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Manchester United Thread
- Thread starter Vannizzlefashizzal
- Start date
dplane
Big Kahuna Burger
Since the Glazer takeover in 2005, United have spent 133m net (transferleague.co.uk).
Since the first City buyout (Shinawatra) they've spent about 520m net on transfers, and since Abramovich came in he's spent about 585m net. So roughly 4.5/5x so I'm off a little.
Liverpool have spent 100m net just since Henry took over in 2010!
Anyway, your point is that Fergie never spoke out against them - which is fair - and one a lot of United fans have always been critical of. I'd imagine some very large pay checks helped that decision, as sad as it is.
I'm not sure where you get 140m on three players, we had Kagawa (18m) RVP (24m) and Fellaini (28m) - that's less than half your figure?
Godotelli
Stroking Silva's Hair
Utd have a £300m squad. Shouldn't be losing these many games at home.
Eh? The quality in the Arsenal squad is very thinly spread.
Utd were missing nearly a full team of quality first team players today.
De Gea
Evra
Vidic
Rafael
Carrick
Nani
Young
Rooney
RVP
The team put out should've been good enough but confidence is low.
My fear is that moyes won't spend in the transfer window.
Blaming fergie for the perfomances from same players that won the league last year is ridiculous.
Arsenal are a couple of injuries from free fall.
I got it from a transfers site, young? Zaha? Smalling? Hernandez? Who signed young? Glazers?
jonneymendoza
Legend
- 1 January 2004
- Team
- Arsenal
Eh? No it's not . Arsenal now do rely on 1 or 2 players to save their bacon . It does matter what 11 we put out. They will still play at the same level .same can't be said with United. Take either Rooney or Rvp or both and they are fucked
You don't get a trophy for finishing first before February, why don't you come back when you actual win something
YoungGun_UK
20 TIMES!
Hopefully the club doesn't have this mentality, the idea wasn't just to simply cave and accept becoming shit just because SAF retired, sure winning the amount we did with him was never going to be realistic but the fact is we just won the league 6 months ago at an absolute canter and whilst SAF accounted for a lot of that, the drop off from walking to the league to lying in 7th is beyond bad.
While I do sympathise with Moyes with some of the injuries but the fact remains even with all the scenarios he's underachieving and finishing out of the top four would be catastrophic to the clubs future.
Since Moyes has joined he's had 6 months. This is what has happened:
- We signed one player in the summer
- That player is Fellaini
- We've gone from 7th in the league at playing the ball long to 2nd (cheers West Ham!)
- We lead the league in crosses attempted
- We have the lowest cross conversion rate in the league
- We've dropped more points at home than last season. In early December.
- We've lost more matches at home than last season. In December.
- Our possession per match has fallen
- Our shots per match has fallen
- Our chances created per match has fallen
- We've conceded almost as many goals as last season. In January.
Every single aspect of our play is worse. And we weren't great last season.
I was excited by Moyes. I thought Ferguson had gone stale, and was over-rotating and misusing the squad, while playing reasonably bland football. Turns out Fergie was a genius, and Moyes is not.
People will say you can't judge a manager in 7 months, and I don't expect us to sack Moyes til at least when he fails to finish in the Europa League spots. But look at that list above. We're worse in every way.
All United fans would be happy to be patient if we could see what he is trying to do. If we could see signs of progress, of improvement. It's the stark opposite. We're getting worse.
- We signed one player in the summer
- That player is Fellaini
- We've gone from 7th in the league at playing the ball long to 2nd (cheers West Ham!)
- We lead the league in crosses attempted
- We have the lowest cross conversion rate in the league
- We've dropped more points at home than last season. In early December.
- We've lost more matches at home than last season. In December.
- Our possession per match has fallen
- Our shots per match has fallen
- Our chances created per match has fallen
- We've conceded almost as many goals as last season. In January.
Every single aspect of our play is worse. And we weren't great last season.
I was excited by Moyes. I thought Ferguson had gone stale, and was over-rotating and misusing the squad, while playing reasonably bland football. Turns out Fergie was a genius, and Moyes is not.
People will say you can't judge a manager in 7 months, and I don't expect us to sack Moyes til at least when he fails to finish in the Europa League spots. But look at that list above. We're worse in every way.
All United fans would be happy to be patient if we could see what he is trying to do. If we could see signs of progress, of improvement. It's the stark opposite. We're getting worse.
Godotelli
Stroking Silva's Hair
If he finishes outside the top 4 he will walk or be sacked and Klopp will come in.
bebo
Looking for a Manager
Klopp won`t leave Dortmund.
YoungGun_UK
20 TIMES!
pretty much sums it up, his 'managing' of the club since July 1st has been one big clusterfuck.
cfdh_edmundo
Maverick
- 30 December 2002
All of this is true, but I would also say that Fergie in the last 2-3 seasons neglected the future of the club. He extracted 100% from older players, Vidic, Ferdinand, Giggs, Scholes, pushing them to the limit, but he never really looked at the bigger picture of how the team was going to develop over the next 2-3 seasons. It was a "make do and mend" approach and smacked of shorttermism.
His biggest signing was an injury prone striker pushing 30(admittedly an excellent one) who he knew could carry the team over the line in a lot of matches with his goals. The only quality singing he made for the long term in the last few years was the keeper De Gea, but even then I'm not convinced he would have signed him if Van Der Saar had opted to stay on, and at times he would pick Lindegaard ahead of him denying him the big run of games he needed. I could see the logic of playing Lindegaard as there was a time when he was a more "stable" option than De Gea, but from a long term view it was better to stick with the Spaniard and let him get the experience of PL games.
What you have now is a squad with huge holes in it in terms of quality players, the obvious first choice center backs (Vidic and Ferdinand) are showing signs of age, and the ones who could replace them (Smalling and Jones) have been shifted around to cover other positions (full back and def mid). The full backs aren't great Evra has been past it for years, central midfield is a mess with Carrick the only obvious quality player and even he is pushing on in terms of age. Up front is where you have genuine quality, Rooney and Van Persie are great players (and it's worth noting that Fergie nearly engineered Rooney's exit this summer) with Hernandez and Wellbeck good back up options. But overall the squad is stale in a number of positions and needs a lot of work if its to be in contention for winning the league and the CL.
I still think you should stick with Moyes for at least the reast of the season, if he hasnt made any progress with refreshing the squad by this time next year then I would consider getting rid of him. The most important thing for him to do is to bring up the squad to the level it needs to be at, results are secondary - you've needed a squad overhaul (bringing in quality young-ish players) for a few seasons and the last thing you need is to bring in a big name manager who simply corrals the current squad but doesnt refresh anything.
All of the people saying Moyes should go now, who would you replace him with?
bebo
Looking for a Manager
To a small degree.It's like the ending of communism . Where we go from here...? Although the transition should of been a Moses to Joshua but then Fergie's staff was chopped n dismembered. Maybe wasn't the best move to do, I once heard success is a formula .
gerd
Retired Footballer
Every true United fan supports the new team with the yellow-green colours, a team founded by real fans.
Fans could also protest with their feet: not going to matches, not buying Man Utd merchandise...none of this is happening.
I don't want to cause havoc, but the United fans in this thread give more and more the impression to be glory hunters.
I remember asking at the beginning of the season how much patience the fans would have with Moyes. Most of them talked about several seasons.
Now that there is doubt about a top 4 place (and for the record, imo United can still end in the top 4), suddenly people are loosing patience...
Supporting a football club is not only about success, but also about failure...most clubs know much more about failure than about success.
What would be wrong with finishing outside the top 4 ? Hell, United once even was relegated and a club like Milan also got relegated....Wolves, Leeds, Nottingham Forest all used to be massive clubs...look where they are now...these things happen in football...
gerd
Retired Footballer
Very good post, completely agree...
To be honest we don't really know exactly what went on with the backroom staff.
If the media stories are true (and we all know how accurate they can be!).
It would have been great if some/most/all of they had stayed on, but you wouldn't blame them for thinking it was a good time to move on after SAF stepped down.
Rene was asked to stay, but wanted to go.
Mick Phelan wants to make a name as manager, so it makes sense for him to go elsewhere.
Eric Steele made a hell of a lot of effort to help De Gea settle in (including learning Spanish), but it's fair to say that Tim Howard has been really good at Everton, so it makes sense that Moyes would bring his own GK coach.
Maybe a deal could have been made for those 3 to stay for 6-12 months as part of the transition?
Either way, whoever took over after SAF was always going to be doubted before they even started. Moyes needs to put his own stamp on being United's manager. If that means bringing all of his own people, then they all need time to adjust. Admittedly it's not working too well at the moment, but the flipside of that is that the players are adjusting to the different things behind the scenes too.
The grumbles recently are warranted, but most of the "Sack him now" mob are the younger fans who aren't used to not being top dog anymore.
Most people on here are realistic, and know that a big rebuild is needed. That's going to take time, no matter who is in charge, or how much money you throw at it.
If the media stories are true (and we all know how accurate they can be!).
It would have been great if some/most/all of they had stayed on, but you wouldn't blame them for thinking it was a good time to move on after SAF stepped down.
Rene was asked to stay, but wanted to go.
Mick Phelan wants to make a name as manager, so it makes sense for him to go elsewhere.
Eric Steele made a hell of a lot of effort to help De Gea settle in (including learning Spanish), but it's fair to say that Tim Howard has been really good at Everton, so it makes sense that Moyes would bring his own GK coach.
Maybe a deal could have been made for those 3 to stay for 6-12 months as part of the transition?
Either way, whoever took over after SAF was always going to be doubted before they even started. Moyes needs to put his own stamp on being United's manager. If that means bringing all of his own people, then they all need time to adjust. Admittedly it's not working too well at the moment, but the flipside of that is that the players are adjusting to the different things behind the scenes too.
The grumbles recently are warranted, but most of the "Sack him now" mob are the younger fans who aren't used to not being top dog anymore.
Most people on here are realistic, and know that a big rebuild is needed. That's going to take time, no matter who is in charge, or how much money you throw at it.
YoungGun_UK
20 TIMES!
The only reason ive turned my opinion is because the standards and obvious expectations aren't being met, I don't see why this is any different to anything else, I support Manchester United and don't really have any loyalty to David Moyes, I can only go on how he performs his job.
If you take over a role and are given objectives (in this case I'd say top 3) and you continuously fail to reach them for you to continue lowering the bar, were do you stop.
Lami even mentioned just avoiding relegation which surely isn't a standard as a club we should be aspiring too, its ironic that some people find 'honor' in just failing as if it will test some of our resolves as supporters and we might as well just let Moyes do whatever even if it extends to a decade in mid table because whats most important is we just stay loyal to a manager who isn't performing because it means were better than other clubs.
I really hope Moyes succeeds but in all honesty I doubted he was the right man from the off and unfortunately he's not disappointment in that regard, hopefully he can turn things around but the writing is on the wall IMO.
If you take over a role and are given objectives (in this case I'd say top 3) and you continuously fail to reach them for you to continue lowering the bar, were do you stop.
Lami even mentioned just avoiding relegation which surely isn't a standard as a club we should be aspiring too, its ironic that some people find 'honor' in just failing as if it will test some of our resolves as supporters and we might as well just let Moyes do whatever even if it extends to a decade in mid table because whats most important is we just stay loyal to a manager who isn't performing because it means were better than other clubs.
I really hope Moyes succeeds but in all honesty I doubted he was the right man from the off and unfortunately he's not disappointment in that regard, hopefully he can turn things around but the writing is on the wall IMO.
As I've said before, I want to have patience with Moyes, and want him to succeed. I don't want us to be another club that fires managers every five minutes. At the start of the season I was excited for a change, and thought Fergie's time was indeed over.
But we're worse everywhere. Even in defense! I had thought Moyes would come in and be a bit less gung-ho, but that we'd be nigh-on impossible to break down. Instead we concede every single match, no matter what set of defenders we field.
He'll obviously get til the end of the season, but those calling for patience - what is 'good enough' to keep a job? He's literally doing worse in every aspect of a job. I can't see a silver lining other than getting Rooney back on board, and he'll probably leave if we're not in the CL.
No one is saying Fergie didn't leave us in a bit of a mess, but is this squad really worse than Newcastle? That much worse than Everton? I dunno.
Anyway, it is kind of fun. Yesterday's loss wasn't even that shocking to me anymore. Neither was the awful football. In Bermuda we didn't get football til the mid 90's on tv, so I'd never seen United much til then. I've been extremely spoilt in both quality and trophies won, so this will be good for me and other fans in the same boat
But we're worse everywhere. Even in defense! I had thought Moyes would come in and be a bit less gung-ho, but that we'd be nigh-on impossible to break down. Instead we concede every single match, no matter what set of defenders we field.
He'll obviously get til the end of the season, but those calling for patience - what is 'good enough' to keep a job? He's literally doing worse in every aspect of a job. I can't see a silver lining other than getting Rooney back on board, and he'll probably leave if we're not in the CL.
No one is saying Fergie didn't leave us in a bit of a mess, but is this squad really worse than Newcastle? That much worse than Everton? I dunno.
Anyway, it is kind of fun. Yesterday's loss wasn't even that shocking to me anymore. Neither was the awful football. In Bermuda we didn't get football til the mid 90's on tv, so I'd never seen United much til then. I've been extremely spoilt in both quality and trophies won, so this will be good for me and other fans in the same boat
cfdh_edmundo
Maverick
- 30 December 2002
But I think his targets shouldnt be league positions and trophies, or rather they should be secondary targets. He should be judged on how he can transition out of or away from an ageing and stale squad. It's far to early to judge that, but in some ways it's encouraging. He has given Janzuzaj a real chance, which is something Fergie didn't really do in the last few years. Fergie didn't play Januzaj (and maybe he was too young) but he also didn't really give Pogba or Morrison that many chances either, it's speculation but I think Moyes might have played them more if they had been available.
It's hard to say if Moyes is really building for the future or not, it's a bit too early to judge, but certainly players like Jones and Smalling seem to be getting more minutes in their preferred positions - which (in terms of the future) is a change for the better. It's strange that he hasnt played Zaha that much, but I think there is stuff going on there behind the scenes and that's the reason behind that - but in general he's giving young players more of a chance.
The other thing is the was a pretty spectacular mess up at boardroom level. Gill left and was replaced by Woodward, who had done very well in the commercial side of things, and in the transition a number of transfers went slightly awry, Herrera was missed, there was a misguided persuit of Fabregas, the moves for Baines and Fellaini took too long and the loan move for Contreao was too last minute. It looks like there was no transition from Gill to Woodward and I think that has cost the club and has hamstrung Moyes through no fault of his own. If Man Utd were to have a seamless season they needed to get the right transfers last summer as the squad was very stale, but events conspired against this. They lost two key figures (Fergie and Gill) and replaced them with good but slightly inexperienced candidates.
It's hard to say if Moyes is really building for the future or not, it's a bit too early to judge, but certainly players like Jones and Smalling seem to be getting more minutes in their preferred positions - which (in terms of the future) is a change for the better. It's strange that he hasnt played Zaha that much, but I think there is stuff going on there behind the scenes and that's the reason behind that - but in general he's giving young players more of a chance.
The other thing is the was a pretty spectacular mess up at boardroom level. Gill left and was replaced by Woodward, who had done very well in the commercial side of things, and in the transition a number of transfers went slightly awry, Herrera was missed, there was a misguided persuit of Fabregas, the moves for Baines and Fellaini took too long and the loan move for Contreao was too last minute. It looks like there was no transition from Gill to Woodward and I think that has cost the club and has hamstrung Moyes through no fault of his own. If Man Utd were to have a seamless season they needed to get the right transfers last summer as the squad was very stale, but events conspired against this. They lost two key figures (Fergie and Gill) and replaced them with good but slightly inexperienced candidates.
YoungGun_UK
20 TIMES!
SKY running the story that we've been given funds for January to get some players in, hopefully if we can get a Coentrao and Cabaye possibly that would be two big deals to improve us short term at least.
jonneymendoza
Legend
- 1 January 2004
- Team
- Arsenal
Did I say anything about trophies. For once take your rose tinted glasses off.united are not at it's best state at the moment. U don't have a world class manager to pull things in united anymore and it's not good relying on two players to win u games
TikTikTikTikTik
*****
- 7 August 2004
- Team
- Liverpool
As I've said before, I want to have patience with Moyes, and want him to succeed. I don't want us to be another club that fires managers every five minutes. At the start of the season I was excited for a change, and thought Fergie's time was indeed over.
But we're worse everywhere. Even in defense! I had thought Moyes would come in and be a bit less gung-ho, but that we'd be nigh-on impossible to break down. Instead we concede every single match, no matter what set of defenders we field.
He'll obviously get til the end of the season, but those calling for patience - what is 'good enough' to keep a job? He's literally doing worse in every aspect of a job. I can't see a silver lining other than getting Rooney back on board, and he'll probably leave if we're not in the CL.
No one is saying Fergie didn't leave us in a bit of a mess, but is this squad really worse than Newcastle? That much worse than Everton? I dunno.
Anyway, it is kind of fun. Yesterday's loss wasn't even that shocking to me anymore. Neither was the awful football. In Bermuda we didn't get football til the mid 90's on tv, so I'd never seen United much til then. I've been extremely spoilt in both quality and trophies won, so this will be good for me and other fans in the same boat
Looking from the outside so much of this is reminiscent to Hodgson at Liverpool. From the interviews to the fans not being sure and now wanting him out to the players just not getting his management and looking unmotivated. And almost exactly in the same timeframe aswell.
Sometimes you need to call a spade a spade, a succesfull midtable manager who has shown no ambition whilst at his previous team (always looking to contain and play for a draw) just doesn't translate to clubs like Utd and Liverpool. Although I do rate Moyes higher, the relative difference in quality and team standing is quite similar.
gerd
Retired Footballer
Moyes was more than a successfull midtable manager, his results are much better than Hodgson's. And i still think Liverpool shouldn't have sacked Hodgson, the real mistakes were made afterwards under untouchable Dalglish (one of my alltime favourite players, this to show that i have nothing at all against him). Dalglish policy was catastrophic, much worse than Hodgson.
Not only didn't Ferguson never played Pogba and Januzaj, but he also didn't play Piqué and Rossi while he was with United. Can you guys imagine a team with Piqué, Pogba, Januzaj and Rossi...not bad...
And then a reaction to Younggun: are you sure that finishing the season in the top 3 was what the board set as target for Moyes ? If so, that is very unrealistic.
IMO Everton certainly has a better team than United (the have the two best side backs of the EPL, have a very experienced and talented midfielder like Pienaar, have got the best young English player and have a striker who is second to none in goals scored in 2013, Man Utd have to players who would be automatic starters for Everton: Rooney and Van Persie. One could argue about De Gea too, but Howard is a very reliable GK too).
In Belgium there is a rumour (coming from the Sun) that United are after Kevin De Bruyne. Most football pundits in Belgium consider him by far are biggest talent and last year De Bruyne was in the Bundesliga team of the season, i'm not sure but i think he might have been the only player that wasn't playing for Bayern or Dortmund... he would be ideal for United as a number 10 (by got if they buy him United becomes my second team in England, imagine that). According to Belgian sources De Bruyne would prefer to play for Wolfsburg because he wants to be guaranteed of first team football every week and he has had a bad experience in England...
Not only didn't Ferguson never played Pogba and Januzaj, but he also didn't play Piqué and Rossi while he was with United. Can you guys imagine a team with Piqué, Pogba, Januzaj and Rossi...not bad...
And then a reaction to Younggun: are you sure that finishing the season in the top 3 was what the board set as target for Moyes ? If so, that is very unrealistic.
IMO Everton certainly has a better team than United (the have the two best side backs of the EPL, have a very experienced and talented midfielder like Pienaar, have got the best young English player and have a striker who is second to none in goals scored in 2013, Man Utd have to players who would be automatic starters for Everton: Rooney and Van Persie. One could argue about De Gea too, but Howard is a very reliable GK too).
In Belgium there is a rumour (coming from the Sun) that United are after Kevin De Bruyne. Most football pundits in Belgium consider him by far are biggest talent and last year De Bruyne was in the Bundesliga team of the season, i'm not sure but i think he might have been the only player that wasn't playing for Bayern or Dortmund... he would be ideal for United as a number 10 (by got if they buy him United becomes my second team in England, imagine that). According to Belgian sources De Bruyne would prefer to play for Wolfsburg because he wants to be guaranteed of first team football every week and he has had a bad experience in England...
Chelsea has a lot of talent so it was harder for him I guess. At United I think it wouldn't be very hard to play him every game
Godotelli
Stroking Silva's Hair
Mass suicide? 
PIPA23
retired :)
- 21 June 2007
David Moyes' first 31 games as Man Utd boss all comps:
18 wins
6 draws
7 losses
Fergie first 31 games:
12 wins
10 draws
9 losses
btw Moyes actually said this: "Other clubs get penalties, we get bookings"
hilarious.
18 wins
6 draws
7 losses
Fergie first 31 games:
12 wins
10 draws
9 losses
btw Moyes actually said this: "Other clubs get penalties, we get bookings"
hilarious.
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