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Liverpool Thread

Re: Liverpool Thread

Daniel Agger. Who Roy froze out of the team because he told Agger he didn't want him to carry the ball out of defence and to boot it as soon as he got it, Agger disagreed, he hasn't played since. Martin Skrtel is another who has no problems bringing the ball out of defence and running with it. Martin Kelly is the same, as is Glen Johnson.

Fulham punt the ball up to Zamora, who's played as a target man and does a very good job of it. But he's different to Fernando Torres.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

I agree with Agger, not with Skrtem.

I don't agree at all with what you say about Fulham. But we never seem to agree (which is interesting).
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

DagsJT said:
Fulham punt the ball up to Zamora, who's played as a target man and does a very good job of it. But he's different to Fernando Torres.
Click to expand...

Total bollocks. Don't be so condescending and arrogant towards a team's style of play when you've clearly not got any idea what you're talking about.

Not much hoofing going on here when they beat you 3-1.
http://espanol.video.yahoo.com/watch/6325440/16409499

Or here when they beat us 3-0.
YouTube - Fulham vs Manchester United 3-0 Highlights HD

Or here when they beat Juve 4-1.
YouTube - Fulham 4-1 Juventus goal full highlights Europa League

Quick passing, lots of wingplay, fullbacks bombing forward, lovely counter-attacking football.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

I think the lvl of respect from Fulham players vs Liverpool players towards Roy is massive. They fought for Roy at Fulham , maybe an English Boss is a tall order at Pool ? Who was the last English Boss to win the league ? England dosen`t even hire an English to run the NT. :COAT:
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Let's say Wenger, Ancelotti, Ferguson or Mancini got sacked/left ... would Hodgson be accepted amongst the relevant fans if he got appointed the new Arsenal/Chelsea/Man Utd/Man City manager?
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

That was one bad season, that doesn't make us a non-attractive team for managers. Now that NESV have taken over, we have money. Hodgson was brought in to "steady the ship" until Hicks & Gillett sold the club.

The club's been sold, we're far from being steady, we have money. There's no reason for Hodgson to still be at a club where he's not suited to.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Just let him have this season, it's a transition year anyway and the NESV effect isn't gonna be felt properly 'till summer at least.

If he does absolutely nothing, then write it off, get rid and start from scratch in a meaningful transfer window.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

matherto said:
Just let him have this season, it's a transition year anyway and the NESV effect isn't gonna be felt properly 'till summer at least.

If he does absolutely nothing, then write it off, get rid and start from scratch in a meaningful transfer window.
Click to expand...

To be honest, I think that's what NESV will do. They've just appointed Comolli and I can't see them doing that and then changing the manager. Interviews with Henry and Comolli have said the same about the summer being more important too, so I think we will stick with him.

I just hope we can at least muster some effort to get into the Europa League again, or it'll make it even more difficult for the new manager/Comolli to attract players.

Hopefully we're lining up Guardiola when his contract expires.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

matherto said:
Just let him have this season, it's a transition year anyway and the NESV effect isn't gonna be felt properly 'till summer at least.

If he does absolutely nothing, then write it off, get rid and start from scratch in a meaningful transfer window.
Click to expand...
I dont agree at all. How are we going to attract players next season if we dont give them european football ? This is an important season, we got to get back to Europe, and with this guy we are not going to. Plus, I think he had made very clear his transfers are awful.
On other information, thanks to his oustanding performance in Juventus, Aquilani is back in the Italy squad.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

You only qualified for Europe for this season because Portsmouth weren't allowed so Rafa is not much better than Hodgson by your standards.
 
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If you want to reduce the whole Benitez career to one season that was absolutely plagued of injuries and in which the situation with the yanks reached it maximum, go ahead, do it. I know I wont.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

It is so easy to only talk looking at the results.
Julio Cesar injured
Samuel injured for the whole season
Maicon is a shadow of the player he used to be.
Cambiasso injured, and now he is slowly starting to come back
Milito has been injured all season
Sneijder has had a lot of physical problems

If you looked at that, it is not so difficult to understand why Inter is how it is.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

The Benitez hate and Hodgson love is getting absolutely ridiculous in here.Funny how only us us Liverpool fans want Hodgson out(He now knows it as well)but the haters think he's boss.Says alot really.Hodgson's Fulham played better football than Rafa's Liverpool??I've heard it all now.........
 
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It makes sense that United fans want Hodgson to stay, it's clear that we're never going to improve under Hodgson and why would United fans want to see us improve?
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Oh come on what a load of bollocks. You guys react to Man Utd like Everton fans react to Liverpool. Stop being obsessed by Man Utd. Be confident enough to look at your own club and only your own club. This thread is supposed to be about Liverpool not about Man Utd (i said something similar last season in the Everton thread). Why do you guys have an inferiority complex...Man Utd also starts the match with only 11 players and to my knowledge they only have two feet...
I think every neutral will agree that Fulham plays good football for a couple of years now.
As a neutral i never found Liverpool under Benitez an attractive team although at times i was a fan (like in that famous CL final) but i never found them an attractive team under both Benitez and Houllier (strange because Villa are definitely attractive under Houllier).
Benitez is awfull with Inter. His own president (Moratti) is criticising him. In Milan people are asking themselves if Benitez will eat his pannetone...that says it all.

It is clear that Hodgson never had a decent chance with most Liverpool fans. Everything he does is seen from the negative side.

And about Liverpool being an attractive club to top managers, well right at the moment to me Liverpool is a club like Benfica, Ajax and Celtic. All clubs with a very big past, but with a very uncertain future.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Now what are you on about? Obsessed? Inferiority complex? You just don't get it, really. You've already stated in here that you don't understand rivalries like other people do and that's because you don't support specific teams.

It's a RIVALRY, this is what happens when you support a specific team and its main rival is in close proximity, with which you share similar success stories and both wish to out-do each other. United fans spend a lot of time in here, far more than any other supporters. We're obviously going to talk about United a lot more considering that they're our main rival and 99% of other fans in here support United.

I'll tell you what, we'll start comparing ourselves to Rochdale then. There's no logical reason for comparing ourselves to them like there would be to ... oh, I dunno ... Manchester United? Who we're in a fight (or not at the moment, in our case) to have the most league titles, to win European cups, to win domestic cups, to have bragging rights considering a lot of Liverpool and United fans work together in the same workplace and like to wind-up the other set of fans in work.

Yes, let's compare ourselves to Rochdale then.

Unbelievable. I give up trying to have a discussion with you, Gerd. It's completely pointless and we clearly have very different views on football in general, nevermind Liverpool. Maybe someone else can entertain you and explain what it's like to support a team with a big history that doesn't want to be overtaken by their closest rival. Or maybe they won't.
 
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Re: Liverpool Thread

Gerd,

I'm not sure about all the pool fans in here, but we don't go into the Utd thread to post the whole time. Look at this thread, nearly half the posters are manc's who do nothing else but disagree with whatever we say. Atleast it feels like that. If we were saying give Hodgson time and let him settle you would get them posting that he is obviously shit and that he will drag the club down. It's always the same, I remember quoting two posts that directly contradicted each other that were from the same person.

Look at Jumbo, one bad season and he is saying that is the clubs standing (7th and EL), same as you. Yet if you look at the past 5 years Liverpool are one of the highest rated English and European teams. Liverpool had a far better record in europe then Arsenal, and might even have had a higher league rating before last seasons crap. Yet both of you are dismissing the club to also rans like Benfica, Ajax and Celtic, clubs who can barely compete in Europe.

You are saying we shouldn't be short term wanting to get rid of Hodgson already (agree) yet at the same time dismissing the club for one poor season!

And you wonder why the Pool hans get pissed off when all they are doing is posting THEIR frustrations in THEIR thread.

Don't forget with the new owners and lack of debt means the club is likely to be one of the more profitable clubs around (already), and that is without the imminent improvement to the stadium (or redevelopment).

I agree the club shouldn't rush to get a new manager however at the same time look at how open this season the league is. Had Liverpool won the last two games (which isn't an inconcievable hope after beating Chelsea) they would be one point behind City in 4th. I think that is the other issue pushing people to get rid of him, there is still a very good chance to get CL football for next season. Yet for every step in the right direction the team seems to take two steps back. Hodgson said the team were tired after the Chelsea match, yet he didn't rotate anybody! And for the Stoke match it was one or two changes for a team that was obviously knackered. I've already stated my lack of faith in Hodgson and the lack of understanding why he is even rated highly, so I won't comment on that again. ;)
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

gerd said:
Oh come on what a load of bollocks. You guys react to Man Utd like Everton fans react to Liverpool. Stop being obsessed by Man Utd. Be confident enough to look at your own club and only your own club. This thread is supposed to be about Liverpool not about Man Utd (i said something similar last season in the Everton thread). Why do you guys have an inferiority complex...Man Utd also starts the match with only 11 players and to my knowledge they only have two feet...
I think every neutral will agree that Fulham plays good football for a couple of years now.
As a neutral i never found Liverpool under Benitez an attractive team although at times i was a fan (like in that famous CL final) but i never found them an attractive team under both Benitez and Houllier (strange because Villa are definitely attractive under Houllier).
Benitez is awfull with Inter. His own president (Moratti) is criticising him. In Milan people are asking themselves if Benitez will eat his pannetone...that says it all.

It is clear that Hodgson never had a decent chance with most Liverpool fans. Everything he does is seen from the negative side.

And about Liverpool being an attractive club to top managers, well right at the moment to me Liverpool is a club like Benfica, Ajax and Celtic. All clubs with a very big past, but with a very uncertain future.
Click to expand...

It seems i was wrong the last time i said you'd made the biggest twist of logic seen on these boards, as this post is an even clearer twist.

Nobody mentioned Man Utd in any way, people were replying to the Man Utd fans' comments about LIVERPOOL, not about Man Utd. Why are you so desperate to pick at everything Liverpool fans say?

Seriously, at no point on this last page has anyone had a go at Man Utd, read it back, it's Man Utd fans criticising Liverpool fans and criticising Rafa Benitez (for no reason other than to wind people up). Then for no reason at all you go on a rant about Liverpool fans picking on United! :CONFUSE:
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

I never said you had a go at Man Utd.
I only wanted to say that i find it- preposterous to say that Man Utd fans support Hodgson because they want bad results in the future for Liverpool (the reason why i quoted dags). You people are soooo biased because obviously you are fans and because your club is not doing as well as you like. I can understand that, but you are reacting far too emotional.

I'm not a Man Utd fan (very far from it).
And i only compared Liverpool in terms of financial uncertainty with the likes of Ajax...tiktiktik...
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Ballague reckons Pacheco wants to leave after Roy has frozen him out.

I'll be hugely pissed off if he leaves.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

DagsJT said:
Ballague reckons Pacheco wants to leave after Roy has frozen him out.

I'll be hugely pissed off if he leaves.
Click to expand...
Add that to Glen Johnson, Pepe Reina and who knows who else is pissed off with him ? The whole team probably want this guy out.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Ok I'm sorry if I've upset you. I'm just playing devil's advocate most of the time to counter the uber-negativity on Hodgson. I can see he isn't doing an amazing job, but he's not half as bad as you make out and some of the stuff that is said in here about him is pure bollocks so most of the time I'm just offering the alternative view.

Some of you are total hypocrites. Your witch hunt on Roy is worse than the one you reckon everyone else does to Rafa. Last season it was all the owners fault, now it's all Roy's fault (despite having the same problems and more)... it's just ridiculous. You're showing no objectivity at all, which I know is hard as a passionate fan, but comments like the one Dags made about Fulham being a long ball team just shows complete ignorance to what you're talking about and undermines any point you make.

United fans signing Roy's praises because we want him to drag you down? No chance, I'd welcome Rafa back with open arms, he was doing a cracking job of that as it was. ;) Maybe we (plus Gerd and Lo zio) don't have clouded judgement on the situation and disagree with the constant attacks on Hodgson coming from the fans who are supposed to support him. 'Liverpool Way' my arse, only when it suits you eh?

And I didn't think this was the Liverpool thread for Liverpool fans and everyone else can fuck off.... I thought it was thread to discuss Liverpool in.... maybe I'm wrong but I don't think any of the other fans of the other threads would be so precious and defensive about it. When Rooneygate dropped the United thread was full of all sorts passing comment but nobody cared and we had some good debates in the Arsenal thread when the Fabregas saga was going on after the World Cup.

You're always moaning and putting people on ignore for disagreeing with what you post and you got the admittedly childish Everton fans banned for making you cry by saying nasty things. Does it really upset you that much? If you want to have a thread where you can have your say and nobody else can join in unless they conform to the popular Liverpool view then go to Rawk or something, this is a PES forum ffs!!!!
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

I think this thread should be welcome to anyone interested
in commenting about Liverpool.

I respect Jumbo and Gerd...I see why they are defending Hodgson
and I don't think it is because they have some hidden agenda
to see Liverpool become a mediocre team.

But then again I see a bipolar world in the case of Liverpool..
one that says Rafa was never wrong....and that Roy is the worst
thing for Liverpool.

The truth is in between somewhere...

Last season's debacle was down to many reasons
- bad decision in selling Alonso, and not replacing him in time.
Aquilani was never going to be ready in time.
- wasting money on Glen Johnson
- Ownership problem and the negativity
- Rafa's bad man-management
- Injuries to Torres, and no backup for Torres.

But we cannot ignore Rafa's success in the 5 seasons preceding that.
I agree it was time for a change....there was too much
negativity and the media were against Rafa....and it seems
some players were not too happy either.

But I guess the question is .... was the need to replace Rafa
so urgent that we had to go out and get Roy Hodgson ?

And the answer is NO.....we needed someone who was more suited
to Liverpool than Hodgson who in all due respect has shown he
is not well suited to this job in many ways which we already know.
The press conferences, the negative style of football which is worse
than Rafa....I feel Hodgson's football is more similar to Houllier
with the deep defending...which I feel is the biggest problem.
I don't agree that Hodgson is a long-ball merchant...his Fulham team
played better than Bolton or Wimbledon of the 80s.....
but he does have a different footballing philosophy....and I think
that works only at mid-table teams with lesser expectations.
He is not suited to Liverpool for the long-term.

Do we now sack Hodgson ?
If we did, it would be not the cleanest way..
I agree that is not the Liverpool way.....but then what is it ?
Give him the full season ?.... it looks like that will happen
unless results nose dive even further....

I am torn between the two.....I want Liverpool playing better football
for a start....and for us to return to the top which we were mighty
close to when Rafa managed us till before last season.
Do I see that with Roy ?....No.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

jumbo, you know that i like you and i support you for 95% in what you say about this thread and the clouded (and sometimes frustrated, but i understand that) reactions or judgement of the fans. I also agree that is not a thread only for Liverpool fans but also for people who are interested in Liverpool and English football. I'm not a fan of Liverpool but i quite like the club, it's one of the few really big clubs that i like...they always had players that i liked (Dalglish, Alonso, Keegan, Toshack, Hansen, Rush, Barnes, Litmanen, Torres,...).
I don't agree on what you said about the United thread. I never visit that thread because i was virtually lynched only for saying that as a former United fan i sympathised with the club after the Glazer take-over. The fact that i "outed" myself as a former fan was enough to be ostraciszed verbally. People wanted to know why i didn't liked the club, i was attacked because of those reasons (that are strictly personal) and people concluded that i hated Man Utd.

But maybe all this is cultural. I don't understand football rivalries. I think it is extremely stupid. It is primitive tribalism. People react and say that i don't understand because i don't have a foavourite club. Well, i do have a favourite club...it's a very complicated story (it resembles the Wimbledon/MK Dons story) and wont bore you with it. But the point is that my clubs rivals are Anderlecht. If my club plays against Anderlecht (which is once every 3 or 4 years) i want them to win...but i don't hate Anderlecht. If Anderlecht plays in Europe, i always support them and am happy if they win. I have the feeling that we continetals are less fanatic in supporting our club. Maybe i should adjust a litle bit, this being a predominant English forum. If i made mistakes or upset somebody: i'm sorry..this was never meant to be the case. I maybe hurt some people's feelings by saying that IMO club icons Carragher and Gerrard are overrated. Obviously most of you think that is a load of nonsense, but it is my honest opinion and i have a right to think that and stating it in this thread (and this was never meant as a provocation).
I clashed (a litle bit) in the Arsenal thread with a fan who i think is a not so clever fan...there is one in here too. He is a genuine fan, but to be honest he really doesn't have a clue about what he's talking. One starts a discussion with arguments and then he ends it by saying 'if you think A, that proves that you don't know what you are saying"...A really fantastic argument for a good discussion.

I'm quite adamant if i say that we as neutrals have less clouded judgement about what is happening in Liverpool. Does Liverpool is in a worse state than last season? I don't have that feeling to be honest. Last season was as catastrophical as this one. Does that makes Benitez a bad manager? Not at all, last season i've said in this thread that Benitez was Liverpool's only star left after Alonse went to Madrid (i might have underestimated Torres). But people should realize that at a point the chemistry between manager and club is over and that is a good thing. I personally think that Man Utd should have got rid of Ferguson some time ago. He will leave a huge vacuum when he stops and Man Utd will suffer because of that.

Does all this want to say that i claim to know everything better or that i consider myself as the big authority concerning football...not at all...what we are doing is just banter...let's keep it pleasant.

Things aren't going Liverpool's way, this will change under the new ownership and Liverpool will soon again be that big club (but it would be nice if they could win the Premiership for a change, because that's a long time ago and it would be good for football).

Sorry for the long post and i don't want to offend anybody with it.
 
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Re: Liverpool Thread

Good to see that Danny Wilson scored on his Scotland debut last night, I believe he had a very good game and looked very comfortable on the ball :)
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Jumbo_ said:
Ok I'm sorry if I've upset you. I'm just playing devil's advocate most of the time to counter the uber-negativity on Hodgson.
Click to expand...

I'm not going to quote the whole post, but this is in essence why your posts annoy a lot in here;

Why do you feel the need to play devil's advocate in the Liverpool thread? You know we are frustrated and use this thread as a way of venting, yet you seem to think it's so important that we remain objective. Who the f$%k cares?! I ignore the majority of posts in here because they are crap (and I'm talking about the pool fan posts) and feel no need to confront them with it. I get why they are posting like that and they can do whatever. So why do you feel the need to have a balanced view on a ..."PES forum FFS".

It's all very well trying to post to get a more balanced view, but how thick do you need to be before you realise that it isn't appreciated or working. I consider you a balanced and intelligent guy so I know you know that it's a pointless exercise in here (and probably most forum threads) yet you continue to do it. Which gives the impression that it's nothing more then an easy way to wind up people in here.
 
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Re: Liverpool Thread

You can't suggest such a thing, Tik. This comes up every other month and the only thing you'll ever get back as a reply is that Liverpool fans are just being too sensitive etc etc.

Trolls will be trolls, regardless.

The annoying thing is that I like the discussion with the other Liverpool fans in here, so as much as I get pissed off with the clear WUM attempts and can't be arsed with it all, I enjoy the conversation and discussion with the other Liverpool fans (and one or two United fans who are more balanced with their opinion and don't come in with the aim of provoking or "playing devil's advocate").

I'm still going to keep posting in here, even if my views are "bollocks" or otherwise. I admit that I'm biased towards Liverpool, but then what fan isn't biased towards their team? No Liverpool fan has complained about my posts (yet) and so I'll keep posting my "bollocks" until then :)
 
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