how do you know that Wenger try to bypass Inter you are either a paparazzi or just well informed(j*k3) You never know it could`ve been a swap for Robin Van persie . I`m sure he knew Mourinho doesn`t play a youthful side Sinclair at any other top club w`d have gotten a few games, well more than Chels gave.

 

[Jamesy]

Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

It's a pity so many of our "fans" don't know about this.

I think I mentioned that in here last season (I'll find it). I try to educate people on it, but people think I'm over reacting, or use it more knowing they're winding you up...

I can understand the overseas fans not knowing about it (no offence meant, but the glory hunter types who only support whichever team is winning), as well as the youngsters who wouldn't be ready to learn the history just yet.
I've noticed that sometimes when our games are screened live our team abbreviation often changes between 'ManU', 'MU', and 'Utd', so there must be some fans in the industry who know about it and try to correct it.

Anyway, it's nice to know that it's not just me!

 

[phrase]

Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

On a side note....Have anyone been watching Cristiano Ronaldo lately?

He seems to be a shadow of himself after moving away from Old Trafford.

I saw his first game in the La Liga...felt that he played nervously.Even his penalty didnt look too convincing.

Saw him playing for the Portugal NT against Hungary and he looked way too lax or couldnt be arsed.

Reports in Madrid are saying that Ronaldo has nothing to prove after his world record transfer but here is the thing...that is utter bullshit.

To have a world record price tag on your head means you have to prove your new club that you are worthy of that price...He has got to do it all over again with Madrid but judging buy the looks of it...he is on a decline.I may be wrong but I would definitely be keen to find out.

 

[RuneEdge]

Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

Would be a bit of a shame if he's on a decline at the age of 24. I personally think its probably cuz he's surrounded by so many world class players like Kaka for instance and maybe he's not used right by the coach.
I always said I bet he'd regret the move within 3 years, maybe it'll start sooner.