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Liverpool Thread

Re: Liverpool Thread

DagsJT said:
So now Masch is saying that Liverpool told lies and he didn't want to move because of his family? Why doesn't he just tell us exactly why then?!

Cracking player for us, bit of an idiot off the pitch.
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Maybe he will make a speech someday. He will have a lot of time to make one, when he is warming Barcelona's bench.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Why do you guys automatically assume that Mascherano is not telling the truth?
There is no proof that what he's saying is true, but there is also no proof that he's lying...

English fans are strange: when the player is doing well on the pitch he is a hero, when that same player leaves he becomes a villain. Mascherano played a couple of great seasons for Liverpool...just think about the good memories.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

gerd said:
Why do you guys automatically assume that Mascherano is not telling the truth?
There is no proof that what he's saying is true, but there is also no proof that he's lying...

English fans are strange: when the player is doing well on the pitch he is a hero, when that same player leaves he becomes a villain. Mascherano played a couple of great seasons for Liverpool...just think about the good memories.
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Not really,

Alonso is well liked. Players are villains when they want to leave and f@#k the club by doing it. I was fine with him leaving, as long as Barca paid the money. Refusing to play a big match because the other club is trying to use the player to get them cheaper is a shit tactic, and then moaning about the club not letting you leave on the cheap is another shit tactic.

I'm pretty sure what he is saying is the truth, however how is a 16mil offer "acceptable" when we bought him for 18mil and he himself says he owes Rafa everything for making him the player he is.

I know players are thick, and for that alone I don't like them, but he is contradicting himself in the one interview. That makes his views pretty pointless imo.

Also, where has any of us said he is lying?!
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

we only actually paid £12m for him so we've made a profit of around £7m on him (he went for over £19m in the end), the £18.6m announced when we signed him included his loan fee and wages for the duration of his contract.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Tik,

Nobody actually wrote that he lied. I deducted this from a couple of posts in this thread. Maybe that was the wrong conclusion. If so: i'm sorry.
And yes i do agree that Alonso only got respect when he left. But particularly Alonso had every right to leave, because the season before his last (great) season, if i remember well, Raffa wanted to get rid of him and replace him by Barry (Barry!!!! Come on...).

Stil i have the feeling that lots of English fans consider players vilains if they leave their clubs. Look at all the commotion among Arsenal fans for the "unfair and disrespectfull" way Barcelona treated in the Cesc saga this summer. I don't see what Barcelona did wrong. Look at all the commotion because Cesc wore a Barcelona shirt..

Another example: the way Spurs fans (and i'm a Spurs fan) consider Campbell a judas because he left for Arsenal...i don't see anything wrong about that move. Campbell is a professional player and has every right to leave a club if he wants a better job...just like al of us have every right.

Well maybe i should not write this in this thread.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

gerd said:
Tik,

Nobody actually wrote that he lied. I deducted this from a couple of posts in this thread. Maybe that was the wrong conclusion. If so: i'm sorry.
And yes i do agree that Alonso only got respect when he left. But particularly Alonso had every right to leave, because the season before his last (great) season, if i remember well, Raffa wanted to get rid of him and replace him by Barry (Barry!!!! Come on...).

Stil i have the feeling that lots of English fans consider players vilains if they leave their clubs. Look at all the commotion among Arsenal fans for the "unfair and disrespectfull" way Barcelona treated in the Cesc saga this summer. I don't see what Barcelona did wrong. Look at all the commotion because Cesc wore a Barcelona shirt..

Another example: the way Spurs fans (and i'm a Spurs fan) consider Campbell a judas because he left for Arsenal...i don't see anything wrong about that move. Campbell is a professional player and has every right to leave a club if he wants a better job...just like al of us have every right.

Well maybe i should not write this in this thread.
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The thing with Alonso is that the reason Rafa tried to sell him was that he'd been distinctly average for the previous two seasons and Barry was playing better than him and was English. So Rafa did the right thing imo and Alonso took it personally. Alonso was brilliant in his first and last seasons, the middle two were largely forgettable save for a few good moments.

And yes all professionals have a right to work wherever they want, but football isn't like most industries, there's a lot of passion and love for the clubs from the fans and for Tottenham fans their biggest rivals are Arsenal who they hate with a pure passion, so when one of their heros says regularly that he wants to stay at the club and also says "i'll never play for Arsenal" before leaving for Arsenal for free, it's bound to turn the fans against him.

In the same way Liverpool fans turned on Michael Owen for the way he left Liverpool at the last minute meaning we got totally ripped off by Madrid and since then he's gone to Man Utd, not a smart move if you want Liverpool fans to still be on your side. He's playing in Carragher's testimonial tomorrow - i wouldn't expect him to get a good reception, which in some ways is sad because he scored a lot of goals for us, but he left us in the lurch and completely fucked us over, most of the hatred for Owen has nothing to do with Man Utd, it's to do with how he left us.
 
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Re: Liverpool Thread

Stil i have the feeling that lots of English fans consider players vilains if they leave their clubs. Look at all the commotion among Arsenal fans for the "unfair and disrespectfull" way Barcelona treated in the Cesc saga this summer. I don't see what Barcelona did wrong. Look at all the commotion because Cesc wore a Barcelona shirt..
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I can't stand Barca and their players for the shit they have been pulling this summer. Transfers should be done between the clubs behind closed doors, what they have been doing and trying is to manipulate a player they want to f#$k over their own club so they can save some money. How is that ever acceptable?
They have shown a total lack of professionalism by letting their players whinge and whine about letting a player sign for them yet not wanting to pay the money. Same thing for Masch, he was keeping himself quite and letting the clubs get on with it and that was fine, however then he refuses to play against one of the clubs main rivals and f@#ks the club over in the league. Is that acceptable?

Players can't have it both ways; demanding more and more money for their contracts but expecting clubs to sell them cheaply when they want to leave.
 
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Re: Liverpool Thread

TikTikTikTikTik said:
Players can't have it both ways; demanding more and more money for their contracts but expecting clubs to sell them cheaply when they want to leave.
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I totally agree with that part, not with the part about Barcelona. I guess most continental Europeans will agree with me (and i'm on shaky ground here, because if i remember well you are part Dutch :))).
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Yep :D, and I consider myself more European then either Dutch or English.

What makes it more annoying for me with Barca is that they posture themselves as a great and honest club playing great and honest football when really they are a bunch of diving/coniving hypocrites with a chip on their shoulder. Loved Inter anti-footballing them this year ( and I can't stand Jose even more then Barca). :D
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Barca (and Spain) have almost become a parody of themselves. It's pass move dive, in equal measures. I went into the World Cup excited and rooting for Spain but watching them made me wish them a cruel and unusual exit from the tournament.

Barca are slightly better because Messi is actually pretty good about getting on with things. But good lord, Busquets makes me want to break my television. Undoubtedly talented, but what a c*nt.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

gerd said:
Why do you guys automatically assume that Mascherano is not telling the truth?
There is no proof that what he's saying is true, but there is also no proof that he's lying...

English fans are strange: when the player is doing well on the pitch he is a hero, when that same player leaves he becomes a villain. Mascherano played a couple of great seasons for Liverpool...just think about the good memories.
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It's like real life Gerd. If a person is nice to you, then you are nice back. If they are horrible, then you can dislike them because of it.

Fans pay ALOT of money to see their teams over here (especially in the premiership). They spend ALOT of money to buy the football shirts etc to support their club. This money goes towards the extortionate wages that the player recieves while playing for your club.

If a player then pulls out of your team because he wants to force a move to another club at the last minute. So then your tactics go out of the window for that crucial game and you lose...then I think fans have a right to be angry and upset with that player. Those 3 points can be the difference between playing Champions league football and not playing it at the end of the season.

What Masch did was bad and not respectful to the fans that idolised him. If you are not repectful to people, then you usually don't get the respect back.

I know we have had the conversation a million times, but the situation with Masch and Liverpool is exaclty the situation that Barca wanted to happen with Fab and Arsenal. If Fab would have forced a move and done the same thing, then it would have been very very bad for the relationship with the fans and the momories would have been tarnished. Lucky for us Fab had a bigger connection with Arsenal and respected us more.

I also don't think this reaction to a player that has done this to you, is just and English Fans way of thinking either?

People are passionate about their clubs here and if a player is acting badly towards the club after getting paid thousands upon thousands a WEEK for you, then the fans have every right to be upset.

I think sometimes Gerd you don't understand the mentality, because you support a number of teams. This dilutes your passion for each team imo, therefore you don't react the same way as a person who has supported one team for the whole of their lives and put alot of energy and money into supporting them.

That isn't meant to be a dig, it's just that I think your way of thinking is not how other 'Europeans' think about their teams. Your view is very much just attributed to you? (your view is a nice way to think, it's probably how it should be)
 
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Re: Liverpool Thread

Well Bobby i support alot of clubs, but i do have a favourite club whic i support passionately, it's a Belgian second division club: FC Brussels.

Beside them i like Lille, Spurs, Palermo and Sevilla. But i like every club who plays good football. That's why also love Arsenal and can't understand why they should be my arch enemies because i prefer Spurs.
The traditional rivals of Brussels are Anderlecht (although Anderlecht are much better for a long time now), if they play CL, i support them...
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

gerd said:
Well Bobby i support alot of clubs, but i do have a favourite club whic i support passionately, it's a Belgian second division club: FC Brussels.

Beside them i like Lille, Spurs, Palermo and Sevilla. But i like every club who plays good football. That's why also love Arsenal and can't understand why they should be my arch enemies because i prefer Spurs.
The traditional rivals of Brussels are Anderlecht (although Anderlecht are much better for a long time now), if they play CL, i support them...
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That's what I was saying, your view is very much you. You like football for football. Which is great.

But if you had the Sol Campbell situation, where your best player always said that he would never go to your rivals. Then left for FREE, so you don't even get any profit or anything from the deal? then you would still be happy? Would Inter fans be happy if their best player did that and went to AC? Would Madrid Fans be happy if their best player did that and went to Barca? (You can change any of the teams for any great rivals in any league in Europe)

The same goes for the Masch scenario aswell. I am sure if it happened to other clubs around Europe with one of their key players, then they would be very very pissed off with the player.

I am certain that most fans of any teams around the world would be just as pissed off as Spurs fans were with Sol and what Liverpool fans are now with Masch.

The way you are, would be great in a perfect world and most people should not let things like this make them so angry, but I guarantee that the majority of fans are not like that.

I beleive fans should get pissed off about things like this.

What I think is completely stupid are the hooligans and the fighting and all that stuff that people like to associate with their teams.....but again, that happens in ALOT of European countries aswell and other countries throughout the world.

Being passionate about your football team gives you many emotions, as long as your emotions don't go 'overboard' then it is fine and is all part of the joy of being a football fan imo.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Exactly Bobby.

And it's certainly not the case that any player who leaves the club suddenly becomes hated by the fans, definitely not. I mean yes there are some clubs where the fans boo their former players - Everton for instance seem to boo every former player except maybe one or two, but most dont.

Most of the time former players get a good reception when they return, at Anfield the likes of Danny Murphy, Scott Carson etc. get a great reception. There's only two former Liverpool players i can think of who would get a bad reception and they are El Hadji Diouf and Michael Owen maybe Collymore and McManaman as well for various reasons. And none of them are booed because they left the club, it's about how they left the club and their behaviour when they were here.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

The vast majority of ex-Liverpool players get applauded if they return, only really Owen who I remember being booed.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Yeah I don't think it's an English thing either. When Figo moved from Barcelona to Real, on his return their fans threw stuff at him from the stands including a pigs head!! That doesn't sound so laidback to me.

I also remember reading that Niko Kranjcar left Dinamo Zagreb for a rival team (Hadjuk??) and that their fans were really angry about it too.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

gerd said:
Well Bobby i support alot of clubs, but i do have a favourite club whic i support passionately, it's a Belgian second division club: FC Brussels.

Beside them i like Lille, Spurs, Palermo and Sevilla. But i like every club who plays good football. That's why also love Arsenal and can't understand why they should be my arch enemies because i prefer Spurs.
The traditional rivals of Brussels are Anderlecht (although Anderlecht are much better for a long time now), if they play CL, i support them...
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Well that explains it then, Gerd. You're attached to football, not emotionally attached to any club.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

I can assure you that i'm emotionally attached to Brussels.
And in the past they lost virtually all their best players to big rival Anderlecht...my all time favourite players Nielsen and Olsen (Danish coach) went to Anderlecht, i still supported them...except when they played against my team...

Wellthis becoming off-topic...sorry.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

As an example, Kuyt was linked with Inter this summer. If he'd have went, nobody would be angry at him for leaving. It's the ones that mouth off in the press and put pressure on the club to sell them, they're the ones who fans get angry with.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

No need to apoligies Gerd, it's an interesting discussion. ;)

I think it has a lot to do with the media attention, it's the hypocrisy and stupidity that's annoying.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Decent interview with Carragher here ahead of his testamonial.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/sep/04/jamie-carragher-liverpool-testimonial

He always comes across well and seems like a decent guy. I still find it hard to go with everything he says though after he went to the World Cup having said many times in great detail he wouldn't and couldn't play for England again and why. I suppose he probably didn't expect to be selected so it was easy to say at the time which explains it and I know people are entitled to change their mind but I just feel it was a bit weak by him (cant think of a better word).
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Hypocritical. He said he wouldn't play for England, he shouldn't have went and should've let a younger player go who actually had a future with England.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Yeah I put hypocritical initially and then changed it because I wasn't sure it was right but now I think about it, it is and I must have just talked myself out of it cos it's early and my brains not functioning yet. :)

The allure of playing at a World Cup must be very appealing for any player, so I can sort of understand his decision even if it is really hypocritical and undermines anything he says now. I would understand if Scholes had've gone back too, but then Scholes has never gone to the lengths Carragher did slagging off England in his book and then repeatedly saying in interviews he'd turn down a call up, but then their reasons for retiring were totally different.

Anyway, quite a good interview, I hope the game passes without too much incident or any injuries, afterall it's for charity.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Just read the interview, it's pretty good. His book was good as well, he's very down to earth and tells things how he sees it. Can't ask for much more when you're reading an interview or autobiography really.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

dont want to over react but his moves, and style of play..it is like Gerrard reincarnation...still young but it looks scary how they run, react similar....

from Carras testemonial...

Garcia back in Red shirt..how good it looks..miss him
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