Liverpool Thread

Re: Liverpool Thread

matherto said:
The problem with saying Lucas has played quite well is that the only thing he actually does is pass the ball 5 yards around him, so unless he's just shit at doing short passes, his performances shouldn't really change :P
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95% of the passes Xabi made were 5 yard passes. That's the beauty of it. And he's made loads of passes forward. One of his best qualities is the low, hard pass, that takes out 2-3 players in the game, to a player out wide.

But yeah, apart from that, and winning headers in midfield, and winning the ball back, and making runs forward to make space for other players, he doesn't do much.

Christ, he's 22, he's a fantastic prospect for that age.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Bad day at the office. Chelsea took their chances, we didn't, so they deserved that.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

TikTikTikTikTik said:
Yeah, neither team deserved to win it really, but Chelsea took their chance.
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I agree. Today we lacked the presence of an attack minded midfielder.

I dont think its good to keep changing gerrard from a forward to center mid within a game.... It ruins his rhyth. Once Aquilani is fit he'll slot in nicely with macherano. Lucas had a decent game today but as always Riera was iffy - He needs to step it up a gear at times.

....but I cant argue about the result, just annoyed about the way the goals were given to chelski.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

And another match in which we get scored after Mascherano loose the ball in the midfield. And surprisingly, against Chelsea, again. Just like last year.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

dev_don said:
as always Riera was iffy - He needs to step it up a gear at times.
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He can't step it up, he's crap.

Anyways, you were just on the end of two good bits of play by Drogba, nothing more, nothing less. Two teams that cancel each other out pretty perfectly really so neither set of forwards had much to do, and when they did they decided the game.

What the hell did Benayoun do to miss that at the end though!?
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Summed it up that, Torres should have burried his chance aswell at 1-0. The players were all too busy defending that they fluffed any decent chance in attack due to shock. :D
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Did you guys red what Gillet said ? He is incredible, he s blaming Rafa for Liverpool (or I should say Gillet & Hicks) economical troubles.
Anyway, Saturday 17 of October, the Italian Maestro is making his debut with Liverpool shirt. Cant wait to see where is he going to play.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Thought Carra got done twice, too slow to react to Drogbas Cross/Anelka run, and then muscled out for the 2nd goal.

Just wish Benayoun stuck that away, because we deserved a goal at least and Chelsea were flattered by the scoreline.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Liverbird said:
Did you guys red what Gillet said ? He is incredible, he s blaming Rafa for Liverpool (or I should say Gillet & Hicks) economical troubles.
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No he didnt.

You clearly haven't read a word of what has been reported if you think that's the case.

He said if Liverpool dont win anything soon, then people have to look to Rafa for answers not them, which is absolutely right.

He said that they have invested more than any of the other big 4 clubs, so if things aren't getting better over the last few months, how is it their fault? He's right, Rafa has got a fairly poor scouting system in place, he overspends on players and then the fans blame all the problems on the owners, despite the investment and the hugely lucrative shirt sponsor deal they've got for you.

Sometimes you need to take a step back, take your Rafa-specs off and think about it.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

I have read the transcript and he clearly implies Rafa is at fault. However hes not stupid enough to blame him directly as there probably would be a backlash from some fans.

Benitez net spending has been around 80 to 90 Million - which has been covered by premier league payments and champions league progress. So the finances are not his fault as we would have made a profit if it weren’t for us having to service the debt that was used to buy the club.

Our scouting system is ok and obviously not amazing but not poor as theres been a few gems we've got due to it like Skrtel Agger and danny pachecho who is for the future. I would only say that aresenals scouting system is far superior to the top 4 clubs. I wouldn’t say chelsea or utds are much better than ours over recent years, even wigan arent bad at finding decent players - Hendy Thomas, valencia, figeroua, palacious.

There will always be bad signings and rafa has to take the blame for them although Robbie Keane was a transfer forced on him he could have handled him better by letting him finish a game or two!

But there has been an improvement from the houlier days - Some Players were abousolute gob shite such as bernard diomed, diouf, diaou, smicer (although he was class in training apprently) sean dundee , erik meiyer!

Regarding the overspend – as we haven’t seen Aquilani in Prem yet so its premature to say. On Robbie Keane we played 10 mil initially and then 10 mil would be payed in installments. Spurs bought him back for 7 mil so we lost 3 mil not included wages and obviously the over 10mil in installments does not need to be paid now. As for Glen johnson we played only 10 mil this summer and wrote off thier 7mil debt for crouchy as we wernt gonna get the money anytime soon due to thier financial situation.

The fans appreciate Purslows work for the new sponsor deal but it gillet and hicks didnt have much input in brokering the deal. Rick Parry was a passive chairmen, it was poor management on his behalf regarding the Carlsberg deal. Because alot of clubs renegotiate deals once the team becomes more lucrative due to our recent sucesses in europe.

Im not blindly defending Rafa as at times he can baffle fans and his own staff im sure, but he is not soley to blame and I dont think your statements are that accurate.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Jumbo_ said:
No he didnt.

You clearly haven't read a word of what has been reported if you think that's the case.

He said if Liverpool dont win anything soon, then people have to look to Rafa for answers not them, which is absolutely right.

He said that they have invested more than any of the other big 4 clubs, so if things aren't getting better over the last few months, how is it their fault? He's right, Rafa has got a fairly poor scouting system in place, he overspends on players and then the fans blame all the problems on the owners, despite the investment and the hugely lucrative shirt sponsor deal they've got for you.

Sometimes you need to take a step back, take your Rafa-specs off and think about it.
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Dude, I read it and he clearly sais that Rafa Benitez has invested a lot of money (which is not true) and that he is the reason of these results. I dont know, if you ask for Barry and they bring you Riera, if you ask for Upson or Turner and they bring you a greek ...
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

I've read the transcript too and he does not imply Rafa is at fault for the finances AT ALL.

He's saying if there is no significant progress in footballing terms, then Rafa and the scouting system are to blame.

From his tone you can tell he's hurt by the hate he gets from the fans and is just trying to fight his corner. They are being accused of lying about the money Rafa is meant to have been given, when they havent, it was spent on contract renewals and Rafa overspent on Johnson and didnt get much back for Arbeloa.

Think about it, Portsmouth needed any money they could get. They sold Crouch and Kranjcar for a combined £11m to Spurs, Distin to Everton for £5m, Lassana Diarra for £17m in January, Muntari for £13.5m the summer before, and they still managed to get £18m out of you for Johnson, regardless of whether some of that was offset by the Crouch deal (it's still lost money). That's some strange negotiating considering Rafa wouldnt pay that for Barry last summer which in the end cost him Alonso.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

I wouldn't say we overspent on Johnson at all. He's been a huge positive for us and when you compare that price tag to similar players in that range who we've signed, he's been a tremendous buy.

What other English right back is going to be available for cheap? In fact what other England first-choice international in any position is going to be cheap? Let's look at the England team who played Croatia, how much would you expect to have to pay for these?

* Robert Green,
* Glen Johnson,
* John Terry,
* Matthew Upson,
* Ashley Cole,
* Aaron Lennon (David Beckham, 81),
* Gareth Barry,
* Frank Lampard,
* Steven Gerrard (James Milner, 81),
* Wayne Rooney,
* Emile Heskey (Jermain Defoe, 60)

Green and Heskey aside, you'll easily be paying £15m upwards for the rest of those players.

And not sure how much you expect us to have raised for Arbeloa considering he was in the last year of his contract and would've left for nothing next summer anyway.
 
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Re: Liverpool Thread

Jumbo_ said:
I've read the transcript too and he does not imply Rafa is at fault for the finances AT ALL.

He's saying if there is no significant progress in footballing terms, then Rafa and the scouting system are to blame.

From his tone you can tell he's hurt by the hate he gets from the fans and is just trying to fight his corner. They are being accused of lying about the money Rafa is meant to have been given, when they havent, it was spent on contract renewals and Rafa overspent on Johnson and didnt get much back for Arbeloa.

Think about it, Portsmouth needed any money they could get. They sold Crouch and Kranjcar for a combined £11m to Spurs, Distin to Everton for £5m, Lassana Diarra for £17m in January, Muntari for £13.5m the summer before, and they still managed to get £18m out of you for Johnson, regardless of whether some of that was offset by the Crouch deal (it's still lost money). That's some strange negotiating considering Rafa wouldnt pay that for Barry last summer which in the end cost him Alonso.
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Did you know that Man City and Chelsea also wanted the player ? And I dont think he is overworth, thats what cost to bring the best RB in the world.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Bosingwa, Heitinga, Zabaleta, Brown, O'Shea, Corluka, Melchiot are all about the same quality as Johnson, some worse at attacking but much better at defending.

For £18m you could have bought a much better defender from abroad and then a younger English midfielder for some strength in depth if you needed to boost your homegrown quota cos Houillier and Rafa have abandoned them all these years
 
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Re: Liverpool Thread

Yes, the very same Wes Brown who played the most games out of everyone in our squad the 07/08 season when we won the double, and John O'Shea who was our consistent full-back last season when we won so many trophies.

Sagna is miles better than Johnson.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Jumbo_ said:
Bosingwa, Heitinga, Zabaleta, Brown, O'Shea, Corluka, Melchiot are all about the same quality as Johnson, some worse at attacking but much better at defending.

For £18m you could have bought a much better defender from abroad and then a younger English midfielder for some strength in depth if you needed to boost your homegrown quota cos Houillier and Rafa have abandoned them all these years
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heitinga and zabaleta are no better in anyway than johnson and Melchiot!!! where the hell did that come from hes out of postion more than Johnson even more out of postion than Allan SMith!:APPLAUD:

. The rest are better defensively but johnson holds the attacking prowess. Rafa gave the english lads a chance he had inherited from Houlier like mellor and warnock they just didnt make it. Now benitez has controll over the youth teams which he didnt have before we'll produce better foreign tallent. But we do need more uk lads. Although spearing and darby are good prospects.

Your speaking of overspending. Berbatov for 30 is a waste hes a good player but not 30 mil and Rooney was not 30 mil then but he'll prove his worth this season i think. Johnson will prove his worth in the years to come too. However Berba never will, hes a good player but never ever worth 30 mil - Anderson is decent but wernt worth the cash and Nani is worth nothing. So everyone overspends at times because when you need a player you just have to get him.




But off point but it is pretty much the basis of the problems with the Prem...I resent most of the foreign charimen. Dont get me wrong though Im not ethocentric bastard I love the fact we've got players and coaches from round the globe.

At the end of the day foreign chairmen (even more so than British chairment) ultimately do not really care about the game, they care about the Botton Line ($$$) ... Simple really. At the moment the exception is Randy Lerner who is trying to build a club in the right way with O'Neil. I mean Villa even pay Acorns (chairity) and has them on Villas shirt is amongst the things he has done at villa which i respect him for.

The Glazers have put a financial load on UTD, which is why you havent spent all the money from Ronaldo on a quality left winger or striker (which i think utd could do with). All this foreign investment will ruin the game, no doubt interms of entertainment England has the best players from the world here currently therefore the best league. But the huge wagers and financial burders risked by Foreign investors to aquire clubs and to re-invest in them will collapse the league one day I believe.

Because a club or two will go bankrupt, people will loose the passion for the game. Not exactly the same but look at Serie A since its corruption scandal the attendances are down - some world class players have left and it struggled to get broadcasters to aquire the viewing rights abroad. Ive been to quite a few domestic italian games over recent years and there is a significant loss of passion.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

DagsJT said:
Brown?! O'Shea?! Melchiot?!

:LMAO: :CRY: :LMAO:
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Yeah Wes Brown who was outstanding at right back for United when they won the league and the CL, and was first choice for England until he was out for a season injured.

And John O'Shea who's played a key role in the last 3 title winning seasons and has made over 300 appearances for United.

And Mario Melchiot a dutch international with years of expereince and very comfortable defending and going forward.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

dev_don said:
Rafa gave the english lads a chance he had inherited from Houlier like mellor and warnock they just didnt make it. Now benitez has controll over the youth teams which he didnt have before we'll produce better foreign tallent. But we do need more uk lads. Although spearing and darby are good prospects.
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Warnock's a decent player, he could play in your team now, at least as back up for whoever is first choice (Aurelio?). Would've saved £8m on Dossena anyway. SAF has proven that if you believe in a player and work on his development, even if they don't appear to be making the grade at first it can reap you rewards in the end, just look at Fletcher, O'Shea & Brown.

This Benitez having full control is bollocks, they've had random foreign lads pouring in for most of his tenure, none of them cracking the first team. If you're struggling for English players this isn't helping is it?

Your speaking of overspending. Berbatov for 30 is a waste hes a good player but not 30 mil and Rooney was not 30 mil then but he'll prove his worth this season i think. Johnson will prove his worth in the years to come too. However Berba never will, hes a good player but never ever worth 30 mil - Anderson is decent but wernt worth the cash and Nani is worth nothing. So everyone overspends at times because when you need a player you just have to get him.
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Yeah, most United fans will tell you £30m was too much for Berba but we had our hand forced and we're not moaning that our owners aren't giving us enough money. That's the difference.

So if Liverpool continue not to win much, Johnson never adds to his Premiership winners medals he got at Chelsea (think he's the only guy in your squad with one!) will he still have proved his worth? And if United win a couple more titles over the next few seasons Berba plays well, scores some goals, etc etc that wont be well spent? Hmmm. I'm not so sure.

But off point but it is pretty much the basis of the problems with the Prem...I resent most of the foreign charimen. Dont get me wrong though Im not ethocentric bastard I love the fact we've got players and coaches from round the globe.

At the end of the day foreign chairmen (even more so than British chairment) ultimately do not really care about the game, they care about the Botton Line ($$$) ... Simple really. At the moment the exception is Randy Lerner who is trying to build a club in the right way with O'Neil. I mean Villa even pay Acorns (chairity) and has them on Villas shirt is amongst the things he has done at villa which i respect him for.

The Glazers have put a financial load on UTD, which is why you havent spent all the money from Ronaldo on a quality left winger or striker (which i think utd could do with). All this foreign investment will ruin the game, no doubt interms of entertainment England has the best players from the world here currently therefore the best league. But the huge wagers and financial burders risked by Foreign investors to aquire clubs and to re-invest in them will collapse the league one day I believe.

Because a club or two will go bankrupt, people will loose the passion for the game. Not exactly the same but look at Serie A since its corruption scandal the attendances are down - some world class players have left and it struggled to get broadcasters to aquire the viewing rights abroad. Ive been to quite a few domestic italian games over recent years and there is a significant loss of passion.
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Agree with that, but its not cos of the corruption scandal, a lot of the clubs had financial problems from overspending like we are in England now.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

I'm not complaining about the money invested as it has been a good amount but its where its comefrom thats the problem (refinancing the clubs assets). Which means the extra money that we could have been entitled to has been siphoned away

What ever happens this season Benitez will be held accountable. I have a little symphathy for some situations hes been put in and SAF has never been dealt with like that even when he hadnt won much at UTD although there way alot of pressure on him. But forget the wingeing about the way the Americans have handled rafa and the finances.....if we dont achieve anything significant then it would mean 4 trophyless years. Not good enough.

Id like to see a salary and transfer cap, but I think its just a but to idealistic. Salary cap is easy to implement say 50K for example, although the UK tax rate at 50% would mean all the good players will eventually leave. Transfer cap is difficult to decide because a club has a value (extorsionate or not) and a prospective club has a figuire there willing to pay. I think there will be a point were the fans realise theres not enough value for money in watching a game live especially when it costs alot to go. Thats why i hope some restriction on the money aspect can be worked through or we'll fuck up like italy did. I mean watching Serie A in mid 90's was pure joy and now Id rather watch the BlueSq (no disrespect) as theres an atmosphere at games there.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

I think Rafa is a genius. By taking potshots at Fergie at clever times, and by consistently fudging his maths he has the Liverpool faithful eating from the palm of his hand. And long may it continue.

I think he's a very intelligent, very methodical and somewhat successful manager. I also don't think that there are many better managers available to replace him, so keeping him is sensible. But I don't think he's in the top echelon, and I don't really understand why Liverpool fans give him so much love.

I know there's loads of debate about the figures/starting point/so on and so forth, but the fact remains is that he's now had the time and resources to build his own squad, and they still don't quite look good enough. And if not for one signing (Torres) I would argue that he wouldn't even be in his job anymore.

He had a golden opportunity to win the league last year, and wasn't quite up to it. Do you really think as many things will go his way again this season? You'll exceed last year's point total?
 
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