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Manchester United Thread

Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

Main Entry: iro·ny
Pronunciation: \ˈī-rə-nē also ˈī(-ə)r-nē\
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural iro·nies
Etymology: Latin ironia, from Greek eirōnia, from eirōn dissembler
Date: 1502

1 : a pretense of ignorance and of willingness to learn from another assumed in order to make the other's false conceptions conspicuous by adroit questioning —called also Socratic irony
2 a : the use of words to express something other than and especially the opposite of the literal meaning b : a usually humorous or sardonic literary style or form characterized by irony c : an ironic expression or utterance
3 a (1) : incongruity between the actual result of a sequence of events and the normal or expected result (2) : an event or result marked by such incongruity b : incongruity between a situation developed in a drama and the accompanying words or actions that is understood by the audience but not by the characters in the play —called also dramatic irony, tragic irony
4 : Not what Ogami said. Also, ten thousand spoons when all you need is a knife is not ironic either.
 
Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

Eh?

Great day today :)) Beating Liverpool and Chelsea slipping up. I thought we were the better side and deserved it, even if the Scousers think it was down to the FA/Ref/Aliens.

Park and Fletcher were supurb and gave us what we lacked in our previous 3 losses with that extra grit and determination.

Hopefully we can keep the run going and get number 19 :))
 
Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

Having Rio and Vidic back made things a lot easier too. Along with Torres having a bad day :LOL: If he had any more luck, we probably would have lost.
 
Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

makes you wonder if he didin`t kick up the spot he would of controlled the ball better :p
 
Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

:LOL: Thats exactly what I thought when he missed that chance.
 
Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

Karma's a bitch ;)

I was reading the newspaper interview with Rio on the journey up to OT, where he spoke about his back injury, and him saying how he's over it now. Admittedly it was nice to see him using his pace again yesterday.

I'm liking the new free role we're giving Jason at the moment. With his work rate we can setup as 4-5-1 knowing he'll have the savvy to support Rooney as well as help out in the middle. If Berbatov could do the same we could have Parky out on the flank instead of Nani. Not that I'm knocking Nani (for once). It's just that Evra never seems as effective when he's in front of him, though with Park he knows he can go forward and have someone cover him.

Good result though. I wonder what team we'll put out at Bolton, seeing as we have the Munich game 3 days later?
 
Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

Berba cant do Park's role IMO. Park is basically doing what we expected Anderson to do for us. Plus Park is getting the goals too. I cant imagine Berba being the box to box ball carrier or having Park's movement in the final third.
 
Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

It's a nice thought though.
Mind you, Anderson has never really played that high up the pitch for us. For Porto he did. Maybe he'll get a go in that role next season...

With that with that formation we'll only use one striker, and it doesn't seem to be a position that would suit Berbs, so I'm not sure what our long term plans for him are. I'm probably over thinking it anyway...!
 
Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

Jamesy said:
With that with that formation we'll only use one striker, and it doesn't seem to be a position that would suit Berbs, so I'm not sure what our long term plans for him are. I'm probably over thinking it anyway...!
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Thats exactly what I've been wondering, mate. This formation means we dont get to use Berba anymore. The only other way it will work is if Berba changes his game like you said (the Park role) or he takes up one of the wide player's slot. So lets say for example we went 4-3-3 with Rooney alone up front and Valencia wide right, maybe Berba can take the wide left spot but use Evra for all the width while Berba plays his normal game but roams mostly in the left area, if you know what I mean. It probably wouldnt work cuz Evra would need an actual wide left winger as backup when defending. Thats the best I can come up with though.
 
Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

RuneEdge said:
Thats exactly what I've been wondering, mate. This formation means we dont get to use Berba anymore. The only other way it will work is if Berba changes his game like you said (the Park role) or he takes up one of the wide player's slot. So lets say for example we went 4-3-3 with Rooney alone up front and Valencia wide right, maybe Berba can take the wide left spot but use Evra for all the width while Berba plays his normal game but roams mostly in the left area, if you know what I mean. It probably wouldnt work cuz Evra would need an actual wide left winger as backup when defending. Thats the best I can come up with though.
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The other way round would also work Rune....Rooney pushed to the left side ala Ronaldinho for Milan and Berba to play our main target with Valencia/Nani coming in from the right side.
 
Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

Berbatov seems to be happy with his current role and thats good news for us. He plays in most of our games its just he's in an era where playing 1 uptop(even sides that play 2 up top still play 3 CM like Real Chelsea) is standard due to needing to play 3 to compete with the midfield of the opposition in the big games and he could be playing as good as his best but he wouldn't get in ahead of Rooney simplees.
 
Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

phrase said:
The other way round would also work Rune....Rooney pushed to the left side ala Ronaldinho for Milan and Berba to play our main target with Valencia/Nani coming in from the right side.
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Well that was the obvious but unlikely solution. I mean, think back to how stifled Rooney was last season out wide and look at how well he's doing up front this season. We need to leave Rooney where he is and try to find more ways to feed him. In the past, the team was centered around Ronaldo, now we need to do the same for Rooney if he's to continue scoring. Valencia's doing his thing on the right so I wouldnt really change that at the moment. Its that left side that we could probably still experiment with. Cuz Nani's at his best on the right where Valencia is already placed so we need someone who's a natural left sided player. Hopefully Giggs can hold that place down until someone else comes in.
 
Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

Obertan playing on the left?? Or have we tried placing Anderson on the left?? He is left footed, and suits an attacking role more than a defensive role anywayz.

Berba would be great playing in the middle ala Park role if only he did not have to run back to defend...I don't think he is able to do Box to Box like Fletcher or Park.
 
Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

Obertan plays on the right as far as I know. Anderson on the left could work, atleast it looks like it would in my head. The only question mark is his crossing ability cuz I have no clue how good/bad it is. But even if it was half decent, his dribbling ability would make it a great idea to play him there IMO.
 
Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

Anderson was woeful on the left side of a front 3. Which was very surprising, given that it is technically his 'real' position I thought. Who knows what he'll be like post injury. Maybe he can take that time off to actualy learn how to shoot... ;)
 
Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

I'm guessing thats because Anderson likes to thread passes through players through the middle. He's not really any good at shooting and not known for crossing, both of which is needed in a winger.
I guess he'll just have to settle for being a sub for Park.
 
Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

I'm sorry, I know it's been popular on here to praise Park and maybe he deserves some of the accolades - but seriously? He is a rubbish dribbler, has a poor first touch, mediocre shooting ability, no heading ability (fluke on Sunday), no crossing ability...all he has is great stamina, drive and a good footballing brain.

He works well in that 4-5-1 because we have 4 other footballers that are better at the football bit of the game. But when I see him as the furthest man forward, my head drops and I can't help but think: Really? This is the best Manchester United can put forward?

Maybe it says something about what football is becoming - physical over skillful - but I just can't compare so much of our squad to previous 'greats'. Even if we somehow win the league, it baffles me. I mean:

RB - We don't have a good one. Rafael isn't a good defender, Gary is past it.
Rest of defence - This is the only bit of the squad I feel is 'world class' and would stand up against previous great United squads. Vida, Rio and Evra are superb, and our record with all of them fit (if ever) reflects that.
CMF - Fletcher has good desire but if you view him in isolation, he's not that great. He doesn't pass that well, he doesn't shoot that well, he doesn't have a great first touch enabling him to quickly move play on and he doesn't really have that 'ability to dictate' a game. He's a hussler. I can deal with that, but he's no Keane.
Carrick - Tidy, decent at screening, occasionally gives the impression he might actually be good but generally a 6.5 or 7 out of 10 player.
Anderson - Again, the odd half of football here and there has done nothing to suggest he's actually very good.
Forwards - Valencia is good. Not great, but fine as a winger and his perma-fitness has been an unmentioned perk of the year.
Nani is okay. Bit of an enigma, but I wouldn't call him world class.
Berbatov has moments, and I think if you built a team around him he could be close to world class, but in our system he's only good.
Park - as above, just not great at football. Can you imagine him in 5 a side?!
Rooney - rather good. Probably not the best CF (Torres, Villa) but up there. Along with the back 4, our only other 'world class' ranking.
Diouf/Macheda/Owen - Unknown, unproven or past it.

Anyway, I know football isn't about having a fully world-class first XI, but I just think United are seriously over-achieving with what we've got. The only part of the pitch we're truly great in is defence, where our 'great' players have played 3 times together this season. Fergie must have some magic dust or something...
 
Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

beachryan, reading that "analysis" if i didn't have a formed oppinion about ManU, i would say that their sh*t. God you made them look awful... I'm not a Manchester fan, but they aren't definitely what you wrote..
 
Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

Neoexodus said:
beachryan, reading that "analysis" if i didn't have a formed oppinion about ManU, i would say that their sh*t. God you made them look awful... I'm not a Manchester fan, but they aren't definitely what you wrote..
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I know, that's my point! I just don't get how, if the common-held believes that I tried to scribble down are true, United are achieving what they are this season.

Can it really just be self-belief and Fergie?
 
Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

I think it's partly that and partly down to building a team that works really well together. I think we look to sign players that will fit into the group and that will work tactically, aswell as showing talent - rather than simply signing someone who's really good.

Fergie's motivation and discipline really does help though and if needed we change the mindset of player X to match the rest of the squad. The determination in the squad is undoubtedly the highest in the league and I think this plus the self-belief is really important. That said, our squad is hardly poor, most teams would kill for some of ours players.
 
Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

beachryan said:
I'm sorry, I know it's been popular on here to praise Park and maybe he deserves some of the accolades - but seriously? He is a rubbish dribbler, has a poor first touch, mediocre shooting ability, no heading ability (fluke on Sunday), no crossing ability...all he has is great stamina, drive and a good footballing brain.
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Absolute bullshit.

His close control dribbling is one of the best in the squad and his first touch is good.

He's scored headers before as well, like against Fulham away two seasons ago.

And he's supplied great crosses in the past, for Berbatov's goal against Fulham and he whipped in a great one against Barca in the semis that Nani almost got his head on.

The fact he plays a very strict and disciplined role in our side shouldn't take anything away from the technical ability he possesses.
 
Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

Aboutreika18 said:
Absolute bullshit.

His close control dribbling is one of the best in the squad and his first touch is good.

He's scored headers before as well, like against Fulham away two seasons ago.

And he's supplied great crosses in the past, for Berbatov's goal against Fulham and he whipped in a great one against Barca in the semis that Nani almost got his head on.

The fact he plays a very strict and disciplined role in our side shouldn't take anything away from the technical ability he possesses.
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You’re obviously entitled to your opinion, but seriously? I like Park, I value his role in the team but I stand by my assertion that without his energy he’d be nowhere near Manchester United’s first XI. His close control is some of the best in the team? I think, perhaps, Nani, Rooney, Berbatov, Giggs, Obertan, Valencia, Evra, Carrick, Rafael, Fabio, Anderson and perhaps even Fletcher might disagree with that. His crossing is nowhere near as good as all of our other wingers. And yes, he has scored 2 headed goals in his time with us, surely exceptions?

My point is that he is in every way inferior in an attacking football sense to: Rooney, Berbatov, Giggs, Valencia, Nani, Scholes, (not to mention Ronaldo, Tevez, Saha) and I really think those are the kind of players that I associate with being ‘United quality’ upfront.

If we had a better midfield, I’d hope that we wouldn’t need a defensive striker or whatever we’ll call him.
(but I still love the lil fella and he has the best song of anyone in the team 
 
Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

:BLINK: So basically what your saying is a team that might win the Premiership 4 times on the trot and possibly make 3 straight Champions League finals doesn't have that much quality? I can understand you saying we've lost some quality with the departure of Ronaldo and Tevez but im actually coming round to the idea were a better team for it. Valencia adds a lot defensively and going forward is very good considering he's 24 hes only going to get better.

I think your also underestimating Park, he's a very good player with the qualities Abou mentioned its just he's very disciplined and knows how to play a role when given one. The current Park role is probably something SAF has probably been plotting since May when we lost to Barcelona. Seeing how Xavi (and Iniesta) ran the show that night it seems the Milan Away game was a perfect prototype to test the waters with Park harassing Pirlo all day whilst Fletcher was moved to the left to mark Pato which could be compared to Messi's role.

Considering most consider us the 2nd favourites for the CL behind Barcelona (this was the case before the draw as well) shows we have vastly better team than you think we do.
 
Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

Football can sometimes be like a chess game where you have to make the right moves at the right time, have good judgement and be able to assess the situation quickly. Its a very underestimated trait that most unsung heros have. Park and Fletcher are two people that have it. Just cuz you have the ability, it doesnt make you a good player. People like our own Anderson and Nani are proof of that, and I'm sure we can all name many other players like that around the world. The things these players lack are what people like Park and Fletcher have.
And when you combine the two, you get players like Rooney.
 
Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

Again, I agree with what you're saying, that we are indeed doing very well, and are rated accordingly, but do you really feel like our team isn't more, dunno, workmanlike than previous seasons? There’s nothing wrong with it – in fact it’s been a great year to follow United as it’s all quit unexpected and unpredictable. But still, I can’t work out in my head what it means. Seems to be one of a couple things:

1. Our players are under-rated around the footballing world, and a midfield 3 of Park, Fletcher and Carrick is actually world class (Xavi, Iniesta, Toure; Alonso, Diarra, Kaka; Lampard, Essien, Ballack – dunno I can’t quite view ours in the same light)
2. All the ‘big’ teams are weaker than they used to be. This would appear true certainly of last year’s top 3 in England, with Pool massively weaker, and Chelsea and United losing significantly more matches too. (Arsenal have remained about the same, imo, maybe a bit stronger/gotten a few better bounces of the ball than last year)
3. We’ve changed tact to follow the Mourinho/Benitez idea – that if you can have players that work hard, are disciplined and play their positions correctly it more than compensates for a lack of actual flair and genius (as long as you have a lil sprinkling of that in the team)

I just think our results are flattering us this season. I’ve watched just about every match for the full 90, and in quite a few we’ve been really poor on the ball, and generally untidy. I know that this happens and it’s to be expected, but I do wonder if we don’t still need a decent revamp to continue at this level. I think we need a RB and a new goalkeeper at the very least, and could really use another attack-minded midfielder. Depending on your taste in Nani, we also have a serious issue at left wing forward (someday the legend that is Giggsy will have to stop. Won’t he?) And if you believe that Berbatov can’t lead our line himself, we really need another striker because Rooney isn’t going to be injury free next year.

That’s a pretty massive overhaul. I just worry that if we do win the league, then it might mean we don’t make the changes to the squad we need…
 
Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

To overhaul the squad would require quite a bit of money, and with our debt we just don't know how much we'll have. We've heard the stories that we have x amount stored in case we need it, but I wouldn't read too much into that.
Even if we do have the funds, the market is overpriced at the moment, which is why we didn't bring in a 'big name' or splash out after Ronaldo left. Admittedly we still spent £20m on Tony V & Gabby Obertan, but that wasn't too bad considering the £80m we received.
With this year being a World Cup year it's going to spiral a bit more, so unless we get deals done before it starts, I wouldn't be suprised if we only made a few tweaks in the summer with the aim to rebuild the following year.
Our 'old guard' are being offered another year on their contracts (VDS, Neville, Scholes & Giggs), so until they call it a day we won't bring in replacements - unless the current replacements (ie Ando & Nani) decide to leave...

I think the reason we've done well this year (let's face it, how many of us were expecting to be in the running for titles at the start of the season?) is because we have a good squad of players. They might seem unfashionable or not as daunting compared to other teams, or even compared to our swash buckling / total football team from 2-3 years ago, but it's working for us.
We aren't a team of great individuals (although we do have a few), where we struggle to fit everyone (and their egos) in. We have a squad of players that know their role for the team, and carry it out well. I'm not knocking other teams, that's just the way I see it.

On the Jason discussion: If you had the option to have either Park, Arshavin or Malouda, would Park be your first pick? At first thought probably not. He might not be as skillful or pacey as the other two, but he has a better all round football brain. He knows when to go forward and when to drop back in support. And for £4m he seems like a bargain lately.
You could go through all our players the same way and there wouldn't be many that I'd swap out (Essien & Torres would be the exceptions for me).

Hopefully that didn't bore everyone ;)
I have a question for you all - if we only made one signing in the summer who would you go for?
I'd love us to get
Wes Sneijder.
 
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Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

Would have loved Sneijder as part of the Ronaldo deal...but I fear that ship has sailed :(

Unless of course he comes over with Jose...
 
Re: Manchester United Supporters Thread.

Still too early for Jose right now.

EDIT
Sneijder btw would be brilliant. I've wanted him for years.
 
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