Liverpool Thread

Re: Liverpool Thread(King Kenny!!)

Haven't seen that table before, thanks for letting us know :TU:

Look at those prices, and how many were worth the money paid? People concentrating so much on the £35m but not actually wondering why it's that price. Hours in the transfer window, a very talented young English striker who will be an England regular up front and can only get better, buying from a team who didn't want to sell and that player was their talisman.

I'll leave it at that. There's been more than enough posts in here explaining the transfer so no point in repeating. If you still don't understand then either you haven't read those posts or you're just a WUM. I suspect the latter.

And for the Man Utd fans, is Berbatov really worth £30m? Anderson for £17m?

In today's money, how much was Veron when you paid £28.1m for him ten years ago? Now consider you sold Beckham two years later to Real Madrid for LESS than what you bought Veron for :LOL:

Did he ask to leave? Maybe that would explain a bit of the low price, but Beckham should've gone for a lot more than £25m if Veron was "worth" £28.1m.

If he didn't ask to leave, well what's that all about? At least we sold Torres because he was persistent about wanting to leave and when he did leave, we got top money for him.

Also, take into account inflation. How much more expensive is £35m for Carroll with regards to your average transfer in tne Premier League in the last season or two? And then look at Veron and Beckham, how much more expensive were they for the average transfer at that time?

I dunno, Trevor Francis cost £1m in 1979 so anyone over £1m is ridiculous I reckon ;)

Edit:

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...uropes-elite-led-to-manic-monday-2201267.html

The £3.3m Dalglish paid out for a 22-year-old Shearer equates to £22m in today's money when run through the Current Transfer Purchase Price Index (CTPP) model created by Paul Tomkins, author of Pay as You Play. Tomkins' excellent analysis of the Carroll deal on tomkinstimes.com uses CTPP to calculate the most expensive transfers in real terms. It shows that Chelsea paid £38.3m for Shaun Wright-Phillips in 2005 and Juan Sebastian Veron cost Manchester United £36.8m in 2001. The price Shearer commanded when sold to Newcastle a year after Dalglish stepped down was £39m in today's money.
Click to expand...

So Liverpool's most expensive signings using the CTPP:

1. Andy Carroll - £35m
2. Djibril Cisse - £25.8m
3. Emile Heskey - £25.8m
4. Luis Suarez - £22.3m
5. Fernando Torres - £22.5m

Manchester United:

1. Wayne Rooney - £49.1m
2. Rio Ferdinand - £48.4m
3. Juan Sebastien Veron - £36.8m
4. Michael Carrick - £32.3m
5. Dwight Yorke - £30.8m
 
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Re: Liverpool Thread(King Kenny!!)

why do the media say Andy broke the record then ? Good Lord mutd spends lots on transfers :LOL:
 
Re: Liverpool Thread(King Kenny!!)

A workmate has just added to that article.

United's £8m for 22-year-old Javier Hernandez looks like great business but they will need to spend in the summer, with Gary Neville, Wes Brown, Michael Owen, Owen Hargreaves and Edwin van der Sar to replace, and who is out there now?
Click to expand...

Also factor in Giggs and Scholes, who are still influential for United.

There's going to be a pretty big overhaul at Old Trafford this summer, and do the Glazers have the money to pay for that?
 
Re: Liverpool Thread(King Kenny!!)

DagsJT said:
Haven't seen that table before, thanks for letting us know :TU:

Look at those prices, and how many were worth the money paid? People concentrating so much on the £35m but not actually wondering why it's that price. Hours in the transfer window, a very talented young English striker who will be an England regular up front and can only get better, buying from a team who didn't want to sell and that player was their talisman.

I'll leave it at that. There's been more than enough posts in here explaining the transfer so no point in repeating. If you still don't understand then either you haven't read those posts or you're just a WUM. I suspect the latter.

And for the Man Utd fans, is Berbatov really worth £30m? Anderson for £17m?

In today's money, how much was Veron when you paid £28.1m for him ten years ago? Now consider you sold Beckham two years later to Real Madrid for LESS than what you bought Veron for :LOL:

Did he ask to leave? Maybe that would explain a bit of the low price, but Beckham should've gone for a lot more than £25m if Veron was "worth" £28.1m.

If he didn't ask to leave, well what's that all about? At least we sold Torres because he was persistent about wanting to leave and when he did leave, we got top money for him.

Also, take into account inflation. How much more expensive is £35m for Carroll with regards to your average transfer in tne Premier League in the last season or two? And then look at Veron and Beckham, how much more expensive were they for the average transfer at that time?

I dunno, Trevor Francis cost £1m in 1979 so anyone over £1m is ridiculous I reckon ;)

Edit:

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...uropes-elite-led-to-manic-monday-2201267.html



So Liverpool's most expensive signings using the CTPP:

1. Andy Carroll - £35m
2. Djibril Cisse - £25.8m
3. Emile Heskey - £25.8m
4. Luis Suarez - £22.3m
5. Fernando Torres - £22.5m

Manchester United:

1. Wayne Rooney - £49.1m
2. Rio Ferdinand - £48.4m
3. Juan Sebastien Veron - £36.8m
4. Michael Carrick - £32.3m
5. Dwight Yorke - £30.8m
Click to expand...

That has to be wrong. Not wanting to slight his calculations, but it is worth noting the guy is a Liverpool fan, who only created this index to hammer home the 'net spend' argument favoured by Benitez worshippers (when the simple revenue in - revenue out argument didn't work)

Simple example - how can it be that Rooney's fee (£27m, 5 years ago) have increased to almost £50m, while Torres's fee (£26.hm, 3 years ago) have actually decreased down to £22.5m?

Plus, if we wanted to take into account inflation, surely we'd just use inflation - CPI or RPI? Not some arbitrary index that is almost entirely skewed by 1 or 2 tranfers a season?

Anyway, as Gerd alluded to - it is always fun to watch die hard fans of a team try so hard to justify actions and be positive.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread(King Kenny!!)

beachryan said:
Anyway, as Gerd alluded to - it is always fun to watch die hard fans of a team try so hard to justify actions and be positive.
Click to expand...

Likewise with United fans who will find a negative in absolutely anything positive that happens with Liverpool and bang on about that.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread(King Kenny!!)

DagsJT said:
Likewise with United fans who will find a negative in absolutely anything positive that happens with Liverpool and bang on about that.
Click to expand...

I think I've been pretty positive about Suarez and Carroll. I think they'll link up well, and at virtually no net cost to Liverpool it was good business.

I'm just willing to call out the random 'FACT' generation that emerges from Liverpool fans every now and then, because if no one responds to falsities, eventually they become truth to the masses.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread(King Kenny!!)

That wasn't aimed at you by the way, just United fans in general. Apologies if it came across that way.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread(King Kenny!!)

Aboutreika18 said:
1 - Cristiano Ronaldo £80m
2 - Zlatan Ibrahimović £56.5m
3 - Kaká £56m
4 - Fernando Torres £50m
5 - Zinedine Zidane £45m
6 - Luís Figo £37m
7 - Hernán Crespo £35.5m
8 - Andy Carroll £35m
9 - David Villa £34.2m
10 - Gianluigi Buffon £32.6m
Click to expand...


Cheap as chips, he's the only one who still has 10 years left to play, whereas the rest of them were all close to 30. :P

I'll go down a paranoid scouser route ( ;) ) and divide the amount of years left (let's say 32 to make it simple) when bought and see how much they cost per year. And that's without a sell on fee.

1 - Cristiano Ronaldo £80m - 24 = 10mil p.y.
2 - Zlatan Ibrahimović £56.5m - 28 = 17.5mil
3 - Kaká £56m - 27 = 11mil
4 - Fernando Torres £50m - 26 = 9mil
5 - Zinedine Zidane £45m - 29 = 15mil p.y.
6 - Luís Figo £37m - 28 = 9mil
7 - Hernán Crespo £35.5m - 25 = 5mil
8 - Andy Carroll £35m - 22 = 3.5mil
9 - David Villa £34.2m - 29 = 11mil
10 - Gianluigi Buffon £32.6m - 23 = 3.5mil

So you see Carrol is potentially the cheapest of the record signings :SMUG: What's the big deal? Utd have been doing this for years, how many games did Rooney play before being snapped up for 30mil?! Hell, you signed a homeless kid for 8mil, now I know Carrol looks like he could be one aswell, but still.

Tbh, nobody knows whether it will be a ridiculous price or not. It's a risk, and could go either way. Although with his age I think the potential to lose money won't be very high as I mentioned earlier.
 
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Re: Liverpool Thread(King Kenny!!)

beachryan said:
That has to be wrong. Not wanting to slight his calculations, but it is worth noting the guy is a Liverpool fan, who only created this index to hammer home the 'net spend' argument favoured by Benitez worshippers (when the simple revenue in - revenue out argument didn't work)

Simple example - how can it be that Rooney's fee (£27m, 5 years ago) have increased to almost £50m, while Torres's fee (£26.hm, 3 years ago) have actually decreased down to £22.5m?

Plus, if we wanted to take into account inflation, surely we'd just use inflation - CPI or RPI? Not some arbitrary index that is almost entirely skewed by 1 or 2 tranfers a season?

Anyway, as Gerd alluded to - it is always fun to watch die hard fans of a team try so hard to justify actions and be positive.
Click to expand...

To be pedantic, football finance has grown far faster then international inflation rates. The same argument could be leveled at videogames, whereas PES used to have 8 guys and Seabass' chimp to make the game they now need 200 just to keep up with the tech.

Although the Torres rate is odd, but I do remember numbers from 20mil to 26mil being mentioned as the transferrate.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread(King Kenny!!)

Aboutreika18 said:
1 - Cristiano Ronaldo £80m
2 - Zlatan Ibrahimović £56.5m
3 - Kaká £56m
4 - Fernando Torres £50m
5 - Zinedine Zidane £45m
6 - Luís Figo £37m
7 - Hernán Crespo £35.5m
8 - Andy Carroll £35m
9 - David Villa £34.2m
10 - Gianluigi Buffon £32.6m

:LOL:
Click to expand...

The thing is Dags all of those players were great players when they went for that fee, Andy Carroll is suddenly being made out to be Wayne Rooney talented but he's not or ever likely to be, he's a flavour of the month Striker just like Zaki, Phillips and Santa Cruz.

DagsJT said:
A workmate has just added to that article.

United's £8m for 22-year-old Javier Hernandez looks like great business but they will need to spend in the summer, with Gary Neville, Wes Brown, Michael Owen, Owen Hargreaves and Edwin van der Sar to replace, and who is out there now?
Click to expand...



Also factor in Giggs and Scholes, who are still influential for United.

There's going to be a pretty big overhaul at Old Trafford this summer, and do the Glazers have the money to pay for that?
Click to expand...

You seem pretty out the loop with saying we need to invest heavily to replace Neville, Brown and Owen? All of those can't get a game, infact Danny Welbeck will replace Owen who is probably going to be a better player than Andy Carroll.Scholes will need replacing but Anderson will do that most likely and Giggs is great but he's not essential with Park and Valencia to comeback.

So we basically need a keeper, not a massive overhaul.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread(King Kenny!!)

Torres sale was never on the table for LFC this January, it´s like a thing we had to cope with suddenly... This was first transfer window and the owners get us money for Suarez, to partner Torres.. but the case Torres did what he did, club had to act quick.. And yet we spend barely 2 milion pounds...

NEVERMIND the prize of Carroll tbh, it´s replacement for Torres, straight swap + we have Suarez.. and who knows how much money that the owners didn´t touch yet...+ players we have loaned...

For LFC again the money is just numbers in this case... it´s happend to be record but for us it´s maybe better then to rely on Striker who was not giving his best for us a year.

here a nice article: http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/live...he-face-of-liverpool-fc-fans-100252-28098077/
 
Re: Liverpool Thread(King Kenny!!)

And the other European games that season?

As Abou says, hindsight is a wonderful thing. Nothing to say that Carroll won't score a hat-trick on his debut so not really sure what your point is?

We could've signed Kaka for £2m and United fans would say he's passed it, we could've signed Benzema and he'd be called a flop, we could've signed Llorente and he wouldn't suit England, Lukaku would be called overhyped and a waste of money, we could've signed Luis Suarez and he'd be called unproven ... oh wait....

We should've just signed a homeless kid for £8m instead, that'd be fine. 26 games and 4 goals for a 20 year old, well worth £8m. Compared to 22 year old Carroll who's played in the top English league and played for England and has a good goalscoring record.

United fans should be the last people to be talking about paying over the odds for a player who's unproven ;)
 
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Re: Liverpool Thread(King Kenny!!)

YoungGun_UK said:
Andy Carroll is suddenly being made out to be Wayne Rooney talented but he's not or ever likely to be, he's a flavour of the month Striker just like Zaki, Phillips and Santa Cruz.
Click to expand...

How do you know how much value he will ever be to Liverpool's future?
If he fails come back and say all that but for now, what's the point in really saying anything? The fact is nobody knows how this will pan out. Could be a disaster. Could be great business. Rooney was flavour of the month at one time too remember?! That could have been a shit transfer but it ended up working out OK so far.

Rooney has only had one great season with his goal scoring return and hasn't been absolutely amazing the rest of the time he's been at United scoring wise. IS he a good player? Of course he is. Does he contribute in other ways too? He sure does.
Is Carroll a good player? Haven't see enough of him and I certainly don't see him playing week in week out to really give a judgement. Just like everyone in here!!
I will trust a footballing great like Kenny before any of the shit some people talk in here though.

IF Fergie bought Carroll for this price if one of United's forwards chucked a request in like Torres did, would you still be saying the same thing? Would you hell! You'd trust Fergie's judgement and see what happens before saying anything.

Time will tell with this one for me though and I ain't stupid enough to start spouting off either way!
 
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Re: Liverpool Thread(King Kenny!!)

RuneEdge said:
Yeah, but Rooney did this on his debut:

YouTube - Wayne Rooney's Debut Hatrick In Champions League
Click to expand...

Well Rooney is world class superstar and striker of pure class since his 16 years..Not talking about love for his club, he is rolemodel and he never was doubted about it.. Fantastic for United fans to have such player like Rooney, legend in making..

While Carroll is just average striker, nothing special, why the hell LFC spend so much on him, i bet he won´t score a hattrick on his Champions league debut, becouse LFC don´t play in Champions league yet against mighty Turkey teams...With 22 years, i think he is finished already, Not shure why he would be given england shirt again.. such waste...
 
Re: Liverpool Thread(King Kenny!!)

Of course, that isn't to say that Bebe might turn out to be fantastic. But then, as far as I know, none of us can see into the future and see how good Carroll will get either.

Foresight would be a wonderful thing.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread(King Kenny!!)

DagsJT said:
And the other European games that season?

As Abou says, hindsight is a wonderful thing. Nothing to say that Carroll won't score a hat-trick on his debut so not really sure what your point is?

We could've signed Kaka for £2m and United fans would say he's passed it, we could've signed Benzema and he'd be called a flop, we could've signed Llorente and he wouldn't suit England, Lukaku would be called overhyped and a waste of money, we could've signed Luis Suarez and he'd be called unproven ... oh wait....
Click to expand...
lol
Really clutching straws there, arent ya? I dont think anyone would have said anything negative if you had signed either Kaka or Benzema for £35m. But people are saying these things because its Andy Carroll. Andy Carroll, FFS. That list of top 10 transfers just shows how overrated his price tag was.
But lets throw that all aside for a second and call it "ambition" in the transfer market, to make it sound like a good thing. If you're a team thats willing to spend that kind of money on players, you HAVE to be doing a lot better than what you are right now.
Now I know you're gonna give me the usual "but who's to say it wont happen" response but Im being realistic here. All the stuff you've said has basically been along those lines.
If that's the stance you want to take in the discussion then thats fine with me. You and I both know the price you paid was ridiculous, and that realistically he's not gonna get a hatrick on his European debut. But cuz he hasnt actually played a game for you yet, you can hide behind that fact and say "technically it was a good move", and back it up with silly facts such as the "price per year" figures you looked up.
I guess I'll stay out of this and not come back until he's played about 5-6 games. We'll see how people feel about it then.

In the mean time, feel free to bring up how shit Berba had been in the first two years.


EDIT
Sorry, thought you were TikTikTikTikTik. My point still stands though.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread(King Kenny!!)

Erm.

I don't really need to say anything about that post.

:LMAO:

No, no. Go on, I'll bite.

Those prices have already been touched upon, it doesn't fit your arguement though so you're glossing over the reasons we've given. Nevermind.

We HAVE to be doing a lot better to sign players for £35m? Eh? Since when? What kind of rule is this? And where is this rule? Were Man City doing well when they signed their first player for big money? Most ludicrous thing I've heard in this thread, and I've said some crazy shit :LOL:

Realistically he wont get a hat-trick in his European debut ... and you know this how? Because I'd love to have a look in that crystal ball so you can tell me what team he'll be playing against, what defenders he'll face and if his debut will be at home. Because you must know these things as you know he's not going to score three goals on his debut.

I think you should definitely come back after 5-6 games. Because that's the perfect time to judge a player joining a new team. And while you're at it, it'd be great if you can watch other players in the Premier League and leave a comment in the relevant thread saying how they've done in those 5-6 games. Then, when the player has gotten used to the team and style of play, we can go back later and see if you were right or wrong to judge a player after 5-6 games. Because if a player hasn't settled after 5-6 games, he's a flop and not justified his price tag.

Maybe you can go through the top priced transfers of the last few seasons and see what their goalscoring record was after 5-6 games and we'll say if they were rubbish or not. We can forget the rest of the games played because the first 5-6 games for a new club is enough to make a judgement anyway.

But then you will be right. Because you have this magic crystal ball which says he wont get a hat-trick on his European debut.

In the meantime, Berbatov's strikerate in his first two years is awesome. I hope Carroll is just as good as that. Because if he gets a hat-trick in his first European game, then he'll have made a great start on catching Berbatov's superb games/goal ratio.

Out of interest, how did Berbatov do in his first 5-6 games for Man Utd?
 
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Re: Liverpool Thread(King Kenny!!)

RuneEdge If we win it dont matter if he scores, but if he playes for the team - then i will be happy..

Besides what makes you feel your opinion about our striker is important here? I for example don´t give a damn about United team or any player...why are you then criticizing our player before he played a game already for us?

If it was United buying him you would be happy so is it?

Seriously not interested, others made valuable points before but this is just subjective criticizing other club..

Kaka and Benzema play nothing in Madrid this days, i prefeur having Carroll and Suarez over them..
 
Re: Liverpool Thread(King Kenny!!)

Shrek has been shit this year! Too busy shagging grannies I reckon and as Mickey says "Women weaken legs".

Plenty of donkeys have scored hat tricks in the past. I'm noy saying Rooney is a donkey because he isn't but scoring a hat trick on a debut is great but it didn't mean he would end up being amazing. What if Carroll happened to score a Hat Trick against a better team than that shit team on his debut? Would you say he's amazing then? You wouldn't so somebody saying about anybody scoring a hat trick on his debut actually means fuck all! Doesn't mean shit in the long term.

Agree with PIPA though, why do non fans come in here?
 
Re: Liverpool Thread(King Kenny!!)

PU6HY said:
Agree with PIPA though, why do non fans come in here?
Click to expand...

Been asking the same thing for ages. And the only reply you ever get is that it's a forum and for discussion. And that's a fair point. But when you get drivel posted like Rune's last post, well it's hardly contributing anything is it.

Now and then they do come in with some good points and discussion though, to be fair. Unfortunately those are few and far between.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread(King Kenny!!)

DagsJT said:
they do come in with some good points and discussion though, to be fair. Unfortunately those are few and far between.
Click to expand...

it's the same regarding fans as well. yeah, unfortunately.. and I can't even imagine that ratio regarding those "die hard" ones of them.. yeah, so unfortunately.. I don't even mention the pathetic fascists..
 
Re: Liverpool Thread(King Kenny!!)

PU6HY said:
Since I was about 5 fella. Love them through good and bad times. Don't chop and change like some people do. I'm obviously a Cardiff fan and they come first (being my hometown club) but Liverpool have always been my big club.

My foreign team of choice is Barca. And that's not because of how they play now (but I do love the way they play obviously). Just always liked them since my uncle brought me their kit home from Spain over 25 years ago. He passed away not long before I married and in memory of him, I actually went to Barcelona on my stag weekend. Watched them play when there and the rest of the time I was pissed as a fart!

I've been to Liverpool loads of times and going up again in April although this time is for the Grand National.
Click to expand...

quality. thought you was only a cardiff fan. well done.
barca are my team abroad too. when i was a kid i loved there football top. very unique!
 
Re: Liverpool Thread(King Kenny!!)

RuneEdge said:
lol
Really clutching straws there, arent ya? I dont think anyone would have said anything negative if you had signed either Kaka or Benzema for £35m. But people are saying these things because its Andy Carroll. Andy Carroll, FFS. That list of top 10 transfers just shows how overrated his price tag was.
But lets throw that all aside for a second and call it "ambition" in the transfer market, to make it sound like a good thing. If you're a team thats willing to spend that kind of money on players, you HAVE to be doing a lot better than what you are right now.
Now I know you're gonna give me the usual "but who's to say it wont happen" response but Im being realistic here. All the stuff you've said has basically been along those lines.
If that's the stance you want to take in the discussion then thats fine with me. You and I both know the price you paid was ridiculous, and that realistically he's not gonna get a hatrick on his European debut. But cuz he hasnt actually played a game for you yet, you can hide behind that fact and say "technically it was a good move", and back it up with silly facts such as the "price per year" figures you looked up.
I guess I'll stay out of this and not come back until he's played about 5-6 games. We'll see how people feel about it then.

In the mean time, feel free to bring up how shit Berba had been in the first two years.


EDIT
Sorry, thought you were TikTikTikTikTik. My point still stands though.
Click to expand...

I realise logic and common sense don't come into it when you go off on one but,

- I've said that the price is ridiculous and
- my per year comparison was an obvious joke ( I'm sorry you couldn't grasp that with the obvious sarcastic tone and smilies)
- And Rooney had what, 4 or 5 goals in 15-20 matches for Everton and you paid 30mil. Nobody knew if Rooney would turn out to forfill his early promise, nobody will know if Carrol will either, but don't let a reasonable stance stand in your way in having a go at Liverpool paying over the odds for a striker.

*groans*

Run along now, hand in hand with Youngun, who states his opinion as gospel and has a go at the Pool fans for saying something as ridiculous as; "It could be a good signing, it could be a bad signing. Let's hope it's good"
 
Re: Liverpool Thread(King Kenny!!)

Kenny is old school football player and manager..he will play simple football with trying to produce best effectivity for Carroll and others..

look since he came even Poulsen passing get better...it´s again a pass and move style not like under Hodgson..

I belive in summer we will be after realy quality wing who can provide Carroll with good crosses..now i will look forward to Kenny style if both Suarez and Carroll are fit, this might be simillar to Huntelaar - Suarez partnership in Ajax, where he also was supporting Huntelaar with balls and making him chances to score.. we will see
 
Re: Liverpool Thread(King Kenny!!)

Fingers crossed for Suarez starting tonight, although Stoke are a pretty physical team so it'd be a nice intro to the Premier League if he did play :)
 
Re: Liverpool Thread(King Kenny!!)

Can't imagine Suarez will start tonight tbh, he hasn't played since early December. Will be good to see him come off the bench though.
 
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